AARoads Forum

Today in the Westside Parkway thread someone brought up the oddly widely believed notion that CA 58 between Barstow and Bakersfield is slated to become an extension of I-40.  In reality the corridor hasn't been explored as a potential Interstate since the late 1960s.  Despite the actual knowledge being out there the myth about I-40 being extended still persists.  Is there any other similar phenomena in the road world in other locales?

That Interstate Maintenance (IM) funding is still apportioned.

A widely believed one, mostly outside the road community, is the belief that one mile out of every five miles of Interstate must be perfectly straight to allow planes to land. (Nobody who espouses this belief stops to consider that this would make constructing an Interstate in places like West Virginia borderline impossible.)

Exit 14 on CT 2, a "skipped" sequential exit number in Marlborough, was or was not set aside for a future CT 66 freeway. One of those things we might like to be true, but I haven't found evidence of it.

When mileage-based numbering comes in (a good thing overall), the handful of "missing" exit numbers and their suggestion (true or false) of hidden road history will be erased.

People swear US 51 is State St. (the whole thing) but it hasn't been like that it in over 50 years. And google maps also shows this.....

Also, I'm not sure if US 51 used Old Jackson Road, or Old Canton Road.

The exit numbers on I-95 in NJ, approaching the George Washington Bridge, are derived from an extension of the exit numbers on I-80, which once was, or maybe still is, multiplexed to the bridge itself.

The Chicago Skyway is not actually part of I-90.

Yonge Street being the longest street in the world.... an inaccurate statement made by Genius World Records. They confused the (former) Ontario Highway 11 and the street name...

Quote from: kenarmy on August 20, 2021, 10:57:12 PM
Also, I'm not sure if US 51 used Old Jackson Road, or Old Canton Road.

The 1928 state map shows 51 west of the railroad north of Gluckstadt, so it's quite possible it used Old Jackson Rd initially...this changed no later than 1932.  I have seen no indications anywhere that 51 may have used Old Canton Rd.

Quote from: froggie on August 22, 2021, 06:55:36 PM

Quote from: kenarmy on August 20, 2021, 10:57:12 PM
Also, I'm not sure if US 51 used Old Jackson Road, or Old Canton Road.

The 1928 state map shows 51 west of the railroad north of Gluckstadt, so it's quite possible it used Old Jackson Rd initially...this changed no later than 1932.  I have seen no indications anywhere that 51 may have used Old Canton Rd.

Researching this...didn't fnd a definitive answer right off, but I did find that the Mississippi Highway Dept laid out a numbered state route system in 1921 - https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015021031870&view=1up&seq=106&skin=2021&q1=canton

route numbers were 10-53.  No map and I am not familiar enough with all the towns and counties of MS to know if there was a definitive numering scheme or not.

In the following biennial report, they lay out the Federal Aid routes (1-28) - https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015021031870&view=1up&seq=137&skin=2021&q1=canton, then say that isn't enough for a state highway network and lay out routes the state should have (listed as paragraph numbers 30-61)

Then no word on a state route system in several reports after that.

BTW, the 1921 Automobile Blue Book (https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=umn.31951002210689b&view=1up&seq=371&skin=2021&q1=madison) directs travelers north out of Jackson to go via Tougaloo Sta, which is on today's US 51 and therefore was not on Old Canton Rd.  So there is an excellent argument that US 51 never used Old Canton Rd.

However, it might have used Old Town Crossing/Magnolia Rd right along the railroad instead of today's alignment (1905 topo shows a road immediately adjacent to RR from Tougaloo to Madison that seems to track with the 1921 instructions).

Quote from: Scott5114 on August 20, 2021, 10:06:38 PM
A widely believed one, mostly outside the road community, is the belief that one mile out of every five miles of Interstate must be perfectly straight to allow planes to land. (Nobody who espouses this belief stops to consider that this would make constructing an Interstate in places like West Virginia borderline impossible.)

Even when people find examples of a perfectly straight stretch of highway, there's often bridges, signs, trees, or other obstacles in the way.

Quote from: citrus on August 21, 2021, 11:14:20 PM
The Chicago Skyway is not actually part of I-90.

Would that be the case with the US routes "through" Yellowstone too? Asking it because I saw some posts here stating that US 20 is discontinuous because of Yellowstone.

Quote from: SkyPesos on August 22, 2021, 10:54:53 PM

Quote from: citrus on August 21, 2021, 11:14:20 PM
The Chicago Skyway is not actually part of I-90.

Would that be the case with the US routes "through" Yellowstone too? Asking it because I saw some posts here stating that US 20 is discontinuous because of Yellowstone.

It is along with US 191, US 89 and US 287.

Quote from: Mapmikey on August 22, 2021, 08:54:49 PM

Quote from: froggie on August 22, 2021, 06:55:36 PM

Quote from: kenarmy on August 20, 2021, 10:57:12 PM
Also, I'm not sure if US 51 used Old Jackson Road, or Old Canton Road.

The 1928 state map shows 51 west of the railroad north of Gluckstadt, so it's quite possible it used Old Jackson Rd initially...this changed no later than 1932.  I have seen no indications anywhere that 51 may have used Old Canton Rd.

Researching this...didn't fnd a definitive answer right off, but I did find that the Mississippi Highway Dept laid out a numbered state route system in 1921 - https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015021031870&view=1up&seq=106&skin=2021&q1=canton

route numbers were 10-53.  No map and I am not familiar enough with all the towns and counties of MS to know if there was a definitive numering scheme or not.

In the following biennial report, they lay out the Federal Aid routes (1-28) - https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015021031870&view=1up&seq=137&skin=2021&q1=canton, then say that isn't enough for a state highway network and lay out routes the state should have (listed as paragraph numbers 30-61)

Then no word on a state route system in several reports after that.

BTW, the 1921 Automobile Blue Book (https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=umn.31951002210689b&view=1up&seq=371&skin=2021&q1=madison) directs travelers north out of Jackson to go via Tougaloo Sta, which is on today's US 51 and therefore was not on Old Canton Rd.  So there is an excellent argument that US 51 never used Old Canton Rd.

However, it might have used Old Town Crossing/Magnolia Rd right along the railroad instead of today's alignment (1905 topo shows a road immediately adjacent to RR from Tougaloo to Madison that seems to track with the 1921 instructions).

Due to its proximity, how it aligns with Old Jackson Road, and the naming, it would seem obvious US 51 used it. Thanks for clearing that up.

*side note*: US 72 and US 78 are swapped and in the wrong position in the state map.

That the gap in US-2 was ever or would ever be signed through Canada.

Similar to CA 58 as I-40 in the op, I-73 in Ohio and Michigan, and I-74 east of I-75 in Ohio. Pretty sure the last time this was considered for both states was in the 90s. ODOT is doing upgrades on OH 32 between I-275 and Batavia, and a study regarding US 23 between I-270 and Waldo, but I highly doubt they have anything to do with I-74 and I-73 respectively.

^ I-73 and I-74 were real proposals... I-40 really wasn't, at least to the extent I-73/74 got.

The Golden Gate Bridge is part of US 101.

The Arroyo Seco Parkway was the first freeway in the US.

Quote from: Occidental Tourist on August 24, 2021, 11:10:33 AM
The Golden Gate Bridge is part of US 101.

The Arroyo Seco Parkway was the first freeway in the US.

It's not US 101??? I probably should know that as a roadgeek but wow.

^ I just learned this too. But yes, apparently, according to state law, US-101 does not legally cross the bridge.

