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South Carolina

Started by wriddle082, January 30, 2011, 07:53:11 PM

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Tom958

Quote from: D-Dey65 on February 15, 2021, 10:05:17 AM
More Santee stuff;

At the intersection of US 15, US 301 and Bass Road (old US 15), there's an elongated turning ramp from southbound Bass Road to Southbound US 301. Shouldn't there also be another turning ramp from northbound US 15 to US 301, especially since the two routes are merged northeast of that intersection?

Apparently, that ramp used to be the two-lane US 301 mainline. It's still two lanes from that side street to US 15, where the old channelized intersection still survives.


amroad17

I do not see why US 15 SB cannot stay on I-95 until Exit 93 (and vice versa--NB entering I-95 at Exit 93) instead of having the zig-zag routing it currently has.  SC 267 could be extended south to I-95 and the rest of Bass Drive become locally controlled.

Also, where does US 15 exit I-95?  At Exit 98 or Exit 97, as there are not any BGS's depicting this?  Looking at Google Maps, I notice that the signage is near non-existent until I saw a SOUTH US 15 reassurance marker on Bass just south of the US 301 intersection.  Meanwhile, on the overhead satellite view, Google depicts US 15 SB as exiting at Exit 98 while the street view has US 15 SB (implied) exiting at Exit 97.

I also noticed a THRU TRUCKS PROHIBITED sign on Bass north of the US 301 intersection.  This is more than likely why US 15 isn't routed that way now (no matter what Google Maps depicts--I know, they are somewhat inaccurate on certain routings).  Yet US 15 is routed inefficiently around Santee.  I guess it is routed the way it is because it is a way for US 15 NB traffic to get to Santee, and indirectly to Elloree, and because no paperwork has been filed with AASHTO to change the official routing--especially SB.  So, the way SC gets around it is by not placing US 15 SB on any BGS's until Exit 93.
I don't need a GPS.  I AM the GPS! (for family and friends)

Mapmikey

Quote from: amroad17 on February 17, 2021, 02:59:48 AM
I do not see why US 15 SB cannot stay on I-95 until Exit 93 (and vice versa--NB entering I-95 at Exit 93) instead of having the zig-zag routing it currently has.  SC 267 could be extended south to I-95 and the rest of Bass Drive become locally controlled.

Also, where does US 15 exit I-95?  At Exit 98 or Exit 97, as there are not any BGS's depicting this?  Looking at Google Maps, I notice that the signage is near non-existent until I saw a SOUTH US 15 reassurance marker on Bass just south of the US 301 intersection.  Meanwhile, on the overhead satellite view, Google depicts US 15 SB as exiting at Exit 98 while the street view has US 15 SB (implied) exiting at Exit 97.

I also noticed a THRU TRUCKS PROHIBITED sign on Bass north of the US 301 intersection.  This is more than likely why US 15 isn't routed that way now (no matter what Google Maps depicts--I know, they are somewhat inaccurate on certain routings).  Yet US 15 is routed inefficiently around Santee.  I guess it is routed the way it is because it is a way for US 15 NB traffic to get to Santee, and indirectly to Elloree, and because no paperwork has been filed with AASHTO to change the official routing--especially SB.  So, the way SC gets around it is by not placing US 15 SB on any BGS's until Exit 93.

Routing US 15 to Exit 93 makes sense, as would decommissioning it entirely south of Exit 102.

The older GMSV shows US 15 NB directed to follow 301 to I-95 and the request to AASHTO removing 15-301 from the Lake Marion bridge also puts it there, so that is its real routing via Exit 97.   I do not recall ever seeing any US 15 signage at Exit 97 itself when the change was initially made, and I had thought at the time 15-301 exited with SC 6.

Signage in Santee, esp. along SC 6 is extremely contradictory about the status of 15-301. 

