Massachusetts

Started by hotdogPi, October 12, 2013, 04:50:12 PM

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vdeane

I'm not sure how accurate those maps are, or at least Albany.  I'm pretty sure I-88 was supposed to follow what's now NY 7 between I-87 and Troy, for example.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.


5foot14

Quote from: vdeane on October 30, 2019, 09:46:36 PM
I'm not sure how accurate those maps are, or at least Albany.  I'm pretty sure I-88 was supposed to follow what's now NY 7 between I-87 and Troy, for example.
I can't vouch for the accuracy of other areas but Boston's seems to be fairly accurate, its got all the well known unbuilt highways. The precise routing isn't exact (some routes didn't even have detailed plans laid out, such as the Mid-Circumfrential Highway) but it gives a good idea of the corridor the highway would take.

The only think kinda murky with Boston is the alleged Mystic Valley Expressway...

SectorZ

Quote from: 5foot14 on October 31, 2019, 10:20:08 AM
Quote from: vdeane on October 30, 2019, 09:46:36 PM
I'm not sure how accurate those maps are, or at least Albany.  I'm pretty sure I-88 was supposed to follow what's now NY 7 between I-87 and Troy, for example.
I can't vouch for the accuracy of other areas but Boston's seems to be fairly accurate, its got all the well known unbuilt highways. The precise routing isn't exact (some routes didn't even have detailed plans laid out, such as the Mid-Circumfrential Highway) but it gives a good idea of the corridor the highway would take.

The only think kinda murky with Boston is the alleged Mystic Valley Expressway...

The 213 routing is a little off, too. He has it as an extension of the Lowell Connector. Likelier, it was supposed to start of US 3 near exit 32 in Chelmsford and cross the Merrimack west of the Rourke Bridge.

5foot14

Quote from: SectorZ on October 31, 2019, 11:35:52 AM
Quote from: 5foot14 on October 31, 2019, 10:20:08 AM
Quote from: vdeane on October 30, 2019, 09:46:36 PM
I'm not sure how accurate those maps are, or at least Albany.  I'm pretty sure I-88 was supposed to follow what's now NY 7 between I-87 and Troy, for example.
I can't vouch for the accuracy of other areas but Boston's seems to be fairly accurate, its got all the well known unbuilt highways. The precise routing isn't exact (some routes didn't even have detailed plans laid out, such as the Mid-Circumfrential Highway) but it gives a good idea of the corridor the highway would take.

The only think kinda murky with Boston is the alleged Mystic Valley Expressway...

The 213 routing is a little off, too. He has it as an extension of the Lowell Connector. Likelier, it was supposed to start of US 3 near exit 32 in Chelmsford and cross the Merrimack west of the Rourke Bridge.

Actually both may have been correct at one point or another...
http://www.bostonroads.com/history/1968-map_outside-128/

Dougtone

Here are some photos and a blog write-up of the historic Rocks Village Bridge over the Merrimack River between Haverhill (Rocks Village) and West Newbury, Mass.

https://www.gribblenation.org/2019/12/rocks-village-bridge-over-merrimack.html


KEVIN_224

Between Exit 2 (Lee) and 3 (Westfield). Bad enough there's already about 30 miles between those two interchanges. The reporter simply says "just west of Springfield". That's closer to Pittsfield at that point. Sheesh!

DJ Particle

Just thought of something, and I dunno if anyone else has noticed this about MA-39...

It's a Chatham bypass of MA-28, right?

2+1 = 3
8+1 = 9

I'm willing to bet that was how MA-39 was numbered, wasn't it?   :hmmm:

hotdogPi

Quote from: DJ Particle on January 29, 2020, 07:51:57 AM
Just thought of something, and I dunno if anyone else has noticed this about MA-39...

It's a Chatham bypass of MA-28, right?

2+1 = 3
8+1 = 9

I'm willing to bet that was how MA-39 was numbered, wasn't it?   :hmmm:

Cape Cod canal:
25 + 3 = 28
3 + 3 = 6
Clinched, minus I-93 (I'm missing a few miles and my file is incorrect)

Traveled, plus US 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

I will be in Burlington VT for the eclipse.

Rothman

Quote from: 1 on January 29, 2020, 07:58:20 AM
Quote from: DJ Particle on January 29, 2020, 07:51:57 AM
Just thought of something, and I dunno if anyone else has noticed this about MA-39...

It's a Chatham bypass of MA-28, right?

2+1 = 3
8+1 = 9

I'm willing to bet that was how MA-39 was numbered, wasn't it?   :hmmm:

Cape Cod canal:
25 + 3 = 28
3 + 3 = 6
Illuminati confirmed!
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

RobbieL2415

Quote from: 1 on January 29, 2020, 07:58:20 AM
Quote from: DJ Particle on January 29, 2020, 07:51:57 AM
Just thought of something, and I dunno if anyone else has noticed this about MA-39...

