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Rivian, GM and no CarPlay on Electric Vehicles

Started by ZLoth, April 09, 2023, 05:47:23 AM

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ZLoth

From 9to5Mac:

Here's why Rivian refuses to support CarPlay
QuoteSTORY
FULL ARTICLE HERE

Not like I can afford a Rivian or Tesla anyways... even if I wanted one (I don't).

From Reuters via Yahoo:

GM plans to phase out Apple CarPlay in EVs, with Google's help
QuoteGeneral Motors plans to phase out widely-used Apple CarPlay and Android Auto technologies that allow drivers to bypass a vehicle's infotainment systems, shifting instead to built-in infotainment systems developed with Google for future electric vehicles.
FULL ARTICLE HERE

It makes me wonder if Apple's price was just too high...
I'm an Engineer. That means I solve problems. Not problems like "What is beauty?", because that would fall within the purview of your conundrums of philosophy. I solve practical problems and call them "paychecks".


JoePCool14

Apple's price maybe was too high, but it also seems like a money-making scheme for them to charge for services like navigation built-in.

If my next vehicle, whenever that is, doesn't have CarPlay, I'll just get a phone mount and use that instead connected to Bluetooth/wired. CarPlay is very convenient given I use Apple Music and Apple Maps.

:) Needs more... :sombrero: Not quite... :bigass: Perfect.
JDOT: We make the world a better place to drive.
Travel Mapping | 60+ Clinches | 260+ Traveled | 8000+ Miles Logged

Max Rockatansky

CarPlay is a nice side feature on my base 2019 Impreza.  That said, I would be totally lying if I said it has any bearing on why I purchased an Impreza for a daily driver.

Duke87

I prefer the built in nav system to being dependent on a phone anyway, though if the built in nav system is just Google Maps that's both boring and bleh. Google Maps has a bad interface for this purpose - not enough contrast for easy quick reading on a car screen. Too many off-white roads on an off-white background with no borders.
If you always take the same road, you will never see anything new.

JREwing78

My sense is that GM is going to promptly regret abandoning CarPlay, and that folks won't tolerate a subscription on something that didn't require one before.

Up to them to prove us all wrong. Partnering with Google means they could well have a shot at it, particularly if it's smart enough to port over the phone apps they would've had with CarPlay already.

ZLoth

When I look at the automotive IT solution that are developed in-house, I associate it was the original iPhone which was released in January, 2007. The original iPhone came with preinstalled apps like Phone, Weather, Notes, Calendar, Photos, and Calculator, but there was no official way to install native third-party apps until the App Store launched in July 2008. Since then, the types of apps that are available in both the Android and Apple stores goes beyond what was originally envisioned in 2008.

The car manufacturers are good with the hardware portion of a vehicle, even if the technology tends to lag a little bit in the name of stability. But, for every portion of the vehicle, there is a specific "budget bucket" that is allocation to each system, and for the in-vehicle IT, it tends to be small. In that respect, Google and Apple are more likely better than the major auto manufacturers in software development, plus some of the apps that you are likely going to use will be developed by third parties within the rules laid down by Google and Apple. When you take a look at the mobile phone OS share, it's 70.93% Android and 28.37% iOS (Apple), so it will be silly for you to ignore either market. Don't like Apple Maps or Google Maps? Alternatives are available.
I'm an Engineer. That means I solve problems. Not problems like "What is beauty?", because that would fall within the purview of your conundrums of philosophy. I solve practical problems and call them "paychecks".

vdeane

What's interesting in that comparison is that Apple initially thought everything that wasn't done with built-in apps would be done with web apps.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

triplemultiplex

Bring back the good ol' fashioned aux jack.  Problem solved.
"That's just like... your opinion, man."

kalvado

Quote from: triplemultiplex on April 16, 2023, 05:48:44 PM
Bring back the good ol' fashioned aux jack.  Problem solved.
Bluetooth is pretty much as good - but not for maps...

SSOWorld

Just so you know, they're blocking Android Auto as well.
Scott O.

Not all who wander are lost...
Ah, the open skies, wind at my back, warm sun on my... wait, where the hell am I?!
As a matter of fact, I do own the road.
Raise your what?