Quote Under the California Streets and Highways Code § 401, the Golden Gate Bridge is legally not part of US 101. The portion of US 101 starting from Los Angeles ends at "the approach to the Golden Gate Bridge" and then resumes at "a point in Marin County opposite San Francisco" to the Oregon state line. The bridge itself is maintained by the Golden Gate Bridge, Highway and Transportation District instead of Caltrans.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Route_101_in_California

I'd Ankrom a shield on the bridge.

Quote from: sprjus4 on August 24, 2021, 11:44:23 AM
^ I just learned this too. But yes, apparently, according to state law, US-101 does not legally cross the bridge.

Quote Under the California Streets and Highways Code § 401, the Golden Gate Bridge is legally not part of US 101. The portion of US 101 starting from Los Angeles ends at "the approach to the Golden Gate Bridge" and then resumes at "a point in Marin County opposite San Francisco" to the Oregon state line. The bridge itself is maintained by the Golden Gate Bridge, Highway and Transportation District instead of Caltrans.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Route_101_in_California

Yes, the legislative description of 101 and 1 do not include the Golden Gate Bridge since it is not a state maintained structure.  I believe the AASHTO has the Golden Gate Bridge in it's Route definition of US 101 (easily verified on the AASHO database I suspect) which would mean it is not a gap in the highway.  CA 1 has signage directing traffic towards the Golden Gate Bridge and even some multiplexed shields with US 101 on both sides of the structure.

Quote from: Rothman on August 24, 2021, 11:53:00 AM
I'd Ankrom a shield on the bridge.

Eh, it would probably just get stolen or vandalized, not unlike the End US 1 shield in Key West.

By the year 2050, I'm pretty sure California will just have a few signed Interstates and some leftover bits of Pacific Coast Highway for tourism purposes. Everything else will go back to local control. [/'chasm]

Quote from: formulanone on August 24, 2021, 11:59:42 AM

Quote from: Rothman on August 24, 2021, 11:53:00 AM
I'd Ankrom a shield on the bridge.

By the year 2050, I'm pretty sure California will just have a few signed Interstates and some leftover bits of Pacific Coast Highway for tourism purposes. Everything else will go back to local control. [/'chasm]

That's probably incredibly unlikely.  The CTC mainly is only interested in getting rid of urban surface mileage.  The surface routes in mountainous areas and deserts almost never come up for relinquishment.  In particular a lot of high elevation roadways require Caltrans maintenance otherwise they wouldn't be able to stay open during snow storms.  Also, the local authorities have to accept CTC relinquishment agrees and can't be forced by the state.  Given the state is pushing so highly I doubt many county governments are going to be thrilled about the prospect of maintaining expensive facilities with no clear access to future funding that will likely not come from current revenue streams. 

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 24, 2021, 11:55:30 AM

Quote from: sprjus4 on August 24, 2021, 11:44:23 AM
^ I just learned this too. But yes, apparently, according to state law, US-101 does not legally cross the bridge.

Quote Under the California Streets and Highways Code § 401, the Golden Gate Bridge is legally not part of US 101. The portion of US 101 starting from Los Angeles ends at "the approach to the Golden Gate Bridge" and then resumes at "a point in Marin County opposite San Francisco" to the Oregon state line. The bridge itself is maintained by the Golden Gate Bridge, Highway and Transportation District instead of Caltrans.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Route_101_in_California

Yes, the legislative description of 101 and 1 do not include the Golden Gate Bridge since it is not a state maintained structure.  I believe the AASHTO has the Golden Gate Bridge in it's Route definition of US 101 (easily verified on the AASHO database I suspect) which would mean it is not a gap in the highway.  CA 1 has signage directing traffic towards the Golden Gate Bridge and even some multiplexed shields with US 101 on both sides of the structure.

Yeah, I was wondering if AASHTO had a definition.  I'd consider that as overriding as CA's definition seems to just determine maintenance of the facility.

Quote from: kurumi on August 20, 2021, 10:50:02 PM
Exit 14 on CT 2, a "skipped" sequential exit number in Marlborough, was or was not set aside for a future CT 66 freeway. One of those things we might like to be true, but I haven't found evidence of it.

When mileage-based numbering comes in (a good thing overall), the handful of "missing" exit numbers and their suggestion (true or false) of hidden road history will be erased.

Wasn't there also a number set aside for a CT 83 freeway?

Quote from: Rothman on August 24, 2021, 12:19:37 PM

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 24, 2021, 11:55:30 AM

Quote from: sprjus4 on August 24, 2021, 11:44:23 AM
^ I just learned this too. But yes, apparently, according to state law, US-101 does not legally cross the bridge.

Quote Under the California Streets and Highways Code § 401, the Golden Gate Bridge is legally not part of US 101. The portion of US 101 starting from Los Angeles ends at "the approach to the Golden Gate Bridge" and then resumes at "a point in Marin County opposite San Francisco" to the Oregon state line. The bridge itself is maintained by the Golden Gate Bridge, Highway and Transportation District instead of Caltrans.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Route_101_in_California

Yes, the legislative description of 101 and 1 do not include the Golden Gate Bridge since it is not a state maintained structure.  I believe the AASHTO has the Golden Gate Bridge in it's Route definition of US 101 (easily verified on the AASHO database I suspect) which would mean it is not a gap in the highway.  CA 1 has signage directing traffic towards the Golden Gate Bridge and even some multiplexed shields with US 101 on both sides of the structure.

Yeah, I was wondering if AASHTO had a definition.  I'd consider that as overriding as CA's definition seems to just determine maintenance of the facility.

I also take the Legislative Route Descriptions with a grain of salt.  Those just exist to show what Caltrans actually maintains and doesn't fully reflect what is field signed nor what the AASHTO has in their route definition.  As an example; recent phenomenon of State Highways being synonymous with state maintenance in California is not historically a thing.  Several current CTC relinquishment agreements even call for State Highways to continue to be signed by local authorities (whether or not this happens is another story).  The Division of Highways nor the state couldn't even maintain highway mileage in cities until 1933 which greatly affected early US Routes.  I suspect the answer pertaining to the Golden Gate Bridge lies in 1930s documents in the AASHO database given California was so diligent back then in seeking approval for US Route realignments. 

Quote from: Scott5114 on August 20, 2021, 10:06:38 PM
A widely believed one, mostly outside the road community, is the belief that one mile out of every five miles of Interstate must be perfectly straight to allow planes to land. (Nobody who espouses this belief stops to consider that this would make constructing an Interstate in places like West Virginia borderline impossible.)

Are these the Mandela Effect or an Urban Legend gone way out of control?  Legitimately asking.  Are they the same thing?

I mean the Mandela Effect is basically everyone having a memory that is off what actually happened because the retelling of the story, albeit wrong, becomes more popular than the actual event.  The same can be said about an Urban Legend. 

Makes me think.....

One I've found that's Colorado-related.  A lot of people think Pike's Peak is the highest point in Colorado, if not the U.S.

Chris

Quote from: jayhawkco on August 24, 2021, 12:36:43 PM
One I've found that's Colorado-related.  A lot of people think Pike's Peak is the highest point in Colorado, if not the U.S.

Chris

Still a tougher road than CO 5 up to Mount Evans, even before it was paved.  Similarly people seem to thing the Tioga Road is the highest in California when the paved Horseshoe Meadows Road (old CA 190) and Rock Creek Road surpass it.  White Mountain Road blows them all out of the water but isn't paved nor normally public accessible as a road to the summit.  I would attribute stuff like to people just not searching into a topic very deeply.

