New Jersey Turnpike

[storm2k]

Here's a couple of pictures of new signs approaching 16E/18E that were recently replaced with the completion of the express E-ZPass lanes. I like these signs more than what was there before.

Do users heading for 3 now pay the 18E toll? That seems to be what the signs suggest. I don't recall if there was much difference between the 16E and 18E tolls.

There are more barriers now, so I think that they've really made it so you can't pay through the 16E lanes and then try to slide over towards 18E. Not that there were too many people doing that before, but it's definitely not really possible now. 18E is a greater toll than 16E even though the plaza is at the same point (given the further distance to the end of the official part of the Turnpike, even though they obviously own the 95 segment all the way to the GWB.

[SignBridge]

Why doesn't Route 3 appear on the first sign in the series? The MUTCD encourages consistent message through the series of advance signs for an exit.

[storm2k]

Why doesn't Route 3 appear on the first sign in the series? The MUTCD encourages consistent message through the series of advance signs for an exit.

Honestly, they could be fine with a "3 Secaucus Use Cash Lanes" aux sign to convey the message without much issue and just have that last sign ahead of the plaza area. That would get the job done.

[jeffandnicole]

On that last sign, they could've also added Exit 18E tabs to both the EZ Pass Only and Cash Users signage.

Having 2 interchanges combined in 1 toll plaza, along with restricted lanes (bus only, sometimes) has always been a very confusing scenario.  There won't be any MUTCD guidance to draw upon for such situations, so the NJTA improvises as best it can.

It doesn't help that GPS directions at toll plazas sucks at best, often directing everyone into the EZ Pass Only or Cash lanes.  Settings already include an option to avoid toll roads; opting for toll roads should be followed with an Electronic Toll or Cash options as well.

[roadman65]

The middle sign in Reply 4250 seems to imply that Route 3 is now accessed through Exit 18E and not Exit 16E.   Although finally better signage than the old ones( as for decades they ignored Route 495) these are  even more confusing.

Consider I work at a plaza similar to this with two different tolls charged ( one $1.50 through mainline and $1 ramp toll in one array), our toll plaza has people confused even with perfect signs there.  I am sure you have some that will go through the 18E lanes for 16E intent and through 18E traffic wind up in 16E lanes with the old signage. This new sign set up will intensify what I experience at my workplace and that of old here that is being caught off guard.

Plus now with express lanes you will get cash users in those lanes as well. Believe it or not people out there panic and minds go onto Auto Pilot mode and will make that wrong move. That was one of the things I found hard to believe when I first started to work at the tolls is how people really behave on new roads they never been on, especially tolled facilities.

[NoGoodNamesAvailable]

Plus now with express lanes you will get cash users in those lanes as well. Believe it or not people out there panic and minds go onto Auto Pilot mode and will make that wrong move. That was one of the things I found hard to believe when I first started to work at the tolls is how people really behave on new roads they never been on, especially tolled facilities.

The turnpike authority gets to charge a 50 dollar fee every time somebody makes that mistake. They're not gonna go out of their way to prevent it.

[roadman65]

Wish they would do it in Florida.

Plus now with express lanes you will get cash users in those lanes as well. Believe it or not people out there panic and minds go onto Auto Pilot mode and will make that wrong move. That was one of the things I found hard to believe when I first started to work at the tolls is how people really behave on new roads they never been on, especially tolled facilities.

The turnpike authority gets to charge a 50 dollar fee every time somebody makes that mistake. They're not gonna go out of their way to prevent it.

We have $100 for that, but the hierchy in DOT rather issue Unpaid Toll notices instead.  It's actually the law too to fine them 100 bucks, but the DOT ignores the law apparently.

[storm2k]

Two more new signs southbound. One approaching the northern mixing bowl for the Eastern and Western spurs (new style hybrid barrel/VMS signs) and then a sign approaching 16E for the new plaza alignment.




I'm just going to reiterate. I abhor the phrase "Plaza Bypass". The correct MUTCD way is just to show the ETC pictogram and the only and leave it at that. I am not a fan of NJTA insisting on this in the slightest. To me, it creates confusion that I don't think is warranted.

Oh, and "Pay Toll Ahead" is the completely wrong verbiage for this. This is a pick up a ticket point, not a pay toll point.

[lstone19]

Oh, and "Pay Toll Ahead" is the completely wrong verbiage for this. This is a pick up a ticket point, not a pay toll point.

I completely concur. And it could cause someone to start reaching for their wallet and get distracted since the sign is telling them they need to pay there and they weren't expecting it.

[jeffandnicole]

Oh, and "Pay Toll Ahead" is the completely wrong verbiage for this. This is a pick up a ticket point, not a pay toll point.

Which is strange that it's posted like that, as the verbiage in green is absolutely correct.

"TOLL ROAD AHEAD" or "TOLL PLAZA AHEAD" would be fine.



When I worked interchange 1, on the entry side where I would hand out tickets, occasionally I would have a car come up holding two or three dollars. There's no sign that said what the toll was, but they had that money ready!