Wisconsin - out-multiplexing your state since 1918.

kalvado

Quote from: SSOWorld on April 16, 2023, 09:02:16 PM
Just so you know, they're blocking Android Auto as well.
Either Google uses GM as guinea pig for something new, like build-in android with some support commitment; or this crap will be dead well before the car. I, for one, have such a home-brew "phone connect system" - and phone-side app had a glorious 1.8 stars on Google until they put it out of misery. 

triplemultiplex

Quote from: kalvado on April 16, 2023, 05:52:33 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on April 16, 2023, 05:48:44 PM
Bring back the good ol' fashioned aux jack.  Problem solved.
Bluetooth is pretty much as good - but not for maps...

Aux jack is easier to set up.
Plus I don't have to tell the car whether or not I want to "sync my contacts" whatever the hell that means.
"That's just like... your opinion, man."

ZLoth

Quote from: triplemultiplex on April 17, 2023, 11:24:03 AMPlus I don't have to tell the car whether or not I want to "sync my contacts" whatever the hell that means.

It's so that you can access the contact list through the screen of your car when making a call or screening a call.
I'm an Engineer. That means I solve problems. Not problems like "What is beauty?", because that would fall within the purview of your conundrums of philosophy. I solve practical problems and call them "paychecks".

kalvado

Quote from: triplemultiplex on April 17, 2023, 11:24:03 AM
Quote from: kalvado on April 16, 2023, 05:52:33 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on April 16, 2023, 05:48:44 PM
Bring back the good ol' fashioned aux jack.  Problem solved.
Bluetooth is pretty much as good - but not for maps...

Aux jack is easier to set up.
Plus I don't have to tell the car whether or not I want to "sync my contacts" whatever the hell that means.
Aux jack is a potential point of moisture entry into the phone. General trend is to have as few of those leak points as possible,,,

Rothman

Quote from: kalvado on April 17, 2023, 12:04:53 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on April 17, 2023, 11:24:03 AM
Quote from: kalvado on April 16, 2023, 05:52:33 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on April 16, 2023, 05:48:44 PM
Bring back the good ol' fashioned aux jack.  Problem solved.
Bluetooth is pretty much as good - but not for maps...

Aux jack is easier to set up.
Plus I don't have to tell the car whether or not I want to "sync my contacts" whatever the hell that means.
Aux jack is a potential point of moisture entry into the phone. General trend is to have as few of those leak points as possible,,,
Aux jack = au jus?

I like the aux jack...if only my phone had more than just a USB-C coming out of it...
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

kalvado

Quote from: Rothman on April 17, 2023, 12:25:53 PM
Quote from: kalvado on April 17, 2023, 12:04:53 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on April 17, 2023, 11:24:03 AM
Quote from: kalvado on April 16, 2023, 05:52:33 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on April 16, 2023, 05:48:44 PM
Bring back the good ol' fashioned aux jack.  Problem solved.
Bluetooth is pretty much as good - but not for maps...

Aux jack is easier to set up.
Plus I don't have to tell the car whether or not I want to "sync my contacts" whatever the hell that means.
Aux jack is a potential point of moisture entry into the phone. General trend is to have as few of those leak points as possible,,,
Aux jack = au jus?

I like the aux jack...if only my phone had more than just a USB-C coming out of it...
Well - aux jack, AM radio, tape player. carburetor, crankshaft... some of the things modern cars are missing.

triplemultiplex

I know, I have to have some stupid adapter on my phone to use my beloved aux jack.  Which of course, prevents me from charging my phone if I want to listen to tunes.  The Man is trying to force me to use Bluetooth or whatever so I have more bullshit that needs charging and is easier to lose, and then more of my delicious private data is pouring out into the universe for the ad vultures to suckle on.

I resent it mostly because of the built-in obsolescence aspect.  This wasteful feature of technology that forces us to buy new devices that do the same thing as the old one, but "newer".  Even if the old one was completely functional, sorry, that's not compatible with the new thing so screw you and your whole "get your money's worth out of something you spent a lot of money on" philosophy, Triplemultiplex!  We insist you buy a new one and just throw the old one away.  We have plenty of resources to keep doing this forever, don't think about it!
"That's just like... your opinion, man."

