New Jersey Turnpike

[ixnay]

And don't forget the demolished William Halsey service area (NB just past the current exit 13A)....

http://preview.tinyurl.com/hh88lb9

And the service plazas that faced each other on opposite sides of the Newark Bay Extension...

http://tinyurl.com/gor5zgh

ixnay

[hubcity]

Huh, I think I have a quibble with the Wikipedia entry regarding the Turnpike. In its exit list, it says the Turnpike begins at the Delaware Memorial Bridge, running concurrent with US 40 and I-295, and it regards the exit for NJ 49 as NJ Turnpike exit 1. Wouldn't that actually be I-295 Exit 1, since the Turnpike southbound (which at that point is, I agree, concurrent with both US 40 and I-295) declares mile zero immediately before then at the NJ49/US130 overpass?

I also note that the northbound NJ Turnpike is not concurrent with I-295, since it splits off from the roadway (the DRBA-maintained US 40) before it becomes the Turnpike at that overpass (also marked as DRBA-maintained mile 5.16). There's a rather pronounced pavement change at that point, too.

I'd say Turnpike Exit 1 is functionally the barrier toll, but is technically the unnumbered northbound exit where US 40 leaves the Turnpike. Southbound, it's technically the unnumbered NJ140/CR540 exit (and, functionally, it's the barrier toll.) I can understand not numbering those exits - there's another Exit 1 right near there (even though it's really I-295's exit for US130 and/or NJ 49.) I'd want Wikipedia to get that right, though.

Splitting hairs?

[jeffandnicole]

Huh, I think I have a quibble with the Wikipedia entry regarding the Turnpike. In its exit list, it says the Turnpike begins at the Delaware Memorial Bridge, running concurrent with US 40 and I-295, and it regards the exit for NJ 49 as NJ Turnpike exit 1. Wouldn't that actually be I-295 Exit 1, since the Turnpike southbound (which at that point is, I agree, concurrent with both US 40 and I-295) declares mile zero immediately before then at the NJ49/US130 overpass?

I also note that the northbound NJ Turnpike is not concurrent with I-295, since it splits off from the roadway (the DRBA-maintained US 40) before it becomes the Turnpike at that overpass (also marked as DRBA-maintained mile 5.16). There's a rather pronounced pavement change at that point, too.

I'd say Turnpike Exit 1 is functionally the barrier toll, but is technically the unnumbered northbound exit where US 40 leaves the Turnpike. Southbound, it's technically the unnumbered NJ140/CR540 exit (and, functionally, it's the barrier toll.) I can understand not numbering those exits - there's another Exit 1 right near there (even though it's really I-295's exit for US130 and/or NJ 49.) I'd want Wikipedia to get that right, though.

Splitting hairs?

Nope, you're correct on just about all accounts.  Since anyone can play with Wikipedia, somebody that really has no knowledge of the highway can go in and type up anything they want.  Unless it's locked, you are more than welcome to go in and make the changes!

When I said you're correct on just about all accounts, the only account (again, splitting hairs) is that neither the toll barrier or the 140/540 exit isn't 'Exit 1'.   The toll plaza is 'Interchange 1'.  140/540 is simply an unnumbered exit, similar to 40 being an unnumbered exit on the northbound side.

DRBA Maintenance (and their milepost numbering system) ends at that 130/49 overpass.  At that point, the NJ Turnpike begins (and 40 continues) to the left; 295 continues to the right, using milepost numbering as if MP 0.0 was signed at the NJ/DE state line on the bridge.

[bzakharin]

Huh, I think I have a quibble with the Wikipedia entry regarding the Turnpike. In its exit list, it says the Turnpike begins at the Delaware Memorial Bridge, running concurrent with US 40 and I-295, and it regards the exit for NJ 49 as NJ Turnpike exit 1. Wouldn't that actually be I-295 Exit 1, since the Turnpike southbound (which at that point is, I agree, concurrent with both US 40 and I-295) declares mile zero immediately before then at the NJ49/US130 overpass?

