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Double Yellow Lines

Started by US 41, June 21, 2014, 07:50:46 PM

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KEK Inc.

Quote from: jake on July 10, 2014, 06:47:10 PM
Quote from: KEK Inc. on July 10, 2014, 12:45:35 AM
South of Anacortes, WA, on SR-20, the wide-spaced WSDOT double yellow gets filled to a very thick single solid yellow line at turns where a left turn isn't permitted.  There's signs that indicate a left turn is illegal through thick yellow line (I don't recall the exact nomenclature). 

Unfortunately, street view shows the area before construction was done.

Same story along 99 south of Federal Way. Solid line for just a little while as the speed limit ups to 50 w/o a center lane.

That GSMV link above shows the solid 18-inch line.

Definitely useful if ROW is limited, but it's not necessary if you have the space.   It's (or hopefully is) common knowledge that it's illegal to cross or turn on a quadruple yellow (or 2 sets of double-yellows). 
Take the road less traveled.


cl94

Quote from: KEK Inc. on July 28, 2014, 12:19:49 AM
Quote from: jake on July 10, 2014, 06:47:10 PM
Quote from: KEK Inc. on July 10, 2014, 12:45:35 AM
South of Anacortes, WA, on SR-20, the wide-spaced WSDOT double yellow gets filled to a very thick single solid yellow line at turns where a left turn isn't permitted.  There's signs that indicate a left turn is illegal through thick yellow line (I don't recall the exact nomenclature). 

Unfortunately, street view shows the area before construction was done.

Same story along 99 south of Federal Way. Solid line for just a little while as the speed limit ups to 50 w/o a center lane.

That GSMV link above shows the solid 18-inch line.

Definitely useful if ROW is limited, but it's not necessary if you have the space.   It's (or hopefully is) common knowledge that it's illegal to cross or turn on a quadruple yellow (or 2 sets of double-yellows).

Not everywhere. New York and a few other places use a quadruple yellow on surface roads when the median is too narrow for a center turn lane but too wide for a plain double yellow. They're being phased out as highways are rebuilt and widened to include a center turn lane. Here, at least, a quadruple yellow is equivalent to two sets of double yellows separated by cross-hatching. Not a turn lane, but legal to cross.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

roadfro

Quote from: cl94 on July 28, 2014, 08:47:35 AM
Quote from: KEK Inc. on July 28, 2014, 12:19:49 AM
Definitely useful if ROW is limited, but it's not necessary if you have the space.   It's (or hopefully is) common knowledge that it's illegal to cross or turn on a quadruple yellow (or 2 sets of double-yellows).

Not everywhere. New York and a few other places use a quadruple yellow on surface roads when the median is too narrow for a center turn lane but too wide for a plain double yellow. They're being phased out as highways are rebuilt and widened to include a center turn lane. Here, at least, a quadruple yellow is equivalent to two sets of double yellows separated by cross-hatching. Not a turn lane, but legal to cross.

Double-double yellow lines with hatching in between is better known as a painted median. Since it's a median, you should not cross over or on that area at any time. Even without the two sets of double yellow lines, the cross-hatching alone indicates an area not to be driven on.
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.

myosh_tino

Quote from: roadfro on July 30, 2014, 10:54:37 PM
Quote from: cl94 on July 28, 2014, 08:47:35 AM
Quote from: KEK Inc. on July 28, 2014, 12:19:49 AM
Definitely useful if ROW is limited, but it's not necessary if you have the space.   It's (or hopefully is) common knowledge that it's illegal to cross or turn on a quadruple yellow (or 2 sets of double-yellows).

Not everywhere. New York and a few other places use a quadruple yellow on surface roads when the median is too narrow for a center turn lane but too wide for a plain double yellow. They're being phased out as highways are rebuilt and widened to include a center turn lane. Here, at least, a quadruple yellow is equivalent to two sets of double yellows separated by cross-hatching. Not a turn lane, but legal to cross.

Double-double yellow lines with hatching in between is better known as a painted median. Since it's a median, you should not cross over or on that area at any time. Even without the two sets of double yellow lines, the cross-hatching alone indicates an area not to be driven on.

