Regional boards splitting states.

[Indyroads]

For the most part, Indianapolis-specific discussions have been going in the Great Lakes section.  Perhaps the mods could modify the GL description from "northern Indiana" to "northern and central Indiana". 

I actually think this is a really good Idea since Indy has more in common with Ft wayne, NWI and Chicago. than it does with the cities along the Ohio...

[kkt]

I say leave it as it is, or completely reform the regional definitions.  In the case of the latter, how about using this 38-region regime:

What's the boundary between Cascade and Bitterroot supposed to be?  It looks like it's about 75 miles east of the crest of the Cascades.

[Scott5114]

That was just somebody trying to draw regions that had a lot in common with each other. None of the lines actually follow any sort of geographical feature.

That being said, 38 subforums would be entirely too many to navigate. Even 20 would probably be a few too many. 10 to 15 is probably optimal.

[tdindy88]

As someone from Indianapolis who had always had to consider which board to put what in I took a look at the forums we had and thought about something. Granted, if keeping what we have the best option then that's fine with me. However the problems all seem to stem from the Ohio Valley board. Why not just get rid of that board altogether. Move all of Illinois, Indiana and Ohio into the Midwest-Great Lakes board, send Kentucky to the Southeast board (Kentucky is in the SEC afterall,) West Viriginia to Mid-Atlantic and all of western PA to the Midwest-Great Lakes board. Merely a thought here that's all, I'll leave all decision in the capable hands of those that control this forum.

[Indyroads]

As someone from Indianapolis who had always had to consider which board to put what in I took a look at the forums we had and thought about something. Granted, if keeping what we have the best option then that's fine with me. However the problems all seem to stem from the Ohio Valley board. Why not just get rid of that board altogether. Move all of Illinois, Indiana and Ohio into the Midwest-Great Lakes board, send Kentucky to the Southeast board (Kentucky is in the SEC afterall,) West Viriginia to Mid-Atlantic and all of western PA to the Midwest-Great Lakes board. Merely a thought here that's all, I'll leave all decision in the capable hands of those that control this forum.

That is a possible solution, but then we have kentuckiana being split and same with the Owensboro/Evansville and Henderson being split up as well. I say anything along a line approximately between Columbus IN Vincennes and below should be in the Ohio Board. and Central in the Great lakes. That makes sense too. I am not sure that there isnt a need for the Ohio Valley board. However I agree that splitting northwestern and southwestern PA doesn't make as much sense since they are so close together, and Ohio (except for Cincinnati and right along the Ohio River is mostly autonomous to the great lakes region (including Columbus and Dayton)  As with other people that have posted there really isnt a "clean" way to divide all this up.

[Scott5114]

One possible solution would be to move the section boundaries to state lines, and then when metro areas fall on the boundaries, arbitrarily select one of the boards to use for the entire area. Probably by using wherever the anchor city of that metro area is. So Evansville/Owensboro/Henderson would go into the board Indiana ends up in, Louisville and environs would go to Kentucky, Cincinnati and environs would go to Ohio, etc.

Another option would be to ignore metro areas completely since projects are administered by different DOTs in different states. So if KS and MO ended up in separate boards, KDOT projects would end up in one board and MoDOT projects in the other. Then the only arbitrariness would be what do with things like bridges spanning the river between the states.

[vtk]

And if for some reason a state remains split, try to divide it along DOT district boundaries maybe?

I think the biggest problem with the regions as we have them now, is there are some parts of some states that are claimed by multiple regions.  I'll volunteer to create a clear, authoritative map once we get that cleared up and decide on other changes, if any.

[mrsman]

I think it's easiest to just leave things alone.
If I'm interested in an area that's in the border between two regions, I'll just scan both region's posts.

