Speed Enforcement in Virginia

[hbelkins]

I'm not sure how it is in other states, but in Kentucky, driving with a BAC of 0.08 is considered illegal in and of itself, no matter how intoxicated you are. And for those under 21, having a BAC of 0.02 is illegal, again with no specified level of intoxication.

[Beltway]

Makes sense. Reckless should be 15+ over the posted speed. The current 80 mph reckless limit can be abused by law enforcement in 70mph zones.

Not if the driver doesn't abuse their speedometer, or doesn't know how to control his car.

[sprjus4]

Driving fast isn't "reckless" . It's reckless when you're weaving in and out of lanes, tailgating, road rage, etc. If you get onto an empty highway and drive 82 mph in a 70 mph, you're not being reckless. You're certainly speeding, but that does -not- warrant a reckless charge.

Some states don't have a defined limit for reckless, rather it's based on driver behavior overall. If you're doing 83 mph, tailgating, weaving in and out of lanes, then it's reckless. But if you're doing 83 mph with a flow of traffic, you're not driving recklessly. You're speeding, but not driving recklessly.

Any way you slice it.

[Beltway]

Driving fast isn't "reckless" . It's reckless when you're weaving in and out of lanes, tailgating, road rage, etc.

So driving at 70 mph on Broad Street isn't reckless?

Driving at 120 mph on Chippenham Parkway isn't reckless?

Most drivers couldn't handle anywhere near those speeds on those roads.

[Alps]

Driving fast isn't "reckless" . It's reckless when you're weaving in and out of lanes, tailgating, road rage, etc.

So driving at 70 mph on Broad Street isn't reckless?

Driving at 120 mph on Chippenham Parkway isn't reckless?

Most drivers couldn't handle anywhere near those speeds on those roads.

Back on topic, please. This isn't MTR and Judy Diarea.

[Beltway]

The spelling is -- diarrhea.

[sprjus4]

Driving fast isn't "reckless" . It's reckless when you're weaving in and out of lanes, tailgating, road rage, etc.

So driving at 70 mph on Broad Street isn't reckless?

Driving at 120 mph on Chippenham Parkway isn't reckless?

Most drivers couldn't handle anywhere near those speeds on those roads.

Bad examples. Doing 82 mph on a rural interstate highway is -not- reckless, and in many states is legal or just 2-7 mph over the speed limit.

The 20 mph threshold is still reasonable, and that would be well exceeding it on those roads.

[AlexandriaVA]

"Reckless" is whatever the legislature says it is.

[Beltway]

Bad examples.

Did you see what Alps said 7 hours ago? ?

[1995hoo]

I don't think those are truly bad examples, and I think my comment will tie it to the overall issue in such a way that it won't run afoul of Alps's admonition.

It seems to me that someone who drives 70 mph in a 25-mph zone is most likely acting with intentional disregard for the safety of himself or other people. I remember an incident maybe 15 years ago or so in my community where a high school girl crashed her car into a brick "neighborhood entrance wall" (essentially a decorative architectural feature seen at the entrance to each neighborhood within the larger Kingstowne community). She was apparently going 75 mph on Kingstowne Village Parkway, a 35-mph four-lane divided street through a residential area that isn't a particularly straight line, and she lost control of her car going around one of the sharper curves. I think a reckless driving charge is completely justified in that situation even if she doesn't crash. In a residential area, you can expect there to be pedestrians on the sidewalk, kids riding bikes, the possibility of a ball rolling out into the street or a dog acting unpredictably, etc. Most of those things do not normally apply out on the Interstate.

Long way of saying, I do think it's reasonable for there to be a distinction between different types of roads when considering what constitutes reckless driving. Ridiculously excessive speed might be enough in a residential area, but I don't think it should be enough, absent other circumstances, on most Interstate-grade highways. ("Absent other circumstances" is intended to recognize that traffic, weather, etc. all might mean that in some situations a speed may be inappropriate even though it's not really a problem in other circumstances. Work zones are another such situation, especially when there are sudden lane shifts, old lane markings that weren't removed, etc.)

[AlexandriaVA]

I don't think those are truly bad examples, and I think my comment will tie it to the overall issue in such a way that it won't run afoul of Alps's admonition.

It seems to me that someone who drives 70 mph in a 25-mph zone is most likely acting with intentional disregard for the safety of himself or other people. I remember an incident maybe 15 years ago or so in my community where a high school girl crashed her car into a brick "neighborhood entrance wall" (essentially a decorative architectural feature seen at the entrance to each neighborhood within the larger Kingstowne community). She was apparently going 75 mph on Kingstowne Village Parkway, a 35-mph four-lane divided street through a residential area that isn't a particularly straight line, and she lost control of her car going around one of the sharper curves. I think a reckless driving charge is completely justified in that situation even if she doesn't crash. In a residential area, you can expect there to be pedestrians on the sidewalk, kids riding bikes, the possibility of a ball rolling out into the street or a dog acting unpredictably, etc. Most of those things do not normally apply out on the Interstate.

