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Author Topic: Ohio  (Read 127558 times)

frankenroad

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #400 on: August 28, 2020, 09:23:48 AM »

Back to the subject of exit numbers on non-interstates in Ohio, one interesting expressway numbering system is Cincinnati's Norwood Lateral (OH 562) which has a sequential numbering system.  US 42/Reading Rd (Exit 2) is located near MM1, while US 22/Montogmery Rd (Exit 3) is located near MM2.

I also have a question regarding this subject.  Does Cincinnati's Ronald Reagan Hwy exit to Blue Rock Rd have an exit number, and if so what is the number? From Colerain Ave eastward the exits are numbered based on the mileage of OH 126 which joins the expressway at Colerain Ave.  West of Colerain, the expressway is simply known as Ronald Reagan Hwy.

I think on the Norwood Lateral, it was convenience and custom, that dictated the sequential numbering.   If MMs were to be taken literally, you would either have Exit 0, Exit 1, and Exit 2; or, since Ohio normally does not use  Exit 0, you'd have Exit 1A, Exit 1B, and Exit 2.   Although I am usually a stickler for these things, I'll give them a pass on the way they numbered it.

As far as RR Hiway, there are no exit numbers west of US-27 (Colerain Ave).  The Blue mile markers in the median jump from, I believe 3.2 to 20.0 when you cross 27 going east, so if Blue Rock were to have an exit number it would probably be 1.
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coldshoulder

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #401 on: August 28, 2020, 03:09:18 PM »

It has Airport Freeway labeled below with three alternatives displayed, with Alternative 3 following the unbuilt alignment along West 65th on the map from 1957. The name is confirmed in an earlier map from 1955. I-71 takes the route of the Airport Freeway through Brooklyn and Linndale, and the Medina Freeway east and north towards downtown.

By 1962, the Airport Freeway was mostly replaced by a rerouted Medina Freeway; the Parma Freeway was then proposed generally along the same alignment as the Medina Freeway to Parma: https://clevelandmemory.contentdm.oclc.org/digital/collection/urbanohio/id/2273

The two studies you have linked are fascinating reading/viewing for us road geeks.  This one below appears to be a slightly different and/or advanced study:


http://www.clevelandmemory.org/freeways/


From the website:

The freeway revolts were a phenomenon that took place across the nation during the 1960ís and 1970ís. The revolts were in response to the many freeway routes that were proposed without due consideration for the neighborhoods that would be demolished, or the people who would be displaced.

In Cleveland, the battle centered around the proposed Clark, Lee, and Heights Freeways. The proposed routes would have partitioned Shaker Heights and Cleveland Heights, costing houses and businesses and affecting a nature preserve, the Shaker Lakes.  The residents of these suburbs banded together, and fought the proposed freeways and the county engineer Albert S. Porter, and Governor James Rhodes to a standstill.

Today, instead of an interchange of two freeways, the Nature Center at Shaker Lakes is used by the residents of both Shaker Heights and Cleveland Heights, to teach environmental education.

We present 17 route location studies, including the proposed routes for the Clark, Lee and Heights freeways that were never built, as well as the original study that started it all in 1955.
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seicer

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #402 on: August 28, 2020, 05:06:25 PM »

You can easily find those proposed stubs everywhere - along I-90, I-71 (to the unbuilt Airport/Parma/Willow freeways), I-490, OH 2, I-480. Many of those stubs have simply been erased over the decades but if you use Historicaerials.com, you can find more of those remnants.

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #403 on: September 02, 2020, 09:33:47 AM »

As far as RR Hiway, there are no exit numbers west of US-27 (Colerain Ave).  The Blue mile markers in the median jump from, I believe 3.2 to 20.0 when you cross 27 going east, so if Blue Rock were to have an exit number it would probably be 1.

It shouldn't have exit numbers because it appears ODOT does not assign numbers to non-numbered highways. The mile markers for most of the Ronald Reagan are for OH-126, which "exits" the Ronald Reagan at Colerain Avenue.
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Buck87

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #404 on: September 08, 2020, 08:47:07 PM »

I see that next year the US 20/OH 601 intersection will be getting a roundabout. This is on the 2 lane portion of US 20 a couple miles east east of where its Norwalk bypass ends.