[Alps]

Also not a fan of Plaza Bypass because it implies you don't need to pay the toll if you go that way.

[famartin]

Also not a fan of Plaza Bypass because it implies you don't need to pay the toll if you go that way.

"Express Lanes - EZPASS ONLY - Speed Limit 55" would seem to serve their intended goal without confusion perhaps?  Not sure that's MUTCD compliant, though.

It would probably be easiest just to replicate what DelDOT does...
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6470517,-75.7483845,3a,75y,269.87h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sTpWeSX0EXz1Bm1_Vko_xng!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Of course, the advantage DelDOT uses to ensure continued high speed travel is that they divide the lanes well before the plaza, which NJTA doesn't to (space limitations, I presume).

[storm2k]

This is straight from the MUTCD. The Turnpike Authority used to do this more or less. I wish they would go back to it.

[SignBridge]

I'm surprised at NJTA. With their new emphasis on MUTCD compliance, you'd think they'd follow the simpler MUTCD recommendations re: toll plaza signing. Instead they seem to have made it more complicated and ambiguous than necessary by using their own terminology, which as some have pointed out seems to be misleading.

[Alps]

This is straight from the MUTCD. The Turnpike Authority used to do this more or less. I wish they would go back to it.

I'd like to survey what other agencies are doing. If they go all-electronic this goes away anyway.

[jeffandnicole]

Of course, the advantage DelDOT uses to ensure continued high speed travel is that they divide the lanes well before the plaza, which NJTA doesn't to (space limitations, I presume).

Although that is showing its limitations now that nearly everyone has EZ Pass.  Rough estimations are that 90% or greater of the traffic is merging into the 2 left lanes, bogging them down.  The right 2 lanes are almost empty.  The 5 toll lanes (SB) and 7 toll lanes (NB) sit nearly unused.  And due to DelDOT's configuration, there's no easy way to add an additional express lane without tearing up a mile's worth of divided highway in each direction.

It also doesn't help that GPS directions take motorists thru those express lanes, so anyone that realizes they are in the wrong lanes slow down wondering what they can do, which they can't do anything about after the point of no return.

[SignBridge]

Seems like DelDOT outsmarted themselves, LOL

[famartin]

Of course, the advantage DelDOT uses to ensure continued high speed travel is that they divide the lanes well before the plaza, which NJTA doesn't to (space limitations, I presume).

Although that is showing its limitations now that nearly everyone has EZ Pass.  Rough estimations are that 90% or greater of the traffic is merging into the 2 left lanes, bogging them down.  The right 2 lanes are almost empty.  The 5 toll lanes (SB) and 7 toll lanes (NB) sit nearly unused.  And due to DelDOT's configuration, there's no easy way to add an additional express lane without tearing up a mile's worth of divided highway in each direction.

It also doesn't help that GPS directions take motorists thru those express lanes, so anyone that realizes they are in the wrong lanes slow down wondering what they can do, which they can't do anything about after the point of no return.

Yes, those are quite valid points.

The merging of two thru express lanes down to 1 right before merging with the rest of the plaza traffic at the NJTP Exit 1 plaza is also rather annoying, speaking of bad configurations of express lanes.

At this point, express lanes should generally be as wide as the thru lanes given most traffic now uses EZPASS, as you mention.

[SteveG1988]

Went through the PA Extension, a lot of the newer pavement has more "normal" striping for lane painting and skip.

[MASTERNC]

Of course, the advantage DelDOT uses to ensure continued high speed travel is that they divide the lanes well before the plaza, which NJTA doesn't to (space limitations, I presume).

I can attest to this the Sunday after Thanksgiving.  It was faster to go through the cash lanes with E-ZPass than the congested express lanes.  A few others figured this out as well.

Yes, those are quite valid points.

The merging of two thru express lanes down to 1 right before merging with the rest of the plaza traffic at the NJTP Exit 1 plaza is also rather annoying, speaking of bad configurations of express lanes.

At this point, express lanes should generally be as wide as the thru lanes given most traffic now uses EZPASS, as you mention.

DelDOT recognized this on SR 1.  The express lanes used to see a lane drop after the toll plazas, whereas the cash lanes created the second lane.  Now it's reversed.

[jeffandnicole]

Of course, the advantage DelDOT uses to ensure continued high speed travel is that they divide the lanes well before the plaza, which NJTA doesn't to (space limitations, I presume).

Although that is showing its limitations now that nearly everyone has EZ Pass.  Rough estimations are that 90% or greater of the traffic is merging into the 2 left lanes, bogging them down.  The right 2 lanes are almost empty.  The 5 toll lanes (SB) and 7 toll lanes (NB) sit nearly unused.  And due to DelDOT's configuration, there's no easy way to add an additional express lane without tearing up a mile's worth of divided highway in each direction.

It also doesn't help that GPS directions take motorists thru those express lanes, so anyone that realizes they are in the wrong lanes slow down wondering what they can do, which they can't do anything about after the point of no return.

Yes, those are quite valid points.