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 24, 2021, 12:43:15 PM

Quote from: jayhawkco on August 24, 2021, 12:36:43 PM
One I've found that's Colorado-related.  A lot of people think Pike's Peak is the highest point in Colorado, if not the U.S.

Chris

Still a tougher road than CO 5 up to Mount Evans, even before it was paved.  Similarly people seem to thing the Tioga Road is the highest in California when the paved Horseshoe Meadows Road (old CA 190) and Rock Creek Road surpass it.  White Mountain Road blows them all out of the water but isn't paved nor normally public accessible as a road to the summit.  I would attribute stuff like to people just not searching into a topic very deeply.

Never driven the Pikes Peak Road; only climbed the mountain on foot.

Chris

Quote from: jayhawkco on August 24, 2021, 12:48:28 PM

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 24, 2021, 12:43:15 PM

Quote from: jayhawkco on August 24, 2021, 12:36:43 PM
One I've found that's Colorado-related.  A lot of people think Pike's Peak is the highest point in Colorado, if not the U.S.

Chris

Still a tougher road than CO 5 up to Mount Evans, even before it was paved.  Similarly people seem to thing the Tioga Road is the highest in California when the paved Horseshoe Meadows Road (old CA 190) and Rock Creek Road surpass it.  White Mountain Road blows them all out of the water but isn't paved nor normally public accessible as a road to the summit.  I would attribute stuff like to people just not searching into a topic very deeply.

Never driven the Pikes Peak Road; only climbed the mountain on foot.

Chris

I did Pikes twice; when it was dirt and when it was paved.  I thought it was easier when it was dirt given that it chased a lot of tourists away and you didn't pick up speed on the descent as fast.  Evans is more of a gradual climb than Pikes and starts out at a way higher elevation.  Neither is particularly difficult for a skilled driver who knows who to manage their braking and knows how to shift.  I've driven numerous paved roads which were way more difficult than Pikes and Evans.

Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on August 24, 2021, 12:28:39 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on August 20, 2021, 10:06:38 PM
A widely believed one, mostly outside the road community, is the belief that one mile out of every five miles of Interstate must be perfectly straight to allow planes to land. (Nobody who espouses this belief stops to consider that this would make constructing an Interstate in places like West Virginia borderline impossible.)

Are these the Mandela Effect or an Urban Legend gone way out of control?  Legitimately asking.  Are they the same thing?

I mean the Mandela Effect is basically everyone having a memory that is off what actually happened because the retelling of the story, albeit wrong, becomes more popular than the actual event.  The same can be said about an Urban Legend. 

Makes me think.....

It was a proposal at one point, so not entirely an urban legend.  Unfortunately, whoever discovered the proposal didn't understand it was a proposal, and this was something which people ran with, including in the road community (which means they really don't pay attention to the highways they drive to understand how it can't be legit).

Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on August 24, 2021, 12:28:39 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on August 20, 2021, 10:06:38 PM
A widely believed one, mostly outside the road community, is the belief that one mile out of every five miles of Interstate must be perfectly straight to allow planes to land. (Nobody who espouses this belief stops to consider that this would make constructing an Interstate in places like West Virginia borderline impossible.)

Are these the Mandela Effect or an Urban Legend gone way out of control?  Legitimately asking.  Are they the same thing?

I mean the Mandela Effect is basically everyone having a memory that is off what actually happened because the retelling of the story, albeit wrong, becomes more popular than the actual event.  The same can be said about an Urban Legend. 

Makes me think.....

According to the creator of the concept "Mandela Efffect", it's how an individual latches onto a distorted version of reality (https://mandelaeffect.com/). It seems to now be caught up with misspellings of product names, a bunch of who-gives-a-crap for everyone other than marketers.

True to form, the concept has been a little distorted; sometimes we just logically fill in the potholes of our knowledge, other times, we accept information that's slightly incorrect (spelling of things), outdated (technological/archaeological advancement), distorted by your circles (if your friends and family believe something you tend to accept it), artistic license (Hollywood and TV distort perception and facts), or sometimes even patent nonsense (info you probably picked up when you were a child or very new to a subject).

That a handful of people believe something that isn't correct isn't really the Mandela Effect; it's just wrong information because of the small sample size. I think most of these are not really Mandela Effect (I'm not big on the idea, frankly).

The Interstate Highway must be straight every five miles...blah-blah-blah is more of an urban legend, probably the best known and most specific to this hobby. But many others listed here are just specific bits or trivial bits of information outside of this hobby.

Interstate Highway funding is misunderstood because...well, who was explaining that to the masses in the first place? Anyone outside of DOT circles? So there's going to be a major disconnect between the public at large and the typical motorist. After all, the typical assumption is that any public good or service comes from The Government, and that's all need to worry about until you need to complain about a pothole. Few are going to dig deep and figure that one out on their own.

Whether the Golden Gate Bridge isn't part of US 101 isn't really a mysterious Mandela Effect; example because there's dozens of signs and thousands of printed maps saying so. But nothing stating otherwise, at least not in a straightforward and easily-digestible way. So it's not a conspiracy, just a matter of convenience. (Still an interesting fact; one of those I'd forgotten about.)

Quote from: formulanone on August 24, 2021, 05:33:30 PM

Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on August 24, 2021, 12:28:39 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on August 20, 2021, 10:06:38 PM
A widely believed one, mostly outside the road community, is the belief that one mile out of every five miles of Interstate must be perfectly straight to allow planes to land. (Nobody who espouses this belief stops to consider that this would make constructing an Interstate in places like West Virginia borderline impossible.)

Are these the Mandela Effect or an Urban Legend gone way out of control?  Legitimately asking.  Are they the same thing?

I mean the Mandela Effect is basically everyone having a memory that is off what actually happened because the retelling of the story, albeit wrong, becomes more popular than the actual event.  The same can be said about an Urban Legend. 

Makes me think.....

According to the creator of the concept "Mandela Efffect", it's how an individual latches onto a distorted version of reality (https://mandelaeffect.com/). It seems to now be caught up with misspellings of product names, a bunch of who-gives-a-crap for everyone other than marketers.

True to form, the concept has been a little distorted; sometimes we just logically fill in the potholes of our knowledge, other times, we accept information that's slightly incorrect (spelling of things), outdated (technological/archaeological advancement), distorted by your circles (if your friends and family believe something you tend to accept it), artistic license (Hollywood and TV distort perception and facts), or sometimes even patent nonsense (info you probably picked up when you were a child or very new to a subject).

That a handful of people believe something that isn't correct isn't really the Mandela Effect; it's just wrong information because of the small sample size. I think most of these are not really Mandela Effect (I'm not big on the idea, frankly).

The Interstate Highway must be straight every five miles...blah-blah-blah is more of an urban legend, probably the best known and most specific to this hobby. But many others listed here are just specific bits or trivial bits of information outside of this hobby.

Interstate Highway funding is misunderstood because...well, who was explaining that to the masses in the first place? Anyone outside of DOT circles? So there's going to be a major disconnect between the public at large and the typical motorist. After all, the typical assumption is that any public good or service comes from The Government, and that's all need to worry about until you need to complain about a pothole. Few are going to dig deep and figure that one out on their own.

