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ICC Intercounty Connector

Started by Alex, August 27, 2009, 12:06:04 AM

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mc78andrew

Please forgive this dumb question as I am sure it was already asked and is buried in this thread somewhere, but what the heck is the point of that tunnel?  Looks like a wildlife pass similar to the one on I-78 in NJ.


cpzilliacus

Quote from: mc78andrew on December 22, 2012, 10:08:57 PM
Please forgive this dumb question as I am sure it was already asked and is buried in this thread somewhere, but what the heck is the point of that tunnel?  Looks like a wildlife pass similar to the one on I-78 in NJ.

No such thing as a "dumb" question!

That tunnel is a cut-and-cover structure that was built that way to reduce the impact of Md. 200 on the Winters Run neighborhood of Derwood, which is effectively cut in half by the toll road.

Google Maps here.

You can see that Olde Mill Run (a street) runs over that tunnel is the only way to get to the southern part of the community.

Once construction was completed, the restored area over the tunnel looks remarkably undisturbed.
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cpzilliacus

Gazette.net: ICC's tolls here to stay

QuoteThe Maryland Transportation Authority has decided it will not lower tolls on the Intercounty Connector.

QuoteEarlier this month, County Councilman Philip M. Andrews (D-Dist. 3) of Gaithersburg called for the MDTA to decrease the tolls it charges travelers on the 18-mile freeway. Andrews proposed a 50 percent cut to be put in place for a year, in order to increase traffic on the ICC.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

cpzilliacus

WTOP Radio: Md. may increase speed limit on ICC

QuoteThe Intercounty Connector, a highway that stretches between Gaithersburg and Laurel in Maryland, could see an increase in its speed limit this year.

QuoteAn engineering study found the speed limit of the highway could be raised from its current limit of 55 mph to 60 mph.

QuoteThe ICC, which opened in 2011, gives commuters a quick way to get from Interstate 270 to Interstate 95.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

cpzilliacus

Letter to the Editor in the Gazette from Montgomery County Councilmember Phil Andrews: Cut ICC tolls in half, double the traffic

QuoteIn Montgomery County and Prince George's County, there's a highway so devoid of vehicles it feels like an airport runway – the 18-mile, $3 billion Intercounty Connector (ICC). Unusually high tolls – $8 round-trip tolls for cars and $60 round-trip tolls for trucks – during rush hour, and tolls only slightly lower most of the rest of the day, prevent or deter many drivers from using it. The Maryland Transportation Authority, whose members Gov. Martin O'Malley (D) appoints, could quickly reduce the tolls to make the ICC appealing and useful to many more people.

QuoteDramatically reducing tolls on the ICC, especially for regular commuters, as is done on other state toll facilities including the Bay Bridge and Fort McHenry Tunnel, would shift traffic from congested roads to the underused ICC. Commuting to work on the ICC from Gaithersburg to Laurel costs $2,000 annually, because Maryland provides absolutely no discount on tolls for regular commuters on the ICC. Why aren't ICC commuters getting the same deep discounts as their counterparts in Baltimore and on the Eastern Shore? Why are Montgomery and Prince George's state lawmakers silent on this issue?
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

cpzilliacus

Gazette.net: Police on ICC issue hundreds of speeding citations, warnings
Aggressive ticketing? Hard to say, according to authorities


QuotePolice officers on the Intercounty Connector issued about 10 speeding citations and warnings per day during the past three months, according to data from the Maryland Transportation Authority.

QuoteThe 18-mile tolled freeway is patrolled by the Maryland Transportation Authority Police, who enforce laws around the state at sites such as the Chesapeake Bay Bridge and the World Trade Center in Baltimore's Inner Harbor.
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Brandon

A silly question, based on where the ICC is once I saw it on a map: Why isn't this posted as I-370?
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

cpzilliacus

Quote from: Brandon on January 15, 2013, 03:07:15 PM
A silly question, based on where the ICC is once I saw it on a map: Why isn't this posted as I-370?

There was once a very opinionated anti-ICC Earth First! member who lived in Takoma Park, Maryland and was so sure that the ICC would get the I-370 number that he named his anti-ICC Web site "ICC370."  The ICC370 Web site is gone and the owner of that site is in Oregon, where he obsesses about other things, like Peak Oil, though he has a new anti-ICC site here (not sure why, since the road is mostly built and the rest of it is under construction).   

But the  ICC was always planned to be Md. Route 200.   I have seen it in shown in old (paper) copies of the state's Highway Location Reference as Route 200UL. back to 1980's (and maybe  earlier) that show 200UL.  Perhaps because the Baltimore "Outer Beltway" was (and is) Route 100?
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

kj3400

I've always figured Rt 100 seemed like Baltimore's other beltway. I wonder what the reasoning was for building two outer beltways.
Call me Kenny/Kenneth. No, seriously.

cpzilliacus

WTOP Radio: Maryland proposal cracks down on uncollected tolls

QuoteMillions of dollars in unpaid tolls have gone uncollected in Maryland, but a new proposal being considered by the General Assembly aims to make it harder to dodge fees.

