Annoying driver behavior NOT caused by incompetence

Started by CtrlAltDel, August 24, 2019, 05:07:33 PM

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Flint1979

Drivers that drive well below the speed limit for a half mile before making a turn. I mean yeah I know your making a turn but you don't have to do 40 in a 50 for a half mile before signaling and then making your turn.

I see this all the time on one stretch of Michigan highway. M-84 starts at M-58 and maintains a 35 mph speed limit for a half mile to Weiss where it jumps to 40 mph, ok fine. 2 and a half mile north of that is Tittabawassee, another major road but not a state highway. North of Tittabawassee the speed limit jumps to 50 mph but no one seems to get the memo to speed up to 50, a lot is thru traffic but a lot of the traffic turns in the 2 miles between Tittabawassee and Pierce. I just can't understand why no one can jump to 50 north of Tittabawassee.


Brandon

1. People who refuse to use the entrance ramp for a freeway as the acceleration lane it is designed to be.  It's rather unsafe, IMHO, to enter a freeway (with traffic going 60-75 mph) at 40-45 mph.

2. People who refuse to enter the intersection to make a left turn on a green ball.  It is perfectly legal in Illinois to do so, yet there are folks who refuse to do so.

3. People who brake on the freeway before getting off on an exit ramp.  I don't mean a RIRO, I mean a nice long, gradual ramp with plenty of room for slowing down on.

4. People who persist in going 5 under the limit.  This seems to be a big problem downstate Illinois for some reason.

5. People who stop to let someone in/out of a cross street/driveway when they have the right of way and traffic is moving.  I mean you, asshole school bus driver, stopping and letting the turning bus through when we are in a line of traffic moving at speed.

6. People who slow down on freeway curves when there is no logical reason to do so, and the curve is designed to be taken at speed by a fucking triple trailer or turnpike double!
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texaskdog

Quote from: Flint1979 on August 27, 2019, 05:15:58 PM
Drivers that drive well below the speed limit for a half mile before making a turn. I mean yeah I know your making a turn but you don't have to do 40 in a 50 for a half mile before signaling and then making your turn.

I see this all the time on one stretch of Michigan highway. M-84 starts at M-58 and maintains a 35 mph speed limit for a half mile to Weiss where it jumps to 40 mph, ok fine. 2 and a half mile north of that is Tittabawassee, another major road but not a state highway. North of Tittabawassee the speed limit jumps to 50 mph but no one seems to get the memo to speed up to 50, a lot is thru traffic but a lot of the traffic turns in the 2 miles between Tittabawassee and Pierce. I just can't understand why no one can jump to 50 north of Tittabawassee.

And come to a COMPLETE STOP while turning.   

Heh heh you said tittabawassee

Beltway

Quote from: Brandon on August 27, 2019, 05:19:19 PM
2. People who refuse to enter the intersection to make a left turn on a green ball.  It is perfectly legal in Illinois to do so, yet there are folks who refuse to do so.

I have heard this called "staking out a left turn" and "taking control of the intersection".

Same situation here in Virginia, perfectly legal, yet too many people refuse to do it, and in the process prevent one or two vehicles behind them from making it thru on this signal cycle.
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1995hoo

Quote from: Beltway on August 27, 2019, 08:10:49 PM
Quote from: Brandon on August 27, 2019, 05:19:19 PM
2. People who refuse to enter the intersection to make a left turn on a green ball.  It is perfectly legal in Illinois to do so, yet there are folks who refuse to do so.

I have heard this called "staking out a left turn" and "taking control of the intersection".

Same situation here in Virginia, perfectly legal, yet too many people refuse to do it, and in the process prevent one or two vehicles behind them from making it thru on this signal cycle.

Quote from: 1995hoo on August 26, 2019, 05:50:25 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on August 26, 2019, 03:42:41 PM
A) not pulling forward when turning left (it's illegal in some places and I don't expect drivers to know the law for every state);

....

For me, this is one of those things where it varies depending on where I am. In a city, I think it's far more necessary to pull forward when you want to turn left, especially if there are no green arrows or if there's no left-turn lane. In suburban driving, I find it's often a lot easier to see oncoming traffic if you don't pull out into the intersection, mainly because there are so many larger SUVs and trucks nowadays. At the intersection near our neighborhood I almost never pull out to wait because it's easier to see if I hang back, because most of the time there's so much traffic that you're going to wind up turning after it goes red and there are ALWAYS red-light runners, and because there's a reasonably long green arrow there.

