Cities that have similar freeway networks

[SectorZ]

I always thought Indy and Columbus, OH are similar...and had the Downtown Indy Loop happened, would have been moreso

They are nearly identical cities. Similar skylines, similar population,weather,etc.

To the casual observer, you might think so. However the cities are quite different. Both are state capitols, but Indianapolis is the dominant city in Indiana, while Columbus is at best Ohio's third most significant metropolis. Columbus is basically just an overgrown college town with only one major professional sports team (the Blue Jackets), while Indy has the Pacers, the Colts, and the Fever... as well as a little thing called the Indianapolis 500. Oh, I guess you can include the MLS Crew for the city named after a racist European invader, that is IF you count soccer as a "major" professional sport.    Indy has the world's largest Children's Museum, Columbus has Ohio State (for what that's worth  ). When I-465 was built in the late 1960s it was almost entirely 3 lanes in each direction, a distinction that I-270 couldn't make until the early 2000s. Another significant highway difference between the cities is that Columbus has state route freeways, while all of Indy's freeways (except for US 31 in Hamilton County) are Interstates.

All that being said, I used to work for a company based in Columbus (OH) and I have spent significant over time there. It is a pleasant city with friendly people, and except for their hang-up over the word "The"  , they are wonderful folks. Our two cities share a bond as "flyover country" to many on our coasts, but we "No Coasters" do just fine without those snobs. The Midwest (no, NOT you St. Louis) and Big Ten RULE (BTW, Indy has access to TWO Big Ten schools within 50 miles, not just one).

You leave out MLS, meanwhile, WTF are the "Fever"?

[hotdogPi]

I always thought Indy and Columbus, OH are similar...and had the Downtown Indy Loop happened, would have been moreso

They are nearly identical cities. Similar skylines, similar population,weather,etc.

To the casual observer, you might think so. However the cities are quite different. Both are state capitols, but Indianapolis is the dominant city in Indiana, while Columbus is at best Ohio's third most significant metropolis. Columbus is basically just an overgrown college town with only one major professional sports team (the Blue Jackets), while Indy has the Pacers, the Colts, and the Fever... as well as a little thing called the Indianapolis 500. Oh, I guess you can include the MLS Crew for the city named after a racist European invader, that is IF you count soccer as a "major" professional sport.    Indy has the world's largest Children's Museum, Columbus has Ohio State (for what that's worth  ). When I-465 was built in the late 1960s it was almost entirely 3 lanes in each direction, a distinction that I-270 couldn't make until the early 2000s. Another significant highway difference between the cities is that Columbus has state route freeways, while all of Indy's freeways (except for US 31 in Hamilton County) are Interstates.

All that being said, I used to work for a company based in Columbus (OH) and I have spent significant over time there. It is a pleasant city with friendly people, and except for their hang-up over the word "The"  , they are wonderful folks. Our two cities share a bond as "flyover country" to many on our coasts, but we "No Coasters" do just fine without those snobs. The Midwest (no, NOT you St. Louis) and Big Ten RULE (BTW, Indy has access to TWO Big Ten schools within 50 miles, not just one).

You leave out MLS, meanwhile, WTF are the "Fever"?

WNBA

[thspfc]

You can't just rank the WNBA as higher than the MLS. That's just not how it works.

[TEG24601]

Portland and Seattle

Doubly so, if I-90 had been finished to SR 99, and the Bayshore Freeway completed, in Seattle.  And the Prescott Freeway completed in Portland.

[michravera]

Phoenix and Las Vegas seem to both be going for the concept of using single numeric designations as a "Loop"  of sorts regarding freeway numbering.

Phoenix and Las Vegas can be similar because both cities aren't particularly constrained by local geography. They are, in effect, "Huge cities in the middle of nowhere". Cities on a lake (like Chicago, or Cleveland, or Buffalo), river (like most of the larger mid-West cities) or on a coast or bay (like about half of the large cities in the US) all will have quirks that make it unlikely that their freeway networks would be repeated.

[hotdogPi]

Phoenix and Las Vegas seem to both be going for the concept of using single numeric designations as a "Loop"  of sorts regarding freeway numbering.

Phoenix and Las Vegas can be similar because both cities aren't particularly constrained by local geography. They are, in effect, "Huge cities in the middle of nowhere". Cities on a lake (like Chicago, or Cleveland, or Buffalo), river (like most of the larger mid-West cities) or on a coast or bay (like about half of the large cities in the US) all will have quirks that make it unlikely that their freeway networks would be repeated.

Both metro areas are blocked by mountains in some places.