I also note that the northbound NJ Turnpike is not concurrent with I-295, since it splits off from the roadway (the DRBA-maintained US 40) before it becomes the Turnpike at that overpass (also marked as DRBA-maintained mile 5.16). There's a rather pronounced pavement change at that point, too.

I'd say Turnpike Exit 1 is functionally the barrier toll, but is technically the unnumbered northbound exit where US 40 leaves the Turnpike. Southbound, it's technically the unnumbered NJ140/CR540 exit (and, functionally, it's the barrier toll.) I can understand not numbering those exits - there's another Exit 1 right near there (even though it's really I-295's exit for US130 and/or NJ 49.) I'd want Wikipedia to get that right, though.

Splitting hairs?

Nope, you're correct on just about all accounts.  Since anyone can play with Wikipedia, somebody that really has no knowledge of the highway can go in and type up anything they want.  Unless it's locked, you are more than welcome to go in and make the changes!

When I said you're correct on just about all accounts, the only account (again, splitting hairs) is that neither the toll barrier or the 140/540 exit isn't 'Exit 1'.   The toll plaza is 'Interchange 1'.  140/540 is simply an unnumbered exit, similar to 40 being an unnumbered exit on the northbound side.

DRBA Maintenance (and their milepost numbering system) ends at that 130/49 overpass.  At that point, the NJ Turnpike begins (and 40 continues) to the left; 295 continues to the right, using milepost numbering as if MP 0.0 was signed at the NJ/DE state line on the bridge.

The fact that DRBA has its own mile markers, and for a rather long segment of road spanning two stated at that, has always puzzled me. Are there other instances of this happening anywhere?

[jeffandnicole]

Huh, I think I have a quibble with the Wikipedia entry regarding the Turnpike. In its exit list, it says the Turnpike begins at the Delaware Memorial Bridge, running concurrent with US 40 and I-295, and it regards the exit for NJ 49 as NJ Turnpike exit 1. Wouldn't that actually be I-295 Exit 1, since the Turnpike southbound (which at that point is, I agree, concurrent with both US 40 and I-295) declares mile zero immediately before then at the NJ49/US130 overpass?

I also note that the northbound NJ Turnpike is not concurrent with I-295, since it splits off from the roadway (the DRBA-maintained US 40) before it becomes the Turnpike at that overpass (also marked as DRBA-maintained mile 5.16). There's a rather pronounced pavement change at that point, too.

I'd say Turnpike Exit 1 is functionally the barrier toll, but is technically the unnumbered northbound exit where US 40 leaves the Turnpike. Southbound, it's technically the unnumbered NJ140/CR540 exit (and, functionally, it's the barrier toll.) I can understand not numbering those exits - there's another Exit 1 right near there (even though it's really I-295's exit for US130 and/or NJ 49.) I'd want Wikipedia to get that right, though.

Splitting hairs?

Nope, you're correct on just about all accounts.  Since anyone can play with Wikipedia, somebody that really has no knowledge of the highway can go in and type up anything they want.  Unless it's locked, you are more than welcome to go in and make the changes!

When I said you're correct on just about all accounts, the only account (again, splitting hairs) is that neither the toll barrier or the 140/540 exit isn't 'Exit 1'.   The toll plaza is 'Interchange 1'.  140/540 is simply an unnumbered exit, similar to 40 being an unnumbered exit on the northbound side.

DRBA Maintenance (and their milepost numbering system) ends at that 130/49 overpass.  At that point, the NJ Turnpike begins (and 40 continues) to the left; 295 continues to the right, using milepost numbering as if MP 0.0 was signed at the NJ/DE state line on the bridge.

The fact that DRBA has its own mile markers, and for a rather long segment of road spanning two stated at that, has always puzzled me. Are there other instances of this happening anywhere?

In a way, the NJ Turnpike is similar.  It's really 2 separate roadways, NJ 700 & I-95.

[bzakharin]

Huh, I think I have a quibble with the Wikipedia entry regarding the Turnpike. In its exit list, it says the Turnpike begins at the Delaware Memorial Bridge, running concurrent with US 40 and I-295, and it regards the exit for NJ 49 as NJ Turnpike exit 1. Wouldn't that actually be I-295 Exit 1, since the Turnpike southbound (which at that point is, I agree, concurrent with both US 40 and I-295) declares mile zero immediately before then at the NJ49/US130 overpass?