Long way of saying, I definitely don't consider not pulling out into the intersection to be incompetence at all, nor do I consider it "annoying driver behavior." I find it more annoying when some turkey in a big SUV coming the other way pulls more than halfway across the intersection from his stop bar trying to stage his left turn. Stay back on your own half of the intersection!
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

RobbieL2415

I'm gonna add another one that some of you might find unsafe:

Not guarding against the Pittsburgh/Boston left.  You cannot sit there and let three or four cars turn left in front of you when you have the green.  You need to get into the intersection to cut them off.  Assert your dominance.

Beltway

Quote from: 1995hoo on August 27, 2019, 08:38:16 PM
For me, this is one of those things where it varies depending on where I am. In a city, I think it's far more necessary to pull forward when you want to turn left, especially if there are no green arrows or if there's no left-turn lane. In suburban driving, I find it's often a lot easier to see oncoming traffic if you don't pull out into the intersection, mainly because there are so many larger SUVs and trucks nowadays. At the intersection near our neighborhood I almost never pull out to wait because it's easier to see if I hang back, because most of the time there's so much traffic that you're going to wind up turning after it goes red and there are ALWAYS red-light runners, and because there's a reasonably long green arrow there.
Long way of saying, I definitely don't consider not pulling out into the intersection to be incompetence at all, nor do I consider it "annoying driver behavior." I find it more annoying when some turkey in a big SUV coming the other way pulls more than halfway across the intersection from his stop bar trying to stage his left turn. Stay back on your own half of the intersection!
OK, I respect your opinions on the matter, but a few points, 1) I make sure to keep far enough back from halfway so that an oncoming vehicle can make the same maneuver, 2) I haven't seen much difference between urban and suburban locations, 3) if there is a green arrow phase the point is moot, 4) some intersections now have the flashing yellow arrow and the same issue exists, 5) I drive a sedan so I am not at a height advantage, and 6) I am aware of the possibility of a light-runner coming the other way, that is part of defensive driving to be aware of such things.
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Rothman

Quote from: RobbieL2415 on August 27, 2019, 09:06:06 PM
I'm gonna add another one that some of you might find unsafe:

Not guarding against the Pittsburgh/Boston left.  You cannot sit there and let three or four cars turn left in front of you when you have the green.  You need to get into the intersection to cut them off.  Assert your dominance.
I have actually found the Massachusetts Left to be lessening in practice since I was a kid, but you're absolutely right.  Perhaps it is lessening because people headed straight have learned to step on it out of the gate over the decades?
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

jakeroot

Quote from: 1995hoo on August 26, 2019, 05:50:25 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on August 26, 2019, 03:42:41 PM
A) not pulling forward when turning left (it's illegal in some places and I don't expect drivers to know the law for every state);

....

For me, this is one of those things where it varies depending on where I am. In a city, I think it's far more necessary to pull forward when you want to turn left, especially if there are no green arrows or if there's no left-turn lane. In suburban driving, I find it's often a lot easier to see oncoming traffic if you don't pull out into the intersection, mainly because there are so many larger SUVs and trucks nowadays. At the intersection near our neighborhood I almost never pull out to wait because it's easier to see if I hang back, because most of the time there's so much traffic that you're going to wind up turning after it goes red and there are ALWAYS red-light runners, and because there's a reasonably long green arrow there.

Long way of saying, I definitely don't consider not pulling out into the intersection to be incompetence at all, nor do I consider it "annoying driver behavior." I find it more annoying when some turkey in a big SUV coming the other way pulls more than halfway across the intersection from his stop bar trying to stage his left turn. Stay back on your own half of the intersection!

I've never noticed a difference between suburban and urban intersections, except that suburban intersections tend to be wider, and can usually fit more cars in the intersection during the permissive phase. I understand that there are larger cars on the road than there used to be; I drive a Golf. But they're not necessarily much wider, and I'm usually looking around cars, not over them. And yes, there can be people who pull too far forward, but I haven't noticed that as an issue. To be honest, I always pull forward to about halfway, sometimes farther on accident.