D-Dey65

#428
Quote from: Mapmikey on February 15, 2021, 07:08:36 PM
Quote from: fillup420 on February 15, 2021, 04:40:40 PM
Quote from: D-Dey65 on February 15, 2021, 10:05:17 AM
More Santee stuff;

At the intersection of US 15, US 301 and Bass Road (old US 15), there's an elongated turning ramp from southbound Bass Road to Southbound US 301. Shouldn't there also be another turning ramp from northbound US 15 to US 301, especially since the two routes are merged northeast of that intersection?

Looks to me like its left over from before I-95 was built. Back then, that intersection would've been the southern split of 15 and 301. North of there, the routes were concurrent through town and across Lake Marion. The extra connections between the mainline and the ramp north of the intersection show this. SC has a lot of these wye-type intersections around the state. a lot of them have been upgraded over the years, but many still remain.

This is correct.  1957 aerial shows exactly same configuration as today for the former US 15-301 split.

Yeah, I see that. Speaking of the 1957 aerial, is this a toll plaza I see north of there?
https://historicaerials.com/?layer=map&zoom=12&lat=33.483333&lon=-80.483333

Since amroad17 and Mapmikey brought it up, before I went on the Old US 15-301 photograph crusade on my way to Metro New York City, I was a bit confused on whether or not the current US 15-301 overlap existed between that intersection and Exit 97 as well. SCDOT really has to get on the ball when it comes to signage.




Mapmikey

The link to satellite didn't bring up anything specific.

Are you referring to a facility on former 15-301 just south of the railroad crossing below SC 6?

D-Dey65

Quote from: Mapmikey on February 19, 2021, 09:05:39 PM
The link to satellite didn't bring up anything specific.

Are you referring to a facility on former 15-301 just south of the railroad crossing below SC 6?
I certainly am.


Mapmikey

#431
I see why the question was asked based on what that looks like.

Definitely not a toll booth as the bridge wasn't tolled.  Location also not ideal for a booth if it was since it can be easily avoided.

If it was a state run thing it would've been a weigh station.  Subsequent aerials and GMSVs are inconclusive on that conjecture.  County maps of that era do not label weigh stations.

What it does have there is a "business establishment" so it may have been a gas station, truck stop or truck repair business, which is plausible given aerials and GMSV

99% sure this was across the street from whatever it was (and the photo taken from the open paved area) - https://www.ebay.com/itm/Palms-Motel-Santee-South-Carolina-Vintage-1954-Advertising-Postcard/123737748706?hash=item1ccf5834e2:g:nJQAAOSwFNZWx1Vn


modified to add postcard link

D-Dey65

Good to know. Now I'd like to find out where the former Horne's was. That usual website on ex-restaurants and hotels and such isn't giving me enough info.

The same goes for the one in Ocala, which should be on another thread.


Mapmikey

Quote from: D-Dey65 on February 24, 2021, 08:08:28 PM
Good to know. Now I'd like to find out where the former Horne's was. That usual website on ex-restaurants and hotels and such isn't giving me enough info.

The same goes for the one in Ocala, which should be on another thread.




The Ocala location was behind the Denny's and was torn down in the mid 2010s:  https://goo.gl/maps/Sq5A3EcrnMn9UpND7 and https://goo.gl/maps/6Ei1vAPynrmQecqu6



D-Dey65

Quote from: Mapmikey on February 25, 2021, 07:17:50 AM
Quote from: D-Dey65 on February 24, 2021, 08:08:28 PM
Good to know. Now I'd like to find out where the former Horne's was. That usual website on ex-restaurants and hotels and such isn't giving me enough info.

The same goes for the one in Ocala, which should be on another thread.




The Ocala location was behind the Denny's and was torn down in the mid 2010s:  https://goo.gl/maps/Sq5A3EcrnMn9UpND7 and https://goo.gl/maps/6Ei1vAPynrmQecqu6

Well thanks, because I now know the site I did capture in June 2020 was a former Waffle House about four business sites west of there.   

Mapmikey

I believe I know where the Santee one was now.  I was misreading the description at http://highwayhost.org/Hornes/Locations/SouthCarolina/southcarolina1.htm#Santee yesterday.

Satellite views aren't the greatest though.  But I believe this was the spot: https://goo.gl/maps/g8e6apRNQ53tne199
I have vague memories of a thing being here but couldn't tell you what.