QuoteThe proposal allows the Maryland Transportation Authority to go after those who don't pay tolls.

Quote"It would mean at the end of 30 days, if you don't pay the toll, you will get a $50 citation," Maryland Transportation Authority Executive Secretary Harold M. Bartlett says. "You can pay the citation, go to court or do neither, and we can institute other measures like suspending the registration on your car."
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

wphiii

Quote from: kj3400 on January 15, 2013, 05:59:01 PM
I've always figured Rt 100 seemed like Baltimore's other beltway. I wonder what the reasoning was for building two outer beltways.

The ICC seems more like an "Outer Beltway" for DC.

cpzilliacus

WTOP Radio:  For those living near ICC, noise fight continues

QuoteA local community group is continuing its fight against the Maryland Transportation Authority, arguing the noise on the InterCounty Connector is making life in the neighborhood unbearable.

Quote"There are houses within 400 feet of the ICC and they are hearing the traffic at all hours of the night," says Rich Burnes, who is part of the Colesville ICC Noise Concern Group.

Quote"It's terrible. There is no earthly reason why they should have to put up with this."

QuoteAnd sure enough on Cutstone Way, near Bonifant Road and the National Capital Trolley Museum, it wasn't hard to see the ICC, or find people who said it's unpleasant.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

1995hoo

#362
My question would be, was the ICC on the books as a planned road when they bought their houses? If so, then yes, there is indeed an "earthly reason why they should have to put up this this"–they bought houses in a place where they knew, or reasonably should have known, that a highway was to be built. "I didn't think they'd ever build it" is not a valid excuse.

(BTW, I know the route was changed multiple times in the planning process, and if it were rerouted to pass these people's neighborhood when it had not previously been planned to do so, I would sympathize more with them.)
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: wphiii on January 16, 2013, 02:30:54 PM
Quote from: kj3400 on January 15, 2013, 05:59:01 PM
I've always figured Rt 100 seemed like Baltimore's other beltway. I wonder what the reasoning was for building two outer beltways.

The ICC seems more like an "Outer Beltway" for DC.

Correct.

That was always one of the reasons cited by persons and groups opposed to the highway to not build it.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: 1995hoo on January 17, 2013, 10:08:35 AM
My question would be, was the ICC on the books as a planned road when they bought their houses? If so, then yes, there is indeed an "earthly reason why they should have to put up this this"–they bought houses in a place where they knew, or reasonably should have known, that a highway was to be built. "I didn't think they'd ever build it" is not a valid excuse.

Maryland has essentially all parcels of land online through the  State Department of Assessments and Taxation (SDAT) Web site.  For most real estate with improvements such as houses, the year of construction is also shown (look under "Primary Structure Built").  It also shows when someone purchased the property for the past three transactions.

With one exception, all of the homes along Cutstone Way were built between 1987 and 1991.  That means that their development was approved well after the Outer Beltway (and later to be called the InterCounty Connector) had been placed on the Master Plan of Highways.

Quote from: 1995hoo on January 17, 2013, 10:08:35 AM
(BTW, I know the route was changed multiple times in the planning process, and if it were rerouted to pass these people's neighborhood when it had not previously been planned to do so, I would sympathize more with them.)

There was a bid by certain federal environmental regulators (USEPA Region III, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers Baltimore Engineering District and the Fish and Wildlife Service) to re-route the ICC so it would run north of this location and into the Patuxent River watershed, north of Md. 198 (it was usually called the "Northern" Alignment. The ICC, as built from Md. 97 (Georgia Avenue) to U.S. 1 (Baltimore Avenue) runs through the Anacostia River watershed.  There is no water drawn from the Anacostia watershed for drinking water, but Patuxent River watershed is a significant source of drinking water for Montgomery and Prince George's Counties.  The federal regulators wanted to do this to protect the Paint Branch of the Anacostia River, which supports a self-sustaining brown trout population (but it was pointed out during the 2003-2007 ICC environmental impact statement process that the brown trout are an alien, introduced species, and as a result, not eligible for protection under federal environmental laws - not what the regulators wanted to hear).

But the effort to re-route the ICC to the north in eastern Montgomery County and  Northern Prince George's County was ultimately defeated, and that decision was confirmed by  the U.S. District Court for the District of Maryland when it dismissed the effort by the Sierra Club and Environmental Defense to force a remand of the ICC's Final Environmental Impact Statement (FEIS). 