[Max Rockatansky]

Phoenix and Las Vegas seem to both be going for the concept of using single numeric designations as a "Loop"  of sorts regarding freeway numbering.

Phoenix and Las Vegas can be similar because both cities aren't particularly constrained by local geography. They are, in effect, "Huge cities in the middle of nowhere". Cities on a lake (like Chicago, or Cleveland, or Buffalo), river (like most of the larger mid-West cities) or on a coast or bay (like about half of the large cities in the US) all will have quirks that make it unlikely that their freeway networks would be repeated.

Both metro areas are blocked by mountains in some places.

I would say a more accurate way of describing Phoenix and Las Vegas is that both were designed with modern city planning in mind.  Both have similar grid patterns that was planned from a very early era to network outwards.  Rather than shoving a freeway (for the most part) through the heart of a developed area like an older city the freeway networks were planned more the outskirts in a beltway fashion near the areas of projected growth.  While outward growth is being gradually constrained by mountain ranges both Phoenix and Las Vegas do lie within large valleys. 

[michravera]

Phoenix and Las Vegas seem to both be going for the concept of using single numeric designations as a "Loop"  of sorts regarding freeway numbering.

Phoenix and Las Vegas can be similar because both cities aren't particularly constrained by local geography. They are, in effect, "Huge cities in the middle of nowhere". Cities on a lake (like Chicago, or Cleveland, or Buffalo), river (like most of the larger mid-West cities) or on a coast or bay (like about half of the large cities in the US) all will have quirks that make it unlikely that their freeway networks would be repeated.

Both metro areas are blocked by mountains in some places.

I would say a more accurate way of describing Phoenix and Las Vegas is that both were designed with modern city planning in mind.  Both have similar grid patterns that was planned from a very early era to network outwards.  Rather than shoving a freeway (for the most part) through the heart of a developed area like an older city the freeway networks were planned more the outskirts in a beltway fashion near the areas of projected growth.  While outward growth is being gradually constrained by mountain ranges both Phoenix and Las Vegas do lie within large valleys.

Both cities have a clear radius of about 50 km with no real mountains that would constrain growth. Colorado Springs has mountains. Reno has mountains. I would even say that Bakersfield, Fresno, and Sacramento have mountains before I would say so about Las Vegas and Phoenix. Las Vegas and Phoenix barely have rivers or lakes.

[Max Rockatansky]

Phoenix and Las Vegas seem to both be going for the concept of using single numeric designations as a "Loop"  of sorts regarding freeway numbering.

Phoenix and Las Vegas can be similar because both cities aren't particularly constrained by local geography. They are, in effect, "Huge cities in the middle of nowhere". Cities on a lake (like Chicago, or Cleveland, or Buffalo), river (like most of the larger mid-West cities) or on a coast or bay (like about half of the large cities in the US) all will have quirks that make it unlikely that their freeway networks would be repeated.

Both metro areas are blocked by mountains in some places.

I would say a more accurate way of describing Phoenix and Las Vegas is that both were designed with modern city planning in mind.  Both have similar grid patterns that was planned from a very early era to network outwards.  Rather than shoving a freeway (for the most part) through the heart of a developed area like an older city the freeway networks were planned more the outskirts in a beltway fashion near the areas of projected growth.  While outward growth is being gradually constrained by mountain ranges both Phoenix and Las Vegas do lie within large valleys.

Both cities have a clear radius of about 50 km with no real mountains that would constrain growth. Colorado Springs has mountains. Reno has mountains. I would even say that Bakersfield, Fresno, and Sacramento have mountains before I would say so about Las Vegas and Phoenix. Las Vegas and Phoenix barely have rivers or lakes.

Actually Phoenix does have the Salt River which affects the grid to a large degree in the East Valley, not so much with the smaller rivers.  Sacramento and Fresno are more restricted by rivers on top of farm land than the Sierras.  Bakersfield backs right up to the Sierras on it's eastern boundary. 

[SSR_317]

The Midwest (no, NOT you St. Louis) and Big Ten RULE

I could ask how and why STL is not a Midwest city...

Simple. Illinois was part of the Northwest Territories, Missouri was not. You could never own another human being in the Midwest, while in Saint Louis you could. The Great Planes begin at the Mississippi River, where the Midwest ends.

[SSR_317]

I always thought Indy and Columbus, OH are similar...and had the Downtown Indy Loop happened, would have been moreso

They are nearly identical cities. Similar skylines, similar population,weather,etc.