I may have found the Pee Dee SC one
In the median at this location: https://goo.gl/maps/92BSMGtUM5Cz58T2A
The 1983 satellite view strongly suggests it was here.

74/171FAN

Some important SCDOT News Releases from earlier this month:

SCDOT to Discontinue Toll Collections on Hilton Head's Cross Island Parkway June 30, 2021 (So I guess it just got more attractive to clinch US 278 there.)

SCDOT to Begin Widening of Highway 17 in Jasper County Feb. 22 (This is from the GA Border to SC 315.)
I am now a PennDOT employee.  My opinions/views do not necessarily reflect the opinions/views of PennDOT.

D-Dey65

#437
Quote from: amroad17 on February 17, 2021, 02:59:48 AM
I do not see why US 15 SB cannot stay on I-95 until Exit 93 (and vice versa--NB entering I-95 at Exit 93) instead of having the zig-zag routing it currently has.  SC 267 could be extended south to I-95 and the rest of Bass Drive become locally controlled.
Yes, that area was quite barren when I saw it in the Fall of 2019. I don't mind your suggestion, but I also like the additional idea of having the segment between Exits 93 and 98 redesignated a US 15 Business or Old US 15, or even Historic US 15, albeit with overlaps with the extended SC 267, and the short segment of SC 6 between Bass Road and I-95.

Quote from: 74/171FAN on February 26, 2021, 06:32:53 PM
SCDOT to Begin Widening of Highway 17 in Jasper County Feb. 22 (This is from the GA Border to SC 315.)
If they do that, GDOT should also widen the Tallmadge Memorial Bridge north of the Savannah Harbor Parkway.


D-Dey65

Somebody on Wikipedia is trying to cast doubt about the closing date of the old US 15-301 Lake Marion Bridge. Do they have a legitimate reason for that?


Mapmikey

Quote from: D-Dey65 on March 12, 2021, 04:10:13 PM
Somebody on Wikipedia is trying to cast doubt about the closing date of the old US 15-301 Lake Marion Bridge. Do they have a legitimate reason for that?



What Wikipedia page are you seeing this? 

The US 15 and US 301 pages have them correctly moving to I-95 in 1987.

The I-95 page has a caption saying the bridge closed as a fishing pier in 2019.  That might be inaccurate by a couple years, per https://thetandd.com/news/local/state-might-reopen-lake-marion-bridge-agencies-look-at-possibility-cost-of-project/article_0ed26ca4-a47f-5396-8d64-9473e7386fec.html

D-Dey65

Quote from: Mapmikey on March 12, 2021, 04:21:56 PM
Quote from: D-Dey65 on March 12, 2021, 04:10:13 PM
Somebody on Wikipedia is trying to cast doubt about the closing date of the old US 15-301 Lake Marion Bridge. Do they have a legitimate reason for that?



What Wikipedia page are you seeing this? 

The US 15 and US 301 pages have them correctly moving to I-95 in 1987.
With citation tags attached to them.  That's the problem.


Mapmikey

Quote from: D-Dey65 on March 12, 2021, 05:12:51 PM
Quote from: Mapmikey on March 12, 2021, 04:21:56 PM
Quote from: D-Dey65 on March 12, 2021, 04:10:13 PM
Somebody on Wikipedia is trying to cast doubt about the closing date of the old US 15-301 Lake Marion Bridge. Do they have a legitimate reason for that?



What Wikipedia page are you seeing this? 

The US 15 and US 301 pages have them correctly moving to I-95 in 1987.
With citation tags attached to them.  That's the problem.



The previous citation was to my website, which Wikipedia doesn't consider to be an original source (what folks who have done with Virginia highway stuff on Wikipedia is just cite what I cite in the CTB for a lot of information).  An actual citation does exist for the US 15-301 move, though, and that would be the AASHO minutes of 1987 approving the move.

Alps

I have been unable to find any indication of when I-585 will be upgraded near and at I-85. It seems to have quietly died 15 years ago and I wonder if that was a condition of its extension.