Whether the Golden Gate Bridge isn't part of US 101 isn't really a mysterious Mandela Effect; example because there's dozens of signs and thousands of printed maps saying so. But nothing stating otherwise, at least not in a straightforward and easily-digestible way. So it's not a conspiracy, just a matter of convenience. (Still an interesting fact; one of those I'd forgotten about.)

I forgot about that until you brought it up, some people seriously think the Mandela Effect is a conspiracy, that we are in a simulation.  They think it was one way, then changed.  They don't look at the most obvious reason, that you remembered it wrong, or the information was wrong to begin with, or your mind plays tricks on you so you will think you were always doing the right thing (I wasn't robing the register, I was just asking the clerk for directions with all the money from the till in my hand and a gun pointed at his head).  It's how even the most guilty person in the world convinces themselves they didn't do it, because your brain believes, not what it wants to believe, but what you allow it to believe. 

To me that's very simple, but to some people they think their memories are gospel. 

I take it you don't remember growing up in the Bernstein Bears universe only to find one day that you somehow crossed over to the Berenstain Bears universe?

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 24, 2021, 05:48:37 PM
I take it you don't remember growing up in the Bernstein Bears universe only to find one day that you somehow crossed over to the Berenstain Bears universe?

Thanks for reminding me if that movie. I regret ever watching that movie. Pardon me while I have another existential crisis...

Quote from: MCRoads on August 24, 2021, 06:52:39 PM

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 24, 2021, 05:48:37 PM
I take it you don't remember growing up in the Bernstein Bears universe only to find one day that you somehow crossed over to the Berenstain Bears universe?

Thanks for reminding me if that movie. I regret ever watching that movie. Pardon me while I have another existential crisis...

Wait, there was a movie?...I don't remember that.  More proof of the multiverse?

Quote from: SkyPesos on August 22, 2021, 10:54:53 PM

Quote from: citrus on August 21, 2021, 11:14:20 PM
The Chicago Skyway is not actually part of I-90.

Would that be the case with the US routes "through" Yellowstone too? Asking it because I saw some posts here stating that US 20 is discontinuous because of Yellowstone.

Yes, as generally the NPS maintains highways through national parks. In California, you've got CA-89 which is a continuous route, but technically does not exist through Lassen National Park. If there is signage, it's just for navigational aid. Same with CA-120 through Yosemite. What's interesting is routes like CA-198, CA-41, and CA-140 are never shown on maps to extend through the national parks, even though they do provide through connections to other routes. This is likely because the routes otherwise do not exit the national park boundaries. So US-20 follows the same logic: it's technically two non-contiguous routes, but generally assumed to be one for navigational aid.

Quote from: Quillz on September 11, 2021, 01:53:39 AM

Quote from: SkyPesos on August 22, 2021, 10:54:53 PM

Quote from: citrus on August 21, 2021, 11:14:20 PM
The Chicago Skyway is not actually part of I-90.

Would that be the case with the US routes "through" Yellowstone too? Asking it because I saw some posts here stating that US 20 is discontinuous because of Yellowstone.

Yes, as generally the NPS maintains highways through national parks. In California, you've got CA-89 which is a continuous route, but technically does not exist through Lassen National Park. If there is signage, it's just for navigational aid. Same with CA-120 through Yosemite. What's interesting is routes like CA-198, CA-41, and CA-140 are never shown on maps to extend through the national parks, even though they do provide through connections to other routes. This is likely because the routes otherwise do not exit the national park boundaries. So US-20 follows the same logic: it's technically two non-contiguous routes, but generally assumed to be one for navigational aid.

CA 140 is signed though in Yosemite from the junction of the Big Oak Flat Road and El Portal Road west to the Park Boundary.  I suspect in the past it was signed all the way to CA 120 through the park before the new Tioga Pass Road was built.  CA 89 once had through signage in Lassen but it now disappears at the park boundaries.

I-80 supposed to go to New York City and terminate at the east end of the George Washington Bridge.
Note technically the east end of I-80 is in Teaneck, NJ.

US 66 terminated at or near the Santa Monica Pier -- a myth perpetuated by the pier operators.  US 66 followed Santa Monica Blvd. west to Lincoln Blvd., then turned south several blocks on Lincoln to terminate (originally) at Alternate US 101 at the corner of Lincoln and Olympic Blvds.  Pre-Santa Monica Freeway/I-10, SB Alternate 101 continued southward on Lincoln, while NB Alternate 101 turned west on Olympic, which eventually accessed the McClure Tunnel and emerged as PCH.  Olympic Blvd. east of the intersection was originally SSR 6, but changed to SSR 26 in 1937 when US 6 was designated within CA. 

US-40 ended in Vallejo, CA prior to the Carquinez bridge.
Note in reality US-40 prior to being designated to go to Vallejo went from Fairfield to Benicia and to reach Martinez US-40 had to be a boat route prior to being resigned as CA-21 and I-680.

There are examples even on this side of the pond. A well known one is that of A-129, widely believed to go East of Sariñena, and it appears as such in many maps, including Google Maps. However and as can be seen on this interactive map (https://gob-aragon.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=814896928ca6410e9a02e2ccf5eecfca), A-129 actually ends at A-131 in Sariñena (on some one way streets, going East one only can reach as far as the A-230 junction; OpenStreetMap shows an alternate and at least now reflects the reality). The background map is one of those maps indicating A-129 continues beyond, but it isn't overlaid by an orange line, meaning it isn't actually part of the route. As a result there has been a war between the community and the municipalities along the way, the latter wanted the road reconstructed but the former said it was up to the villages to do so. In the end the province of Huesca has stepped up and is currently repairing the road.

Quote from: Scott5114 on August 20, 2021, 10:06:38 PM
A widely believed one, mostly outside the road community, is the belief that one mile out of every five miles of Interstate must be perfectly straight to allow planes to land. (Nobody who espouses this belief stops to consider that this would make constructing an Interstate in places like West Virginia borderline impossible.)

I am a firm believer though that this was rooted in some fact, just like a game of telephone screws with things it got garbled in translation.
Such a requirement was obviously not stated in terms like x miles out of 10 or whatever, but likely showed up as a decision to make straight sections of road where possible, and that may have been disguised as an engineering guideline.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on August 22, 2021, 10:35:32 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on August 20, 2021, 10:06:38 PM
A widely believed one, mostly outside the road community, is the belief that one mile out of every five miles of Interstate must be perfectly straight to allow planes to land. (Nobody who espouses this belief stops to consider that this would make constructing an Interstate in places like West Virginia borderline impossible.)

Even when people find examples of a perfectly straight stretch of highway, there's often bridges, signs, trees, or other obstacles in the way.

Many of those obstacles could be removed quickly if there was a desire to setup runways however.

Quote from: jayhawkco on August 24, 2021, 12:36:43 PM
One I've found that's Colorado-related.  A lot of people think Pike's Peak is the highest point in Colorado, if not the U.S.

Chris

As a high-pointer I know it is not the highest, and frankly that is a good thing as Mt. Elbert is easier to climb, but I can understand the confusion vs. Pike's Peak.

Thinking it is the highest in the US vs. Mount McKinley however is an indictment of our education system.

Since no one has mentioned this one yet.

People think that I-70 actually goes to Baltimore. :bigass:

:popcorn:

Quote from: HighwayStar on September 15, 2021, 05:15:45 PM
Thinking it is the highest in the US vs. Mount McKinley however is an indictment of our education system.

Thinking it's "Mount McKinley" rather than "Denali" (original name, restored as the official name) is a lesser indictment.

Quote from: HighwayStar on September 15, 2021, 05:17:07 PM
People think that I-70 actually goes to Baltimore.