Long way of saying, I do think it's reasonable for there to be a distinction between different types of roads when considering what constitutes reckless driving. Ridiculously excessive speed might be enough in a residential area, but I don't think it should be enough, absent other circumstances, on most Interstate-grade highways. ("Absent other circumstances" is intended to recognize that traffic, weather, etc. all might mean that in some situations a speed may be inappropriate even though it's not really a problem in other circumstances. Work zones are another such situation, especially when there are sudden lane shifts, old lane markings that weren't removed, etc.)

The problem is everyone will claim that their speeding is "fast but safe". An explicit threshold, much like the legal limit for BAC with respect to DUI, removes that argument.

[sprjus4]

Anything over 85 mph on a rural interstate highway is certainly getting into reckless territory, but 80 mph is still well within reason. The proposed increase would bring the law closer to reality.

For example, I don't have an issue driving 82 mph, though I wouldn't be comfortable drive any faster if a road is 70 mph or 75 mph.

When I've taken the 85 mph TX-130 toll road near Austin, the most I'll get up to is around 88 mph, maybe 90 mph, but no faster. The speed limit is perfectly reasonable, and the road is designed for such.

[1995hoo]

I don't think those are truly bad examples, and I think my comment will tie it to the overall issue in such a way that it won't run afoul of Alps's admonition.

It seems to me that someone who drives 70 mph in a 25-mph zone is most likely acting with intentional disregard for the safety of himself or other people. I remember an incident maybe 15 years ago or so in my community where a high school girl crashed her car into a brick "neighborhood entrance wall" (essentially a decorative architectural feature seen at the entrance to each neighborhood within the larger Kingstowne community). She was apparently going 75 mph on Kingstowne Village Parkway, a 35-mph four-lane divided street through a residential area that isn't a particularly straight line, and she lost control of her car going around one of the sharper curves. I think a reckless driving charge is completely justified in that situation even if she doesn't crash. In a residential area, you can expect there to be pedestrians on the sidewalk, kids riding bikes, the possibility of a ball rolling out into the street or a dog acting unpredictably, etc. Most of those things do not normally apply out on the Interstate.

Long way of saying, I do think it's reasonable for there to be a distinction between different types of roads when considering what constitutes reckless driving. Ridiculously excessive speed might be enough in a residential area, but I don't think it should be enough, absent other circumstances, on most Interstate-grade highways. ("Absent other circumstances" is intended to recognize that traffic, weather, etc. all might mean that in some situations a speed may be inappropriate even though it's not really a problem in other circumstances. Work zones are another such situation, especially when there are sudden lane shifts, old lane markings that weren't removed, etc.)

The problem is everyone will claim that their speeding is "fast but safe". An explicit threshold, much like the legal limit for BAC with respect to DUI, removes that argument.

I don't think it removes the argument at all. It's very obvious things the government told us were unsafe are in fact not unsafe. Remember how for years they claimed the 55-mph speed limit was for our safety and that it was too dangerous to go faster than that? Yet some of the same roads that used to be posted at 55 are now posted (in Virginia) at up to 70 mph (some other states obviously have higher limits). You can't expect me to accept that it was inherently unsafe to exceed 55 mph on I-66 between Haymarket and I-81 when the same road, with basically no changes other than perhaps a resurfacing at some point, is now posted at 70.

Essentially, your argument sounds to me a lot like the argument that "if it's the law, it must be right." Obviously, there are plenty of examples throughout history of bad laws that no rational person nowadays would defend as being "right." If instead what you are trying to say is that you believe it's reasonable for the General Assembly to set some hard number in order to deter the hard-core speeders, I can agree with the general concept behind that argument while disagreeing that a blanket "81 mph equals reckless" standard is justified on all highways. I view the overall principle of 20 mph over the limit being the threshold as being more reasonable than "20 over or in excess of 80, the latter regardless of the posted speed limit."

[Alps]

The spelling is -- diarrhea.

Not the way "she" spelled it.

[jeffandnicole]

For what it's worth, in NJ 30 mph over the limit can get you a careless driving ticket.  40 mph over is reckless driving and a mandatory court appearance. So that makes it 105 in a 65.  And while you an argue that some roads are under posted, it's hard to find an example where they're under posted by 30 or 40 mph.