For me, it seems strange to drive differently based on the region of driving. A permissive left is a permissive left, no matter where. To willingly wait behind the line and miss the light makes little sense. At the very least, just pull forward and turn when the light goes yellow/red. This happens a lot in Vancouver along roads without turn lanes. It's difficult to see around oncoming cars, so you end up waiting until the light turns red to turn. Problem is, if you don't pull forward during green, it's not always legal to enter when it turns yellow/red (in some states (not all).

RobbieL2415

Quote from: Rothman on August 28, 2019, 08:23:32 AM
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on August 27, 2019, 09:06:06 PM
I'm gonna add another one that some of you might find unsafe:

Not guarding against the Pittsburgh/Boston left.  You cannot sit there and let three or four cars turn left in front of you when you have the green.  You need to get into the intersection to cut them off.  Assert your dominance.
I have actually found the Massachusetts Left to be lessening in practice since I was a kid, but you're absolutely right.  Perhaps it is lessening because people headed straight have learned to step on it out of the gate over the decades?
Well it is safer to not force your way into the intersection.  But I've found that most people don't look at the light when they're turning left and instead at the car in front of them.  So you get people turning because "the guy in front was".

jeffandnicole

I've been driving for over 25 years, and I've yet to encounter a case where I've been in an intersection with an emergency vehicle approaching that I'm now blocking, or a case where a red light runner hit me.  I can, however, count a number of times where I was on the road, and I had to somehow get out of the way because a cop or ambulance had to fight their way thru traffic due to lack of a shoulder, or even a wrong way driver such as what I saw this past Monday.

Thus, based on this, it's safer to always enter an intersection to wait, vs actually driving in the normal travel lanes.

I think people tend to make excuses why we shouldn't do something on the off chance there's an issue.  If it's unsafe for someone to wait in the middle of an intersection (where I'm stopped and can easily look around), isn't it just as unsafe to travel straight thru the intersection in the first place (where I'm probably entering at a fast enough speed that I don't have time to see any cross traffic)?

kphoger

Drivers, who have stopped on the shoulder of a highway, pulling immediately out into the travel lanes from 0 mph.  Safer practice is to use the shoulder as an acceleration lane, then enter the travel lanes at closer to the speed of traffic.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

webny99

Quote from: Brandon on August 27, 2019, 05:19:19 PM
5. People who stop to let someone in/out of a cross street/driveway when they have the right of way and traffic is moving.  I mean you, asshole school bus driver, stopping and letting the turning bus through when we are in a line of traffic moving at speed.

I am guilty of doing this at two, maybe three select locations. However, not when moving at speed. Only when overcapacity is such that the whole stream is moving at 10-15 mph, and they are likely to give up and turn right before they ever get a gap.

Flint1979

Quote from: texaskdog on August 27, 2019, 05:53:51 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on August 27, 2019, 05:15:58 PM
Drivers that drive well below the speed limit for a half mile before making a turn. I mean yeah I know your making a turn but you don't have to do 40 in a 50 for a half mile before signaling and then making your turn.

I see this all the time on one stretch of Michigan highway. M-84 starts at M-58 and maintains a 35 mph speed limit for a half mile to Weiss where it jumps to 40 mph, ok fine. 2 and a half mile north of that is Tittabawassee, another major road but not a state highway. North of Tittabawassee the speed limit jumps to 50 mph but no one seems to get the memo to speed up to 50, a lot is thru traffic but a lot of the traffic turns in the 2 miles between Tittabawassee and Pierce. I just can't understand why no one can jump to 50 north of Tittabawassee.

And come to a COMPLETE STOP while turning.   

Heh heh you said tittabawassee
It's a fun word to spell lol. We have a more common name in Michigan that's fun to say. Gratiot lol. I remember I had a GPS awhile back and it would pronounce Gratiot as Grad-I-ott it's really pronounced Gra-shit lmao.

skluth

I get annoyed by drivers who bizarrely feel a need to pass me, then pull back into my lane and slow down below what I was driving. I can understand this if I'm not paying attention and camp out in the left lane. I'm just having a senior moment and move right as quickly as possible. But when I'm in the right lane already, it's really annoying.

