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Author Topic: SunPass query as to residents of E-ZPass states  (Read 66017 times)

1995hoo

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Re: SunPass query as to residents of E-ZPass states
« Reply #75 on: November 25, 2018, 11:42:06 AM »

It claims you won't be charged twice, but on the other hand, the way it is written refers to E-Pass customers not being charged twice. The E-Pass is the CFX ETC system. It's fully interoperable with SunPass, but from the way their page is written, it's not clear to me whether the "won't be charged twice" assurance is meant to apply to SunPass users or just to people who have actual E-Pass transponders. Like you, we have a SunPass Mini sticker (taped to the windshield) and an E-ZPass Flex. In the past, I haven't bothered to remove the E-ZPass on trips to Florida. Now I may do so if we'll be headed through the Orlando area. We don't have a "no-read bag" because Virginia doesn't give you one (and our Flex devices probably wouldn't fit in my old New Jersey bag, if I could find it), so I may just wrap it in foil when we head south for Christmas. I'd rather not have to try to obtain a credit from Virginia for the tolls because I have a feeling they'd be utterly unhelpful about it.

I believe the theory of how it is supposed to work is that the CFX facility's system will detect both your devices and will give the E-Pass (or, hopefully, the SunPass) "priority" (for lack of a better word) such that it gets billed and then the E-ZPass doesn't get billed. I have no idea how it knows that both transponders are associated with that particular vehicle. On some of the quieter toll roads, like FL-429 near its northern end, I guess that's straightforward, but on busy segments like the Bee Line it seems it'd be a lot less clear. I guess it has something to do with there being two devices read in the same toll lane within less than a second of each other.

BTW, I'm wary of trusting Florida's toll-by-plate systems after my wife's experience this summer. It's discussed in another thread, but boiled down to the essentials, she didn't take our SunPass Mini with her when she flew down for a visit this summer. Instead, she called me before leaving the rental car lot and gave me the license plate number and I added it to our SunPass account right then via their website. The idea was to avoid the rental-car agency surcharge for tolls. No luck. SOME tolls posted to our SunPass account. Some didn't. No rhyme nor reason to what did or didn't post, either. So she still got a separate charge to her credit card from the rental-car agency a few weeks later. Based on all that, I'm perfectly happy to continue using our transponders for the time being even if it might be less "convenient" than toll-by-plate "should" be.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2018, 11:46:20 AM by 1995hoo »
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"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
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commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

1995hoo

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Re: SunPass query as to residents of E-ZPass states
« Reply #76 on: December 23, 2018, 08:28:47 AM »

Following up on this to say we passed through the Orlando area yesterday via the northern end of FL-429 (to get a re-clinch) and the Turnpike. When we entered FL-429 from FL-46 there was a white sign that said “BEGIN E-ZPASS ACCEPTED” and when we exited into the Turnpike there was a similar sign saying “END E-ZPASS ACCEPTED.” I have no idea how quickly tolls would post because I had removed ours in favor of the SunPass. The CFX tolls posted to the SunPass overnight. I suppose I ought to check the E-ZPass statement this week to confirm I wasn’t double-charged because we didn’t have a “no-read bag” with us.
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"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

Eth

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Re: SunPass query as to residents of E-ZPass states
« Reply #77 on: December 23, 2018, 12:53:07 PM »

Following up on this to say we passed through the Orlando area yesterday via the northern end of FL-429 (to get a re-clinch) and the Turnpike. When we entered FL-429 from FL-46 there was a white sign that said “BEGIN E-ZPASS ACCEPTED” and when we exited into the Turnpike there was a similar sign saying “END E-ZPASS ACCEPTED.” I have no idea how quickly tolls would post because I had removed ours in favor of the SunPass. The CFX tolls posted to the SunPass overnight. I suppose I ought to check the E-ZPass statement this week to confirm I wasn’t double-charged because we didn’t have a “no-read bag” with us.

Related: they could really use better signage for accepted transponders on the CFX portion of FL 429. Catching it southbound from the Turnpike last Friday, I wasn't entirely sure whether or not my Peach Pass would be accepted. I almost went into the cash lanes at the first toll plaza before finally spying a tiny SunPass logo on one of the last signs.