Sierra and EDF had been on a forum-shopping effort, filing lawsuits against the USDOT/FHWA in the federal courts in D.C. and Maryland in an effort to get the ICC FEIS remanded, but fortunately, the federal court in D.C. refused to play along, and ordered it transferred to Maryland, where it was consolidated with the other lawsuit, and Judge Williams dismissed them both.  Apparently the plaintiffs were looking for a way to avoid the matter ending up before the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 4th Circuit in Richmond, which has a reputation of not being very sympathetic to anti-highway appeals, but  it ended up moot, since Sierra and EDF dropped their appeal (I think they might have been concerned that an appeal would have gone against them and resulted in a "published" opinion, which is then binding in all of the 4th Circuit states).

Now there was a significant re-routing of the ICC that dates back to the 1960's, which resulted in the highway running north of the City of Rockville instead of south - but that was done because Maryland and Virginia wanted the Outer Beltway crossing of the Potomac River to be further upstream than what had first been planned - and that re-routing did not change the route that was used east of the Trolley Museum.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

cpzilliacus

Baltimore Sun: Emergency bill seeks to raise ICC speed limit to 60 mph

QuoteEmergency legislation to raise the speed limit on the Intercounty Connector from 55 mph to 60 mph has been filed by two Montgomery County state senators.

QuoteDemocrats Jennie Forehand and Nancy King want the speed increased on the 18.8-mile toll road between Interstate 270 in Gaithersburg and Interstate 95 and U.S. 1 in Laurel to take effect immediately because it is "necessary for the immediate preservation of the public health or safety."
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cpzilliacus

Maryland Senate President Mike Miller says he wants the state to lease the ICC to a private firm in exchange for a large lump-sum payment.  See posting in the Maryland thread:

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=4671.msg199251#msg199251
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

cpzilliacus

Another bill in the Maryland General Assembly's hopper, as reported by Gazette.net: House bill could raise ICC speed limit to 70 - Freeway's speed limit currently set at 55

QuoteThe speed limit on the Intercounty Connector could reach 70 miles per hour if a bill, introduced during the General Assembly's current session, passes.

QuoteDel. Aruna Miller (D-Dist. 15) of Darnestown and Del. Neil Parrott (R-Dist. 2B) of Hagerstown are co-sponsoring the bill that would raise the maximum speed limit on interstates and expressways statewide from 65 to 70 miles per hour.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

1995hoo

I can think of quite a few roads in Maryland where a 70-mph speed limit, or even 75, would be quite appropriate, but I don't think the ICC is one of them, especially at its western end. Too many sharp curves that are difficult for trucks and slippery in the rain for everyone.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

vdeane

That's what advisory speeds and driving for conditions are for.  If we posted every speed limit in NY to the lowest common denominator, I-81 would have a 15 mph limit because of winter snow storms.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: 1995hoo on January 29, 2013, 08:59:30 AM
I can think of quite a few roads in Maryland where a 70-mph speed limit, or even 75, would be quite appropriate, but I don't think the ICC is one of them, especially at its western end. Too many sharp curves that are difficult for trucks and slippery in the rain for everyone.

I would be find with 65 MPH, along  with advisory plaques (as suggested by deanej) at those curves between "secret" Md. 200A (Shady Grove Metro station) and the Winters Run Tunnel.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

1995hoo

I might say 65 or 70 mph for the rest and 60 mph for the segment at the extreme western end. I've long thought that most people totally disregard advisory speeds with a few exceptions (I used to pay attention to them when I drove a 1977 Granada, for example, because it handled like crap), but if you instead adopt a policy of posting more reasonable speed limits in general, people might take more notice when you post a lower speed limit. In other words, when speed limits are artificially low in general it makes people quicker to disregard a lower limit much of the time because they figure it's more of the same.

I'll be surprised if the 70-mph bill passes, though. A 60-mph limit for the entire ICC won't surprise me, but anything more widespread, and anything above 65, would, just because it's Maryland.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

vdeane

I don't think an overall speed limit should be reduced just because of a feature that would get an advisory speed.  Not all vehicles are created equal.  I don't want to be forced to drive my car the speed a tractor trailer would need to make a turn.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

1995hoo

Certainly true, and indeed earlier today I took a ramp at 55 mph that had an advisory speed of 35 (I was driving the RX-7). I think 60 mph is probably too fast for the trucks through that area on that particular road, though, and my feeling about 60 mph as the speed limit for that section is based on having driven it myself and on the principle of not allowing or encouraging too much of a speed variance between the cars and the slower trucks.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

cpzilliacus

TOLLROADSnews: Maryland's experience with all-electronic tolling after 14 months

QuoteBefore they opened the MD200 Inter County Connector (ICC),  Maryland Transportation Authority (MdTA) had been handling 10,000 camera images a day at seven conventional toll facilities with their mix of transponder tolls and cash collection. That 4.8% was a mix of violations and transponder misreads - motorists in the transponder toll lanes sans a functioning transponder.

QuoteThe cashless ICC with the mix of transponder tolls and camera tolls has more than tripled the image processing workload at the MdTA with an extra 21,000 daily.
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