Anything over 85 mph on a rural interstate highway is certainly getting into reckless territory, but 80 mph is still well within reason. The proposed increase would bring the law closer to reality.

How do you go from 80 being well within reason, then 5 mph later being reckless?

Does that mean in a 75 mph state 10 over is reckless?

Does that mean in an 80 mph state 5 over is reckless?

Does that mean on the 85 mph roadway in Texas, driving the speed limit is also reckless?

[kphoger]

Anything over 85 mph on a rural interstate highway is certainly getting into reckless territory

...

When I've taken the 85 mph TX-130 toll road near Austin, the most I'll get up to is around 88 mph, maybe 90 mph, but no faster.

By your own admission, that was reckless driving.  Unless, that is, anything over 85 mph on a rural non-interstate highway is not certainly getting into reckless territory.

I find it utterly ridiculous to know that a speed that's perfectly legal on a freeway in one state is considered absolutely reckless by law on any rural freeway in another state.

[sprjus4]

Anything over 85 mph on a rural interstate highway is certainly getting into reckless territory

...

When I've taken the 85 mph TX-130 toll road near Austin, the most I'll get up to is around 88 mph, maybe 90 mph, but no faster.

By your own admission, that was reckless driving.  Unless, that is, anything over 85 mph on a rural non-interstate highway is not certainly getting into reckless territory.

My comment was largely referring to 70 mph interstate highways designed for those speeds. For a road like TX-130, it's specifically designed for those high speeds, and is safe to drive such. If such interstate was a long straightaway, I also wouldn't call that necessarily reckless either.

Bottom line - reckless driving charges need to be accessed on not only speed, but the road conditions at the time, including roadway geometry, driver behavior, freeway vs. arterial, traffic volume, etc. Having a uniform set 81 mph or higher threshold for an automatic reckless charge isn't the way it should be approached... but that revenue though.

[sprjus4]

How do you go from 80 being well within reason, then 5 mph later being reckless?

Does that mean in a 75 mph state 10 over is reckless?

Does that mean in an 80 mph state 5 over is reckless?

Does that mean on the 85 mph roadway in Texas, driving the speed limit is also reckless?

See comments above for clarification.

Also never said it was automatically reckless, but is beginning to approach that territory.

[kphoger]

My comment was largely referring to 70 mph interstate highways designed for those speeds. For a road like TX-130, it's specifically designed for those high speeds, and is safe to drive such. If such interstate was a long straightaway, I also wouldn't call that necessarily reckless either.

What was the design speed for all Interstates in Virginia?

[sprjus4]

My comment was largely referring to 70 mph interstate highways designed for those speeds. For a road like TX-130, it's specifically designed for those high speeds, and is safe to drive such. If such interstate was a long straightaway, I also wouldn't call that necessarily reckless either.

What was the design speed for all Interstates in Virginia?

Usually 70 mph or 75 mph. I'm unaware of any segment specifically designed for 80 mph or higher engineering wise, though there are certainly segments (straightaways, large curves, etc.) that can easily handle those speeds.

[Thing 342]

In addition to a bunch of other highway-related stuff, it looks like the recently-announced HB1414 (and likely its Senate counterpart) will be bringing Speed Cameras to the state of Virginia: http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?201+sum+HB1414

The bill adopts several safety initiatives, including: (i) making it illegal to possess an open container of alcohol in a motor vehicle, (ii) requiring all passengers in a vehicle to wear safety belts and making failure to wear a safety belt a primary offense, (iii) prohibiting the use of handheld personal communication devices, (iv) establishing a speed monitoring program in highway safety corridors that uses a vehicle sensor to take a picture of a vehicle traveling more than 10 miles over the speed limit, subjecting the driver to a monetary fine, and (v) allowing localities to lower the speed limit below 25 miles per hour in business and residential districts.  The Commissioner of the Department of Motor Vehicles will establish an advisory committee to oversee education and enforcement of policies such as the seatbelt and hands-free provisions.

[LM117]

Another attempt to raise the Reckless Driving limit from 80mph to 85mph is being made.

https://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?ses=201&typ=bil&val=sb63

The Senate passed the bill yesterday.

https://wtop.com/dc-transit/2020/01/virginia-could-ditch-jail-time-for-drivers-going-81-mph-in-a-70-mph-zone/

Virginia could remove the risk of jail time for drivers who speed 81 mph in a 70 mph zone.

The Virginia Senate voted 25-14 Monday to approve a bill that would change the automatic reckless driving standard from over 80 mph to over 85 mph in a 70 mph zone.