I've also never seen this, but I'd probably blast my horn if I did.

RobbieL2415

Quote from: webny99 on August 28, 2019, 02:11:51 PM
Quote from: Brandon on August 27, 2019, 05:19:19 PM
5. People who stop to let someone in/out of a cross street/driveway when they have the right of way and traffic is moving.  I mean you, asshole school bus driver, stopping and letting the turning bus through when we are in a line of traffic moving at speed.

I am guilty of doing this at two, maybe three select locations. However, not when moving at speed. Only when overcapacity is such that the whole stream is moving at 10-15 mph, and they are likely to give up and turn right before they ever get a gap.
They do this when busses are leaving my town's high school.  Busses who leave from one entrance stop to let the others out that the second entrance.  I've always said that if that ever happens to me, I will lay down the horn obnoxiously.

webny99

Quote from: RobbieL2415 on August 28, 2019, 02:34:11 PM
Quote from: webny99 on August 28, 2019, 02:11:51 PM
Quote from: Brandon on August 27, 2019, 05:19:19 PM
5. People who stop to let someone in/out of a cross street/driveway when they have the right of way and traffic is moving.  I mean you, asshole school bus driver, stopping and letting the turning bus through when we are in a line of traffic moving at speed.
I am guilty of doing this at two, maybe three select locations. However, not when moving at speed. Only when overcapacity is such that the whole stream is moving at 10-15 mph, and they are likely to give up and turn right before they ever get a gap.
They do this when busses are leaving my town's high school.  Busses who leave from one entrance stop to let the others out that the second entrance.  I've always said that if that ever happens to me, I will lay down the horn obnoxiously.

Same thing happens at a school near me. If you were a bus driver and that's what you did for a living, you'd probably do the same thing. They're on a schedule, and I'm pretty sure they know what's most efficient for the system as a whole. You just can't expect normal priorities to apply when driving near a school at arrival or dismissal time.

kphoger

Quote from: webny99 on August 28, 2019, 02:11:51 PM

Quote from: Brandon on August 27, 2019, 05:19:19 PM
5. People who stop to let someone in/out of a cross street/driveway when they have the right of way and traffic is moving.  I mean you, asshole school bus driver, stopping and letting the turning bus through when we are in a line of traffic moving at speed.

I am guilty of doing this at two, maybe three select locations. However, not when moving at speed. Only when overcapacity is such that the whole stream is moving at 10-15 mph, and they are likely to give up and turn right before they ever get a gap.

I occasionally let people through, but I've almost entirely stopped letting people through more than one lane, because that's just asking for someone to get T-boned.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

1995hoo

I was out driving earlier today and two common occurrences struck me as being the sort of thing that are not due to incompetence so much as they are to either being inconsiderate or just not paying attention:

(1) Not moving when the light turns green. Pretty much every time I drive I wind up honking at someone at a green light at least once. I try to beep the horn lightly first, only going to a horn blast if a beep doesn't work. (Today a beep didn't work.) It surprises me how many people around here do not honk in that situation. Do they plan to sit there indefinitely?

(2) Leaving a full carlength or more when stopped at a red light. It's annoying because it often results in blocking access to the turn lanes. I think it's caused by people being overly eager to come to a stop so they can play with their phones. I've beeped the horn to try to get people to move up so I can get into a turn lane (combined with having my blinker on and, if necessary, using hand gestures to indicate I'm trying to get to the other lane). Several times the response has been a raised middle finger. Hence once reason why I think it's not incompetence but is instead a sign of being inconsiderate.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

kphoger

Quote from: 1995hoo on August 28, 2019, 03:30:27 PM
(1) Not moving when the light turns green. Pretty much every time I drive I wind up honking at someone at a green light at least once. I try to beep the horn lightly first, only going to a horn blast if a beep doesn't work. (Today a beep didn't work.) It surprises me how many people around here do not honk in that situation. Do they plan to sit there indefinitely?

I don't honk the horn if there are only two or three of us at the light because, even if it takes a little while for the other driver to catch on, we'll all still make it through OK.  If there are more drivers, then I'll honk.

