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New Jersey

Started by Alps, September 17, 2013, 07:00:19 PM

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roadman65

Does the Garden State Parkway still use the square heads on their post toll signals at the coin drops?
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe


D-Dey65

Quote from: storm2k on August 09, 2022, 02:37:51 AM
What a great trove of old pictures. A lot of black on white enamel panels of yore, for sure, but lots of gems nonetheless.


This one on 46 at the spaghetti bowl (back when it was more of an elongated ovalish circle) is great. The route signs look like oversized props or something, but that was a thing they did. Maybe NJDOT should do this at the western end of 139 where it meets 1-9 since they took down the LGSs and just left shields to direct motorists.
I guess today's NJDOT doesn't care that they have a tree blocking an interstate shield.

Do you know what would be great from that site? A collection that includes the old neon VMS signs on the New Jersey Turnpike.


roadman65

Why didn't the Skyway Rehabilitation Project include overheads at the Tonnelle Avenue exit?
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

famartin

Quote from: roadman65 on August 10, 2022, 04:20:52 PM
Why didn't the Skyway Rehabilitation Project include overheads at the Tonnelle Avenue exit?

What do you mean exactly?

roadman65

Quote from: famartin on August 10, 2022, 04:47:38 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on August 10, 2022, 04:20:52 PM
Why didn't the Skyway Rehabilitation Project include overheads at the Tonnelle Avenue exit?

What do you mean exactly?

That project to rebuild the Skyway.  Why didn't it erect signs there at NJ 139's west end when the long underpass got rebuilt.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe


roadman65

The area around JFK overpass was under construction.  The project should have included overheads for the pre skyway ramps. 
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

akotchi

Due to age and condition, the bridge parapet could not take on anything more than the flat panel assemblies that are there now.  Having been involved on that project, I know that larger signs were desired.  It is better than what was there before.
Opinions here attributed to me are mine alone and do not reflect those of my employer or the agencies for which I am contracted to do work.

roadman65

#3983
Quote from: akotchi on August 10, 2022, 06:57:31 PM
Due to age and condition, the bridge parapet could not take on anything more than the flat panel assemblies that are there now.  Having been involved on that project, I know that larger signs were desired.  It is better than what was there before.

Ahh. Gantries? They could be erected, let's say in front of the age old overpass.


Anyway what's up with Google showing an exit for St. Paul's Avenue from NJ 7 which GSV doesn't show consistency with?


Edit: Never mind. Google still is using 2013 imagery.  Not to mention I tap on the year bar, and no options for previous or later years. So I assume 2013 was Googles only run at this?

https://goo.gl/maps/G3WEMqyTGinPf8HE9
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

akotchi

That was also considered, but there was not a suitable location to place either a cantilever or a gantry.  The roadway in this area transitions to a viaduct, which factored into the decision.  What is there, while not ideal, was the best we could come up with.  Putting nothing there, or leaving what was there, were not options.  Thank you for your concern.

StreetView on St. Pauls Ave. is more recent, so the new ramp under construction shows there.  It is part of the Wittpenn Bridge project.
Opinions here attributed to me are mine alone and do not reflect those of my employer or the agencies for which I am contracted to do work.

famartin

Quote from: roadman65 on August 10, 2022, 06:47:39 PM
The area around JFK overpass was under construction.  The project should have included overheads for the pre skyway ramps.

Around it, yes, but the actual overpass and the immediate vicinity still look pretty old.

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7389868,-74.0618492,3a,75y,286.69h,86.41t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sVEGsYrTLqu3zUfDoth1O9g!2e0!5s20211001T000000!7i16384!8i8192

Pretty much everything you can see in that view is old, and that area appears to have mostly been avoided. I imagine that at some point, the overpass itself will need replacement, and there will be better signs placed then. When that is, who is to say except NJDOT...

akotchi

It was a sort of no man's land between two contracts.  I think there is a project under design to replace that bridge – not sure where it is in the pipeline.
Opinions here attributed to me are mine alone and do not reflect those of my employer or the agencies for which I am contracted to do work.

roadman65

#3987
Quote from: famartin on August 10, 2022, 07:29:41 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on August 10, 2022, 06:47:39 PM
The area around JFK overpass was under construction.  The project should have included overheads for the pre skyway ramps.

