Counting Their Chickens Before They Hatch: Roads Edition

Started by planxtymcgillicuddy, April 04, 2020, 06:31:31 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

planxtymcgillicuddy

What are some instances of cities/towns/states/etc building up a highway only for the plans to change? One such example I can think of is in Illinois; several stretches of U.S. 50 feature exits and four-lane bridges, yet very little of it is actually four lanes. The abandoned bridge sections/wide ROW is because IL was banking on turning U.S. 50 into I-64 before it got its routing farther south
It's easy to be easy when you're easy...

Quote from: on_wisconsin on November 27, 2021, 02:39:12 PM
Whats a Limon, and does it go well with gin?


Max Rockatansky

Man...where would I even begin with California regarding partially started highways that never were finished?  Sure you have things like I-710 having the famous gap in Pasadena but that's tip of the iceberg.  There are so many roads just like that had a start but never ended up getting quite finished.  My favorite examples are the unfinished Trans-Sierra Highways: CA 168, CA 180, and CA 190.  CA 180 also has a segment in the Diablo Range that was long planned but never built either. 

hbelkins

That US 50 example is extreme, and it's interesting how in many cases the in-use bridges have had new rail types installed over the years, but the unused bridges have the original railings that were common in that era.

I'm aware of several places where right-of-way was graded for four lanes, but without bridges. KY 67 (the Industrial Parkway in the northeastern part of the state) and the US 52 new section in Mingo County, as well as a portion of WV 2 between Huntington and Pt. Pleasant, are the nearest ones to me.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

vdeane

This whole interchange: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6106942,-74.11174,509m/data=!3m1!1e3

The bridges have since been removed, but are visible in the 2007 street view.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

planxtymcgillicuddy

Quote from: vdeane on April 04, 2020, 09:44:04 PM
This whole interchange: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6106942,-74.11174,509m/data=!3m1!1e3

The bridges have since been removed, but are visible in the 2007 street view.

Was just reading about the Richmond Parkway earlier. I believe there's still signs for the parkway hidden in the woods and the brush not far from there or it's southern terminus at Richmond Avenue
It's easy to be easy when you're easy...

Quote from: on_wisconsin on November 27, 2021, 02:39:12 PM
Whats a Limon, and does it go well with gin?

kurumi

Is OP's question a little different from the well-known stubs and ghost ramps found in many areas?

If not, then Connecticut has a few stubs that never came to fruition, along I-84 (CT 25, SR 597, I-291 stack, SR 501, SR 503, SR 504, I-484 ... I give SR 508 a break because it gets a lot of use as a CT 4 connector); I-91 (Ring Road, East Rock Connector, SR 702, I-291), and CT 11

If so (i.e. more like "we built this road based on expectations that didn't pan out, but the road is open to traffic"), then there are fewer examples:
* SR 695 (north end of CT Turnpike); the state wanted this path for I-95, Rhode Island disagreed, and you have a connector to the state line that, without the I-95 push, possibly might not have been built, even if CT 52 (I-395) was completed as you see today.
* CT 187/189 freeway in Bloomfield. Cool, but overbuilt for those roads today. Around 1960, however, CT 9 (now 189) was planned as a radial freeway from Hartford, and this project would have been a part of it
* Hillandale Road overpass on SSR 476, Westport: this 2-lane arterial was planned to be a 4-lane parkway, and the bridge is wide enough for it: https://goo.gl/maps/apxUD3daf4WH6LPz5
* I-84 in Willimantic. It's part of US 6 now.
My first SF/horror short story collection is available: "Young Man, Open Your Winter Eye"

Scott5114

The Chickasaw Turnpike in Oklahoma is built with bridges long enough and ROW wide enough that it could easily be upgraded from two lanes to four.

There has never been a need for such a thing.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

GaryV

M-52 just north of US-12 (old US-112)
https://www.google.com/maps/place/11199-11125+M-52,+Manchester,+MI+48158/@42.0770558,-84.0137865,1257m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m13!1m7!3m6!1s0x883cf1979399bb57:0xd146d433cdecd56c!2sAdrian,+MI+49221!3b1!8m2!3d41.8975471!4d-84.0371659!3m4!1s0x883cea010f70c5e1:0x5cdf9131dee9c208!8m2!3d42.0772426!4d-84.0137107

At one time US-112 was going to be upgraded to a freeway.  Perhaps as a toll road, eventually connecting to the Indiana Toll Road near where the I-69 interchange is today.  That's one theory for why the the Toll Road makes the sharp bend northward after leaving Ohio.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: planxtymcgillicuddy on April 04, 2020, 06:31:31 PM
What are some instances of cities/towns/states/etc building up a highway only for the plans to change? One such example I can think of is in Illinois; several stretches of U.S. 50 feature exits and four-lane bridges, yet very little of it is actually four lanes. The abandoned bridge sections/wide ROW is because IL was banking on turning U.S. 50 into I-64 before it got its routing farther south

