Proposed nationwide 65mph truck limit

[jakeroot]

I certainly have, many times. But the confidence that they'll do it and get over when they're done makes it much more bearable than a car doing the same thing.

Even if it takes much, much longer and you can't see anything around them?  Especially if it goes on for miles if the truck is actually passing 3 trucks and a RV?  Even if the car stays in the left lane (the majority of people do move over eventually, though maybe not if there's another car nearby that they're gonna pass), they can still be passed on the right.

I'm not saying I like waiting for trucks to pass. But the greatest joy is when they're done and traffic can flow freely and the backlog clears up. That joy doesn't happen when it comes to left lane hogs, because they carry the backlog with them; it never goes away. And the ire of having to pass on the right dissipates any sanity preserved from the other factors.

Totally agree with this. I can deal with a truck taking 2-4 minutes to pass, because I know it will get back over. Left-lane campers, on the other hand, will likely continue to camp. At that point, it just becomes a slalom!

[sprjus4]

I can deal with a truck taking 2-4 minutes to pass

What about when you're stuck behind one like in my case creating congestion and no where to pass for 15 minutes, 20 miles?

[webny99]

I can deal with a truck taking 2-4 minutes to pass

What about when you're stuck behind one like in my case creating congestion and no where to pass for 15 minutes, 20 miles?

It's certainly possible for that to happen once in a while, but I don't find it common to be stuck behind a truck for more than five minutes.
If it starts happening more frequently and for many miles, it's probably time to widen the road to six lanes.

[1995hoo]

I don't think it's that the truck drivers "don't care." I think it's more a case that they are far more aware of their vehicles' limitations and how they have to be driven, including the need to look further ahead and plan when to pass, than the average car driver is. They presumably know they're going to hold up other traffic, but they also know when they need to begin to pass if they're to have any realistic hope of completing the pass.

Of course it's frustrating as a car driver. But most truck drivers aren't doing it out of some sort of sadistic desire to give you a figurative middle finger by obstructing everyone.

[froggie]

But most truck drivers aren't doing it out of some sort of sadistic desire to give you a figurative middle finger by obstructing everyone.

You'd hardly know it given the tone of some of these comments...

[1995hoo]

But most truck drivers aren't doing it out of some sort of sadistic desire to give you a figurative middle finger by obstructing everyone.

You'd hardly know it given the tone of some of these comments...

Yeah, and you know, of course some truck drivers are arseholes (as is true of pretty much any group of people you can name), which is why I worded it as I did in terms of "most truck drivers."  In my observation over the years, if you learn how truck drivers communicate with their lights and stuff and try to use the same signals to cooperate with them, they're usually fairly likely to try to get out of your way sooner, etc.

[sprjus4]

of course some truck drivers are arseholes

I was driving down a stretch of I-65 in Alabama doing 70 mph in the right lane last year, and a truck tailgated me for 5 minutes with its brights on, and the left lane was wide open the entire time. Exits were 10-15 miles apart, so no excuse for having to exit anytime soon. So I decided to let off the gas and veer down to 68 mph, 66 mph, 64 mph (being in the slow lane, of course this is perfectly legal, and he has the entire left lane to pass) then after about 5 minutes, he finally got in the left lane and blew past doing at least 78 mph. It was as of something was preventing him for getting over. Only a few cars passed in those 5 minutes, there was plenty of opportunities for him to pass.

That's an arsehole. Those are the drivers who are dangerous.

If it starts happening more frequently and for many miles, it's probably time to widen the road to six lanes.

That's the goal, but only pieces are being completed. The rural 30 mile stretch is unfunded, so these trucks and overall regular drivers who feel the need to do 60-65 mph in the left lane continue to be issues. Speed limiters would only make it worse IMO.

[jeffandnicole]

I don't think it's that the truck drivers "don't care." I think it's more a case that they are far more aware of their vehicles' limitations and how they have to be driven, including the need to look further ahead and plan when to pass, than the average car driver is. They presumably know they're going to hold up other traffic, but they also know when they need to begin to pass if they're to have any realistic hope of completing the pass.

Of course it's frustrating as a car driver. But most truck drivers aren't doing it out of some sort of sadistic desire to give you a figurative middle finger by obstructing everyone.

Knowing that you said 'most'...

It takes 2 to tango.  If one driver is in the right lane, and another driver is in the left lane, and for some reason can't complete the pass, either the driver in the left lane needs to slow down to go back to the right lane, or the truck driver in the right lane can slow down to allow the passing truck to complete the pass.  If neither happens, then they are both arseholes.

I can deal with a truck taking 2-4 minutes to pass

What about when you’re stuck behind one like in my case creating congestion and no where to pass for 15 minutes, 20 miles?