Ends maybe about 0.1 mile west of Baltimore city limits. Close enough.

Quote from: oscar on September 15, 2021, 05:58:24 PM

Quote from: HighwayStar on September 15, 2021, 05:15:45 PM
Thinking it is the highest in the US vs. Mount McKinley however is an indictment of our education system.

Thinking it's "Mount McKinley" rather than "Denali" (original name, restored as the official name) is a lesser indictment.

Quote from: HighwayStar on September 15, 2021, 05:17:07 PM
People think that I-70 actually goes to Baltimore.

Ends maybe about 0.1 mile west of Baltimore city limits. Close enough.

McKinley is the proper name, that was the original name as recognized by President Wilson. I never call it Denali because it never should have been re-named.

City Limits are irrelevant, it never actually goes into town.

Quote from: HighwayStar on September 15, 2021, 06:04:03 PM

Quote from: oscar on September 15, 2021, 05:58:24 PM

Quote from: HighwayStar on September 15, 2021, 05:15:45 PM
Thinking it is the highest in the US vs. Mount McKinley however is an indictment of our education system.

Thinking it's "Mount McKinley" rather than "Denali" (original name, restored as the official name) is a lesser indictment.

Quote from: HighwayStar on September 15, 2021, 05:17:07 PM
People think that I-70 actually goes to Baltimore.

Ends maybe about 0.1 mile west of Baltimore city limits. Close enough.

McKinley is the proper name, that was the original name as recognized by President Wilson. I never call it Denali because it never should have been re-named.

It was called Denali before Wilson named it.

Quote from: 1 on September 15, 2021, 06:08:56 PM

Quote from: HighwayStar on September 15, 2021, 06:04:03 PM

Quote from: oscar on September 15, 2021, 05:58:24 PM

Quote from: HighwayStar on September 15, 2021, 05:15:45 PM
Thinking it is the highest in the US vs. Mount McKinley however is an indictment of our education system.

Thinking it's "Mount McKinley" rather than "Denali" (original name, restored as the official name) is a lesser indictment.

Quote from: HighwayStar on September 15, 2021, 05:17:07 PM
People think that I-70 actually goes to Baltimore.

Ends maybe about 0.1 mile west of Baltimore city limits. Close enough.

McKinley is the proper name, that was the original name as recognized by President Wilson. I never call it Denali because it never should have been re-named.

It was called Denali before Wilson named it.

No it was actually called McKinley before that, Wilson was the one to recognize it as the first official name of the Mountain. And naming it after a deceased president is more fitting anyway, Denali has no meaning whatsoever.

I don't think anyone who thinks this is an acceptable way to wear a tie should be allowed to have a mountain named after them.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f1/McKinley_boy.png)

Quote from: Scott5114 on September 15, 2021, 06:15:51 PM
I don't think anyone who thinks this is an acceptable way to wear a tie should be allowed to have a mountain named after them.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f1/McKinley_boy.png)

Fashions change over time, but at least its a real name, not something that sounds like Charles Dodgson wrote it.

Nah, it's a fake name. "Mc" means son of. Son of kinley? What's a kinley? It's not in my dictionary. Sounds like made-up bullshit to me.

Quote from: Scott5114 on September 15, 2021, 06:19:31 PM
Nah, it's a fake name. "Mc" means son of. Son of kinley? What's a kinley? It's not in my dictionary. Sounds like made-up bullshit to me.

At least its English.

Quote from: HighwayStar on September 15, 2021, 06:20:19 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on September 15, 2021, 06:19:31 PM
Nah, it's a fake name. "Mc" means son of. Son of kinley? What's a kinley? It's not in my dictionary. Sounds like made-up bullshit to me.

At least its English.

No, it's not. "Mc" is Scottish and Irish.

Quote from: Scott5114 on September 15, 2021, 06:21:18 PM

Quote from: HighwayStar on September 15, 2021, 06:20:19 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on September 15, 2021, 06:19:31 PM
Nah, it's a fake name. "Mc" means son of. Son of kinley? What's a kinley? It's not in my dictionary. Sounds like made-up bullshit to me.

At least its English.

No, it's not. "Mc" is Scottish and Irish.

The language not the nationality. Both countries use English as their language, since they got their ass kicked some time ago...

Quote from: HighwayStar on September 15, 2021, 06:25:48 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on September 15, 2021, 06:21:18 PM

Quote from: HighwayStar on September 15, 2021, 06:20:19 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on September 15, 2021, 06:19:31 PM
Nah, it's a fake name. "Mc" means son of. Son of kinley? What's a kinley? It's not in my dictionary. Sounds like made-up bullshit to me.

At least its English.

No, it's not. "Mc" is Scottish and Irish.

The language not the nationality. Both countries use English as their language, since they got their ass kicked some time ago...

Just like McKinley got his ass kicked by Czolgosz?

Quote from: Scott5114 on September 15, 2021, 06:30:09 PM

Quote from: HighwayStar on September 15, 2021, 06:25:48 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on September 15, 2021, 06:21:18 PM

Quote from: HighwayStar on September 15, 2021, 06:20:19 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on September 15, 2021, 06:19:31 PM
Nah, it's a fake name. "Mc" means son of. Son of kinley? What's a kinley? It's not in my dictionary. Sounds like made-up bullshit to me.

At least its English.

No, it's not. "Mc" is Scottish and Irish.

The language not the nationality. Both countries use English as their language, since they got their ass kicked some time ago...

Just like McKinley got his ass kicked by Czolgosz?

Given that the latter ended up dead and thrown into a coffin of sulfuric acid it would be hard to say he really kicked any ass so much as had his kicked. In any case, I consider McKinley to be the legitimate name of the mountain, and is what I will tag it as when I climb it.

Quote from: HighwayStar on September 15, 2021, 06:39:32 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on September 15, 2021, 06:30:09 PM

Quote from: HighwayStar on September 15, 2021, 06:25:48 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on September 15, 2021, 06:21:18 PM

Quote from: HighwayStar on September 15, 2021, 06:20:19 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on September 15, 2021, 06:19:31 PM
Nah, it's a fake name. "Mc" means son of. Son of kinley? What's a kinley? It's not in my dictionary. Sounds like made-up bullshit to me.

At least its English.

No, it's not. "Mc" is Scottish and Irish.

The language not the nationality. Both countries use English as their language, since they got their ass kicked some time ago...

Just like McKinley got his ass kicked by Czolgosz?

Given that the latter ended up dead and thrown into a coffin of sulfuric acid it would be hard to say he really kicked any ass so much as had his kicked.

Given that he also ended up dead, it would be hard to say McKinley didn't get his ass kicked too...

Quote from: HighwayStar on September 15, 2021, 05:17:07 PM
goes to

This may come as a surprise to you, but even the little words have consistent meanings.

Quote from: HighwayStar on September 15, 2021, 05:10:44 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on August 20, 2021, 10:06:38 PM
A widely believed one, mostly outside the road community, is the belief that one mile out of every five miles of Interstate must be perfectly straight to allow planes to land. (Nobody who espouses this belief stops to consider that this would make constructing an Interstate in places like West Virginia borderline impossible.)

I am a firm believer though that this was rooted in some fact, just like a game of telephone screws with things it got garbled in translation.
Such a requirement was obviously not stated in terms like x miles out of 10 or whatever, but likely showed up as a decision to make straight sections of road where possible, and that may have been disguised as an engineering guideline.