In California, the cross-hatching isn't necessary for a painted median.  A set of double-double yellow lines is all that is needed.
Quote from: golden eagle
If I owned a dam and decided to donate it to charity, would I be giving a dam? I'm sure that might be a first because no one really gives a dam.

cl94

#54
Quote from: roadfro on July 30, 2014, 10:54:37 PM
Quote from: cl94 on July 28, 2014, 08:47:35 AM
Quote from: KEK Inc. on July 28, 2014, 12:19:49 AM
Definitely useful if ROW is limited, but it's not necessary if you have the space.   It's (or hopefully is) common knowledge that it's illegal to cross or turn on a quadruple yellow (or 2 sets of double-yellows).

Not everywhere. New York and a few other places use a quadruple yellow on surface roads when the median is too narrow for a center turn lane but too wide for a plain double yellow. They're being phased out as highways are rebuilt and widened to include a center turn lane. Here, at least, a quadruple yellow is equivalent to two sets of double yellows separated by cross-hatching. Not a turn lane, but legal to cross.

Double-double yellow lines with hatching in between is better known as a painted median. Since it's a median, you should not cross over or on that area at any time. Even without the two sets of double yellow lines, the cross-hatching alone indicates an area not to be driven on.

I know what it means. I also know how it's treated in New York. It's okay to cross it. I know of a few municipalities that paint lines instead of properly striping a center turn lane in this state and the signage instructs one to treat them as such. The county-maintained section of NY 254 is a pretty good example of this. Until VERY recently, Warren County standard was to cross-hatch center turn lanes. Such a section on CR 7 was recently restriped in the proper fashion, but that on NY 254 remains. Very few of the breaks in the paint actually have room for anything other than a compact car to make a U-turn without going off the road and the road network doesn't make one easy, especially because trucks are banned from all but 5 intersecting roads between US 9 and NY 32.

New York standard for a 4 lane road used to be two sets of double yellows separated by 4' of white fill. U-turns are legal out here, but I've never seen a cop ticket someone for crossing a flush median to make a left turn. US 9 in Saratoga County formerly had such a setup. The highway was too narrow for a U-turn at any intersection. Then again, you rarely see them in this state anymore, but common practice is to treat it as a turn lane. I can't find anything in State Highway Law that states otherwise and they certainly didn't mention it in the driver's manual or driver's ed. If New York doesn't want you to turn, they put up a sign or raise the median. If going across 2 double yellows is illegal, they certainly don't enforce it anywhere I've been in this state.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

doorknob60

#55
Quote from: roadfro on July 30, 2014, 10:54:37 PM
Quote from: cl94 on July 28, 2014, 08:47:35 AM
Quote from: KEK Inc. on July 28, 2014, 12:19:49 AM
Definitely useful if ROW is limited, but it's not necessary if you have the space.   It's (or hopefully is) common knowledge that it's illegal to cross or turn on a quadruple yellow (or 2 sets of double-yellows).

Not everywhere. New York and a few other places use a quadruple yellow on surface roads when the median is too narrow for a center turn lane but too wide for a plain double yellow. They're being phased out as highways are rebuilt and widened to include a center turn lane. Here, at least, a quadruple yellow is equivalent to two sets of double yellows separated by cross-hatching. Not a turn lane, but legal to cross.

Double-double yellow lines with hatching in between is better known as a painted median. Since it's a median, you should not cross over or on that area at any time. Even without the two sets of double yellow lines, the cross-hatching alone indicates an area not to be driven on.

I'm pretty sure it's legal to cross the double double yellows for the handful of businesses and residences along US-97 between Bend and Redmond: https://www.google.com/maps/@44.195481,-121.232819,3a,75y,27.4h,74.98t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sq5ELbu4UHwEc9nWhTf4pvw!2e0?hl=en

If it's not de jure legal, it certainly is de facto (as in, nobody thinks it's illegal and it's not enforced).

EDIT: But at the same time, you have stuff like this: https://www.google.com/maps/@44.198737,-121.230624,3a,75y,154.13h,61.52t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sS3uScfcbSU3UmR-xHcLMww!2e0?hl=en This was installed on private property and was clearly not put up by ODOT, Deschutes County, or the city of Redmond, but maybe ODOT forced them too? Who knows. There's also a Do Not Enter Sign (also not made by ODOT, the county or the city) for potential northbound left turners...

In my opinion, this whole stretch of highway needs a median, frontage roads for business access, a grade separated intersection at 61st St. (which could restore access to the now blocked off northern section of Deschutes Market Rd.) and a 70+ MPH speed limit, but that's never gonna happen...