However, this is a fun topic.  If I were designing this from scratch, I would not divide any states into separate regions.
Here is my hypothetical proposal:

Northeast (NY,NJ,CT,RI,MA,VT,NH,ME)
Mid-Atlantic (PA,DE,MD,DC,VA,WV)
Southeast (NC,SC,GA,FL,TN,AL,MS)
Mid-South (TX,OK,LA,AR)
Midwest (OH,MI,IN,IL,WI,KY)
Central (ND,SD,NE,KS,MN,IA,MO)
Mountain West (MT,WY,UT,CO,AZ,NM)
NW (WA,OR,ID,AK)
Pac SW (HI,CA,NV)

Yes, under my scheme certain metro areas will be in two regions (Philly, St. Louis, and Memphis), however, I'd say in that case any general Philly topics that cover the entire Philly metro (PA,NJ, and DE) should be discussed in Mid-Atlantic since the city of Philadelphia is in PA.  Of course, someone with interest in the entire Philly area should scan both forums.

[bugo]

You must have me mistaken for someone else who was at Ashland. 

The smeller is the feller.

[Duke87]

Since the subject has come up again here...

I dunno, I've always felt that crossing from Maryland into Virginia is momentous enough that it's clearly the border between something and something. It's where you leave the last of the small states. It's where you cross from the Union into the Confederacy. It's where you pass the nation's capital which was clearly placed so as to be at what was the logical center of the country circa 1800.

To me Maryland and Delaware are "northeast" while Virginia is "the south" (I don't really recognize "mid-atlantic" as a thing)

If I had to group states I would do it as follows.

Northeast: ME, NH, VT, MA, RI, CT, NY, NJ, PA, DE, MD
The South: VA, NC, SC, GA, FL, AL, MS, LA, AR, TN
Midwest/Appalachia: OH, IN, IL, MI, WI, MN, KY, WV
The Plains: IA, MO, ND, SD, NE, KS, OK
Rocky Mountain/Pacific Northwest: CO, WY, MT, WA, OR, ID
Southwest: TX, NM, AZ, UT, NV, CA
Outlying US: AK, HI, PR, USVI, Guam, etc.

This avoids splitting states while keeping territories reasonably shaped and semi-consistent with cultural regions... although in some cases the last part is difficult. West Virginia and Kentucky don't categorize well. Neither does Texas. Or California (I'd argue that the Pacific Northwest begins with Marin county).

[froggie]

I dunno, I've always felt that crossing from Maryland into Virginia is momentous enough that it's clearly the border between something and something. It's where you leave the last of the small states. It's where you cross from the Union into the Confederacy. It's where you pass the nation's capital which was clearly placed so as to be at what was the logical center of the country circa 1800.

And all of that went away with DC-area development.  Because of said growth over the last 60 years, Northern Virginia has far more in common with Maryland than with the rest of the state....something most people throughout the Old Dominion recognize.  The "dividing line" between NoVA and RoVA ("Rest of Virginia") is the Rappahannock.

Also, and this is especially true east of I-95,  Maryland, eastern Virginia, and even eastern North Carolina are pretty similar culturally.  There's a noticeably distinct Mid-Atlantic culture that you just don't see up in NYC.

Lastly, it should be noted that Maryland is still south of the Mason-Dixon.

[Thing 342]

I dunno, I've always felt that crossing from Maryland into Virginia is momentous enough that it's clearly the border between something and something. It's where you leave the last of the small states. It's where you cross from the Union into the Confederacy. It's where you pass the nation's capital which was clearly placed so as to be at what was the logical center of the country circa 1800.

And all of that went away with DC-area development.  Because of said growth over the last 60 years, Northern Virginia has far more in common with Maryland than with the rest of the state....something most people throughout the Old Dominion recognize.  The "dividing line" between NoVA and RoVA ("Rest of Virginia") is the Rappahannock.

Also, and this is especially true east of I-95,  Maryland, eastern Virginia, and even eastern North Carolina are pretty similar culturally.  There's a noticeably distinct Mid-Atlantic culture that you just don't see up in NYC.

Lastly, it should be noted that Maryland is still south of the Mason-Dixon.

I would argue that NoVA stay in the Mid-Atlantic board whilst the rest of VA is put into the Southeast board.

[hbelkins]

Kentucky thinks of itself as the southeast, probably because of UK's long membership in the SEC. I think Kentucky has more in common culturally with North Carolina than Illinois, Missouri (and even, to an extent, Indiana and Ohio) even though we share a border with those four states and not with NC.