I think this is more common than many think.  A lot of it may not even be visible. A recent widening in my area was done decades after they intended on, and was different in scope thsn first designed. They were finding drainage pipes and other stuff beneath the right-of-way that they had no idea was there because of inadequate paperwork on the original design

ilpt4u

If I understand this thread correctly, would this EJ&E RR overpass of IL 56/Butterfield Rd in Warrenville apply?

https://goo.gl/maps/b9oA9Bb8j5CVng6G8

Clearly built long ago and with the idea that Butterfield would be a 4 lane divided highway at this location...oddly the 4 lane divided highway chokes down to 2 lanes just east of this RR overpass

TEG24601

OR 18 is build with an upgrade to expressway/4-lane from its current 2-lane configuration around McMinville.  It even has a few interchanges as part of it.  Unfortunately, as much as it is needed, for safety reasons Oregon needs at least 1 4-lane route to the coast, given Oregon's political leanings, I don't see it happening.  Unfortunately, I also don't see any alternatives in the pipeline, like a train to the coast or anything like that.
They said take a left at the fork in the road.  I didn't think they literally meant a fork, until plain as day, there was a fork sticking out of the road at a junction.

Revive 755

#11
Quote from: planxtymcgillicuddy on April 04, 2020, 06:31:31 PM
One such example I can think of is in Illinois; several stretches of U.S. 50 feature exits and four-lane bridges, yet very little of it is actually four lanes. The abandoned bridge sections/wide ROW is because IL was banking on turning U.S. 50 into I-64 before it got its routing farther south

Those bridges and interchanges came after I-64 when there were plans for a supplemental freeway along US 50; see this map from the Draft Environmental Impact Statement for the freeway

There is a brief section of US 50 around Flora that does have an unused second set of lanes.




There's also the Bobby E. Thompson Expressway stretch of IL 137 through the Great Lakes Naval Station.  The connection to the Amstutz Expressway in Waukegan was never built, nor was a connection west to I-94.

planxtymcgillicuddy

Quote from: Revive 755 on April 05, 2020, 12:57:35 PM
Quote from: planxtymcgillicuddy on April 04, 2020, 06:31:31 PM
One such example I can think of is in Illinois; several stretches of U.S. 50 feature exits and four-lane bridges, yet very little of it is actually four lanes. The abandoned bridge sections/wide ROW is because IL was banking on turning U.S. 50 into I-64 before it got its routing farther south

Those bridges and interchanges came after I-64 when there were plans for a supplemental freeway along US 50; see this map from the Draft Environmental Impact Statement for the freeway

There is a brief section of US 50 around Flora that does have an unused second set of lanes.




There's also the Bobby E. Thompson Expressway stretch of IL 137 through the Great Lakes Naval Station.  The connection to the Amstutz Expressway in Waukegan was never built, nor was a connection west to I-94.

IL originally wanted I-64 to be on U.S. 50 though, and I know there's a section around the IL side of Vincennes that was built to interstate grade
It's easy to be easy when you're easy...

Quote from: on_wisconsin on November 27, 2021, 02:39:12 PM
Whats a Limon, and does it go well with gin?

ilpt4u

Quote from: planxtymcgillicuddy on April 05, 2020, 02:47:57 PM
IL originally wanted I-64 to be on U.S. 50 though, and I know there's a section around the IL side of Vincennes that was built to interstate grade
Just check out this BGS in E St Louis/crediting billburmaster.com's page on I-64 in IL


What really makes that pair of Controls interesting: had I-64 followed US 50 across IL, it would go to Salem, but would not go to Mt Vernon

wanderer2575

The "hump" where I-96 is routed north of Grand River Avenue in Detroit was intended to facilitate a connection to a Davison Freeway extension that was never built:  https://goo.gl/maps/rP7CY8HRwLH4sa9XA

The massive directional interchange at I-696 and Mound Road in Warren came about because at the time I-696 was built in the 70s, the area's master plan was to reconstruct Mound Road as a freeway and reroute M-53 onto it:  https://goo.gl/maps/Dn9pHdZjg9K733P47

Not nearly as outlandish, the interchange at I-275 and South Huron Road in New Boston was intended to be the western terminus of M-2, a surface highway between I-275 and I-75 to serve as a connection between the downriver and western suburbs.  The overpass is six lanes wide and the ramps were designed to favor the expected primary movements of southbound to eastbound, and westbound to northbound.  Now, those movements service only the northern entrance of Willow Metropark:  https://goo.gl/maps/WCzrPLT2krwXNPHx8


Roadsguy

Quote from: sprjus4 on April 05, 2020, 04:03:05 PM
Quote from: Revive 755 on April 05, 2020, 12:57:35 PM
There is a brief section of US 50 around Flora that does have an unused second set of lanes.
https://www.google.com/maps/@38.651812,-88.6286436,617m/data=!3m1!1e3

This area definitely stands out as well, notably the ramp stubs on the western end.

