Extremely annoying things about roads and idiots driving on them

[CapeCodder]

My biggest beef is with the folks who keep their blinker on for miles; like could you turn already or what?

[Scott5114]

for no reason?

Are you saying...  keeping TheHighwayMan394 from occasionally getting annoyed isn't reason enough to annoy 85% of drivers on the road every day?

I would say almost getting into an accident because morons not understanding that RTOR is a privilege, not a right, is a little more than "occasionally getting annoyed".

Well, yeah, but you're putting the blame where it belongs, onto the morons who aren't following the rules, not advocating the abolition of RTOR.

[kphoger]

Yeah, I just figure people can't hear the blinker clicking for whatever reason.  It annoys me, but I'm gradually learning to get over it.

[Flint1979]

Nothing beats getting stuck behind a semi truck in a construction zone on an Interstate highway.

[sprjus4]

Nothing beats getting stuck behind a semi truck in a construction zone on an Interstate highway.

Had that happen once on I-85 in North Carolina, the interstate was down to 1 lane for about 15 miles, the work zone speed limit was 55 mph, and a semi was leading the group at a smooth 35 - 40 mph with no passing opportunity. Nobody was in front of them the entire time. Keep in mind, this work zone had a 12 foot lane, and at least 4 foot shoulders on both sides. It was plenty wide with room for error, it's not like it was extremely narrow with 11 foot lanes, walls on both sides with no shoulders, etc. that would naturally make a trucker want to drive slower.

If a semi is doing the speed limit or greater, it doesn't bother me (even if it's doing 55 mph and I'd otherwise be doing 60 - 65 mph, it's still acceptable). If you're going to crawl at 15 - 20 mph under the speed limit, well...

[Flint1979]

Nothing beats getting stuck behind a semi truck in a construction zone on an Interstate highway.

Had that happen once on I-85 in North Carolina, the interstate was down to 1 lane for about 15 miles, the work zone speed limit was 55 mph, and a semi was leading the group at a smooth 35 - 40 mph with no passing opportunity. Nobody was in front of them the entire time. Keep in mind, this work zone had a 12 foot lane, and at least 4 foot shoulders on both sides. It was plenty wide with room for error, it's not like it was extremely narrow with 11 foot lanes, walls on both sides with no shoulders, etc. that would naturally make a trucker want to drive slower.

If a semi is doing the speed limit or greater, it doesn't bother me (even if it's doing 55 mph and I'd otherwise be doing 60 - 65 mph, it's still acceptable). If you're going to crawl at 15 - 20 mph under the speed limit, well...

I was just on I-74 in Illinois last week and you'd go through a construction zone, then five miles later there's another construction zone, then that ends and it seemed like every five miles or so you were hitting a construction zone through most of the state. Then I-74 at the Illinois River is closed down so I had to take I-474 around Peoria which wasn't bad but still too much construction on one highway.

[kphoger]

So, for example, you would not turn right on red at this random location.

[kphoger]

So your answer is "yes":  You never turn right on red.

?

[jeffandnicole]

Seems like based on your various assessments, NTOR signage would be posted, and green cycles aren't long enough support the traffic flowing thru these intersections.

[kphoger]

Tulsa traffic does suck, though, gotta give him that.

[sprjus4]

^
If the vision is zero, let's reduce the national speed limit to 35 mph to reduce fatal crashes with camera enforcement for anybody speeding on all roads. We'll figure out how to pay for that later. Better yet, let's just ban cars.

[vdeane]

Better yet, let's just ban cars.

I would not be surprised if that is indeed the end goal of at least a few of the advocates.  Privately-owned cars and human-driven cars, at least.  Subscription-based self-driving ridesharing fleets summoned with smartphone apps and shared with other people will, of course, be allowed as a supplement to public transit and bicycling.

[renegade]

The only people who oppose turns on red don't drive.

At least I hope they don't.

[1995hoo]

^
If the vision is zero, let's reduce the national speed limit to 35 mph to reduce fatal crashes with camera enforcement for anybody speeding on all roads. We'll figure out how to pay for that later. Better yet, let's just ban cars.

Joan Claybrook, is that you?

[kphoger]

A better Tulsa example.  If the grey car in this GSV shot is turning right, what would be dangerous about doing so against the red light?

- No vehicles at all coming from the left.
- Opposing traffic has red lights.
- No pedestrians in sight.

[Ned Weasel]

I'll say this about RTOR:

If turning right on a red light after coming to a full stop was always inherently more dangerous than turning right at a stop sign, then I would be more inclined to ban it everywhere.  But be honest, is it?

Do I support RTOR prohibitions at more intersections?  Yes.  Do I support a 100% blanket RTOR prohibition?  No.

[kphoger]

If turning right on a red light after coming to a full stop was always inherently more dangerous than turning right at a stop sign, then I would be more inclined to ban it everywhere.  But be honest, is it?