601/Milan Greenwich Townline Rd has become a popular north/south bypass of Norwalk for US 250 traffic. In fact, NASA's Orion spacecraft took that route last fall while being trucked from Mansfield's airport up to Plum Brook Station for vacuum chamber testing.
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Re: Ohio
« Reply #405 on: September 09, 2020, 01:06:18 AM »

I see that next year the US 20/OH 601 intersection will be getting a roundabout. This is on the 2 lane portion of US 20 a couple miles east east of where its Norwalk bypass ends.

601/Milan Greenwich Townline Rd has become a popular north/south bypass of Norwalk for US 250 traffic. In fact, NASA's Orion spacecraft took that route last fall while being trucked from Mansfield's airport up to Plum Brook Station for vacuum chamber testing.

Plus one of the nation's biggest dragstrips sits at that intersection as well -- Norwalk Raceway Park. 
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Re: Ohio
« Reply #406 on: September 09, 2020, 04:49:31 PM »

I see that next year the US 20/OH 601 intersection will be getting a roundabout. This is on the 2 lane portion of US 20 a couple miles east east of where its Norwalk bypass ends.

601/Milan Greenwich Townline Rd has become a popular north/south bypass of Norwalk for US 250 traffic. In fact, NASA's Orion spacecraft took that route last fall while being trucked from Mansfield's airport up to Plum Brook Station for vacuum chamber testing.

Plus one of the nation's biggest dragstrips sits at that intersection as well -- Norwalk Raceway Park.

I grew up not far from there and commuted daily through that intersection for years. We even lost one of my high school classmates due to an accident there. I don't know that the roundabout will fix things, and with heavy trucks going all four directions through that roundabout, it seems like that will be functionally worse.
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Buck87

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #407 on: September 10, 2020, 10:00:26 AM »


Plus one of the nation's biggest dragstrips sits at that intersection as well -- Norwalk Raceway Park. 


Which is now called Summit Motorsports Park. That's actually at the intersection of OH 18 and OH 601, but a lot of traffic to it uses the 20/601 intersection. There's also an R&L Carriers distribution center across from the dragstrip that generates a lot of truck traffic on 601.


I grew up not far from there and commuted daily through that intersection for years. We even lost one of my high school classmates due to an accident there. I don't know that the roundabout will fix things, and with heavy trucks going all four directions through that roundabout, it seems like that will be functionally worse.

Since you're familiar with the area, I'll mention that the bar on the corner, the Gulf Inn, will be bought by the state an torn down as part of this project. 
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thenetwork

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #408 on: September 10, 2020, 10:33:05 PM »


Plus one of the nation's biggest dragstrips sits at that intersection as well -- Norwalk Raceway Park. 


Which is now called Summit Motorsports Park. That's actually at the intersection of OH 18 and OH 601, but a lot of traffic to it uses the 20/601 intersection. There's also an R&L Carriers distribution center across from the dragstrip that generates a lot of truck traffic on 601.

I don't know why I was thinking OH-18 and not US-20.  Going to or from Norwalk from the east, 90% of the time it was via OH-18 to Medina.  I guess I could see a roundabout make sense there as well. 
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Buck87

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #409 on: September 26, 2020, 08:46:53 AM »

ODOT has plans to widen the last 4 lane segment of I-77 between Cleveland and Akron to 6 lanes. It's a 9.2 mile section between Ghent Rd near Fairlawn and the Ohio Turnpike, and would cost $125M. This article though focuses mainly on those opposed to the idea:

https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2020/09/odots-125-million-plans-to-add-lanes-to-i-77-could-be-better-spent-in-akron-area-could-worsen-storm-runoff-local-officials-say.html
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thenetwork

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #410 on: September 26, 2020, 11:10:14 AM »

ODOT has plans to widen the last 4 lane segment of I-77 between Cleveland and Akron to 6 lanes. It's a 9.2 mile section between Ghent Rd near Fairlawn and the Ohio Turnpike, and would cost $125M. This article though focuses mainly on those opposed to the idea:

https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2020/09/odots-125-million-plans-to-add-lanes-to-i-77-could-be-better-spent-in-akron-area-could-worsen-storm-runoff-local-officials-say.html


I am surprised that it's taking so painfully long to complete the three-laning through there and there is still opposition.  Most of the bridges on that highway stretch have been rebuilt for a future 3rd lane for nearly 20 years, so it's not a secret that it would eventually happen. 