I also note that the northbound NJ Turnpike is not concurrent with I-295, since it splits off from the roadway (the DRBA-maintained US 40) before it becomes the Turnpike at that overpass (also marked as DRBA-maintained mile 5.16). There's a rather pronounced pavement change at that point, too.

I'd say Turnpike Exit 1 is functionally the barrier toll, but is technically the unnumbered northbound exit where US 40 leaves the Turnpike. Southbound, it's technically the unnumbered NJ140/CR540 exit (and, functionally, it's the barrier toll.) I can understand not numbering those exits - there's another Exit 1 right near there (even though it's really I-295's exit for US130 and/or NJ 49.) I'd want Wikipedia to get that right, though.

Splitting hairs?

Nope, you're correct on just about all accounts.  Since anyone can play with Wikipedia, somebody that really has no knowledge of the highway can go in and type up anything they want.  Unless it's locked, you are more than welcome to go in and make the changes!

When I said you're correct on just about all accounts, the only account (again, splitting hairs) is that neither the toll barrier or the 140/540 exit isn't 'Exit 1'.   The toll plaza is 'Interchange 1'.  140/540 is simply an unnumbered exit, similar to 40 being an unnumbered exit on the northbound side.

DRBA Maintenance (and their milepost numbering system) ends at that 130/49 overpass.  At that point, the NJ Turnpike begins (and 40 continues) to the left; 295 continues to the right, using milepost numbering as if MP 0.0 was signed at the NJ/DE state line on the bridge.

The fact that DRBA has its own mile markers, and for a rather long segment of road spanning two stated at that, has always puzzled me. Are there other instances of this happening anywhere?

In a way, the NJ Turnpike is similar.  It's really 2 separate roadways, NJ 700 & I-95.

It's not really the same. The DRBA is a multistate authority operating a bridge which carries I-295 which has normal mile markers outside of DRBA maintained stretch in both Delaware and NJ.

Had the Somerset Freeway been built, yes, the Turnpike would have imposed its own mileage on the stretch of I-95 it was concurrent with, with I-95 mileage resuming where the Turnpike ended, but with the current (or soon to be current) routing of I-95 over the PA Turnpike, the mileage won't add up anyway, so I-95 experiences three different and unrelated mileage systems in NJ (0-6, 51-122, and 72-75, the last only implicitly as no mile markers are actually installed there to my knowledge)

[NJRoadfan]

The northern section of I-95 in Bergen County to the GWB uses mile markers based on the main line.

Some NJDOT municipal border signs snuck in on that stretch too: https://goo.gl/maps/ruNiA4UPNXz

Has the big MUTCD signing project made its way that far north yet?

[jeffandnicole]

Well I haven't seen any other examples...thus, "In a way".

[vdeane]

The northern section of I-95 in Bergen County to the GWB uses mile markers based on the main line.

Some NJDOT municipal border signs snuck in on that stretch too: https://goo.gl/maps/ruNiA4UPNXz

Has the big MUTCD signing project made its way that far north yet?

Yes.

[storm2k]

The northern section of I-95 in Bergen County to the GWB uses mile markers based on the main line.

Some NJDOT municipal border signs snuck in on that stretch too: https://goo.gl/maps/ruNiA4UPNXz

Has the big MUTCD signing project made its way that far north yet?

Yes.

Interesting that they reused the gantry here. Guess we won't have the mix of NJTP style signage mixed with the more MUTCD signs from the PA anymore.

[bzakharin]

The northern section of I-95 in Bergen County to the GWB uses mile markers based on the main line.

I haven't seen any mile markers past 122 where the tiny "End NJ Turnpike" sign is. Are they really there beyond that point? If not, exits 72-74 are the de facto mileage on that stretch.

[NJRoadfan]

The Fletcher Ave. (US-9W) overpass is where PANYNJ jurisdiction begins. NJTPA put up a 122.03 mile marker on it anyway. PA doesn't milepost the roadways they maintain from what I can see.