It's a Chatham bypass of MA-28, right?

2+1 = 3
8+1 = 9

I'm willing to bet that was how MA-39 was numbered, wasn't it?   :hmmm:

Cape Cod canal:
25 + 3 = 28
3 + 3 = 6
US 6 is numbered in accordance with the grid, so that one is coincidental.

Alps

Quote from: 1 on January 29, 2020, 07:58:20 AM
Quote from: DJ Particle on January 29, 2020, 07:51:57 AM
Just thought of something, and I dunno if anyone else has noticed this about MA-39...

It's a Chatham bypass of MA-28, right?

2+1 = 3
8+1 = 9

I'm willing to bet that was how MA-39 was numbered, wasn't it?   :hmmm:

Cape Cod canal:
25 + 3 = 28
3 + 3 = 6
Los Angeles: 5 x 81 = 405
81 = 9 x 9 = 3 x 3 x 3 x 3
Kobe's numbers: 24 and 8
4 = 2^2. 8 = 2^3. reverse that and you have 3^2^2 = 3^4 = 81

shadyjay

As Chevy Chase (as Gerald Ford) would say...

"It was my understanding that there would be no math"

:bigass:

I'm guessing things like that are pure coincidence.

empirestate

Quote from: shadyjay on January 29, 2020, 09:54:46 PM
As Chevy Chase (as Gerald Ford) would say...

"It was my understanding that there would be no math"

:bigass:

I'm guessing things like that are pure coincidence.

Not in Syracuse: I-690 + NY 5 =NY 695. :-)

(Also: NY 8 * 100 + NY 12 = NY 812.)

ProfBrad

Over the past week Route 2 in Lincoln has an increased speed limit from 45 mph to 55 mph between Bedford Road and just past exit 50.It is 55 for about a mile and a half stretch.

bob7374

MassDOT is reinstating HOV status to the I-93 South lanes that were open to all traffic under a pilot program started in October 2018. Traffic rule changes made at the same time for the South Boston Bypass Road will remain in place:
http://blog.mass.gov/transportation/massdot-highway/massdot-reinstates-hov-lane-from-the-kneeland-streetlincoln-street-area-to-i-93-southbound/

Pete from Boston

Quote from: bob7374 on March 06, 2020, 05:28:17 PM
MassDOT is reinstating HOV status to the I-93 South lanes that were open to all traffic under a pilot program started in October 2018. Traffic rule changes made at the same time for the South Boston Bypass Road will remain in place:
http://blog.mass.gov/transportation/massdot-highway/massdot-reinstates-hov-lane-from-the-kneeland-streetlincoln-street-area-to-i-93-southbound/

I'm curious if that lane is part of the state implementation plan under the Clean Air Act as the northside one supposedly is. Not that with today's EPA there's any likelihood of enforcement one way or the other.

bob7374


SectorZ

Quote from: bob7374 on March 26, 2020, 06:09:01 PM
Two sections of MA 28 in Reading will undergo a pilot Road Diet starting in April:
http://blog.mass.gov/transportation/massdot-highway/reading-main-street-route-28-project-preparation-begins/

That is a good stretch to test it on. The part north of Reading center doesn't have enough traffic to justify its current configuration.

PHLBOS

Quote from: SectorZ on March 26, 2020, 07:40:45 PM
Quote from: bob7374 on March 26, 2020, 06:09:01 PM
Two sections of MA 28 in Reading will undergo a pilot Road Diet starting in April:
http://blog.mass.gov/transportation/massdot-highway/reading-main-street-route-28-project-preparation-begins/

That is a good stretch to test it on. The part north of Reading center doesn't have enough traffic to justify its current configuration.
How long has that 4-lane stripe configuration been there?  One has to wonder if such predated the existence of I-93.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

SectorZ

Quote from: PHLBOS on March 31, 2020, 04:49:33 PM
Quote from: SectorZ on March 26, 2020, 07:40:45 PM
Quote from: bob7374 on March 26, 2020, 06:09:01 PM
Two sections of MA 28 in Reading will undergo a pilot Road Diet starting in April:
http://blog.mass.gov/transportation/massdot-highway/reading-main-street-route-28-project-preparation-begins/

That is a good stretch to test it on. The part north of Reading center doesn't have enough traffic to justify its current configuration.
How long has that 4-lane stripe configuration been there?  One has to wonder if such predated the existence of I-93.