[Pete from Boston]

Also, and this is especially true east of I-95,  Maryland, eastern Virginia, and even eastern North Carolina are pretty similar culturally.  There's a noticeably distinct Mid-Atlantic culture that you just don't see up in NYC.

Lastly, it should be noted that Maryland is still south of the Mason-Dixon.

You just need to be from New Jersey to understand this.  In the old days it was East Jersey (Northeast) and West Jersey (Middle Atlantic).  Then it was 609 vs. 201, Philly suburbs vs. New York suburbs, Eagles fans vs. people who walk upright.  I remember going to Cape May and resisting the instinct to ask people if they were from Philly as a natural reaction to their speech, because in North Jersey we had no concept of what happened below the Raritan and liked it that way.

One state, two regions.  Delaware looks like Eastern Shore Virginia and has more chickens than hills.  It may not be Southern, but it's no relative of New York or Boston.

I want to see that map redrawn by dialect/speech patterns.  These are better cultural indicators than rivers and such. 

[J N Winkler]

I want to see that map redrawn by dialect/speech patterns.  These are better cultural indicators than rivers and such.

Those of us who live in linguistic contact territory would find ourselves living on top of borders.

[Grzrd]

I would argue that NoVA stay in the Mid-Atlantic board whilst the rest of VA is put into the Southeast board.

The very recent split of Mississippi (northern Mississippi in Mid-South and southern Mississippi in Southeast) has achieved a similar result for Memphis (western Tennessee was already in Mid-South).

Reminds me of the old Memphis Tams ABA basketball team (TAM is the acronym for Tennessee-Arkansas-Mississippi).

[The Nature Boy]

I grew up in eastern North Carolina and I personally feel more of a connection to Virginia and Maryland than to Alabama or Mississippi. Historically, NC and VA (and to a lesser extent TN) were bonded as upper Southern states. Our economies were less dependent on slave labor than our neighbors to the South. North Carolina even has less of a crusty landed upper class than South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama....et. al.

North Carolina and Virginia are more sister states than the Carolinas could ever be. Their policies have often mirrored each other, they share an emphasis on superior higher education and have invested heavily in developing an economy independent of agriculture. They are also bound by the Blue Ridge Mountains. The oldest rivalry in the South is even between the University of North Carolina and University of Virginia.

I could make a solid argument for including NC in the Mid-Atlantic board based on historical cultural ties. My family migrated to North Carolina before the American Revolution so I take seriously the desire to not be lumped in with those to the south.

[Henry]

Here's my own idea for regional board reconfigurations...

New England: CT, ME, MA, NH, RI, VT
Mid-Atlantic: DE, MD, NJ, NY, PA, VA, WV
Southeast: FL, GA, NC, SC
Great Lakes/Ohio Valley: IL, IN, KY, MI, OH, WI
Midwest: IA, KS, MN, MO, NE, ND, SD
Deep South: AL, AR, LA, MS, TN
Southwest: AZ, NM, OK, TX
Mountain: CO, ID, MT, NV, UT, WY
Pacific: AK, CA, HI, OR, WA

[Zeffy]

Also, and this is especially true east of I-95,  Maryland, eastern Virginia, and even eastern North Carolina are pretty similar culturally.  There's a noticeably distinct Mid-Atlantic culture that you just don't see up in NYC.

Lastly, it should be noted that Maryland is still south of the Mason-Dixon.

You just need to be from New Jersey to understand this.  In the old days it was East Jersey (Northeast) and West Jersey (Middle Atlantic).  Then it was 609 vs. 201, Philly suburbs vs. New York suburbs, Eagles fans vs. people who walk upright.  I remember going to Cape May and resisting the instinct to ask people if they were from Philly as a natural reaction to their speech, because in North Jersey we had no concept of what happened below the Raritan and liked it that way.