NJDOT's old MILE END sign is still hanging around there!: https://goo.gl/maps/96cQzr2M52U2

Might actually be NJ-4's end come to think of it.

[SignBridge]

Isn't that a fine looking arch bridge over I-95 in the photo? Must have been expensive to build. I can't imagine what politics it took to get that included in the original design of the highway, considering it only carries a little side street named Edgewood Rd that connects the villages of Leonia and Englewood. I actually drove over it once to check it out.

[Alps]

Isn't that a fine looking arch bridge over I-95 in the photo? Must have been expensive to build. I can't imagine what politics it took to get that included in the original design of the highway, considering it only carries a little side street named Edgewood Rd that connects the villages of Leonia and Englewood. I actually drove over it once to check it out.

Can't see much from up there. It may have been the cheapest option - how else do you bridge a gap that high and wide?

[Steve D]

The northern section of I-95 in Bergen County to the GWB uses mile markers based on the main line.

Some NJDOT municipal border signs snuck in on that stretch too: https://goo.gl/maps/ruNiA4UPNXz

Has the big MUTCD signing project made its way that far north yet?

Yes.

Interesting that they reused the gantry here. Guess we won't have the mix of NJTP style signage mixed with the more MUTCD signs from the PA anymore.

They still had to capitalize "Palisades Parkway" (ugh....)!  I thought we were through with that - the new exit 11 signs have GSP without the caps.  So we're still not in a perfect new world...

[storm2k]

Signage updates:
-New signs at 13 show Elizabeth and Staten Island as destinations. Goethals and Verrazano Bridges moved to a supplemental sign. NJTA seems to really be sticking to the 2 destination max for the new signage.
-All signs over the outer roadways are on full span gantries, not cantilevers. I assume this is so they can put HOV signage over the left lane as part of the replacements.
-At both 13 and 13A, the last set of signs before the exit point (the ones that used to have the Turnpike Arrow) show NEXT RIGHT instead of 1/4 Mile as has been done everywhere else thusfar.
-Managed to grab a photo of the 2 mile approach sign for 13A to show how they're signing the airport:


Still feels too much like they're stuck inbetween with that brown box. NJDOT includes the EWR logo which makes it look more "proper" (should not be a brown box there since the airport isn't a cultural attraction, but it harkens back to the classic brown signs the airport used in the day). They should have either included the EWR logo with the brown box, or skipped the brown box and used the I-5 MUTCD standard airport icon. Hell, even their own signage at the start of NJ-81 from a few years ago gets it right.

[SignBridge]

Storm2k, the NJTA put Next Right on a new MUTCD sign???!!!! Must be a mistake. Next Right doesn't even exist in the Manual anymore. All exit signs must have distance messages and/or arrows. The option of using the words Next Right in place of the arrow on the so called "exit-direction sign" appeared in previous Manuals but not in the 2009 Edition.

And Alps re: the arch bridge, would you believe that canyon and right-of-way did not even exist before the mid-1960's? It was blasted and excavated out of the Palisades to build I-95. Must have been quite a job. 

[1995hoo]

I find it interesting that in the photo vdeane posted, the sign on the left is so verbose instead of using the term "HOV." I thought that term was ubiquitous enough nowadays that longer explanations of the sort seen here weren't needed on the main sign.

The sign reminds me of Virginia's old sign referring to buses and "4 Rider Pool Cars."

[storm2k]

Storm2k, the NJTA put Next Right on a new MUTCD sign???!!!! Must be a mistake. Next Right doesn't even exist in the Manual anymore. All exit signs must have distance messages and/or arrows. The option of using the words Next Right in place of the arrow on the so called "exit-direction sign" appeared in previous Manuals but not in the 2009 Edition.

Not sure what the deal is. All the other signs I've seen thusfar use 1/4 mile instead of Next Right. Not sure why these two are different.

[Alps]

Storm2k, the NJTA put Next Right on a new MUTCD sign???!!!! Must be a mistake. Next Right doesn't even exist in the Manual anymore. All exit signs must have distance messages and/or arrows. The option of using the words Next Right in place of the arrow on the so called "exit-direction sign" appeared in previous Manuals but not in the 2009 Edition.