It's certainly possible for that to happen once in a while, but I don't find it common to be stuck behind a truck for more than five minutes.
If it starts happening more frequently and for many miles, it's probably time to widen the road to six lanes.

I don't know of any criteria that states if trucks aren't passing each other then the road should be widened.  Most widenings will occur because traffic volumes are approaching the limitations of the roadway, not because trucks are obeying the speed limit.

But most truck drivers aren't doing it out of some sort of sadistic desire to give you a figurative middle finger by obstructing everyone.

You'd hardly know it given the tone of some of these comments...

Yeah, and you know, of course some truck drivers are arseholes (as is true of pretty much any group of people you can name), which is why I worded it as I did in terms of “most truck drivers.” In my observation over the years, if you learn how truck drivers communicate with their lights and stuff and try to use the same signals to cooperate with them, they’re usually fairly likely to try to get out of your way sooner, etc.

I remember reading a truckers' forum at one time, and there is a lot of complaining about how the new breed of truckers don't use these signals like the truckers of last century did.  And I get that - for example, a trucker driving the center lane of a 3 lane highway at the speed limit or less is holding up his fellow truckers, rather than staying in the right lane.  So while some truckers may still flash their lights and such, even the truckers will say they don't communicate like they used to.

[webny99]

It takes 2 to tango.  If one driver is in the right lane, and another driver is in the left lane, and for some reason can't complete the pass, either the driver in the left lane needs to slow down to go back to the right lane, or the truck driver in the right lane can slow down to allow the passing truck to complete the pass.  If neither happens, then they are both arseholes.

I sort of agree, but I think the primary responsibility lies with the driver on the left. They obviously got over for a reason, so they need to figure out what they need to do to pass / get out of the way / etc. It's not the person on the right's job to accommodate the foolishness of others. If I was the one on the right, I wouldn't change my speed right away. I would let it be for a while, and then be the nice guy and speed up (or slow down) once it's clear that the person on the left is lacking a pulse or otherwise unresponsive to the situation.

It's certainly possible for that to happen once in a while, but I don't find it common to be stuck behind a truck for more than five minutes.
If it starts happening more frequently and for many miles, it's probably time to widen the road to six lanes.

I don't know of any criteria that states if trucks aren't passing each other then the road should be widened.  Most widenings will occur because traffic volumes are approaching the limitations of the roadway, not because trucks are obeying the speed limit.

Wait, what?
My point is that if truck volumes are high enough that they are regularly passing each other, and them doing so causes significant and recurring slowdowns for other traffic, then it may be time to look at a widening. The speed limit is not necessarily relevant.

[sprjus4]

not because trucks are obeying the speed limit.

When the truck in the left lane is doing 60.5 passing a line of trucks and passenger vehicles doing 60 mph in the right lane for 15 miles, and the speed limit is 70 mph, the truck isn't "obeying the speed limit".

If anything, it gives more temptation for vehicles behind it to gun it as soon as the truck moves over to make up for time lost. Or in the case of I-64 in Virginia, continue to slowly accelerate to 70 mph and take forever doing it.

Either way, that stretch of I-64 has 60,000 - 70,000 AADT and high truck volumes. The stretch leaving Richmond is currently being expanded to 6-lanes, and the stretch leaving Hampton Roads is 2/3 complete (3 phases, 21 miles, 12 miles completed, 9 miles under construction) to 6-lanes. There's no designated funding currently, but the end goal is to expand the remaining 30 miles between the two widening projects to 6-lanes as well, and create a consistent 6-lane section between Richmond and Hampton Roads.

[Rothman]

Had a truck run me off the road on I-81 im Virginia at night once.  There was a right lane closure.  I moved over to the left lane when he was more than a decent length behind me.  He decided to speed up in the right lane right along side of me and move over right at the barrels.

I was able to just swerve and somehow still ended up in front of him, at which point he turned on his brights.

Never had an experience before or after like it.

[sprjus4]

Had a truck run me off the road on I-81 im Virginia at night once.  There was a right lane closure.  I moved over to the left lane when he was more than a decent length behind me.  He decided to speed up in the right lane right along side of me and move over right at the barrels.

I was able to just swerve and somehow still ended up in front of him, at which point he turned on his brights.

Never had an experience before or after like it.

Well, when he ends up in one of the daily I-81 wrecks, he'll know why.

Reckless driving at its finest.

[jeffandnicole]

I don't know of any criteria that states if trucks aren't passing each other then the road should be widened.  Most widenings will occur because traffic volumes are approaching the limitations of the roadway, not because trucks are obeying the speed limit.