I-77 is a important travel corridor between Cleveland, Akron and Canton, and it always seemed like this stretch (which is quietly co-signed with OH-21) has been treated as if it was only OH-21 using this freeway, just like it's solo stretch between Montrose and Massillon.  And if you've ever driven down the OH-21-only stretch, it's always been treated as the red-headed step-child.
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Bitmapped

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #411 on: September 27, 2020, 10:47:42 AM »

I-77 is a important travel corridor between Cleveland, Akron and Canton, and it always seemed like this stretch (which is quietly co-signed with OH-21) has been treated as if it was only OH-21 using this freeway, just like it's solo stretch between Montrose and Massillon.  And if you've ever driven down the OH-21-only stretch, it's always been treated as the red-headed step-child.

Much of the reason for that is home rule. Municipalities are in charge of state routes, even if they are freeways like SR 21 through Norton. That means you end up with a very subpar experience compared to if ODOT was in control of the road.
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Re: Ohio
« Reply #412 on: November 02, 2020, 10:44:55 AM »

Here's an update from ODOT District 6 regarding the South Side Mega Fix. It looks like the end may finally be in sight.

https://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/OHDOT/bulletins/2a771bd
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Buck87

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #413 on: November 28, 2020, 07:28:07 PM »

On Wednesday I entered I-70 from US 127 heading west toward Indianapolis and noticed a portable VMS that stated the miles and minutes to I-465, which seemed a bit odd. There were at least 2 more of them in Ohio, and then they continued in Indiana, where there was one every 2-5 miles, counting down the miles and minutes to I-465 all the way there (which was convenient.)

The Indiana portion of I-70 was one long ass construction zone, where the work looked to be pretty much done, and had pretty much only included repaving the inside shoulders. I'm guessing traffic was bad enough during the project to warrant to VMS setups to give real time travel info for those going to Indy.

What I'm curious about is:
How far east into Ohio did these VMS boards counting down to I-465 go?
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Re: Ohio
« Reply #414 on: November 28, 2020, 09:08:26 PM »

What I'm curious about is:
How far east into Ohio did these VMS boards counting down to I-465 go?

I assume they would go to just the Ohio state line, I don't think there's much reason for it to head past the line. While the westbound signs gave the time and distance to I-465 the eastbound signs did the same for Ohio.
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Buck87

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #415 on: November 28, 2020, 10:03:07 PM »

I'm asking how far east in Ohio on westbound I-70 can you find a VMS counting down to I-465. The first one I saw was right after I got on I-70 at the US 127 interchange in Ohio, 10 miles from the Indiana border, so I don't know how many if any there were further east of that spot. 

Also, since it clearly seems to be an Indiana project, I'd be interesting to know how the collaboration went with ODOT to put some up in Ohio. Are the ones in Ohio ODOT equipment put up by ODOT? Are they INDOT equipment put up by ODOT? Are they INDOT equipment put up by INDOT?
« Last Edit: November 28, 2020, 10:05:27 PM by Buck87 »
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Bitmapped

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #416 on: November 28, 2020, 11:03:01 PM »

I'm asking how far east in Ohio on westbound I-70 can you find a VMS counting down to I-465. The first one I saw was right after I got on I-70 at the US 127 interchange in Ohio, 10 miles from the Indiana border, so I don't know how many if any there were further east of that spot. 

Also, since it clearly seems to be an Indiana project, I'd be interesting to know how the collaboration went with ODOT to put some up in Ohio. Are the ones in Ohio ODOT equipment put up by ODOT? Are they INDOT equipment put up by ODOT? Are they INDOT equipment put up by INDOT?

If they're related to an INDOT project, I would assume they're put they're by INDOT or its contractor. It's not uncommon to see construction signage installed in other states like that, and in every case I've seen, it's been handled by the contractor or DOT who owns the construction project.
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Ohio
« Reply #417 on: November 29, 2020, 02:48:25 PM »

On Wednesday I entered I-70 from US 127 heading west toward Indianapolis and noticed a portable VMS that stated the miles and minutes to I-465, which seemed a bit odd. There were at least 2 more of them in Ohio, and then they continued in Indiana, where there was one every 2-5 miles, counting down the miles and minutes to I-465 all the way there (which was convenient.)

The Indiana portion of I-70 was one long ass construction zone, where the work looked to be pretty much done, and had pretty much only included repaving the inside shoulders. I'm guessing traffic was bad enough during the project to warrant to VMS setups to give real time travel info for those going to Indy.