Not sure what the deal is. All the other signs I've seen thusfar use 1/4 mile instead of Next Right. Not sure why these two are different.

NEXT RIGHT does still exist, in limited circumstances. KEEP RIGHT is the message that has disappeared. But NEXT RIGHT is intended for intersections, not as part of advance exit signage.

[cl94]

Storm2k, the NJTA put Next Right on a new MUTCD sign???!!!! Must be a mistake. Next Right doesn't even exist in the Manual anymore. All exit signs must have distance messages and/or arrows. The option of using the words Next Right in place of the arrow on the so called "exit-direction sign" appeared in previous Manuals but not in the 2009 Edition.

Not sure what the deal is. All the other signs I've seen thusfar use 1/4 mile instead of Next Right. Not sure why these two are different.

NEXT RIGHT does still exist, in limited circumstances. KEEP RIGHT is the message that has disappeared. But NEXT RIGHT is intended for intersections, not as part of advance exit signage.

Per Section 2E.35 (Other Supplemental Guide Signs), paragraph 3:

A Supplemental Guide sign (see Figure 2E-24) should not list more than two destinations. Destination names should be followed by the interchange number (and suffix), or if interchanges are not numbered, by the legend NEXT RIGHT or SECOND RIGHT or both, as appropriate. The Supplemental Guide sign should be installed as an independent guide sign assembly.

Other than weigh station signage, this is the only time NEXT RIGHT appears in Chapter 2E (Guide Signs - Freeways and Expressways) and, depending on how we're classifying supplementals, may be advanced signage. However, we have Section 2E.33 (Advance Guide Signs), paragraph 7:

STANDARD: Except as provided in Section 2E.24, Advance Guide signs, if used, shall contain the distance message.

In the Manual, "advance guide signs" consist solely of the route number and primary destinations. Section 2E.24 covers lane drops. A lane drop isn't applicable, so there should be a distance message. Of course, the Manual doesn't explicitly prohibit text messages, but the standard should imply that.

[roadman65]

The northern section of I-95 in Bergen County to the GWB uses mile markers based on the main line.

Some NJDOT municipal border signs snuck in on that stretch too: https://goo.gl/maps/ruNiA4UPNXz

Has the big MUTCD signing project made its way that far north yet?

Yes.

I see no more brown rust gantries as the NJTA has been using since the early 80's here.  Still, the redundant PIP text and shield are still there.  Funny that they still use the upper casing here, but left out what NJDOT had in when they owned the freeway with the US 1, 9,  & 46 shields accompanying the US 9W shield.  Considering that US 1, 9, & 46 go back to where you came it was unused baggage.

[storm2k]

The northern section of I-95 in Bergen County to the GWB uses mile markers based on the main line.

Some NJDOT municipal border signs snuck in on that stretch too: https://goo.gl/maps/ruNiA4UPNXz

Has the big MUTCD signing project made its way that far north yet?

Yes.

I see no more brown rust gantries as the NJTA has been using since the early 80's here.  Still, the redundant PIP text and shield are still there.  Funny that they still use the upper casing here, but left out what NJDOT had in when they owned the freeway with the US 1, 9,  & 46 shields accompanying the US 9W shield.  Considering that US 1, 9, & 46 go back to where you came it was unused baggage.

Any new gantries or cantilevers they put up are rusted. They've been reusing gantries here and there, I guess ones that they've determined are still in good enough shape to hold up new signs.

[roadman65]

Wow this is still left over from the NJDOT days.  Not that surprised as older ones from the 1950s have survived many years, but I thought that NJTA replaced all of them when they added their signs here nearly 20 years ago.

[storm2k]

Wow this is still left over from the NJDOT days.  Not that surprised as older ones from the 1950s have survived many years, but I thought that NJTA replaced all of them when they added their signs here nearly 20 years ago.

They replaced the majority of them around 2000 or so when they put NJTP-style signs up on that stretch and took down the non-reflective button copy NJDOT signs.