Based on historic aerials, looks like between 1969 and 1971 it went from two to four lanes, which is a good few years after 93 was built and opened.

bob7374

One thing the coronavirus shutdown has given me is time to finish a planned critique of the current Massachusetts highway system and suggestions to fix them, something that I've promised on my Massachusetts highways website for over 5 years. The first draft of the site is at: http://www.malmeroads.net/mass21c/improvements.html. Feel free to offer any suggestions or comments which I will take into account before a formal launch.

One subject I discuss is better, or at least less confusing, route signage. MA 38 for example. It was truncated to the intersection with MA 28 in Somerville in 1971. In the 1990's, however, signage appeared that implied it extended to Sullivan Square in Charlestown, though no complementary signage was installed in the other direction. Most just assumed the signage was in error. In recent years however, not only was the 1990s era signage replaced with new signs with the same information:


Additional guide and trailblazer signage was installed on and around MA 28:


Still no complementary signage for the other direction though, so where does it end? One of the questions I hope to answer with the new site.

Alps

Quote from: bob7374 on April 19, 2020, 04:09:52 PM
One thing the coronavirus shutdown has given me is time to finish a planned critique of the current Massachusetts highway system and suggestions to fix them, something that I've promised on my Massachusetts highways website for over 5 years. The first draft of the site is at: http://www.malmeroads.net/mass21c/improvements.html. Feel free to offer any suggestions or comments which I will take into account before a formal launch.

One subject I discuss is better, or at least less confusing, route signage. MA 38 for example. It was truncated to the intersection with MA 28 in Somerville in 1971. In the 1990's, however, signage appeared that implied it extended to Sullivan Square in Charlestown, though no complementary signage was installed in the other direction. Most just assumed the signage was in error. In recent years however, not only was the 1990s era signage replaced with new signs with the same information:


Additional guide and trailblazer signage was installed on and around MA 28:


Still no complementary signage for the other direction though, so where does it end? One of the questions I hope to answer with the new site.
I'm sure we'll get another thread going to discuss your ideas, so here are my suggestions:
* Break your site into pages. For now, have one page for renumberings, one for reroutings, etc. About 3/4 of the way down my brain started protesting.
* If you have multiple routes that depend on each other (like 25 and 28, or 2 and 3), provide a general overview map showing all the affected routes and what you would do to them, and then go through each route individually. Makes it easier to see how the changes fit together.

I look forward to having a place to discuss these!

deathtopumpkins

A very interesting read! Thank you for taking the time and effort to do this! I don't personally agree with all of the decisions (e.g. eliminating 28 where parallel to 495, as it provides a useful alternate route in case of congestion or incidents), but see the logic behind them.

A few things of note though:

  • The last MA 99 standalone reassurance sign may in Everett, but there's still plenty of signage in Charlestown. There's a 'paddle' sign at the beginning of the Sullivan Square underpass reading "99 south to 93 south Boston", and the new overhead signage approaching Sullivan from 93/Somerville includes 99 shields. Southbound signage does disappear after Sullivan, though all you're really missing is an end sign at City Square (and southbound signage at Austin St, but I can forgive omission of signs for a route than ends in a quarter mile anyway. Northbound there's a 'paddle' sign on Austin St for "99 north to 93 north", and a brand new (and weirdly blue) "99/Encore keep left" sign before the Sullivan Square underpass, plus overhead signage at the underpass split itself, though there doesn't seem to be a mention of 99 north for traffic leaving the rotary. On the whole, it's signed decently well for an urban route in MA. I do really like the idea of signing it down Washington St to Haymarket though.
  • Extending 203 up the Jamaicaway is a bad idea. No trucks, very narrow lanes, not exactly state highway material, which is a big part of why 1 was removed from it in the first place. If the issue is the route having a 'hanging end', and the Jamaicaway routing needs a number, resurrect the old 1 routing as 1A.
  • I question the need for 328, with its long concurrency with 3A. It seems inconsistent with your other proposals, which seem to have a goal of reducing unnecessary concurrencies.
  • Improving signage on Memorial Drive is a lost cause that would provide little benefit to the traveling public. At this point it would probably be easier to just reroute/truncate affected routes. They'll always be secondary to the road names, and the routings generally prioritize continuous numbers rather than routes useful for navigation.
  • I'm as intrigued as you are by the 38 signs, especially because Mystic Ave actually has mileposts - the 0.0 for 38 can be seen in one of your pictures right next to a new sign showing 38 continuing south. Interestingly, while signage for 38 has popped up all over the place on surface roads, it's actually been disappearing on 93. The 38 shield was removed from Exit 29 advance signs in 2015, and even the 28 shield came off in 2018!

These are just my personal thoughts though!
Disclaimer: All posts represent my personal opinions and not those of my employer.

Clinched Highways | Counties Visited

DJ Particle

Curious...since MA never did sign a "MA-44A" in Plymouth, have there been any plans to extend MA-80 to MA-3 exit 6 (15)?



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