To the casual observer, you might think so. However the cities are quite different. Both are state capitols, but Indianapolis is the dominant city in Indiana, while Columbus is at best Ohio's third most significant metropolis. Columbus is basically just an overgrown college town with only one major professional sports team (the Blue Jackets), while Indy has the Pacers, the Colts, and the Fever... as well as a little thing called the Indianapolis 500. Oh, I guess you can include the MLS Crew for the city named after a racist European invader, that is IF you count soccer as a "major" professional sport.    Indy has the world's largest Children's Museum, Columbus has Ohio State (for what that's worth  ). When I-465 was built in the late 1960s it was almost entirely 3 lanes in each direction, a distinction that I-270 couldn't make until the early 2000s. Another significant highway difference between the cities is that Columbus has state route freeways, while all of Indy's freeways (except for US 31 in Hamilton County) are Interstates.

All that being said, I used to work for a company based in Columbus (OH) and I have spent significant over time there. It is a pleasant city with friendly people, and except for their hang-up over the word "The"  , they are wonderful folks. Our two cities share a bond as "flyover country" to many on our coasts, but we "No Coasters" do just fine without those snobs. The Midwest (no, NOT you St. Louis) and Big Ten RULE (BTW, Indy has access to TWO Big Ten schools within 50 miles, not just one).

You leave out MLS, meanwhile, WTF are the "Fever"?

I kid the fans of soccer, it is a great sport (just not that much in THIS country). The Indiana Fever have been a major league basketball team in the WNBA for twenty years now. Now you know.

[SSR_317]

You can't just rank the WNBA as higher than the MLS. That's just not how it works.

At least according to YOU. I can rank them any way I please, you are free in this country (for now) to disagree. Now let's move on and talk about highways & transportation.

[SSR_317]

Phoenix and Las Vegas seem to both be going for the concept of using single numeric designations as a "Loop"  of sorts regarding freeway numbering.

Phoenix and Las Vegas can be similar because both cities aren't particularly constrained by local geography. They are, in effect, "Huge cities in the middle of nowhere". Cities on a lake (like Chicago, or Cleveland, or Buffalo), river (like most of the larger mid-West cities) or on a coast or bay (like about half of the large cities in the US) all will have quirks that make it unlikely that their freeway networks would be repeated.

Both metro areas are blocked by mountains in some places.

I would say a more accurate way of describing Phoenix and Las Vegas is that both were designed with modern city planning in mind.  Both have similar grid patterns that was planned from a very early era to network outwards.  Rather than shoving a freeway (for the most part) through the heart of a developed area like an older city the freeway networks were planned more the outskirts in a beltway fashion near the areas of projected growth.  While outward growth is being gradually constrained by mountain ranges both Phoenix and Las Vegas do lie within large valleys.

Both cities have a clear radius of about 50 km with no real mountains that would constrain growth. Colorado Springs has mountains. Reno has mountains. I would even say that Bakersfield, Fresno, and Sacramento have mountains before I would say so about Las Vegas and Phoenix. Las Vegas and Phoenix barely have rivers or lakes.

Actually Phoenix does have the Salt River which affects the grid to a large degree in the East Valley, not so much with the smaller rivers.  Sacramento and Fresno are more restricted by rivers on top of farm land than the Sierras.  Bakersfield backs right up to the Sierras on it's eastern boundary.

Having spent quite a bit of time in both cities over the past 35 years, I would say the factor that influenced them most would be the relative late date their freeways have been built compared to most other major metropolises in the USA. Thus, they learned SOME of the lessons that other places learned the hard way. Unfortunately, they did not learn ALL of the available lessons.

BTW, I was actually visiting Phoenix the week their original "Freeway Referendum" was passed in the 1980s.

[sprjus4]

Somewhat similar between San Antonio, TX and Indianapolis, IN when comparing the overall network and the freeways coming in and out, if you get rid of I-74 and the future I-69 southern connection, and only count the freeway segments outside the beltway. Inside, it's completely different than San Antonio.

I-465 is similar to I-410
I-65 North is similar to I-10 West
I-65 South is similar to I-37 South
I-70 West is similar to I-35 South
I-70 East is similar to I-10 East
I-69 North is similar to I-35 North
US-31 North is similar to US-281 North

[vdeane]

I was on the road yesterday and realized that Syracuse and Springfield, MA have quite a few similarities.  I-91 is like the future route of I-81 along I-481, I-391 is like an upside-down version of future business loop 81, I-291 is like I-690, and I-90 is like, well, itself.

I know I also already brought up Albany/Rochester, but I thought I'd post it again as I've refined my thoughts a bit.  I-87 is like I-390/NY 390, I-787 is like I-590/NY 590, NY 7 is like a completed NY 104, free 90 is like a flipped I-490, and the Berkshire Spur and Thruway part of I-90 are like the Thruway.  The South Mall is even kinda like NY 204, if the part of NY 204 done was the I-390 end instead of the I-490 end (sure, it connects to the interstate I related to I-590, but I did also note that free 90 is like a flipped I-490).