What I'm curious about is:
How far east into Ohio did these VMS boards counting down to I-465 go?
I just had to go to Richmond and noticed them. I wasnít aware of your question at the time, so I wasnít paying close attention, but they seemed to be placed every mile  for at least five miles into Ohio. This is very out of character for ODOT so I have to believe itís Indianaís doing, with Ohioís permission.
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Dougtone

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #418 on: November 29, 2020, 07:04:03 PM »

The Harpersfield Covered Bridge is Ohio's third longest covered bridge and is one of 19 covered bridges located within Northeast Ohio's Ashtabula County. OH 534 was routed through the covered bridge until 1962.

https://www.gribblenation.org/2020/11/harpersfield-covered-bridge-ohio.html

Hot Rod Hootenanny

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #419 on: November 30, 2020, 12:14:40 PM »

On Wednesday I entered I-70 from US 127 heading west toward Indianapolis and noticed a portable VMS that stated the miles and minutes to I-465, which seemed a bit odd. There were at least 2 more of them in Ohio, and then they continued in Indiana, where there was one every 2-5 miles, counting down the miles and minutes to I-465 all the way there (which was convenient.)

The Indiana portion of I-70 was one long ass construction zone, where the work looked to be pretty much done, and had pretty much only included repaving the inside shoulders. I'm guessing traffic was bad enough during the project to warrant to VMS setups to give real time travel info for those going to Indy.

What I'm curious about is:
How far east into Ohio did these VMS boards counting down to I-465 go?
I just had to go to Richmond and noticed them. I wasnít aware of your question at the time, so I wasnít paying close attention, but they seemed to be placed every mile  for at least five miles into Ohio. This is very out of character for ODOT so I have to believe itís Indianaís doing, with Ohioís permission.

This summer, IDOT was repaving I-70 from (essentially) the Ohio border to I-465 (east). When I drove out to the EauClare roadmeet in August, those VMSes started (on I-70 WB) around the Lewisburg (Oh) exit. I-70 around Richmond was a mess and I found that it didn't get much better till I reached Greenfield (Ind).
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Hot Rod Hootenanny

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #420 on: November 30, 2020, 12:16:48 PM »

The Harpersfield Covered Bridge is Ohio's third longest covered bridge and is one of 19 covered bridges located within Northeast Ohio's Ashtabula County. OH 534 was routed through the covered bridge until 1962.

https://www.gribblenation.org/2020/11/harpersfield-covered-bridge-ohio.html

Thanks for the link
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Re: Ohio
« Reply #421 on: January 14, 2021, 11:36:19 PM »

I'm pretty new to the state signage conventions, so please don't crucify me for this likely-dumb question:
Around the I-471 area, why is I-275 signed as "To Columbus" as opposed to "To I-71/75N"?  I suppose most through traffic from the 471 area would likely be using it as a 71 bypass as opposed to a 75 bypass, but the way it is currently signed might make first-timers think that it continues all the way to Columbus.  It's one of those little things that has bugged me for years.
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Re: Ohio
« Reply #422 on: January 15, 2021, 12:19:58 AM »

I'm pretty new to the state signage conventions, so please don't crucify me for this likely-dumb question:
Around the I-471 area, why is I-275 signed as "To Columbus" as opposed to "To I-71/75N"?  I suppose most through traffic from the 471 area would likely be using it as a 71 bypass as opposed to a 75 bypass, but the way it is currently signed might make first-timers think that it continues all the way to Columbus.  It's one of those little things that has bugged me for years.

There are a few reasons for this, some of which have been discussed on this forum so I don't expect you to have heard before.

1) Almost a universal stance around here, I-275 is not a good bypass for I-71 or I-75. It goes too far out of the way to be realistically functional for either. Most people traveling thru on 71 or 75 just take it right through downtown. It also is faster to take 471 from 275 than it is to stay on 275 all the way to 71. Now if you're going from 74 to 75, or OH-32 to I-71, then 275 is actually functional.

2) Control cities are aimed at providing a route to a destination. My wording is not the best so maybe this example will clear it up. At the north end of I-459, where it meets I-59, if you are traveling south on I-59 you'll see I-59 signed for Birmingham and I-459 signed for Montgomery and Tuscaloosa. Why? Because those are destinations, and ALDOT wants people going to those destinations to use I-459 over I-59. If you put "TO I-59 SOUTH" people might just take I-59 there because it already is I-59 south. Also, I-59 isn't a destination itself, it is a way to a destination but people aren't looking to find a way to the way to the place they're going, they just need directions to where they want to go. DOTs use control cities to influence travel routes.