Quote from: 1995hoo on August 28, 2019, 03:30:27 PM
(2) Leaving a full carlength or more when stopped at a red light. It's annoying because it often results in blocking access to the turn lanes. I think it's caused by people being overly eager to come to a stop so they can play with their phones. I've beeped the horn to try to get people to move up so I can get into a turn lane (combined with having my blinker on and, if necessary, using hand gestures to indicate I'm trying to get to the other lane). Several times the response has been a raised middle finger. Hence once reason why I think it's not incompetence but is instead a sign of being inconsiderate.

I knew someone who kept a greater distance because she wanted to be farther away from the exhaust coming out of the car in front of her–especially with a baby in the car.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

1995hoo

She should just turn on the recirculation function on her HVAC while she's stopped if she worries about that.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

lstone19

Quote from: 1995hoo on August 28, 2019, 03:30:27 PM
(2) Leaving a full carlength or more when stopped at a red light. It's annoying because it often results in blocking access to the turn lanes. I think it's caused by people being overly eager to come to a stop so they can play with their phones. I've beeped the horn to try to get people to move up so I can get into a turn lane (combined with having my blinker on and, if necessary, using hand gestures to indicate I'm trying to get to the other lane). Several times the response has been a raised middle finger. Hence once reason why I think it's not incompetence but is instead a sign of being inconsiderate.

Worse, if they then aren't paying attention, the gap between them and the car ahead can be long enough over the detector to lose the light.

jp the roadgeek

1. Drivers on a 4+ lane highway who remain in the far right (or left for a left entrance) lane near an entrance ramp even though the other 2+ lanes in that direction are clear.

2. Cars that on a one-lane road pull so far to the right to make a left hand turn that they cause an entire line of traffic to form behind them.

3. Tailgating so close that I can't see the headlights of the car behind me.

4. People who flash their high beams to get me to move over, even though I'm doing 10+ miles over the limit.

5. People who drive in your blind spot for an extended period.
Interstates I've clinched: 97, 290 (MA), 291 (CT), 291 (MA), 293, 295 (DE-NJ-PA), 295 (RI-MA), 384, 391, 395 (CT-MA), 395 (MD), 495 (DE), 610 (LA), 684, 691, 695 (MD), 695 (NY), 795 (MD)

SectorZ

Quote from: Rothman on August 28, 2019, 08:23:32 AM
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on August 27, 2019, 09:06:06 PM
I'm gonna add another one that some of you might find unsafe:

Not guarding against the Pittsburgh/Boston left.  You cannot sit there and let three or four cars turn left in front of you when you have the green.  You need to get into the intersection to cut them off.  Assert your dominance.
I have actually found the Massachusetts Left to be lessening in practice since I was a kid, but you're absolutely right.  Perhaps it is lessening because people headed straight have learned to step on it out of the gate over the decades?

It's still bad but getting better. I deal with it so much as a cyclist, with a mind-numbed driver beside me letting the left-turner oncoming go while I am proceeding thru. I've "interacted" with a few before, and they tend to be more of the overly defensive driver type.

I got a laugh as an auto adjuster out of the few left-turners that caused an accident and felt they did nothing wrong. A large deductible and hundreds of dollars more per year in premium shed them of that delusion quickly.

kphoger

Quote from: kphoger on August 28, 2019, 03:34:45 PM

Quote from: 1995hoo on August 28, 2019, 03:30:27 PM
(2) Leaving a full carlength or more when stopped at a red light. It's annoying because it often results in blocking access to the turn lanes. I think it's caused by people being overly eager to come to a stop so they can play with their phones. I've beeped the horn to try to get people to move up so I can get into a turn lane (combined with having my blinker on and, if necessary, using hand gestures to indicate I'm trying to get to the other lane). Several times the response has been a raised middle finger. Hence once reason why I think it's not incompetence but is instead a sign of being inconsiderate.

I knew someone who kept a greater distance because she wanted to be farther away from the exhaust coming out of the car in front of her–especially with a baby in the car.

Quote from: 1995hoo on August 28, 2019, 03:39:01 PM
She should just turn on the recirculation function on her HVAC while she's stopped if she worries about that.

Or just leave a gap at stoplights.  Switching the recirc on and off at every stoplight seems like it would be a bit of a fuss when driving in city traffic.

FWIW, I'm not sure I agree with the practice.  I'm just saying I know of at least one semi-valid reason for doing so.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.



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