Honestly, there's still some doubt. I just checked my Peach Pass account, and this appears to be the only toll from last weekend that has not yet posted to it. Everything else (including the SunPass-native plaza further south on 429) is there.
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UCFKnights

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Re: SunPass query as to residents of E-ZPass states
« Reply #78 on: December 23, 2018, 09:50:47 PM »

Following up on this to say we passed through the Orlando area yesterday via the northern end of FL-429 (to get a re-clinch) and the Turnpike. When we entered FL-429 from FL-46 there was a white sign that said “BEGIN E-ZPASS ACCEPTED” and when we exited into the Turnpike there was a similar sign saying “END E-ZPASS ACCEPTED.” I have no idea how quickly tolls would post because I had removed ours in favor of the SunPass. The CFX tolls posted to the SunPass overnight. I suppose I ought to check the E-ZPass statement this week to confirm I wasn’t double-charged because we didn’t have a “no-read bag” with us.

Related: they could really use better signage for accepted transponders on the CFX portion of FL 429. Catching it southbound from the Turnpike last Friday, I wasn't entirely sure whether or not my Peach Pass would be accepted. I almost went into the cash lanes at the first toll plaza before finally spying a tiny SunPass logo on one of the last signs.

Honestly, there's still some doubt. I just checked my Peach Pass account, and this appears to be the only toll from last weekend that has not yet posted to it. Everything else (including the SunPass-native plaza further south on 429) is there.
SunPass is accepted at all electronic tolling facilities in the state, along with anything compatible with SunPass, so all electronic tolls in the state accept SunPass, Peach Pass, NC Quick Pass, E Pass, O Pass, Lee Way. There are a handful of private bridges in the state that are cash only and do not accept any electronic tolling system

E-ZPass is compatible with E Pass (but not vice versa, unless you buy an E Pass Xtra), and LeeWay with Palmetto Pass (and supposedly coming to the rest of the state shortly, I don't see any news on that), but not compatible with other systems throughout the state, from my understanding. My understanding is within the state of Florida, E Pass gives maximum discounts, as E Pass gets SunPass/Leeway discounts, but not vice versa. E Pass is also the cheapest transponders, and with the Xtra, is by far the most compatible (18 states).

« Last Edit: December 23, 2018, 09:53:47 PM by UCFKnights »
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Rothman

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Re: SunPass query as to residents of E-ZPass states
« Reply #79 on: December 28, 2018, 09:52:18 AM »

Dear heavens.  We need total interoperability.  Now.
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vdeane

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Re: SunPass query as to residents of E-ZPass states
« Reply #80 on: December 28, 2018, 12:49:38 PM »

At least all the Florida transponders are interoperable with everything SunPass is and vice versa, with things only really getting tricky where one of the local transponders is interoperable with something SunPass isn't.  Contrast to Texas, where it's just a free for all.
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Bobby5280

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Re: SunPass query as to residents of E-ZPass states
« Reply #81 on: December 29, 2018, 07:49:13 PM »

All these incompatible RFID toll tag systems operating on our national highway network is just another clear example of how badly detached the federal government has become at managing our national highway network.

There should be only ONE toll tag standard nationwide. That tid bit should have been resolved over 20 years ago when the first standards were being put in place (like the PikePass system here in Oklahoma). But no! The good 'ole boy network crap had to reign supreme. So now we have all these incompatible RFID systems with lots of expensive-to-replace infrastructure built around them. It's all just...stupid.

All these different toll road agencies just need to pick out which standards works best in terms of read-ability and overall reliability and then transition to that. Oklahoma has gone through a couple toll tag standards. Otherwise they might as well just read license plates and try to get it done that way. I miss the old soap bar PikePass transponders, partly because they were removable. They didn't have to stay stuck to the windshield 100% of the time.
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UCFKnights

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Re: SunPass query as to residents of E-ZPass states
« Reply #82 on: January 03, 2019, 06:14:20 PM »

All these incompatible RFID toll tag systems operating on our national highway network is just another clear example of how badly detached the federal government has become at managing our national highway network.

There should be only ONE toll tag standard nationwide. That tid bit should have been resolved over 20 years ago when the first standards were being put in place (like the PikePass system here in Oklahoma). But no! The good 'ole boy network crap had to reign supreme. So now we have all these incompatible RFID systems with lots of expensive-to-replace infrastructure built around them. It's all just...stupid.