[Rothman]

I was on the road yesterday and realized that Syracuse and Springfield, MA have quite a few similarities.  I-91 is like the future route of I-81 along I-481, I-391 is like an upside-down version of future business loop 81, I-291 is like I-690, and I-90 is like, well, itself.

Not really.  I-91 goes right through the middle of Springfield, so it's more like current I-81.

I was actually thinking about I-291 and how it's not a bypass of Springfield the other day.  Just a shortcut to the Pike from the south.  Kind of a weird placement for it.

I-391 is just a spur into Holyoke, passing through Chicopee.

Wonder what it would have been like if I-91 had been routed on the east side of Springfield somehow (it would still need to pass through the gap between Mount Tom and the Holyoke Range).  Getting to the Big E would be a nightmare and Longmeadowans would have been ticked.

[vdeane]

I was on the road yesterday and realized that Syracuse and Springfield, MA have quite a few similarities.  I-91 is like the future route of I-81 along I-481, I-391 is like an upside-down version of future business loop 81, I-291 is like I-690, and I-90 is like, well, itself.

Not really.  I-91 goes right through the middle of Springfield, so it's more like current I-81.

I was actually thinking about I-291 and how it's not a bypass of Springfield the other day.  Just a shortcut to the Pike from the south.  Kind of a weird placement for it.

I-391 is just a spur into Holyoke, passing through Chicopee.

Wonder what it would have been like if I-91 had been routed on the east side of Springfield somehow (it would still need to pass through the gap between Mount Tom and the Holyoke Range).  Getting to the Big E would be a nightmare and Longmeadowans would have been ticked.

I was going by appearance/layout, not function, position to city centers, etc.  Like Syracuse, there is a freeway that goes north-south before abruptly veering off to the side to go around something (in this case, Holyoke) while the continuation of the north-south route does not remain a freeway back to the route that split off from it.  That's what made me think of Syracuse.  It's still not a perfect match, but that's probably why I didn't think of it until recently, whereas the Albany/Rochester comparison has been noticed for years.

Speaking of the Albany/Rochester comparison, if things like function and position relative to city centers are necessary criteria, it's out too.  Free 90 doesn't go downtown like I-490 does.

[webny99]

Speaking of the Albany/Rochester comparison, if things like function and position relative to city centers are necessary criteria, it's out too.  Free 90 doesn't go downtown like I-490 does.

I understand the Albany/Rochester comparison at a macro level, but generally I think Rochester is pretty unique in how the main 2di stays well clear of the metro (really only touching it at two points, Henrietta and Victor/Farmington), yet still has very good Interstate connectivity to the metro. Most comparisons that I can think of either have the 2di come much closer to downtown or lack the multiple outbound Interstate options that Rochester has.

[ElishaGOtis]

Since this thread has returned somewhat, here are some that I've noticed.

Constrained by Greenbelt & Water — Los Angeles, Toronto, and Miami appear to have a similar grid pattern of freeways towards the city center, but a radial setup once you leave the city limits. Bypasses and beltways exist in good numbers, but are constrained by geography (including the Oceans, Lake Ontario, Conservation Areas, etc). Similar comparisons can be made with Tampa/St Pete/Bradenton and Oakland/SF/San Jose.

Incomplete Beltways & Radial Center — Both Orlando and Denver have beltway corridors that aren't fully complete (though Wekieva will be opening soon), and sets of freeways that intersect in both downtown, and the outer suburbs. Also, the outer beltways are designed for high-speed thru movements.

Spiral Beltways (Future) — It appears that both Jacksonville and Orlando are planned to have a system of beltways that will make a spiral shape, rather than a series of concentric rings like Houston. Orlando is planned to have the Poinciana extension, and Jacksonville is planned to have I-795 and SR-23. I heard a rumor that I-795 is planned to continue along SR-23, but I don't know how that could be the case given the new alignment of SR-23. Does anyone have any more info on this?

[7/8]

Beijing and Houston. The inner ring roads are pretty square, while the outer road(s) are more circular.

[epzik8]

For Baltimore and D.C., they both obviously have their beltways, I-795 equates to I-270, I-70 lines up with I-66, and I-95 of course is I-95.

[ilpt4u]

For Baltimore and D.C., they both obviously have their beltways, I-795 equates to I-270, I-70 lines up with I-66, and I-95 of course is I-95.

And I-97 is I-595, right?