Around it, yes, but the actual overpass and the immediate vicinity still look pretty old.

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7389868,-74.0618492,3a,75y,286.69h,86.41t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sVEGsYrTLqu3zUfDoth1O9g!2e0!5s20211001T000000!7i16384!8i8192

Pretty much everything you can see in that view is old, and that area appears to have mostly been avoided. I imagine that at some point, the overpass itself will need replacement, and there will be better signs placed then. When that is, who is to say except NJDOT...
NJDOT still could have factored it in the cost of the two projects. I doubt that overpass will soon be replaced.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

roadman65

Quote from: akotchi on August 10, 2022, 07:18:15 PM
That was also considered, but there was not a suitable location to place either a cantilever or a gantry.  The roadway in this area transitions to a viaduct, which factored into the decision.  What is there, while not ideal, was the best we could come up with.  Putting nothing there, or leaving what was there, were not options.  Thank you for your concern.

StreetView on St. Pauls Ave. is more recent, so the new ramp under construction shows there.  It is part of the Wittpenn Bridge project.

They can drive a long support over the side to support a cantilever unless the state eventually plans to remove the bridge over the abandoned Erie Tracks?

Also why can’t smaller signs be placed on the new beams to support the Hoboken Avenue (NJ 139U) viaduct over NJ 139 being the lack of space to install in the underpass, hence why no 1 mile guides for the Tonnelle Circle exit.  A lgs can be supported on them with no compromise on integrity.


Plus there is no access anymore to US 1-9 Truck from JFK Blvd. now since the new roads installed between the Circle and Wittpenn Bridge reconfigured, no access to the truck alignment from the ramp leading down to the Circle from JFK.  TO shields directing are definitely needed for Truckers.

Place one at Tonnelle Ave SB in the Circle that reads TRUCK US 1-9 SOUTH to turn left onto SB Tonnelle followed by another at St. Paul’s Ave. WB leading to the ramp to SB US 1-9T.  Then another on JFK at St Paul’s wouldn’t hurt either especially  to help NB JFK trucks navigate the now missing move.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

akotchi

Quote from: roadman65 on August 11, 2022, 08:55:07 AM
Quote from: akotchi on August 10, 2022, 07:18:15 PM
That was also considered, but there was not a suitable location to place either a cantilever or a gantry.  The roadway in this area transitions to a viaduct, which factored into the decision.  What is there, while not ideal, was the best we could come up with.  Putting nothing there, or leaving what was there, were not options.  Thank you for your concern.

StreetView on St. Pauls Ave. is more recent, so the new ramp under construction shows there.  It is part of the Wittpenn Bridge project.

They can drive a long support over the side to support a cantilever unless the state eventually plans to remove the bridge over the abandoned Erie Tracks?

Also why can't smaller signs be placed on the new beams to support the Hoboken Avenue (NJ 139U) viaduct over NJ 139 being the lack of space to install in the underpass, hence why no 1 mile guides for the Tonnelle Circle exit.  A lgs can be supported on them with no compromise on integrity.


Plus there is no access anymore to US 1-9 Truck from JFK Blvd. now since the new roads installed between the Circle and Wittpenn Bridge reconfigured, no access to the truck alignment from the ramp leading down to the Circle from JFK.  TO shields directing are definitely needed for Truckers.

Place one at Tonnelle Ave SB in the Circle that reads TRUCK US 1-9 SOUTH to turn left onto SB Tonnelle followed by another at St. Paul's Ave. WB leading to the ramp to SB US 1-9T.  Then another on JFK at St Paul's wouldn't hurt either especially  to help NB JFK trucks navigate the now missing move.
I am guessing that the designers on the adjacent Route 139 project had their reasons to not provide further guide signing in that area.  My purview generally stopped at JFK, except for coordination of activities east of there with the adjacent project.

The original St. Pauls Viaduct (U.S. 1&9T between the circles) Replacement project included a set of trailblazer assemblies for the JFK-Truck 1&9 movement in the design.  Historic StreetView shows some vestiges of those assemblies -- 2013 era.  Guessing these signs got knocked down over the years and not replaced.  Skyway-related detours may have also taken down some of those assemblies.  The rerouting did not involve using the circle or Tonnele Ave. SB, as trucks cannot easily make the right turn from Tonnele Ave. to St. Pauls Ave.
Opinions here attributed to me are mine alone and do not reflect those of my employer or the agencies for which I am contracted to do work.