KEK Inc.

#56
I'm sure the painted median law is rarely enforced.  Only makes sense to strictly enforce it in an area that has a case history of accidents.  Undertaking (passing someone on the right lane) in low-to-moderate traffic is technically illegal, but I've never heard of anyone getting ticketed for that. 
Take the road less traveled.

freebrickproductions

A lot of roads up on Monte Sano Mountain that still have single yellow lines.
Everywhere else in Huntsville uses in double yellow lines, but I remember some faint single yellow lines in a neighborhood behind my church.
It's all fun & games until someone summons Cthulhu and brings about the end of the world.

I also collect traffic lights, road signs, fans, and railroad crossing equipment.

(They/Them)

jeffandnicole

Quote from: doorknob60 on August 07, 2014, 03:18:18 AM
Quote from: roadfro on July 30, 2014, 10:54:37 PM
Quote from: cl94 on July 28, 2014, 08:47:35 AM
Quote from: KEK Inc. on July 28, 2014, 12:19:49 AM
Definitely useful if ROW is limited, but it's not necessary if you have the space.   It's (or hopefully is) common knowledge that it's illegal to cross or turn on a quadruple yellow (or 2 sets of double-yellows).

Not everywhere. New York and a few other places use a quadruple yellow on surface roads when the median is too narrow for a center turn lane but too wide for a plain double yellow. They're being phased out as highways are rebuilt and widened to include a center turn lane. Here, at least, a quadruple yellow is equivalent to two sets of double yellows separated by cross-hatching. Not a turn lane, but legal to cross.

Double-double yellow lines with hatching in between is better known as a painted median. Since it's a median, you should not cross over or on that area at any time. Even without the two sets of double yellow lines, the cross-hatching alone indicates an area not to be driven on.

I'm pretty sure it's legal to cross the double double yellows for the handful of businesses and residences along US-97 between Bend and Redmond: https://www.google.com/maps/@44.195481,-121.232819,3a,75y,27.4h,74.98t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sq5ELbu4UHwEc9nWhTf4pvw!2e0?hl=en

If it's not de jure legal, it certainly is de facto (as in, nobody thinks it's illegal and it's not enforced).

Such a law would be a state-specific law.  NJ doesn't have such a law.  It's quite common to cross a hatched type line to get to a driveway/street on the opposing side of the road.

Quote from: KEK Inc. on August 07, 2014, 04:55:40 AM
I'm sure the painted median law is rarely enforced.  Only makes sense to strictly enforce it in an area that has a case history of accidents.  Undertaking (passing someone on the right lane) in low-to-moderate traffic is technically illegal, but I've never heard of anyone getting ticketed for that. 

Also state specific.  NJ has a law that clearly allows passing in any travel lane.  But...passing a left turning vehicle on the shoulder is different: That is NOT permitted in NJ, while it is permitted in other states.

Brandon

Quote from: KEK Inc. on July 28, 2014, 12:19:49 AM
Quote from: jake on July 10, 2014, 06:47:10 PM
Quote from: KEK Inc. on July 10, 2014, 12:45:35 AM
South of Anacortes, WA, on SR-20, the wide-spaced WSDOT double yellow gets filled to a very thick single solid yellow line at turns where a left turn isn't permitted.  There's signs that indicate a left turn is illegal through thick yellow line (I don't recall the exact nomenclature). 

Unfortunately, street view shows the area before construction was done.

Same story along 99 south of Federal Way. Solid line for just a little while as the speed limit ups to 50 w/o a center lane.

That GSMV link above shows the solid 18-inch line.

Definitely useful if ROW is limited, but it's not necessary if you have the space.   It's (or hopefully is) common knowledge that it's illegal to cross or turn on a quadruple yellow (or 2 sets of double-yellows). 

Since when?  In most states, such as Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Michigan, Wisconsin, etc, a quadruple yellow line means the same as a double yellow line.  It's just to keep the streams of traffic more separated, but you can turn left across it.
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton, "Game of Thrones"

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myosh_tino

Quote from: Brandon on August 07, 2014, 11:06:49 AM
Quote from: KEK Inc. on July 28, 2014, 12:19:49 AM
Definitely useful if ROW is limited, but it's not necessary if you have the space.   It's (or hopefully is) common knowledge that it's illegal to cross or turn on a quadruple yellow (or 2 sets of double-yellows). 