All these different toll road agencies just need to pick out which standards works best in terms of read-ability and overall reliability and then transition to that. Oklahoma has gone through a couple toll tag standards. Otherwise they might as well just read license plates and try to get it done that way. I miss the old soap bar PikePass transponders, partly because they were removable. They didn't have to stay stuck to the windshield 100% of the time.
Of course the flipside of that is it likely would be impossible to have any future innovation in the field if the feds do it. Coordinating an upgrade would never happen... if it was done decades ago, I think we'd all still be stuck with toll lanes maxing at 25mph, and batteries constantly dying. Even within Florida, E Pass clearly led the charge with open road, full speed tolling while SunPass lagged behind, although SunPass eventually offered Toll by Plate before E Pass did (I don't think they have it anywhere formally yet, although they seem to do it if you just run the tolls).
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1995hoo

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Re: SunPass query as to residents of E-ZPass states
« Reply #83 on: January 11, 2019, 11:01:11 PM »

Following up on this to say we passed through the Orlando area yesterday via the northern end of FL-429 (to get a re-clinch) and the Turnpike. When we entered FL-429 from FL-46 there was a white sign that said “BEGIN E-ZPASS ACCEPTED” and when we exited into the Turnpike there was a similar sign saying “END E-ZPASS ACCEPTED.” I have no idea how quickly tolls would post because I had removed ours in favor of the SunPass. The CFX tolls posted to the SunPass overnight. I suppose I ought to check the E-ZPass statement this week to confirm I wasn’t double-charged because we didn’t have a “no-read bag” with us.

Following up on the above—I finally got around to checking my E-ZPass statement tonight (didn't get to it sooner because I had changed the password last month and, of course, I had forgotten what the new one was until I looked in the secure file on my PC). I had stuck the E-ZPass Flex in the center armrest while we were driving on the CFX facility (FL-429) and that seemed to do the job—it wasn't charged.

It took a little while for the CFX charges to post to the SunPass account, BTW—I expected that when we stopped at a service area on the Turnpike I'd get an American Express notification on my phone that the SunPass had replenished, but I didn't get one, and then later that day shortly after we passed the Lantana barrier my Apple Watch dinged me with the Amex notification. The Turnpike toll was something like $12 and it actually gave my SunPass account a negative balance prior to the replenishment.
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"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

Bobby5280

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Re: SunPass query as to residents of E-ZPass states
« Reply #84 on: March 02, 2019, 12:01:01 AM »

Quote from: UCFKnights
Of course the flipside of that is it likely would be impossible to have any future innovation in the field if the feds do it. Coordinating an upgrade would never happen... if it was done decades ago, I think we'd all still be stuck with toll lanes maxing at 25mph, and batteries constantly dying. Even within Florida, E Pass clearly led the charge with open road, full speed tolling while SunPass lagged behind, although SunPass eventually offered Toll by Plate before E Pass did (I don't think they have it anywhere formally yet, although they seem to do it if you just run the tolls).

The government doesn't necessarily have to be involved in steering a uniform toll tag standard that works nation-wide. But the feds may be forced to get involved unless all these different companies pushing incompatible standards can get over their selfish egos and come up with something that works everywhere in the United States. It's overdue. They need it get it done already.

We have plenty of other pieces of technology that took no government intervention to be standardized. I'm a big home theater fan and recall the days of the DVD and Blu-ray formats coming into their own, with both having to defeat inferior, incompatible standards. The graveyard of computing technology is littered with the bones of many dead software applications, storage formats and other peripherals that lost out to something better.

There's lots of different brands of debit and credit cards. But they all have the same size form factor. They've been using the same magnetic stripe technology for decades and lately have been transitioning to a more secure, standardized chip system. The credit and banking industry is an overwhelmingly far bigger, more complicated animal than a few toll road authorities. Yet they managed to agree on a standard that works nationwide (or really in many nations).
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wriddle082

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Re: SunPass query as to residents of E-ZPass states
« Reply #85 on: February 24, 2020, 05:52:06 AM »

Bumping an old thread, since the topic seems to fit...