*citation needed*

Just a couple of observations:

*  McKinley (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McKinley_(surname)) is believed to be an anglicization of the Gaelic nickname Mac an Leigh, meaning something like "son of a leech."

*  There is historical precedent for motorways being used as aircraft runways, notably in Germany during World War II.  I think FHWA's highway history pages have (or at any rate used to have) an account of how this led to the received idea that Interstates were required to have one straight mile in every five.  In actuality, very long tangents are considered problematic from an alignment design perspective.

Returning to the topic of this thread:  I've long suspected the received idea that the US highways were built with 50% federal, 50% state funding is a grossly oversimplified account of how cost-sharing evolved over time.

Quote from: HighwayStar on September 15, 2021, 06:10:48 PM

Quote from: 1 on September 15, 2021, 06:08:56 PM

Quote from: HighwayStar on September 15, 2021, 06:04:03 PM

Quote from: oscar on September 15, 2021, 05:58:24 PM

Quote from: HighwayStar on September 15, 2021, 05:15:45 PM
Thinking it is the highest in the US vs. Mount McKinley however is an indictment of our education system.

Thinking it's "Mount McKinley" rather than "Denali" (original name, restored as the official name) is a lesser indictment.

Quote from: HighwayStar on September 15, 2021, 05:17:07 PM
People think that I-70 actually goes to Baltimore.

Ends maybe about 0.1 mile west of Baltimore city limits. Close enough.

McKinley is the proper name, that was the original name as recognized by President Wilson. I never call it Denali because it never should have been re-named.

It was called Denali before Wilson named it.

No it was actually called McKinley before that, Wilson was the one to recognize it as the first official name of the Mountain. And naming it after a deceased president is more fitting anyway, Denali has no meaning whatsoever.

Having dealt with this for over a decade in Minneapolis regarding the name of a prominent lake, what the hell is the deal with trying to suggest the people who lived there for eons before white people showed up never named these things themselves?

The proposed I-895 outside Richmond not being allowed to be an interstate because it's a toll road. And more generally, toll roads not allowed to be interstates anymore.

Quote from: Takumi on September 15, 2021, 08:44:54 PM
The proposed I-895 outside Richmond not being allowed to be an interstate because it's a toll road. And more generally, toll roads not allowed to be interstates anymore.

I thought that was the case with the numbering of the ICC (MD 200) too. There's a perfectly fine number handed on a silver platter at one end of the ICC (I-370), so besides that, I didn't really see why a new number was chosen instead.

Quote from: J N Winkler on September 15, 2021, 08:01:35 PM
Just a couple of observations:

*  McKinley (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McKinley_(surname)) is believed to be an anglicization of the Gaelic nickname Mac an Leigh, meaning something like "son of a leech."

I don't believe this. :D

Quote from: HighwayStar on September 15, 2021, 06:10:48 PM


No it was actually called McKinley before that, Wilson was the one to recognize it as the first official name of the Mountain. And naming it after a deceased president is more fitting anyway, Denali has no meaning whatsoever.

Sir.... Denali roughly means "The Great One" and was named by people that actually... you know.. live by the mountain and use it. How is naming it after a dead white man from Ohio fitting 😭?

Not sure if this is a Mandela effect so much as a misconception, but almost all crash barrels use sand, not water. The only attenuator I know that uses water are the SLED attenuators.

Quote from: kenarmy on September 15, 2021, 09:36:59 PM

Quote from: HighwayStar on September 15, 2021, 06:10:48 PM


No it was actually called McKinley before that, Wilson was the one to recognize it as the first official name of the Mountain. And naming it after a deceased president is more fitting anyway, Denali has no meaning whatsoever.

Sir.... Denali roughly means "The Great One" and was named by people that actually... you know.. live by the mountain and use it. How is naming it after a dead white man from Ohio fitting 😭?

That dead man from Ohio was a PRESIDENT of these United States. "roughly means" in some dead language none of us speak.

Quote from: HighwayStar on September 15, 2021, 10:51:09 PM

Quote from: kenarmy on September 15, 2021, 09:36:59 PM

Quote from: HighwayStar on September 15, 2021, 06:10:48 PM


No it was actually called McKinley before that, Wilson was the one to recognize it as the first official name of the Mountain. And naming it after a deceased president is more fitting anyway, Denali has no meaning whatsoever.

Sir.... Denali roughly means "The Great One" and was named by people that actually... you know.. live by the mountain and use it. How is naming it after a dead white man from Ohio fitting ?

That dead man from Ohio was a PRESIDENT of these United States. "roughly means" in some dead language none of us speak.

Dang dude...yikes.

Quote from: Rothman on September 15, 2021, 10:52:59 PM

Quote from: HighwayStar on September 15, 2021, 10:51:09 PM

Quote from: kenarmy on September 15, 2021, 09:36:59 PM

Quote from: HighwayStar on September 15, 2021, 06:10:48 PM


No it was actually called McKinley before that, Wilson was the one to recognize it as the first official name of the Mountain. And naming it after a deceased president is more fitting anyway, Denali has no meaning whatsoever.

Sir.... Denali roughly means "The Great One" and was named by people that actually... you know.. live by the mountain and use it. How is naming it after a dead white man from Ohio fitting ?

That dead man from Ohio was a PRESIDENT of these United States. "roughly means" in some dead language none of us speak.

Dang dude...yikes.

Its true, naming things after a president, one that was assassinated in office for that matter, makes far more sense than using a term that has no meaning to anyone outside of the barely-populated-enough-to-qualify-as-a-state Alaska.

But I digress.

For another Mandela effect how about I-95 goes through DC  :awesomeface:

Quote from: HighwayStar on September 15, 2021, 10:55:32 PM

Quote from: Rothman on September 15, 2021, 10:52:59 PM

Quote from: HighwayStar on September 15, 2021, 10:51:09 PM

Quote from: kenarmy on September 15, 2021, 09:36:59 PM

Quote from: HighwayStar on September 15, 2021, 06:10:48 PM


No it was actually called McKinley before that, Wilson was the one to recognize it as the first official name of the Mountain. And naming it after a deceased president is more fitting anyway, Denali has no meaning whatsoever.

Sir.... Denali roughly means "The Great One" and was named by people that actually... you know.. live by the mountain and use it. How is naming it after a dead white man from Ohio fitting ?

That dead man from Ohio was a PRESIDENT of these United States. "roughly means" in some dead language none of us speak.

Dang dude...yikes.

Its true, naming things after a president, one that was assassinated in office for that matter, makes far more sense than using a term that has no meaning to anyone outside of the barely-populated-enough-to-qualify-as-a-state Alaska.

No, it actually shows respect for the mountain's history and the people that named it originally.

Quote from: HighwayStar on September 15, 2021, 10:55:32 PM

Quote from: Rothman on September 15, 2021, 10:52:59 PM

Quote from: HighwayStar on September 15, 2021, 10:51:09 PM

Quote from: kenarmy on September 15, 2021, 09:36:59 PM

Quote from: HighwayStar on September 15, 2021, 06:10:48 PM


No it was actually called McKinley before that, Wilson was the one to recognize it as the first official name of the Mountain. And naming it after a deceased president is more fitting anyway, Denali has no meaning whatsoever.

Sir.... Denali roughly means "The Great One" and was named by people that actually... you know.. live by the mountain and use it. How is naming it after a dead white man from Ohio fitting ?

That dead man from Ohio was a PRESIDENT of these United States. "roughly means" in some dead language none of us speak.