Mapmikey

Quote from: Alps on April 12, 2021, 07:50:22 PM
I have been unable to find any indication of when I-585 will be upgraded near and at I-85. It seems to have quietly died 15 years ago and I wonder if that was a condition of its extension.

I sent SCDOT this e-mail on Feb 25 but got no response beyond 'let me look into it'.  I just now sent a nudge asking if an answer has been determined.

QuoteI am trying to learn whether I-585 has been officially extended past I-85 Bus, where it had ended for decades, to the relocated I-85 (or just short of there since there is still an at-grade intersection just south of the interchange with I-85 which is also not free-flowing.

The national and Spartanburg inset maps available through https://hepgis.fhwa.dot.gov/fhwagis/ show that I-585 has been extended north.

The FHWA 2018 mile log (https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/planning/national_highway_system/interstate_highway_system/routefinder/table02.cfm) still shows the original distance and SCDOT's mile log (https://ris.scdot.org/LogMileReport.aspx?county=42&type=1&number=585&auxiliary=0&map=y) shows it ending 0.18 miles north of the I-85 Bus overpass, which is probably the original 1959 endpoint within the footprint of the original interchange with I-85.

If I-585 now extends to the relocated I-85, when did this occur?

Henry

Quote from: Mapmikey on April 13, 2021, 06:31:30 AM
Quote from: Alps on April 12, 2021, 07:50:22 PM
I have been unable to find any indication of when I-585 will be upgraded near and at I-85. It seems to have quietly died 15 years ago and I wonder if that was a condition of its extension.

I sent SCDOT this e-mail on Feb 25 but got no response beyond 'let me look into it'.  I just now sent a nudge asking if an answer has been determined.

QuoteI am trying to learn whether I-585 has been officially extended past I-85 Bus, where it had ended for decades, to the relocated I-85 (or just short of there since there is still an at-grade intersection just south of the interchange with I-85 which is also not free-flowing.

The national and Spartanburg inset maps available through https://hepgis.fhwa.dot.gov/fhwagis/ show that I-585 has been extended north.

The FHWA 2018 mile log (https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/planning/national_highway_system/interstate_highway_system/routefinder/table02.cfm) still shows the original distance and SCDOT's mile log (https://ris.scdot.org/LogMileReport.aspx?county=42&type=1&number=585&auxiliary=0&map=y) shows it ending 0.18 miles north of the I-85 Bus overpass, which is probably the original 1959 endpoint within the footprint of the original interchange with I-85.

If I-585 now extends to the relocated I-85, when did this occur?
So this means that Spartanburg is stuck with another Breezewood?
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go! Hey Chicago, what do you say? The Cubs are gonna win today!

sprjus4

I suppose, but in reality, it's not even comparable. I-585 is a local route, not a major through route that dumps you onto city streets.

The Ghostbuster

Why was Interstate 585 designated? The freeway is not up to Interstate Standards, and it hasn't connected with Interstate 85 since the relocation of 85 was completed in 1995. Maybe the freeway should have remained solely US 176, especially since the exit numbers are based on 176's mileage, not 585's.

sprjus4

It was built in 1957 and designated in 1962 when those standards were acceptable, and it did connect to the previous I-85 alignment that is now I-85 Business.

Henry

Quote from: sprjus4 on April 13, 2021, 11:22:33 AM
I suppose, but in reality, it's not even comparable. I-585 is a local route, not a major through route that dumps you onto city streets.
I see where I went wrong. So it's more of a Cheyenne situation where a 2di meets its 3di spur at a diamond interchange. At least I-585 is a freeway further down.
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go! Hey Chicago, what do you say? The Cubs are gonna win today!

Mapmikey

Breaking news on I-585.  It has NOT been extended past I-85 Bus.  I forgot who I emailed.  It was FHWA, not SCDOT.

QuoteAfter some research, we can confirm that I-585 still terminates at I-85 Bus, and has not been extended to the relocated I-85.  I have revised the hepgis map to show the correct I-585 termination.  Thank you for bringing this to our attention.

i verified the map was indeed changed.




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