Historic Aerials indicates that the road ended at that intersection, and that both carriageways were in use at the time. The right-turn slip ramp thing was for the US 50 traffic, and a similar smaller one exists at the intersection with Old US 50 to the south. It was some time between 1984 and 1998 that the tie-in to the west was built as just a two-lane road, and the eastbound carriageway was abandoned.
Mileage-based exit numbering implies the existence of mileage-cringe exit numbering.

hbelkins

The US 127 bypass of Jamestown, Tenn., is graded for four lanes, and the overpasses have room for four lanes beneath them, but the road is only two lanes wide.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

Finrod

Would the various urban expressways canceled by the freeway revolts of the 1960s-70s count for this?  There are quite a few of those, many of which have cleared lands and stub ramps.
Internet member since 1987.

Hate speech is a nonsense concept; the truth is hate speech to those that hate the truth.

People who use their free speech to try to silence others' free speech are dangerous fools.

amroad17

You can probably include the "Goat Path" Expressway and the unused highway around Phil Campbell, AL in this subject.

Quote from: wanderer2575 on April 05, 2020, 03:27:03 PM
The "hump" where I-96 is routed north of Grand River Avenue in Detroit was intended to facilitate a connection to a Davison Freeway extension that was never built:  https://goo.gl/maps/rP7CY8HRwLH4sa9XA

The massive directional interchange at I-696 and Mound Road in Warren came about because at the time I-696 was built in the 70s, the area's master plan was to reconstruct Mound Road as a freeway and reroute M-53 onto it:  https://goo.gl/maps/Dn9pHdZjg9K733P47

Not nearly as outlandish, the interchange at I-275 and South Huron Road in New Boston was intended to be the western terminus of M-2, a surface highway between I-275 and I-75 to serve as a connection between the downriver and western suburbs.  The overpass is six lanes wide and the ramps were designed to favor the expected primary movements of southbound to eastbound, and westbound to northbound.  Now, those movements service only the northern entrance of Willow Metropark:  https://goo.gl/maps/WCzrPLT2krwXNPHx8

Would the western end of the Toledo Highway at Telegraph Road be the connection point if South Huron was ever built east?
I don't need a GPS.  I AM the GPS! (for family and friends)

Henry

This three-way interchange at I-94 and Stony Island Avenue on the South Side of Chicago would've marked the southern terminus of I-694:

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7077912,-87.5935716,1648m/data=!3m1!1e3

On I-5 north of downtown Seattle, the Mercer Street freeway stub was to be part of a longer Bay Freeway project that never gained traction:

https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6253271,-122.3295882,511m/data=!3m1!1e3
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go! Hey Chicago, what do you say? The Cubs are gonna win today!

plain

Quote from: Scott5114 on April 05, 2020, 06:06:01 AM
The Chickasaw Turnpike in Oklahoma is built with bridges long enough and ROW wide enough that it could easily be upgraded from two lanes to four.

There has never been a need for such a thing.

And my understanding is the turnpike was also supposed to be longer, but that never happened either.

This is probably going to be the best example for this thread, along with the former I-170 in Baltimore.
Newark born, Richmond bred

CtrlAltDel

Quote from: Roadsguy on April 05, 2020, 05:58:46 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 05, 2020, 04:03:05 PM
Quote from: Revive 755 on April 05, 2020, 12:57:35 PM
There is a brief section of US 50 around Flora that does have an unused second set of lanes.
https://www.google.com/maps/@38.651812,-88.6286436,617m/data=!3m1!1e3

This area definitely stands out as well, notably the ramp stubs on the western end.

Historic Aerials indicates that the road ended at that intersection, and that both carriageways were in use at the time. The right-turn slip ramp thing was for the US 50 traffic, and a similar smaller one exists at the intersection with Old US 50 to the south. It was some time between 1984 and 1998 that the tie-in to the west was built as just a two-lane road, and the eastbound carriageway was abandoned.

What exactly was the plan here, do you think? Two parallel expressways?

Interstates clinched: 4, 57, 275 (IN-KY-OH), 465 (IN), 640 (TN), 985
State Interstates clinched: I-26 (TN), I-75 (GA), I-75 (KY), I-75 (TN), I-81 (WV), I-95 (NH)

Bitmapped

Quote from: CtrlAltDel on April 26, 2020, 04:06:24 PM
Quote from: Roadsguy on April 05, 2020, 05:58:46 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 05, 2020, 04:03:05 PM
Quote from: Revive 755 on April 05, 2020, 12:57:35 PM
There is a brief section of US 50 around Flora that does have an unused second set of lanes.
https://www.google.com/maps/@38.651812,-88.6286436,617m/data=!3m1!1e3

This area definitely stands out as well, notably the ramp stubs on the western end.

Historic Aerials indicates that the road ended at that intersection, and that both carriageways were in use at the time. The right-turn slip ramp thing was for the US 50 traffic, and a similar smaller one exists at the intersection with Old US 50 to the south. It was some time between 1984 and 1998 that the tie-in to the west was built as just a two-lane road, and the eastbound carriageway was abandoned.

What exactly was the plan here, do you think? Two parallel expressways?



I think it's an alignment problem with the HistoricAerials.com website. If you look at other areas and scroll around, you'll see roads vanish.

GenExpwy

^^^^ Yeah, it's a glitch in the Matrix. Notice that the woods on either side of the "two expressways"  are identical.



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.