Wait, what?
My point is that if truck volumes are high enough that they are regularly passing each other, and them doing so causes significant and recurring slowdowns for other traffic, then it may be time to look at a widening. The speed limit is not necessarily relevant.

Trucks pass each other all the time. Hardly anything unusual about that anywhere.  The problem is when they are passing each other and one slows down to match the speed of the other.  How often have you seen that occur?  We can name examples here and there, but ultimately it's rare. 

not because trucks are obeying the speed limit.

When the truck in the left lane is doing 60.5 passing a line of trucks and passenger vehicles doing 60 mph in the right lane for 15 miles, and the speed limit is 70 mph, the truck isn't "obeying the speed limit".

Overall a rare situation.  Why would 2 trucks both go significantly below the limit?

Also, you may want to look up what a speed limit is.  It's a limit, not a suggestion.  The trucker doing the passing could be cited for failure to keep right or obstruction of traffic, but he certainly can't be cited for failure to obey the speed limit.  What if the speed limit was 65 and one truck was going 65 and the other going 64.5?

[sprjus4]

Overall a rare situation.

You clearly haven't driven I-64 between Richmond and Newport News.

Why would 2 trucks both go significantly below the limit?

Truck in the left lane going 60.5 mph and at least 7 vehicles in the right lane going 60 mph.

Traffic is usually slower on that highway and a lot of people seem to have a hard time obeying the speed limit. At points, I was able to get a glimpse in front of the truck obstructing the left lane on curves, and sure enough wide open highway in front of him, nothing in sight, but behind me was traffic piled up, tailgating, etc.

The trucker doing the passing could be cited for failure to keep right or obstruction of traffic, but he certainly can't be cited for failure to obey the speed limit.  What if the speed limit was 65 and one truck was going 65 and the other going 64.5?

Different story. This truck was holding everybody 10 mph under the speed limit for 15 miles. Yes, the speed limit is a "limit" not a "suggestion", but stay out of the fast lane if you can't maintain it. The right lane exists for slower traffic - and that truck could have slowed from 60.5 mph to 60 mph. If I'm going .5 mph faster than someone and don't intend speeding up, I'll generally just stay behind them and reduce my speed .5 mph. I'm not going to hold up traffic doing an incredibly slow pass, or if I'm comfortable enough, I'll speed up to quickly pass then slow back down.

[jakeroot]

Overall a rare situation.

You clearly haven't driven I-64 between Richmond and Newport News.

Hahaha this happens everywhere dude! Everyone says the same shit: "my area is terrible! Clearly you haven't driven in [poster's hometown]!"

Every freeway, all over the world, has the occasional passing truck holding up traffic. It's just how things work. Trucks are slower than passenger vehicles. Period. They have the right to pass. Period. Sure, some take longer than others, but that doesn't mean they're not allowed to do it. Sure, it comes across as rude, but consider that perhaps both vehicles are limited to 60? And who knows how long both of those trucks will be on a particular stretch of road. The following truck eventually has to give.

[kphoger]

When the truck in the left lane is doing 60.5 passing a line of trucks and passenger vehicles doing 60 mph in the right lane for 15 miles, and the speed limit is 70 mph, the truck isn't "obeying the speed limit".

Yes it is.  The speed limit is the maximum allowable speed.  Absent a minimum speed limit, the burden of proof is on you to prove that driving 9.5 mph below the speed limit constitutes a safety hazard.

[sprjus4]

the burden of proof is on you to prove that driving 9.5 mph below the speed limit constitutes a safety hazard.

When there's recurring congestion, tailgating, and reckless weaving in and out of lanes piling up for miles behind the truck, that is a safety hazard.

It's one thing to pass. But to ride the flow of traffic in the right lane inching and creeping pass it in the left lane for 15 miles only causes issues itself.

[kphoger]

the burden of proof is on you to prove that driving 9.5 mph below the speed limit constitutes a safety hazard.

When there's recurring congestion, tailgating, and reckless weaving in and out of lanes piling up for miles behind the truck, that is a safety hazard.

It's one thing to pass. But to ride the flow of traffic in the right lane inching and creeping pass it in the left lane for 15 miles only causes issues itself.

One driver doing something does not cause "recurring" anything.  If one driver's actions can demonstrably be shown to cause tailgating and reckless weaving, then there may be a case for his having disobeyed the general speed limit clause of not creating a hazard.  Otherwise, no offense was done.

[sprjus4]

One driver doing something does not cause "recurring" anything.

What it does is cause people doing 70-80 mph to have to slow down to 60 mph, and that would involve hitting the breaks. A domino effect is then created with people hitting breaks, and with the amount of traffic on the road, it ends up causing slowdowns as the break hitting is taken miles back.