Dang dude...yikes.

Its true, naming things after a president, one that was assassinated in office for that matter, makes far more sense than using a term that has no meaning to anyone outside of the barely-populated-enough-to-qualify-as-a-state Alaska.

But I digress.

For another Mandela effect how about I-95 goes through DC  :awesomeface:

It's the way you're dissing natives, their language, and a mountain more than 4,000 miles away from you.. LMAOOOO you thought you ate that up  :-D.

Quote from: kenarmy on September 15, 2021, 11:07:18 PM

Quote from: HighwayStar on September 15, 2021, 10:55:32 PM

Quote from: Rothman on September 15, 2021, 10:52:59 PM

Quote from: HighwayStar on September 15, 2021, 10:51:09 PM

Quote from: kenarmy on September 15, 2021, 09:36:59 PM

Quote from: HighwayStar on September 15, 2021, 06:10:48 PM


No it was actually called McKinley before that, Wilson was the one to recognize it as the first official name of the Mountain. And naming it after a deceased president is more fitting anyway, Denali has no meaning whatsoever.

Sir.... Denali roughly means "The Great One" and was named by people that actually... you know.. live by the mountain and use it. How is naming it after a dead white man from Ohio fitting ?

That dead man from Ohio was a PRESIDENT of these United States. "roughly means" in some dead language none of us speak.

Dang dude...yikes.

Its true, naming things after a president, one that was assassinated in office for that matter, makes far more sense than using a term that has no meaning to anyone outside of the barely-populated-enough-to-qualify-as-a-state Alaska.

But I digress.

For another Mandela effect how about I-95 goes through DC  :awesomeface:

It's the way you're dissing natives, their language, and a mountain more than 4,000 miles away from you.. LMAOOOO you thought you ate that up  :-D.

But moving on chile  :coffee:.

Its an American mountain, we bought it from the Russians. Its mine as much as anyone else's.

Quote from: HighwayStar on September 15, 2021, 11:41:28 PM

Quote from: kenarmy on September 15, 2021, 11:07:18 PM

Quote from: HighwayStar on September 15, 2021, 10:55:32 PM

Quote from: Rothman on September 15, 2021, 10:52:59 PM

Quote from: HighwayStar on September 15, 2021, 10:51:09 PM

Quote from: kenarmy on September 15, 2021, 09:36:59 PM

Quote from: HighwayStar on September 15, 2021, 06:10:48 PM


No it was actually called McKinley before that, Wilson was the one to recognize it as the first official name of the Mountain. And naming it after a deceased president is more fitting anyway, Denali has no meaning whatsoever.

Sir.... Denali roughly means "The Great One" and was named by people that actually... you know.. live by the mountain and use it. How is naming it after a dead white man from Ohio fitting ?

That dead man from Ohio was a PRESIDENT of these United States. "roughly means" in some dead language none of us speak.

Dang dude...yikes.

Its true, naming things after a president, one that was assassinated in office for that matter, makes far more sense than using a term that has no meaning to anyone outside of the barely-populated-enough-to-qualify-as-a-state Alaska.

But I digress.

For another Mandela effect how about I-95 goes through DC  :awesomeface:

It's the way you're dissing natives, their language, and a mountain more than 4,000 miles away from you.. LMAOOOO you thought you ate that up  :-D.

But moving on chile  :coffee:.

Its an American mountain, we bought it from the Russians. Its mine as much as anyone else's.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion and have the right to express it, but not to be relieved of the consequences thereof.

That Bob Dylan's infamous motorcycle accident happened on US 61. It happened in Woodstock, New York, a thousand miles away from it.

That ethanman's I-366 proposal had a speed limit of 85. He actually said 65 for it, but 85 for other things.

I'm finding there is some sort of phenomenon going on where everyone (or at least the general populace) believes US 66 ended at Broadway in 7th Street in Los Angeles when there is close to no evidence it ever did.  I want to say this is somehow inherited into collective memory from the National Old Trails Road which actually did end at 7th/Broadway. 

Another I've found interesting is that a lot of people seem to believe decommissioned US Routes didn't ever exist in their later alignments on what are now Interstate corridors.

I haven't read The Grapes of Wrath in a long time but I seem to recall Steinbeck referred to Tehachapi Pass as part of US 66 instead of US 466?

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 14, 2022, 03:36:05 PMI haven't read The Grapes of Wrath in a long time but I seem to recall Steinbeck referred to Tehachapi Pass as part of US 66 instead of US 466?

It's been a long time since I read Grapes of Wrath too, but I distinctly remember that the Joad family goes through Needles, Daggett (location of the California agricultural inspection station, which they pass through with the grandmother's dead body in the back of the vehicle), and Barstow, all of which were on US 66.  They descend into the Tehachapi valley in Chapter 18, but I don't recall that Steinbeck asserts the route between Barstow and Tehachapi (then US 466, now SR 58) was part of US 66.

Quote from: J N Winkler on February 14, 2022, 04:09:00 PM

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 14, 2022, 03:36:05 PMI haven't read The Grapes of Wrath in a long time but I seem to recall Steinbeck referred to Tehachapi Pass as part of US 66 instead of US 466?

It's been a long time since I read Grapes of Wrath too, but I distinctly remember that the Joad family goes through Needles, Daggett (location of the California agricultural inspection station, which they pass through with the grandmother's dead body in the back of the vehicle), and Barstow, all of which were on US 66.  They descend into the Tehachapi valley in Chapter 18, but I don't recall that Steinbeck asserts the route between Barstow and Tehachapi (then US 466, now SR 58) was part of US 66.

I don't believe it is explicitly stated they have left US 66 though upon reaching Barstow.  The inference I recall finding myself wondering is if the reader would think Tehachapi Pass was US 66 also?

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 14, 2022, 04:13:41 PMI don't believe it is explicitly stated they have left US 66 though upon reaching Barstow.  The inference I recall finding myself wondering is if the reader would think Tehachapi Pass was US 66 also?

I paid fairly close attention to route designations since, by the time I got around to Grapes of Wrath, I knew I was interested in them and other highway-related things (e.g., the police checks at the Arizona border to be sure the Joads were just passing through).  I don't remember either a statement that they turn off US 66 or anything that could be interpreted as promising a turn-by-turn itinerary of their travels in the Central Valley.

Scholars who have studied Grapes of Wrath have said that Steinbeck based much of it on a roadtrip from the Midwest to California along US 66, as well as personal observation of federal relief programs in the Central Valley.  The next step is probably to see if anyone has tried to trace the Joads' route after arrival in California.  I'm sure it's been thought of if it hasn't actually been done.

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 10, 2022, 07:50:09 PM
Another I've found interesting is that a lot of people seem to believe decommissioned US Routes didn't ever exist in their later alignments on what are now Interstate corridors.

What does this mean? That the US Highways actually were designated along the interstate highways that replaced them before being decommissioned?

Quote from: Kulerage on February 15, 2022, 10:44:06 PM

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 10, 2022, 07:50:09 PM
Another I've found interesting is that a lot of people seem to believe decommissioned US Routes didn't ever exist in their later alignments on what are now Interstate corridors.

What does this mean? That the US Highways actually were designated along the interstate highways that replaced them before being decommissioned?