Since when?  In most states, such as Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Michigan, Wisconsin, etc, a quadruple yellow line means the same as a double yellow line.  It's just to keep the streams of traffic more separated, but you can turn left across it.

While I understand that the law varies state-to-state, there is something to the "common knowledge" argument.  I, personally, would not do things like cross double double-yellow lines or make right turns on a red arrow because by not doing so, I'm eliminating the risk of getting a ticket if such an action is illegal.

Quote from: golden eagle
If I owned a dam and decided to donate it to charity, would I be giving a dam? I'm sure that might be a first because no one really gives a dam.

KEK Inc.

In Washington, driver's ed teaches you not to cross a double double-yellow.   Right on red arrow after stop is allowed in Washington unless there's a regulatory sign prohibiting such action, but it's illegal in California. 
Take the road less traveled.

cl94

Quote from: Brandon on August 07, 2014, 11:06:49 AM
Quote from: KEK Inc. on July 28, 2014, 12:19:49 AM
Quote from: jake on July 10, 2014, 06:47:10 PM
Quote from: KEK Inc. on July 10, 2014, 12:45:35 AM
South of Anacortes, WA, on SR-20, the wide-spaced WSDOT double yellow gets filled to a very thick single solid yellow line at turns where a left turn isn't permitted.  There's signs that indicate a left turn is illegal through thick yellow line (I don't recall the exact nomenclature). 

Unfortunately, street view shows the area before construction was done.

Same story along 99 south of Federal Way. Solid line for just a little while as the speed limit ups to 50 w/o a center lane.

That GSMV link above shows the solid 18-inch line.

Definitely useful if ROW is limited, but it's not necessary if you have the space.   It's (or hopefully is) common knowledge that it's illegal to cross or turn on a quadruple yellow (or 2 sets of double-yellows). 

Since when?  In most states, such as Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Michigan, Wisconsin, etc, a quadruple yellow line means the same as a double yellow line.  It's just to keep the streams of traffic more separated, but you can turn left across it.

Completely agree. By that logic, one is saying that they can't turn into a driveway located immediately before a left turn lane on a residential road because of the 2 sets of double yellows outlining the buffer zone. There is nowhere in the Northeast where such a move is illegal unless there is some form of barrier separating the opposing lanes or a sign telling one otherwise. It might be that way on the west coast, but it certainly isn't on the tight, congested roads of the northeast.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

Jerseyman4

QuoteThis must be either extremely rare or a practice which has all but disappeared in recent years, because in 25 years of living in PA (and about a decade driving all throughout the state), I don't recall ever seeing a single line, even on the most remote rural roads. (Except, as was mentioned, occasionally in suburban housing developments and shopping centers where the private developer was likely responsible for construction.)

I have noticed municipal roads in middle Bucks County (I believe in Solebury), use single yellow lines.

mb2001

Near me they recently (in the last 2-3 wks) replaced most of the single yellow lines with doubles. Before that, most non-major roads had single yellow lines.

yand

It seems to me that double yellow lines create a bit of safety by increasing the separation of oncoming traffic
I make videos for Full Length Interstates. FullLengthInterstates.com redirects to my channel at youtube.com/FullLengthInterstates

roadman

Quote from: Arkansastravelguy on June 21, 2014, 11:39:35 PM
I've seen single yellow lines in Pennsylvania and Massachusetts.


iPhone
Single yellow center lines are still commonplace on local streets in many communities in Massachusetts.
"And ninety-five is the route you were on.  It was not the speed limit sign."  - Jim Croce (from Speedball Tucker)

"My life has been a tapestry
Of years of roads and highway signs" (with apologies to Carole King and Tom Rush)

US 89

Quote from: cl94 on August 07, 2014, 06:09:27 PM
Quote from: Brandon on August 07, 2014, 11:06:49 AM
Quote from: KEK Inc. on July 28, 2014, 12:19:49 AM
Definitely useful if ROW is limited, but it's not necessary if you have the space.   It's (or hopefully is) common knowledge that it's illegal to cross or turn on a quadruple yellow (or 2 sets of double-yellows). 

Since when?  In most states, such as Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Michigan, Wisconsin, etc, a quadruple yellow line means the same as a double yellow line.  It's just to keep the streams of traffic more separated, but you can turn left across it.