This has been proven time and time again.

[kphoger]

One driver doing something does not cause "recurring" anything.

What it does is cause people doing 70-80 mph to have to slow down to 60 mph, and that would involve hitting the breaks. A domino effect is then created with people hitting breaks, and with the amount of traffic on the road, it ends up causing slowdowns as the break hitting is taken miles back.

This has been proven time and time again.

Meanwhile, time after time, all across the world, nothing bad at all happens as a result.

[Verlanka]

not because trucks are obeying the speed limit.

When the truck in the left lane is doing 60.5 passing a line of trucks and passenger vehicles doing 60 mph in the right lane for 15 miles, and the speed limit is 70 mph, the truck isn't "obeying the speed limit".

Overall a rare situation.  Why would 2 trucks both go significantly below the limit?

Maybe so that they wouldn't go above the limit in the first place.

Overall a rare situation.

You clearly haven't driven I-64 between Richmond and Newport News.

Hahaha this happens everywhere dude! Everyone says the same shit: "my area is terrible! Clearly you haven't driven in [poster's hometown]!"

Around here, I-4 is more accident-prone than any other freeway.

[froggie]

One driver doing something does not cause "recurring" anything.

What it does is cause people doing 70-80 mph to have to slow down to 60 mph, and that would involve hitting the breaks. A domino effect is then created with people hitting breaks, and with the amount of traffic on the road, it ends up causing slowdowns as the break hitting is taken miles back.

This has been proven time and time again.

It also proves time and time again that drivers these days don't know how to properly look ahead and slow down...instead they jam their brakes at the last second.

It speaks far more to the impatience and aggressiveness of drivers (and there's plenty of both in Hampton Roads) than it does to the trucks and how the trucks pass each other.

[skluth]

Overall a rare situation.

You clearly haven't driven I-64 between Richmond and Newport News.

Hahaha this happens everywhere dude! Everyone says the same shit: "my area is terrible! Clearly you haven't driven in [poster's hometown]!"

Every freeway, all over the world, has the occasional passing truck holding up traffic. It's just how things work. Trucks are slower than passenger vehicles. Period. They have the right to pass. Period. Sure, some take longer than others, but that doesn't mean they're not allowed to do it. Sure, it comes across as rude, but consider that perhaps both vehicles are limited to 60? And who knows how long both of those trucks will be on a particular stretch of road. The following truck eventually has to give.

That is true, but my own observations are it happens more on I-64 than most other highways (although I haven't lived there since 2007). Norfolk/Hampton Roads is the busiest container port on the East Coast and the only interstate connecting it to its largest markets to the north and northwest. (US 58 and US 460 are good four lane highways, but have stoplights and less direct.) I-64 is also still two lanes between Williamsburg and Richmond's near eastern suburbs with AADT's of about 60K or more in each direction on its least busy stretch with a much higher percentage of truck traffic than typical highways. Add the rolling hills affecting trucks passing each other as I-64 goes in and out of the shallow valleys of the Peninsula and you have a nightmare formula, especially on the end of tourist weekends. I used to regularly use US 460 to drive to DC even though it normally took almost 30 minutes longer just to avoid I-64 frustration.

[froggie]

^ Did you not try US 60 between Bottoms Bridge and Toano?  I found it a quiet alternative to I-64 through that stretch.  4 lanes (except for using VA 30 at the easternmost end) and very useful if you're not in a hurry.

[sprjus4]

^ Did you not try US 60 between Bottoms Bridge and Toano?  I found it a quiet alternative to I-64 through that stretch.  4 lanes (except for using VA 30 at the easternmost end) and very useful if you're not in a hurry.

I know this question is not directed at me, but I will agree. I tried it recently because I had never used it and was sitting in traffic at Toano, and it certainly is a nice road with minimal frustration compared to I-64.

I was indeed in a hurry, and I'm sure it saved time over sitting in stop go I-64 Saturday morning traffic. It was easy to average 60-65 mph as most of it is 55 mph. Those rural stretches should definitely be considered for 60 mph by VDOT IMO. Most of it is divided highway, and compared to other 60 mph highways, it could handle it.

Though I will say, US 460 works the best especially if you're going to South Hampton Roads, because while US 60 avoids the Toano to Bottoms Bridge stretch, it doesn't avoid the HRBT and MMMBT. US-460 does. During off peak hours though, I'll generally just stick to I-64, or go around congestion on US-60, if the tunnels are clear.

As for that 2-lane section, you'd think by now they would have 4-laned it. But obviously now, the priority for any money needs to go to I-64 widening to 6-lanes.