Central Jersey is the best of both worlds. Many argue there's no Central Jersey, but I believe that's false. I read in article that Hillsborough is the "true" geographic center of New Jersey, so I think everything that's south of I-78, and north of I-195 constitutes as central Jersey. Some people say that Central Jersey is actually just North Jersey, but I heavily disagree with that, because I feel I don't have any New York influence, nor Philadelphia influence. The only Philadelphia influence I have is liking the Eagles, but if I like a Los Angeles team, do I have an LA influence too? I don't think you can call sports team an influence of an area, even if it's close by. Camden and Philadelphia are both totally different places (and I'm not talking about which one is the biggest ghetto) despite being separated by about 5 miles or so.

[Alps]

Also, and this is especially true east of I-95,  Maryland, eastern Virginia, and even eastern North Carolina are pretty similar culturally.  There's a noticeably distinct Mid-Atlantic culture that you just don't see up in NYC.

Lastly, it should be noted that Maryland is still south of the Mason-Dixon.

You just need to be from New Jersey to understand this.  In the old days it was East Jersey (Northeast) and West Jersey (Middle Atlantic).  Then it was 609 vs. 201, Philly suburbs vs. New York suburbs, Eagles fans vs. people who walk upright.  I remember going to Cape May and resisting the instinct to ask people if they were from Philly as a natural reaction to their speech, because in North Jersey we had no concept of what happened below the Raritan and liked it that way.

Central Jersey is the best of both worlds. Many argue there's no Central Jersey, but I believe that's false. I read in article that Hillsborough is the "true" geographic center of New Jersey, so I think everything that's south of I-78, and north of I-195 constitutes as central Jersey. Some people say that Central Jersey is actually just North Jersey, but I heavily disagree with that, because I feel I don't have any New York influence, nor Philadelphia influence. The only Philadelphia influence I have is liking the Eagles, but if I like a Los Angeles team, do I have an LA influence too? I don't think you can call sports team an influence of an area, even if it's close by. Camden and Philadelphia are both totally different places (and I'm not talking about which one is the biggest ghetto) despite being separated by about 5 miles or so.

Central Jersey is a myth by South Jersey dwellers who wish they could be part of the happening North. If you think that's Northward bias, tell me the good restaurants south of the Raritan that aren't fancy dress.

[froggie]

If you think that's Northward bias, tell me the good restaurants south of the Raritan that aren't fancy dress.

Prestige Diner...

(and I'm not even a New Jerseyan)

[jeffandnicole]

The only thing North Jersey has is a lot of traffic.  And a nude beach. LOL

[Pete from Boston]

Also, and this is especially true east of I-95,  Maryland, eastern Virginia, and even eastern North Carolina are pretty similar culturally.  There's a noticeably distinct Mid-Atlantic culture that you just don't see up in NYC.

Lastly, it should be noted that Maryland is still south of the Mason-Dixon.

You just need to be from New Jersey to understand this.  In the old days it was East Jersey (Northeast) and West Jersey (Middle Atlantic).  Then it was 609 vs. 201, Philly suburbs vs. New York suburbs, Eagles fans vs. people who walk upright.  I remember going to Cape May and resisting the instinct to ask people if they were from Philly as a natural reaction to their speech, because in North Jersey we had no concept of what happened below the Raritan and liked it that way.

Central Jersey is the best of both worlds. Many argue there's no Central Jersey, but I believe that's false. I read in article that Hillsborough is the "true" geographic center of New Jersey, so I think everything that's south of I-78, and north of I-195 constitutes as central Jersey. Some people say that Central Jersey is actually just North Jersey, but I heavily disagree with that, because I feel I don't have any New York influence, nor Philadelphia influence. The only Philadelphia influence I have is liking the Eagles, but if I like a Los Angeles team, do I have an LA influence too? I don't think you can call sports team an influence of an area, even if it's close by. Camden and Philadelphia are both totally different places (and I'm not talking about which one is the biggest ghetto) despite being separated by about 5 miles or so.

Central Jersey is a myth by South Jersey dwellers who wish they could be part of the happening North. If you think that's Northward bias, tell me the good restaurants south of the Raritan that aren't fancy dress.

Central Jersey is the North Jersey puppet state set up in the south to accommodate North Jersey expansion needs.

[Alps]

The only thing North Jersey has is a lot of traffic.  And a nude beach. LOL

Nude beach is South Jersey.

[vtk]

Are we sure there's just the one?