Completely agree. By that logic, one is saying that they can't turn into a driveway located immediately before a left turn lane on a residential road because of the 2 sets of double yellows outlining the buffer zone. There is nowhere in the Northeast where such a move is illegal unless there is some form of barrier separating the opposing lanes or a sign telling one otherwise. It might be that way on the west coast, but it certainly isn't on the tight, congested roads of the northeast.


Based on my quick read of Utah traffic law, this movement appears to be illegal there as well (not that anybody actually follows this):

Quote from: 41-6a-713.  Driving over gore area or island prohibited -- Exceptions -- Penalties.
(1)(a)   A person may not operate a vehicle over, across, or within any part of a gore area or an island.

Quote from: 41-6a-102.  Definitions.
(28)   "Island" means an area between traffic lanes or at an intersection for control of vehicle movements or for pedestrian refuge designated by:
(a)   pavement markings, which may include an area designated by two solid yellow lines surrounding the perimeter of the area;
(b)   channelizing devices;
(c)   curbs;
(d)   pavement edges; or
(e)   other devices.

capt.ron

Regarding double yellow lines, does anyone pay attention to the spacing of double yellow lines, not only the width of said lines but also the spacing between them? Arkansas tend to have wide spacing between the yellow lines, and the newer lines tend to be even fatter and even wider spacing. This goes for state highways; county highways follow the same spacing on some roads.
Texas also has wide spacing, except for the double-double yellow in which they're narrow (like when a 4 lane highway narrows down to 2 lanes, for example).
Georgia has narrow yellow lines with a narrow space between them.
California is the same, but they have a black line in between the 2 double yellows.
Alabama is slightly wider than Georgia.
Oklahoma's double yellows look slightly more narrow than Arkansas, but not by much.
New Mexico's are wide like Arkansas'
Arizona's are somewhere between New Mexico and California.

jakeroot

Quote from: capt.ron on May 31, 2020, 02:24:02 PM
Regarding double yellow lines, does anyone pay attention to the spacing of double yellow lines, not only the width of said lines but also the spacing between them?

I've been keeping track of this as well. Seems that individual cities do whatever they want, at least around here, but here's my observations for state/provincial routes:

* Both Washington and Oregon use a wider double yellow spacing. Example from WA; example from OR.

* In California and British Columbia (on roads with double instead of single yellow lines), a narrower spacing is used. Example from CA; example from BC.

I've not really paid attention to the nuances beyond the spacing between the two yellow lines, such as the width of the yellow lines and whether any contrasting is used between them.

kphoger

Here is the spacing that was used in Minnesota on the new US-12 two-lane freeway, back before they put a median down the length of the whole thing.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.


kphoger

This sort of spacing is somewhat common in Mexico.

Another example here.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

roadfro

Quote from: jakeroot on May 31, 2020, 04:18:46 PM
* Both Washington and Oregon use a wider double yellow spacing. Example from WA; example from OR.

I've gotten the impression that wider spacings like this are a remnant of older striping patterns from back before the MUTCD formalized and standardized the yellow centerline striping patterns.

Some states used white broken lines as the center marking, but would have solid yellow lines on either side to indicate no passing (I've seen reference to this on old Nevada DOH maps). So you could have three closely-spaced lines down the center. Double yellow becomes the new norm? Cool, just eliminate the broken white in the middle.

Quote from: kphoger on June 01, 2020, 08:58:46 AM
Here is the spacing that was used in Minnesota on the new US-12 two-lane freeway, back before they put a median down the length of the whole thing.

Never seen such wide stripe spacing in the US before. Almost wide enough for a bike lane. Gotta wonder if that was accidental, intentional to increase spacing between directions (I see double center rumble strips were installed later), or if they were pre-planning for the eventual jersey barrier all along...
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.

kphoger

Quote from: roadfro on June 01, 2020, 12:15:46 PM

Quote from: kphoger on June 01, 2020, 08:58:46 AM
Here is the spacing that was used in Minnesota on the new US-12 two-lane freeway, back before they put a median down the length of the whole thing.

Never seen such wide stripe spacing in the US before. Almost wide enough for a bike lane. Gotta wonder if that was accidental, intentional to increase spacing between directions (I see double center rumble strips were installed later), or if they were pre-planning for the eventual jersey barrier all along...

It's been years now, but I don't recall seeing any mention of adding a barrier in the original plans.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.



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