"I've not met anyone who actually thinks that driving 11 miles over the speed limit ought to be punished by up to a year in jail and/or a $2,500 fine. Unfortunately, that's what the current law allows,"  said state Sen. David Suetterlein, R-Roanoke.

The bill would keep the standard of reckless driving for speeding 20 mph or more over the posted speed limit.

Opponents of the bill worry it will simply encourage even more speeding. Though the Senate has passed versions of the bill in previous years, those measure have died in the House.

This year, a similar House bill has been endorsed by the House Transportation Committee, but it still must be considered by the Courts of Justice Committee.

[sprjus4]

Another attempt to raise the Reckless Driving limit from 80mph to 85mph is being made.

https://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?ses=201&typ=bil&val=sb63

The Senate passed the bill yesterday.

https://wtop.com/dc-transit/2020/01/virginia-could-ditch-jail-time-for-drivers-going-81-mph-in-a-70-mph-zone/

Virginia could remove the risk of jail time for drivers who speed 81 mph in a 70 mph zone.

The Virginia Senate voted 25-14 Monday to approve a bill that would change the automatic reckless driving standard from over 80 mph to over 85 mph in a 70 mph zone.

"I've not met anyone who actually thinks that driving 11 miles over the speed limit ought to be punished by up to a year in jail and/or a $2,500 fine. Unfortunately, that's what the current law allows,"  said state Sen. David Suetterlein, R-Roanoke.

The bill would keep the standard of reckless driving for speeding 20 mph or more over the posted speed limit.

Opponents of the bill worry it will simply encourage even more speeding. Though the Senate has passed versions of the bill in previous years, those measure have died in the House.

This year, a similar House bill has been endorsed by the House Transportation Committee, but it still must be considered by the Courts of Justice Committee.

Hopefully it will properly continue and pass the House as well, but more than likely it won't.

[LM117]

Another attempt to raise the Reckless Driving limit from 80mph to 85mph is being made.

https://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?ses=201&typ=bil&val=sb63

The Senate passed the bill yesterday.

https://wtop.com/dc-transit/2020/01/virginia-could-ditch-jail-time-for-drivers-going-81-mph-in-a-70-mph-zone/

Virginia could remove the risk of jail time for drivers who speed 81 mph in a 70 mph zone.

The Virginia Senate voted 25-14 Monday to approve a bill that would change the automatic reckless driving standard from over 80 mph to over 85 mph in a 70 mph zone.

"I've not met anyone who actually thinks that driving 11 miles over the speed limit ought to be punished by up to a year in jail and/or a $2,500 fine. Unfortunately, that's what the current law allows,"  said state Sen. David Suetterlein, R-Roanoke.

The bill would keep the standard of reckless driving for speeding 20 mph or more over the posted speed limit.

Opponents of the bill worry it will simply encourage even more speeding. Though the Senate has passed versions of the bill in previous years, those measure have died in the House.

This year, a similar House bill has been endorsed by the House Transportation Committee, but it still must be considered by the Courts of Justice Committee.

Hopefully it will properly continue and pass the House as well, but more than likely it won't.

Agreed. When the last bill was killed, 3 of the delegates on that committee were lawyers, IIRC.

Criminal defense lawyers would lose a lot of easy money with this bill.

[sprjus4]

Another attempt to raise the Reckless Driving limit from 80mph to 85mph is being made.

https://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?ses=201&typ=bil&val=sb63

The Senate passed the bill yesterday.

https://wtop.com/dc-transit/2020/01/virginia-could-ditch-jail-time-for-drivers-going-81-mph-in-a-70-mph-zone/

Virginia could remove the risk of jail time for drivers who speed 81 mph in a 70 mph zone.

The Virginia Senate voted 25-14 Monday to approve a bill that would change the automatic reckless driving standard from over 80 mph to over 85 mph in a 70 mph zone.

"I've not met anyone who actually thinks that driving 11 miles over the speed limit ought to be punished by up to a year in jail and/or a $2,500 fine. Unfortunately, that's what the current law allows,"  said state Sen. David Suetterlein, R-Roanoke.

The bill would keep the standard of reckless driving for speeding 20 mph or more over the posted speed limit.

Opponents of the bill worry it will simply encourage even more speeding. Though the Senate has passed versions of the bill in previous years, those measure have died in the House.

This year, a similar House bill has been endorsed by the House Transportation Committee, but it still must be considered by the Courts of Justice Committee.

Hopefully it will properly continue and pass the House as well, but more than likely it won't.

Agreed. When the last bill was killed, 3 of the delegates on that committee were lawyers, IIRC.

Criminal defense lawyers would lose a lot of easy money with this bill.

Same reason why many oppose the elimination of car inspections. Many would loose money.