I-86 before given to NYS for NY 17's conversion to interstate was short lived in CT where I-84 now goes east of I-384. As I-84 for some time was to continue eastward along US 6 into Providence, hence the Williamantic Bypass that was to be part of it. For that time period I-86 was given to all of I-84 east of I-384 into MA where it ended in Southbridge as does I-84 into the Mass Pike.
I do remember seeing as a child on an old Exxon map that there was a proposed I-86 extension that would have had that designation heading south of the current I-84 & I-384 intersection and tying into I-91 someplace south of Hartford. I was wondering if CT 3, the short freeway from I-91 to CT 2 was ever part of that proposal that actually got built, but being I-86 got decommissioned and that it connects to no other interstate from I-91 that CT decided to just give it a state number and not apply for even an odd three digit designation.
Indeed, the CT 3 expressway was part of the proposed I-86 extension. It was "temporarily" signed as CT 3 when the (tolled until the 1980's) Putnam Bridge was built in the late 1950's , and was originally slated to become I-491. I-84 to Providence was listed as I-82 in the planning stages, with I-84 remaining on its current route, but a change had I-84 going to Providence, with I-86 taking the East Hartford-Sturbridge route. Included in the proposal, the I-86 designation would replace I-491 for the proposed expressway. The proposal was cancelled in the early 1970's, and the CT 3 designation remains to this day (there was a slight extension of CT 3 in the 1980's to tie directly to CT 2; CT 3 used to end at Main St in Glastonbury.
I also remember well seeing the sign that Pete from Boston uses as his avatar. Used to be by the closed down Showcase Cinemas just east of the Roberts St exit on I-84 in East Hartford (there was one in the opposite direction that said "86 Ends/84 to Hartford). There also used to be an exit to Forbes St which was closed when the I-84/I-384 interchange was built.
Come to think of it, I do remember seeing that I-384 was not connected to its parent even after the switchback of numbers. So yes I-84 defaulted at a place along the freeway changing numbers as no interchange was there to be a reference as to where.
It was an old newsweek atlas my dad got as a free gift. I may still have that.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fctbythenumbers.info%2Ffiles%2F2013%2F06%2F86-84.jpg&hash=e3bc6ba3ee3ed95ce74a0d1a6b5d4972c247e7ce)
^^^^
That is one dirty windshield!
Quote from: qguy on November 23, 2017, 11:25:36 AM
^^^^
That is one dirty windshield!
Heh. Yeah. I didn't take the picture, but it's about the only one I can find online of a real Connecticut/Massachusetts I-86 sign.
could be low resolution also. The road was originally CT Route 15. Remember the near decade long "reconstruction" from the mid seventies at the MA/CT state line, and ending just east of Hartford a decade later. Lots of neat stuff, new signs, concrete pavement (likely all covered now) and futuristic bridges near Hartford.
"Low resolution"? It's primarily a question of what scanner was used, since any photo taken back then would have been with a film camera (whether print, slide, Polaroid, whatever, but it would have had to have been scanned in to get it online).
Those signs were up from about 1985-1990. I remember one in Farmington between Exits 37 and 39 on I-84 eastbound.
IIRC, it was somewhere around 1982-83 when I-84 was reinstated on the former Wilbur Cross Parkway (old CT 15) northeast from Hartford into MA after the Hartford-Providence Interstate routing originally approved as part of the 1968 group of Interstate additions was cancelled due to environmental concerns in western RI (but likely with a smattering of NIMBY objections in both states figuring into the equation).
Defunct...well, there's a new I-86 in upstate NY (formerly SR 17) and another I-86 in ID - rename it to 92, actually a proposed I-92 in VT and NH with a wikipedia article to prove it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East%E2%80%93West_Highway_(New_England)
The ID I-86 can be renumbered I-13, except this is a cursed number if you believe in superstitions. Anyways, it's nice to learn more about our nation's interstate system.