ZLoth

Quote from: triplemultiplex on April 19, 2023, 12:06:15 PMI know, I have to have some stupid adapter on my phone to use my beloved aux jack.  Which of course, prevents me from charging my phone if I want to listen to tunes.  The Man is trying to force me to use Bluetooth or whatever so I have more bullshit that needs charging and is easier to lose, and then more of my delicious private data is pouring out into the universe for the ad vultures to suckle on.

I resent it mostly because of the built-in obsolescence aspect.  This wasteful feature of technology that forces us to buy new devices that do the same thing as the old one, but "newer".  Even if the old one was completely functional, sorry, that's not compatible with the new thing so screw you and your whole "get your money's worth out of something you spent a lot of money on" philosophy, Triplemultiplex!  We insist you buy a new one and just throw the old one away.  We have plenty of resources to keep doing this forever, don't think about it!

Which makes me resentful of using Apple products. Apple eliminates the headphone jack in 2015, so all the phone manufacturers eliminate the aux jack. iOS support only goes back a certain number of iPhone models. Don't even get me started on how non-expandable some of the Apple computers are, or how certain components must be "blessed" by the Apple priests if they can be used.

And, BTW, there is a Bluetooth dongle that can attach to the Aux port of your radio. Cost is $20, and yes, it needs charging.
I'm an Engineer. That means I solve problems. Not problems like "What is beauty?", because that would fall within the purview of your conundrums of philosophy. I solve practical problems and call them "paychecks".

vdeane

Quote from: triplemultiplex on April 19, 2023, 12:06:15 PM
The Man is trying to force me to use Bluetooth or whatever so I have more bullshit that needs charging and is easier to lose, and then more of my delicious private data is pouring out into the universe for the ad vultures to suckle on.
Yep.  For all the phone manufacturers might try to claim things like "consumers want phone so thin that a carbon nanotube would be thicker" and "how else would we waterproof the phone unless we get rid of things that waterproofed phones had 10 years ago", THIS is the real reason.  An aux cable just sends audio to whatever it's connected to.  Anything digital (USB, Bluetooth, etc.) is actually a two-way data exchange, and not just audio.  Digital AV interfaces are used for everything from grabbing additional data to copyright enforcement.  Where this affects cars is that a lot of private phone data that people wouldn't expect, including contacts, gets shared when a phone gets connected to a car, with no way to delete this data from the car, so if you rent a car and connect your phone or sell your car, whoever has that car after you can actually grab all your phone contacts (and who knows what else).
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

kalvado

Quote from: vdeane on April 19, 2023, 01:54:32 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on April 19, 2023, 12:06:15 PM
The Man is trying to force me to use Bluetooth or whatever so I have more bullshit that needs charging and is easier to lose, and then more of my delicious private data is pouring out into the universe for the ad vultures to suckle on.
Yep.  For all the phone manufacturers might try to claim things like "consumers want phone so thin that a carbon nanotube would be thicker" and "how else would we waterproof the phone unless we get rid of things that waterproofed phones had 10 years ago", THIS is the real reason.  An aux cable just sends audio to whatever it's connected to.  Anything digital (USB, Bluetooth, etc.) is actually a two-way data exchange, and not just audio.  Digital AV interfaces are used for everything from grabbing additional data to copyright enforcement.  Where this affects cars is that a lot of private phone data that people wouldn't expect, including contacts, gets shared when a phone gets connected to a car, with no way to delete this data from the car, so if you rent a car and connect your phone or sell your car, whoever has that car after you can actually grab all your phone contacts (and who knows what else).
There is certainly a separate permission request for contact sharing when BT is connected, which you can always deny.

abefroman329

Quote from: vdeane on April 19, 2023, 01:54:32 PMWhere this affects cars is that a lot of private phone data that people wouldn't expect, including contacts, gets shared when a phone gets connected to a car, with no way to delete this data from the car, so if you rent a car and connect your phone or sell your car, whoever has that car after you can actually grab all your phone contacts (and who knows what else).
You can (and absolutely should) delete your phone from a rental car after you're done driving it, and when you sell it, a factory reset would probably wipe everything, but if not, so what?

vdeane

But does deleting your phone from the car actually delete all data associated with it, or just the automatic connection?  Computers leave old files around all the time (Windows is especially bad for this, to the point where you can never truly 100% uninstall a program, but all OSes are affected to some extent).  And is it even possible to factory reset cars?

Yes, I'm the person who securely erases the hard drive of any computer I no longer use.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.



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