Heck, just look at the difference in how Illinois and Missouri treat right turn slip lanes.

Right turn slip with stoplight control
Right turn slip with yield sign control

[1995hoo]

I tend to think some places could do with part-time restrictions on turning on red. For example, intersections in downtown business districts that experience high pedestrian volume during the workday but that empty out for the evenings and overnight could have "No Turn on Red 7:00 AM to 7:00 PM Weekdays" as the restriction, except perhaps in specific locations where the volume is higher at different hours, such as near sports arenas or the like.

[kphoger]

I tend to think some places could do with part-time restrictions on turning on red. For example, intersections in downtown business districts that experience high pedestrian volume during the workday but that empty out for the evenings and overnight could have "No Turn on Red 7:00 AM to 7:00 PM Weekdays" as the restriction, except perhaps in specific locations where the volume is higher at different hours, such as near sports arenas or the like.

Which would suck on holidays during which 80% of the workforce in that area is at home firing up the grill.

Also, I'm not sure how different 10:15 AM would really be from 8:15 PM w/r/t pedestrian traffic in such areas.

[kalvado]

Just to spray some gas on the debate: anyone against RTOR should automatically be totally against any roundabouts, since those are essentially RTOR with red light always on. 

[1995hoo]

I tend to think some places could do with part-time restrictions on turning on red. For example, intersections in downtown business districts that experience high pedestrian volume during the workday but that empty out for the evenings and overnight could have "No Turn on Red 7:00 AM to 7:00 PM Weekdays" as the restriction, except perhaps in specific locations where the volume is higher at different hours, such as near sports arenas or the like.

Which would suck on holidays during which 80% of the workforce in that area is at home firing up the grill.

....

It would, but it's better than the 24/7 no turn on red restrictions that places like DC have been trending towards.

We do have places in Northern Virginia where the no turn on red applies only during the day, though I can't think of any where it's weekdays-only. That's part of what prompted me to mention the idea. There are also a lot of them in Alexandria where the sign says "No Turn on Red When Pedestrians Are Present." That might be one way to address your issue as to holidays. (One problem I have with the concept of "holidays" as a delineator is that the workforce presence can vary greatly depending on which holiday it is, as there are some holidays that aren't observed by large segments of the private sector.)

[wanderer2575]

Just to spray some gas on the debate: anyone against RTOR should automatically be totally against any roundabouts, since those are essentially RTOR with red light always on.

No, those are a yield.  Stopping first isn't necessary if the roundabout is clear.  Whether that's safer at a particular intersection vs. always stopping first (to stridentweasel's point) is another matter.

[GaryA]

I was rather confused by some of the remarks regarding when RTOR was introduced, and so I did a little research.

ROTR was introduced in Los Angeles in 1925.  In fact, until 1929, you didn't even have to stop before turning (too many people don't even now).  It was California-wide after 1947, and other Western states followed suit. By the end of 1972, there were 13 states that allowed RTOR at any intersection unless specifically prohibited. I remember US maps and atlases with state lists that included (along with things like highway speed limits) whether you could RTOR there.

It did become much more widespread during the mid-1970s fuel embargo.

Since I grew up in California in the 60s-70s, I never thought of RTOR as something new or unusual -- it wasn't, for us.

Sources:
https://www.lamag.com/citythinkblog/citydig-the-history-of-turning-right-in-los-angeles/
https://www.cga.ct.gov/ps99/rpt/olr/htm/99-r-1021.htm

[1995hoo]

Just to spray some gas on the debate: anyone against RTOR should automatically be totally against any roundabouts, since those are essentially RTOR with red light always on.

No, those are a yield. Stopping first isn't necessary if the roundabout is clear. ....

I wish more people understood that second point (applies to flashing yellow arrows, too). The failure of American drivers to signal properly doesn't help, of course.

[kphoger]

I was rather confused by some of the remarks regarding when RTOR was introduced, and so I did a little research.

ROTR was introduced in Los Angeles in 1925.  In fact, until 1929, you didn't even have to stop before turning (too many people don't even now).  It was California-wide after 1947, and other Western states followed suit. By the end of 1972, there were 13 states that allowed RTOR at any intersection unless specifically prohibited. I remember US maps and atlases with state lists that included (along with things like highway speed limits) whether you could RTOR there.

It did become much more widespread during the mid-1970s fuel embargo.

Since I grew up in California in the 60s-70s, I never thought of RTOR as something new or unusual -- it wasn't, for us.

Sources:
https://www.lamag.com/citythinkblog/citydig-the-history-of-turning-right-in-los-angeles/
https://www.cga.ct.gov/ps99/rpt/olr/htm/99-r-1021.htm

Those facts don't fit the theory, though, so they should be disregarded.