^ First off, I wouldn't use Wikipedia as a local source unless they have specific references within the article (and that Wikipedia article doesn't...Steve Anderson's website notwithstanding). Second, "I-92" has been dead in Vermont for 20 years.
Quote from: froggie on November 23, 2017, 07:43:55 PM
^ First off, I wouldn't use Wikipedia as a local source unless they have specific references within the article (and that Wikipedia article doesn't...Steve Anderson's website notwithstanding). Second, "I-92" has been dead in Vermont for 20 years.
Desert Man's comment also puzzled me because he seems to be doubting the use of the word "defunct" because of the New York and Idaho I-86s. But there is no disputing that
Connecticut's I-86 (the subject of this thread) has been gone since the early 1980s!
Found this online.
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7316/27061619703_90259f7f7a_b.jpg)
Quote from: sparker on November 23, 2017, 01:28:21 PM
IIRC, it was somewhere around 1982-83 when I-84 was reinstated on the former Wilbur Cross Parkway (old CT 15) northeast from Hartford into MA after the Hartford-Providence Interstate routing originally approved as part of the 1968 group of Interstate additions was cancelled due to environmental concerns in western RI (but likely with a smattering of NIMBY objections in both states figuring into the equation).
Actually, it was 1985 when Although changing the I-86 designation between Hartford to Sturbridge back to I-84 was approved by AASHTO in mid-1984, signs weren't changed until early 1985. I recall that MassDPW issued a press release announcing the change. They also formally removed the MA 15 designation from the highway, with the result that the MA 15 shields on the signs at MassPike Interchange 9 were changed to US 20 shields - something I always found curious, as US 20 doesn't go to either Hartford or NY City.
And the road north (east) of Hartford was designated the Wilbur Cross Highway, not the Wilbur Cross Parkway.
h/t to sparker for clarification on the dates
Kurumi says the number was changed in December 1984 (http://www.kurumi.com/roads/ct/i86.html), though obviously for practical reasons the signage change would have taken longer.
The interesting thing is that I remember seeing signs in MA about the change first before I saw them in CT. I saw the Notice sign on I-84 in Sturbridge in July of '84 on the way to the Cape before I saw them in CT a few months later. I only traveled the two freeway sections of what are now I-384 and US 6 once when they were signed I-84.
Quote from: roadman on November 24, 2017, 12:45:19 PM
Although changing the I-86 designation between Hartford to Sturbridge back to I-84 was approved by AASHTO in mid-1984, signs weren't changed until early 1985. I recall that MassDPW issued a press release announcing the change. They also formally removed the MA 15 designation from the highway, with the result that the MA 15 shields on the signs at MassPike Interchange 9 were changed to US 20 shields - something I always found curious, as US 20 doesn't go to either Hartford or NY City.
And the road north (east) of Hartford was designated the Wilbur Cross Highway, not the Wilbur Cross Parkway.
I thought I had seen I-84 shields (re-)applied to the Wilbur Cross
Highway in the '84 edition of the RmcN atlas; did not have the opportunity to drive on that highway until '89 (thus my extrapolation of the designation-change dates as preceding publication of that years' atlas). Since I was also corrected on the actual name of the facility -- and didn't have any personal experience prior to the rebuilding/expansion of the highway -- was there any quantitative difference in standards, geometry, or details between the Wilbur Cross
Parkway and
Highway prior to the reconstruction east of Hartford? I
have driven on the Wilbur Cross Parkway (the same trip that ended up on the "Highway" portion) and noted that, in terms of physical standards, seemed similar to the Merritt Parkway close to that highway, but as it progressed NE, it began to "open up" with wider medians and more convention interchanges. Just wondering what it looked like heading up into MA in its early days!
Quote from: 1995hoo on November 24, 2017, 10:05:33 AM
Quote from: froggie on November 23, 2017, 07:43:55 PM
^ First off, I wouldn't use Wikipedia as a local source unless they have specific references within the article (and that Wikipedia article doesn't...Steve Anderson's website notwithstanding). Second, "I-92" has been dead in Vermont for 20 years.