The merging of two thru express lanes down to 1 right before merging with the rest of the plaza traffic at the NJTP Exit 1 plaza is also rather annoying, speaking of bad configurations of express lanes.

At this point, express lanes should generally be as wide as the thru lanes given most traffic now uses EZPASS, as you mention.

While there's no lengthy barrier at Int. 1, they sloped and paved the roadway in such a way where water will drain into the gore area, where the drainage inlets are located. While it may seem like a quick and easy re-lining of the roadway, the reality is fixing this issue is rather complicated.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/o33REnfoQ3ANUKqY7

[famartin]

Of course, the advantage DelDOT uses to ensure continued high speed travel is that they divide the lanes well before the plaza, which NJTA doesn't to (space limitations, I presume).

Although that is showing its limitations now that nearly everyone has EZ Pass.  Rough estimations are that 90% or greater of the traffic is merging into the 2 left lanes, bogging them down.  The right 2 lanes are almost empty.  The 5 toll lanes (SB) and 7 toll lanes (NB) sit nearly unused.  And due to DelDOT's configuration, there's no easy way to add an additional express lane without tearing up a mile's worth of divided highway in each direction.

It also doesn't help that GPS directions take motorists thru those express lanes, so anyone that realizes they are in the wrong lanes slow down wondering what they can do, which they can't do anything about after the point of no return.

Yes, those are quite valid points.

The merging of two thru express lanes down to 1 right before merging with the rest of the plaza traffic at the NJTP Exit 1 plaza is also rather annoying, speaking of bad configurations of express lanes.

At this point, express lanes should generally be as wide as the thru lanes given most traffic now uses EZPASS, as you mention.

While there's no lengthy barrier at Int. 1, they sloped and paved the roadway in such a way where water will drain into the gore area, where the drainage inlets are located. While it may seem like a quick and easy re-lining of the roadway, the reality is fixing this issue is rather complicated.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/o33REnfoQ3ANUKqY7

Almost realized that too late one day when I got caught behind a slow poke and tried to use the gore to cut around, then saw how badly the drain had slumped below the pavement grade and had to cut back in.  Would've been a pricey short-cut, for sure. It was the northbound side shown here, but compared to the imagery, it looks like there's been considerable sinking of the drain recently:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.68565,-75.4464756,3a,75y,69.62h,94.84t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1spuDAi7htILpMUtuazP1vKg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

[jeffandnicole]

Of course, the advantage DelDOT uses to ensure continued high speed travel is that they divide the lanes well before the plaza, which NJTA doesn't to (space limitations, I presume).

Although that is showing its limitations now that nearly everyone has EZ Pass.  Rough estimations are that 90% or greater of the traffic is merging into the 2 left lanes, bogging them down.  The right 2 lanes are almost empty.  The 5 toll lanes (SB) and 7 toll lanes (NB) sit nearly unused.  And due to DelDOT's configuration, there's no easy way to add an additional express lane without tearing up a mile's worth of divided highway in each direction.

It also doesn't help that GPS directions take motorists thru those express lanes, so anyone that realizes they are in the wrong lanes slow down wondering what they can do, which they can't do anything about after the point of no return.

Yes, those are quite valid points.

The merging of two thru express lanes down to 1 right before merging with the rest of the plaza traffic at the NJTP Exit 1 plaza is also rather annoying, speaking of bad configurations of express lanes.

At this point, express lanes should generally be as wide as the thru lanes given most traffic now uses EZPASS, as you mention.

While there's no lengthy barrier at Int. 1, they sloped and paved the roadway in such a way where water will drain into the gore area, where the drainage inlets are located. While it may seem like a quick and easy re-lining of the roadway, the reality is fixing this issue is rather complicated.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/o33REnfoQ3ANUKqY7

Almost realized that too late one day when I got caught behind a slow poke and tried to use the gore to cut around, then saw how badly the drain had slumped below the pavement grade and had to cut back in.  Would've been a pricey short-cut, for sure. It was the northbound side shown here, but compared to the imagery, it looks like there's been considerable sinking of the drain recently:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.68565,-75.4464756,3a,75y,69.62h,94.84t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1spuDAi7htILpMUtuazP1vKg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

They recently rebuilt a portion of Interchange 6, adding an express lane in each direction. While they did have to modify the roadway a little bit, there were no drainage inlets in the roadway to contend with, so probably made for an easier project. The barriers were lengthened considerably.  There's also 3 lanes on either side of the plaza here, so that makes for better merging/diverging as well.

[theroadwayone]

EZ-Pass express lanes opened at 18E.
https://www.facebook.com/TurnpikeAuthority/posts/4529787643764160

Link requires a login.

https://twitter.com/NJTurnpike/status/1462756312148762625

The "Toll Plaza Bypass" is a bit misleading; kind of said this about the Raritan plaza on the GSP. You're bypassing the plaza, but not the toll (or ticket.)

[bluecountry]

You were asked to stop discussing your desired lane balances on the NJ Turnpike. Please heed moderator requests.

Why?  Nobody ever answered why the NJTP doesn't like doing 4 lanes in each direction.