'69 GM video Shows All the Failed Attempts to Replace the Otto and Diesel engine

[kernals12]

The age of the Otto and Diesel cycle engines is coming to an end after over a century. The reason for this is that improvements in batteries have made it practical to power cars the way they always should have, by quiet, simple electric motors. But that it took this long isn't for a lack of trying, as shown by this presentation by GM in 1969 basically covering every alternative powertrain considered.

Steam engines, stirling engines, gas turbines, free piston engines, fuel cells, and, yes, batteries. But nothing at the time could match the internal combustion engine.

And a few years after this, it seemed as if it was finally over. A new contender, the Wankel rotary, offered a light, smooth, compact source of power with few moving parts. In 1972 John DeLorean said that by 1980, GM would be using only rotary engines. But the Wankel had some problems; it drank fuel, it belched out smog, and it wore down its apex seals as if it used a sandblaster. So it joined all the others. In the 90s, an Australian company called Orbital claimed it had cracked the emissions problems of 2 stroke engines, but it hadn't.

So we'd have to wait until the 2020s before we could finally put an end to the internal combustion engine. It's too bad, I rather liked the Stirling.

[Ned Weasel]

The first electric cars are actually a lot older than that.

[kernals12]

The first electric cars are actually a lot older than that.

I know

[Max Rockatansky]

You're calling the internal combustion engine dead way too soon, there is no way electrics will surpass the market share or combustion engines this decade.  Even with mandates places like Europe and California are throwing out doesn't mean they are going to disappear from the roads for decades.  For one, there aren't really many viable concepts out there to replace commercial vehicles with electrics.  More so for passenger vehicles there is still a huge obstacle to over come in terms of; price, range, charging times and infrastructure.

Regarding 70s cars, most were 60s era designs with safety bumpers slapped out and compression ratios lowered.  But we do have a dedicated thread for that already:

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=17891.0

[TravelingBethelite]

Boy, would I love to have seen that exhibit in person. 

[Max Rockatansky]

Boy, would I love to have seen that exhibit in person. 

Car shows and exhibitions are a shell of what they once were.  It was a lot of fun to go to the Detroit Auto Show before the car magazines and internet spoiled all the surprise car releases or concepts. 

[kernals12]

Boy, would I love to have seen that exhibit in person. 

Car shows and exhibitions are a shell of what they once were.  It was a lot of fun to go to the Detroit Auto Show before the car magazines and internet spoiled all the surprise car releases or concepts.

I went to the New York Show every year until I moved to Massachusetts.

[Max Rockatansky]

Boy, would I love to have seen that exhibit in person. 

Car shows and exhibitions are a shell of what they once were.  It was a lot of fun to go to the Detroit Auto Show before the car magazines and internet spoiled all the surprise car releases or concepts.

I went to the New York Show every year until I moved to Massachusetts.

Around the early 2000s all the stuff that would be a surprise started to pop up in car magazines like Motor Trend.  After that it wasn't much fun to go unless there was a car I really wanted to check out since I was interested in buying it.

[kevinb1994]

Boy, would I love to have seen that exhibit in person. 

Car shows and exhibitions are a shell of what they once were.  It was a lot of fun to go to the Detroit Auto Show before the car magazines and internet spoiled all the surprise car releases or concepts.

I went to the New York Show every year until I moved to Massachusetts.

I was a regular at that show for a good decade or so. Now, we have our own car show here. It's not as big, of course.

[kernals12]

The stirling engine was a rather interesting contender. NASA put a lot of effort into developing an automotive engine from it in the 80s see here

From what I've read, the problems were high cooling requirements, lack of throttleibility, the tendency for the helium working fluid to leak, and cost.

[kphoger]

You're calling the internal combustion engine dead way too soon, there is no way electrics will surpass the market share or combustion engines this decade.  Even with mandates places like Europe and California are throwing out doesn't mean they are going to disappear from the roads for decades.  For one, there aren't really many viable concepts out there to replace commercial vehicles with electrics.  More so for passenger vehicles there is still a huge obstacle to over come in terms of; price, range, charging times and infrastructure.

I expect Saudi Arabia to lag just slightly behind California when it comes to eliminating gasoline engines from the road.   

[Henry]

Come 2025, everything will be all EVs, which explains why GM changed its logo recently. "EVerybody in!"

[Max Rockatansky]

^^^

Paint me a skeptic on GM's ability to get something like that done.  They really stand to alienate a lot of their commercial vehicle buys who usually want nothing more than entry level fleet vehicles.  That announcement struck me as reactionary to the platitudes governor Newsom put out about 2035.  I mean, I get it, GM doesn't want to get caught with their pants down like they did with California emissions.  All the same, 2035 seems to me to be an impossible goal if anyone cares at all about having affordable passenger vehicles.  Things are trending towards EVs anyways, I don't think mandates will do much to speed up what was happening naturally. 

[kernals12]

^^^

Paint me a skeptic on GM's ability to get something like that done.  They really stand to alienate a lot of their commercial vehicle buys who usually want nothing more than entry level fleet vehicles.  That announcement struck me as reactionary to the platitudes governor Newsom put out about 2035.  I mean, I get it, GM doesn't want to get caught with their pants down like they did with California emissions.  All the same, 2035 seems to me to be an impossible goal if anyone cares at all about having affordable passenger vehicles.  Things are trending towards EVs anyways, I don't think mandates will do much to speed up what was happening naturally.

Progress in battery technology has been spectacular. I think electric cars will be as cheap and convenient as gasoline ones by the end of the decade. I also imagine by that point, there will be restrictions on the use of diesel powered trucks and buses in urban areas and heavily polluted rural areas (e.g. California's central valley).

[Max Rockatansky]

^^^

Paint me a skeptic on GM's ability to get something like that done.  They really stand to alienate a lot of their commercial vehicle buys who usually want nothing more than entry level fleet vehicles.  That announcement struck me as reactionary to the platitudes governor Newsom put out about 2035.  I mean, I get it, GM doesn't want to get caught with their pants down like they did with California emissions.  All the same, 2035 seems to me to be an impossible goal if anyone cares at all about having affordable passenger vehicles.  Things are trending towards EVs anyways, I don't think mandates will do much to speed up what was happening naturally.

Progress in battery technology has been spectacular. I think electric cars will be as cheap and convenient as gasoline ones by the end of the decade. I also imagine by that point, there will be restrictions on the use of diesel powered trucks and buses in urban areas and heavily polluted rural areas (e.g. California's central valley).

I'm not saying that it won't happen, but I don't see it happening overnight like they 2035 mandate seems to imply.  To that end with the Central Valley, that freight from the agricultural industry has huge influence economically.  Notably commercial vehicles were not cited in Newsom's 2035 mandate for passenger EVs, I suspect that has a lot do with the agricultural industry and freight industry likely pushing back.

To that end I've always found the summer time pollution to be an interesting topic in the Central Valley.  Most people assume it is just vehicle pollution but they forget that the agricultural industry kicks up a ton of dirt everyday which is compounded when the fire season starts.