Desert Man's comment also puzzled me because he seems to be doubting the use of the word "defunct" because of the New York and Idaho I-86s. But there is no disputing that Connecticut's I-86 (the subject of this thread) has been gone since the early 1980s!
Right on in CT that designation is defunct. Despite it being in ID and now in NY and PA, its not part of it and gone long before NYS got approval from AASHTO.
It took many adjoining states several years to update their "regional" maps from 86 to 84. To this date, the "84" numerals on the regional inset map for the official Vermont map are slightly offset.
I-84 from the I-384 jct, east to Vernon still retains its concrete pavement and most of the signage from when the road was rebuilt. Ironically, the Exit 61 signs (for I-291, which opened c 1994) were done in the same style as adjacent signage. There is no button copy on mainline guide signs anywhere east of Exit 57. This is odd because in 1994, ConnDOT was in full grasp of reflective button copy. Some of the oldest signs in the state are on the stretch between Exits 57-63.
Maybe 84 to Providence should have been Interstate 82. Come to think of it, I remember reading somewhere that an 82 designation was once proposed for the unbuilt corridor. Is that accurate?
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on November 25, 2017, 12:41:52 PM
Maybe 84 to Providence should have been Interstate 82. Come to think of it, I remember reading somewhere that an 82 designation was once proposed for the unbuilt corridor. Is that accurate?
It was listed as I-82 during the planning stages, but later it was agreed that it would be a rerouted I-84 and the then (and once again) I-84 became I-86. I did post a fictional idea for an eastern I-82 that extends I-691 along the CT 66 corridor, the I-84 to Providence route, I-195 to Wareham and to MA 3/US 6 at the Sagamore Bridge. As part of it, I-384 would be extended to Windham.
Quote from: sparker on November 24, 2017, 02:52:38 PM
Quote from: roadman on November 24, 2017, 12:45:19 PM
Although changing the I-86 designation between Hartford to Sturbridge back to I-84 was approved by AASHTO in mid-1984, signs weren't changed until early 1985. I recall that MassDPW issued a press release announcing the change. They also formally removed the MA 15 designation from the highway, with the result that the MA 15 shields on the signs at MassPike Interchange 9 were changed to US 20 shields - something I always found curious, as US 20 doesn't go to either Hartford or NY City.
And the road north (east) of Hartford was designated the Wilbur Cross Highway, not the Wilbur Cross Parkway.
I thought I had seen I-84 shields (re-)applied to the Wilbur Cross Highway in the '84 edition of the RmcN atlas; did not have the opportunity to drive on that highway until '89 (thus my extrapolation of the designation-change dates as preceding publication of that years' atlas). Since I was also corrected on the actual name of the facility -- and didn't have any personal experience prior to the rebuilding/expansion of the highway -- was there any quantitative difference in standards, geometry, or details between the Wilbur Cross Parkway and Highway prior to the reconstruction east of Hartford? I have driven on the Wilbur Cross Parkway (the same trip that ended up on the "Highway" portion) and noted that, in terms of physical standards, seemed similar to the Merritt Parkway close to that highway, but as it progressed NE, it began to "open up" with wider medians and more convention interchanges. Just wondering what it looked like heading up into MA in its early days!
There were still pit latrines at the "rest areas" on the pre-reconstruction Rte 15/I-86 in the early/mid seventies as i recall. The bridges (overpasses) in the extreme NE Connecticut stretch appear to have been replaced prior to the mid seventies-mid eighties overhaul. Possibly mid sixties.
Quote from: DJStephens on November 26, 2017, 10:19:52 AM
Quote from: sparker on November 24, 2017, 02:52:38 PM
Quote from: roadman on November 24, 2017, 12:45:19 PM
Although changing the I-86 designation between Hartford to Sturbridge back to I-84 was approved by AASHTO in mid-1984, signs weren't changed until early 1985. I recall that MassDPW issued a press release announcing the change. They also formally removed the MA 15 designation from the highway, with the result that the MA 15 shields on the signs at MassPike Interchange 9 were changed to US 20 shields - something I always found curious, as US 20 doesn't go to either Hartford or NY City.