3) In the case of I-275, the area of concern is much closer to the southern junction with I-71/75 than the northern junction, which is the one you are referring to (I assume). This can lead to confusion as the junction where the two are multiplexed is the southern one, and the northern ones are both 15+ miles further away and in a different state from where the sign would be. Columbus makes more sense as it is a destination and is less confusing. And again, I-471 is the faster route to I-71 and is shorter distance and time wise compared to 275.

4) The northern junction between I-75 and I-275 uses both route numbers and cities. This is likely because both Columbus and Indianapolis (the two cities on the signs) are both controls at the I-70 junction on the north side of Dayton, maybe to avoid deja vu for the motorist. Also, I-71 and I-74 are relatively close to I-75 at the northern junction, so there is less confusion as to what interchange is being referenced.

I hope I was helpful and clear in my response. I don't usually type this much in a post.
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Re: Ohio
« Reply #423 on: January 15, 2021, 12:33:37 AM »

I'm pretty new to the state signage conventions, so please don't crucify me for this likely-dumb question:
Around the I-471 area, why is I-275 signed as "To Columbus" as opposed to "To I-71/75N"?  I suppose most through traffic from the 471 area would likely be using it as a 71 bypass as opposed to a 75 bypass, but the way it is currently signed might make first-timers think that it continues all the way to Columbus.  It's one of those little things that has bugged me for years.

There are a few reasons for this, some of which have been discussed on this forum so I don't expect you to have heard before.

1) Almost a universal stance around here, I-275 is not a good bypass for I-71 or I-75. It goes too far out of the way to be realistically functional for either. Most people traveling thru on 71 or 75 just take it right through downtown. It also is faster to take 471 from 275 than it is to stay on 275 all the way to 71. Now if you're going from 74 to 75, or OH-32 to I-71, then 275 is actually functional.

2) Control cities are aimed at providing a route to a destination. My wording is not the best so maybe this example will clear it up. At the north end of I-459, where it meets I-59, if you are traveling south on I-59 you'll see I-59 signed for Birmingham and I-459 signed for Montgomery and Tuscaloosa. Why? Because those are destinations, and ALDOT wants people going to those destinations to use I-459 over I-59. If you put "TO I-59 SOUTH" people might just take I-59 there because it already is I-59 south. Also, I-59 isn't a destination itself, it is a way to a destination but people aren't looking to find a way to the way to the place they're going, they just need directions to where they want to go. DOTs use control cities to influence travel routes.

3) In the case of I-275, the area of concern is much closer to the southern junction with I-71/75 than the northern junction, which is the one you are referring to (I assume). This can lead to confusion as the junction where the two are multiplexed is the southern one, and the northern ones are both 15+ miles further away and in a different state from where the sign would be. Columbus makes more sense as it is a destination and is less confusing. And again, I-471 is the faster route to I-71 and is shorter distance and time wise compared to 275.

4) The northern junction between I-75 and I-275 uses both route numbers and cities. This is likely because both Columbus and Indianapolis (the two cities on the signs) are both controls at the I-70 junction on the north side of Dayton, maybe to avoid deja vu for the motorist. Also, I-71 and I-74 are relatively close to I-75 at the northern junction, so there is less confusion as to what interchange is being referenced.

I hope I was helpful and clear in my response. I don't usually type this much in a post.
Slight correction: I-275 is not a good bypass for I-75 at all, but for I-71, there is a niche use as a bypass. I have used the east loop of I-275 when traffic on I-71 gets ugly a couple of times before.

And then for control cities on I-275. In that area you specified (I-275/I-471 interchange), imo they should've just left it blank, like with I-275 East at the I-71/I-75 interchange about 10 miles west. They could use Milford, which is a well-known suburb of Cincinnati to locals, but not so much for out of towners. "Ohio" is another option, since I-275 across the bridge has "Kentucky" as a WB control on a couple of signs, but you can reach Ohio from I-471 at that point too. Issue with Columbus has already been said: I-471 to I-71 is faster than I-275 most of the time. My personal preference is the TO [route number] as controls only, which Ohio does on their section on I-275. For example, on the I-275 interchange at I-71, the controls are "TO I-75" for I-275 West, and "TO OH 32" for I-275 East, with all the route numbers in route shields.
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Re: Ohio
« Reply #424 on: January 15, 2021, 05:27:48 PM »

Most recent guidance by FHWA on destinations for circumferential highways is to simply not have them. For I-275 that would make the most sense anyway.
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Look, over by the restrooms! It's a girl! It's a boy! No, it's Captain Enby!

ÖDo you think they're trying to decide which one to use?

 


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