In several instances they were.  Example; US 66 was co-designated over the completed portion of I-40 in California until the former was truncated to US 95 in 1972.  Even longer on the completed portions of I-40 in Arizona:

https://www.gribblenation.org/2021/03/interstate-40-and-h-bomb.html?m=1

So basically there was a transitional phase with the decommissioned/truncated US Routes in several instances.  That being the case if one were to say that they drove I-40 between Barstow and Ludlow they could also claim they drove a US 66 alignment. 

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 15, 2022, 10:49:09 PM

Quote from: Kulerage on February 15, 2022, 10:44:06 PM

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 10, 2022, 07:50:09 PM
Another I've found interesting is that a lot of people seem to believe decommissioned US Routes didn't ever exist in their later alignments on what are now Interstate corridors.

What does this mean? That the US Highways actually were designated along the interstate highways that replaced them before being decommissioned?

In several instances they were.  Example; US 66 was co-designated over the completed portion of I-40 in California until the former was truncated to US 95 in 1972.  Even longer on the completed portions of I-40 in Arizona:

https://www.gribblenation.org/2021/03/interstate-40-and-h-bomb.html?m=1

So basically there was a transitional phase with the decommissioned/truncated US Routes in several instances.  That being the case if one were to say that they drove I-40 between Barstow and Ludlow they could also claim they drove a US 66 alignment.

Okay, gotcha. Your initial wording seemed a little weird and hard to follow to me hehe

CA-60 is technically in a different alignment from US-60.
This is due to the Pomona Freeways formation and I-10 status on the San Bernardino freeway.

Quote from: Occidental Tourist on August 24, 2021, 11:10:33 AM
The Golden Gate Bridge is part of US 101.

The Arroyo Seco Parkway was the first freeway in the US.

Isn't Pennsylvania Turnpike and New York State Parkway noted as some of the first freeways in the United States.

Quote from: bing101 on February 16, 2022, 02:03:05 PM

Quote from: Occidental Tourist on August 24, 2021, 11:10:33 AM
The Golden Gate Bridge is part of US 101.

The Arroyo Seco Parkway was the first freeway in the US.

Isn't Pennsylvania Turnpike and New York State Parkway noted as some of the first freeways in the United States.

FWIW, US 101 on the Golden Gate Bridge is recognized in the AASHTO definition.  Despite not being state maintained the Golden Gate Bridge does appear as Route 101 in the Caltrans Postmile Tool. 

Quote from: bing101 on February 16, 2022, 02:03:05 PM

Quote from: Occidental Tourist on August 24, 2021, 11:10:33 AM
The Golden Gate Bridge is part of US 101.

The Arroyo Seco Parkway was the first freeway in the US.

Isn't Pennsylvania Turnpike and New York State Parkway noted as some of the first freeways in the United States.

The Pennsylvania Turnpike is the first long-distance controlled-access highway in the U.S. The Arroyo Seco Parkway predates it, barely. It broke ground eight months before the Turnpike, and its first segment opened three months before the Turnpike. However, the first Parkway segment that opened was only four miles long, versus 159 miles for the first segment of Turnpike.

Speaking of the the Pennsylvania Turnpike, and pertaining to the Mandela Effect, for all the bitching people do about the Turnpike, ramp length is not only not a valid reason to do so, but it may never have been a valid reason at all.

Quote from: Gnutella on March 30, 2022, 05:35:07 AM
Speaking of the the Pennsylvania Turnpike, and pertaining to the Mandela Effect, for all the bitching people do about the Turnpike, ramp length is not only not a valid reason to do so, but it may never have been a valid reason at all.

A valid reason to do what?  Engage in bitching?

I think many of the examples here are more road geek pedantry than Mandela Effect. E.g., I-70 going to Baltimore and I-95 in Washington. Drivers know the highways take you to the metro areas. They don't care if it enters the actual city limit. They knew they drove the highway to get to the city. It's even more true with the Golden Gate Bridge; that California doesn't consider US 101 on the bridge is irrelevant to those driving from US 101 into SF from Marin County as California signs US 101 just north (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.8758997,-122.5108361,3a,32.5y,137.84h,93.19t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sE4PmheIVH4XlxdWe7Jkrzw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en) and south (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.8042311,-122.4723293,3a,75y,90.43h,79.89t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sGvbH0IyyLYUK3eJqnuAyVg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en) of the bridge.

I don't know how much roadway in the US was built as emergency runway as it wasn't a function of my agency. But there are several sections of highways in Western Europe, especially in the former West Germany, that were built to be used as emergency runways during the Cold War in case of Soviet invasion. The DMA (https://www.nga.mil/defining-moments/Defense_Mapping_Agency.html) Aeronautical department kept records (imagery, length, max weight, etc) on each emergency runway. I found that out during first job there (1989) while waiting for my training as part of a team updating all their aero runway files for six weeks. Tedious in those file folder days, but beats the crap out of juggling two low-paying part-time jobs after college and the beginning of a great career.

I-275 (MI), while signed north of I-96, does not technically exist north of I-96.


Highway 99 in Washington, may or may not be part of SR 99.  In Everett/Lynnwood or near Seattle/Tacoma: Yes.  Vancouver: No.  Anywhere else: No.
International Boulevard, in front of Sea-Tac Airport, and a continuation of the pavement of SR 99, in not in fact part of SR 99.


Regardless of what the locals call is, M-24 in and round Lake Orīon, MI, is not Lapeer Rd.  It is actually either Broadway or Park, depending on the segment.  Outside of Lake Orīon, it is Lapeer Rd.  Which is doubly confusing, given that there is a Lapeer St. in downtown, not connected to M-24.  Also, M-24 never connected to US-24.  US-24 doesn't come close enough, and when it could  have, it was signed as US-10 at that time.

Quote from: paulthemapguy on March 31, 2022, 09:47:52 AM

Quote from: Gnutella on March 30, 2022, 05:35:07 AM
Speaking of the the Pennsylvania Turnpike, and pertaining to the Mandela Effect, for all the bitching people do about the Turnpike, ramp length is not only not a valid reason to do so, but it may never have been a valid reason at all.

A valid reason to do what?  Engage in bitching?

Correct. Ramp lengths have never (https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/candc/factsheets/pennsylvaniaturnpike.pdf) been a problem on the Pennsylvania Turnpike.

Quote from: Federal Highway AdministrationThe turnpike was the first large-scale construction project with consistent design standards, as opposed to previous piecemeal attempts to build roads through different areas. Plans called for a 200-foot right-of-way with two 12-foot lanes of travel provided in each direction with medians, berms, long entrance and exit ramps, banked curves, and separated grade crossings.

And the acceleration and deceleration lanes were lengthened even more in the 1960s and 1970s.

Related to the Mandela Effect
(https://i.imgflip.com/3psj5f.jpg)

Quote from: TEG24601 on March 31, 2022, 03:43:52 PM
Regardless of what the locals call is, M-24 in and round Lake Orīon, MI, is not Lapeer Rd.  It is actually either Broadway or Park, depending on the segment.  Outside of Lake Orīon, it is Lapeer Rd.  Which is doubly confusing, given that there is a Lapeer St. in downtown, not connected to M-24.  Also, M-24 never connected to US-24.  US-24 doesn't come close enough, and when it could  have, it was signed as US-10 at that time.

Incorrect on your last point.  Prior to construction of I-75 in Pontiac, M-24 continued south along Opdyke Road and west along Square Lake Road to terminate at Telegraph Road, which also was US-24's northern terminus.  That's how the M-24 designation for that route came to be; MDOT at the time had the practice of giving state highways the same number as U.S. highways if their termini touched.  (I think you're thinking of M-1 being previously designated as US-10.)