And the road north (east) of Hartford was designated the Wilbur Cross Highway, not the Wilbur Cross Parkway.
I thought I had seen I-84 shields (re-)applied to the Wilbur Cross Highway in the '84 edition of the RmcN atlas; did not have the opportunity to drive on that highway until '89 (thus my extrapolation of the designation-change dates as preceding publication of that years' atlas). Since I was also corrected on the actual name of the facility -- and didn't have any personal experience prior to the rebuilding/expansion of the highway -- was there any quantitative difference in standards, geometry, or details between the Wilbur Cross Parkway and Highway prior to the reconstruction east of Hartford? I have driven on the Wilbur Cross Parkway (the same trip that ended up on the "Highway" portion) and noted that, in terms of physical standards, seemed similar to the Merritt Parkway close to that highway, but as it progressed NE, it began to "open up" with wider medians and more convention interchanges. Just wondering what it looked like heading up into MA in its early days!
There were still pit latrines at the "rest areas" on the pre-reconstruction Rte 15/I-86 in the early/mid seventies as i recall. The bridges (overpasses) in the extreme NE Connecticut stretch appear to have been replaced prior to the mid seventies-mid eighties overhaul. Possibly mid sixties.
Question to anyone who may know: were the
original bridges (pre first replacement in the '60's) on the Cross Highway/CT 15 in NE CT similar to the brick/stone structures found on the Merritt and the lower (SW) segments of the Cross
Parkway? If so, and any historic pix are available, that would be pretty neat!
I would pay to see a photo of the sign I have recreated as my avatar or its westbound counterpart.
Quote from: sparker on November 26, 2017, 03:46:42 PM
Quote from: DJStephens on November 26, 2017, 10:19:52 AM
Quote from: sparker on November 24, 2017, 02:52:38 PM
Quote from: roadman on November 24, 2017, 12:45:19 PM
Although changing the I-86 designation between Hartford to Sturbridge back to I-84 was approved by AASHTO in mid-1984, signs weren't changed until early 1985. I recall that MassDPW issued a press release announcing the change. They also formally removed the MA 15 designation from the highway, with the result that the MA 15 shields on the signs at MassPike Interchange 9 were changed to US 20 shields - something I always found curious, as US 20 doesn't go to either Hartford or NY City.
And the road north (east) of Hartford was designated the Wilbur Cross Highway, not the Wilbur Cross Parkway.
I thought I had seen I-84 shields (re-)applied to the Wilbur Cross Highway in the '84 edition of the RmcN atlas; did not have the opportunity to drive on that highway until '89 (thus my extrapolation of the designation-change dates as preceding publication of that years' atlas). Since I was also corrected on the actual name of the facility -- and didn't have any personal experience prior to the rebuilding/expansion of the highway -- was there any quantitative difference in standards, geometry, or details between the Wilbur Cross Parkway and Highway prior to the reconstruction east of Hartford? I have driven on the Wilbur Cross Parkway (the same trip that ended up on the "Highway" portion) and noted that, in terms of physical standards, seemed similar to the Merritt Parkway close to that highway, but as it progressed NE, it began to "open up" with wider medians and more convention interchanges. Just wondering what it looked like heading up into MA in its early days!
There were still pit latrines at the "rest areas" on the pre-reconstruction Rte 15/I-86 in the early/mid seventies as i recall. The bridges (overpasses) in the extreme NE Connecticut stretch appear to have been replaced prior to the mid seventies-mid eighties overhaul. Possibly mid sixties.
Question to anyone who may know: were the original bridges (pre first replacement in the '60's) on the Cross Highway/CT 15 in NE CT similar to the brick/stone structures found on the Merritt and the lower (SW) segments of the Cross Parkway? If so, and any historic pix are available, that would be pretty neat!
"Original" is a tough call, but the pre-1984 overpasses in Manchester and Vernon were not.