A few weeks ago, I worked in South FL for a couple of weeks.  I did a one-time replenishment on my NC Quick Pass account for $30 before I headed down there because I estimated spending about that much in tolls (used the Turnpike, Sawgrass, and Alligator Alley).  I have yet to see any of these charges on my Quick Pass account.   Is the SunPass system that far behind with their billing?  A couple of weeks ago, I used a couple of the toll facilities in Hampton Roads, and they were charged to my Quicj Pass account fairly quickly, like within a couple of days.
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Rothman

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Re: SunPass query as to residents of E-ZPass states
« Reply #86 on: February 24, 2020, 06:09:58 AM »

That seems late to me.  At least when I was billed for "by plate," it only took two weeks or so.
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orulz

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Re: SunPass query as to residents of E-ZPass states
« Reply #87 on: February 24, 2020, 08:54:05 AM »

I found that some of the toll booths on 528 from Orlando to Cocoa don't actually read the NC transponders (I have a hard case) and bill by a photo of your license plate insteas. It took a couple weeks for the bill to post to my NCQP account.
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1995hoo

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Re: SunPass query as to residents of E-ZPass states
« Reply #88 on: February 24, 2020, 09:54:19 AM »

I found that some of the toll booths on 528 from Orlando to Cocoa don't actually read the NC transponders (I have a hard case) and bill by a photo of your license plate insteas. It took a couple weeks for the bill to post to my NCQP account.

This is part of what makes Florida's tolls complicated. The road you're referring to is a CFX operation, whereas the roads wriddle082 referred to are FTE operations. That may make a difference in when (or whether) tolls post.
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"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

NJRoadfan

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Re: SunPass query as to residents of E-ZPass states
« Reply #89 on: February 24, 2020, 08:42:58 PM »

I would hope that CFX's toll gantries can read both the eGo/ISO 6B RFID style signal (used on the Sunpass and Quickpass stickers) from a NC Quickpass and the 915Mhz E-ZPass IAG protocol (used on the hard case style transmitters). The TransCore readers likely in use on their roads should do both.

https://transcore.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Encompass-6-Rdr-PP.pdf

If they are doing "bill-by-plate" with E-ZPass instead of reading tags, it's a bit of a money loser for CFX.

Overall the Orlando area is a mess. The western most plaza on 528 (and most used by non-locals) is on a FTE maintained stretch and doesn't accept E-ZPass.
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orulz

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Re: SunPass query as to residents of E-ZPass states
« Reply #90 on: February 26, 2020, 02:56:22 PM »



Overall the Orlando area is a mess. The western most plaza on 528 (and most used by non-locals) is on a FTE maintained stretch and doesn't accept E-ZPass.

My NCQP was read just fine by that one. Not so for the other ones.
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1995hoo

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Re: SunPass query as to residents of E-ZPass states
« Reply #91 on: February 26, 2020, 04:33:16 PM »



Overall the Orlando area is a mess. The western most plaza on 528 (and most used by non-locals) is on a FTE maintained stretch and doesn't accept E-ZPass.

My NCQP was read just fine by that one. Not so for the other ones.

This is exactly the sort of thing that shouldn't happen, in theory. I wonder whether the system could somehow be tripped up by the CFX roads being compatible with both SunPass and E-ZPass, such that the system didn't know how to handle the Quick Pass because it likewise works with both systems, so it didn't know whether to bill it as a SunPass or an E-ZPass? (I have no idea whether this is the case, I'm just speculating. I assume a CFX facility could double-bill you if you had both a SunPass and an E-ZPass in place, but a Quick Pass should work differently.)
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"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

wriddle082

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Re: SunPass query as to residents of E-ZPass states
« Reply #92 on: February 26, 2020, 06:11:07 PM »

On 1/21 I drove the Turnpike southbound from Ft. Pierce to FL 823 (Red Rd) in Miramar.  On 1/24 I went westbound on Alligator Alley, and on 1/26 I went eastbound.  Then on 1/31 I drove all of the Sawgrass northbound and then the Turnpike northbound from Sawgrass to Ft Pierce.  Before and after those dates, my NCQP account has transactions from the Midtown Tunnel, Downtown Tunnel, and Dominion Blvd in the Hampton Roads area.  FTE should have charged my NCQP account around $30 for all of those transactions by now, since the oldest is now over a month old.  Since I was driving a company vehicle using my personal transponder, I might have to contact my company’s fleet manager and see if they have received any sort of “bill by plate” bill from FTE, since it won’t come to my house.  I think I’m gonna go that route before I contact FTE on my own.

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