NE2

Quote from: Alps on August 09, 2022, 11:19:23 PM
Quote from: storm2k on August 09, 2022, 02:37:51 AM
What a great trove of old pictures. A lot of black on white enamel panels of yore, for sure, but lots of gems nonetheless.


This one on 46 at the spaghetti bowl (back when it was more of an elongated ovalish circle) is great.
This one never made any sense. Look at historic aerials and tell me where there is any setup that would have north 23 left, south 23 right, and west 46 straight.
It's claimed to be from 1966, at which time the aerial shows it was being rebuilt as an interchange. But I can't identify the bridge. There's another opening to the left, which rules out the old railroad bridges, the temporary shoo-fly railroad bridges, and the two new railroad bridges over 23. The design doesn't match the new railroad bridge over 46 at all.

The rest of this is complete guesswork:
This was US 46 westbound at Riverview Drive (art deco design from original 1948 bridge; railing was replaced in 2003 when Riverview was widened; the old photo definitely looks like the median support lacked the holes it has now though - was it foreshortened that much?). The angled white line at right is from the entrance ramp. As for how 23 north was to the left, I'm guessing that the two bridges carrying US 46 west over 23 and the ramp to US 46 east had been built, but 23 north over I-80 was not yet complete. So traffic from US 46 west to 23 north used a contraflow lane along the eastbound carriageway and the ramp from 23 south to US 46 east.

And shit, I just noticed that the directional plates are a bit janky, as if they placed temporary ones over the eventual permanent ones.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

Alps

Quote from: NE2 on August 12, 2022, 07:43:56 PM
Quote from: Alps on August 09, 2022, 11:19:23 PM
Quote from: storm2k on August 09, 2022, 02:37:51 AM
What a great trove of old pictures. A lot of black on white enamel panels of yore, for sure, but lots of gems nonetheless.


This one on 46 at the spaghetti bowl (back when it was more of an elongated ovalish circle) is great.
This one never made any sense. Look at historic aerials and tell me where there is any setup that would have north 23 left, south 23 right, and west 46 straight.
It's claimed to be from 1966, at which time the aerial shows it was being rebuilt as an interchange. But I can't identify the bridge. There's another opening to the left, which rules out the old railroad bridges, the temporary shoo-fly railroad bridges, and the two new railroad bridges over 23. The design doesn't match the new railroad bridge over 46 at all.

The rest of this is complete guesswork:
This was US 46 westbound at Riverview Drive (art deco design from original 1948 bridge; railing was replaced in 2003 when Riverview was widened; the old photo definitely looks like the median support lacked the holes it has now though - was it foreshortened that much?). The angled white line at right is from the entrance ramp. As for how 23 north was to the left, I'm guessing that the two bridges carrying US 46 west over 23 and the ramp to US 46 east had been built, but 23 north over I-80 was not yet complete. So traffic from US 46 west to 23 north used a contraflow lane along the eastbound carriageway and the ramp from 23 south to US 46 east.

And shit, I just noticed that the directional plates are a bit janky, as if they placed temporary ones over the eventual permanent ones.
we have now learned that the original photo is a lie to promote overhead signage

Roadgeek Adam

Photo is a 1966 version of a photoshop with arrows overlaid onto the Riverview Drive overpass. (Passaic Herald-News, September 15, 1966)
Adam Seth Moss
M.A. History, Western Illinois University 2015-17
B.A. History, Montclair State University 2013-15
A.A. History & Education - Middlesex (County) College 2009-13

roadman65

https://www.historicaerials.com/viewer

I also see another traffic circle was on NJ 23 where Newark- Pompton Turnpike interchanges.


Will someone tell me how to get the direct link to Wayne, NJ in 1970 to the location of NJ 23 and Newark- Pompton Turnpike.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

NE2

Quote from: roadman65 on August 12, 2022, 10:44:30 PM
https://www.historicaerials.com/viewer

I also see another traffic circle was on NJ 23 where Newark- Pompton Turnpike interchanges.


Will someone tell me how to get the direct link to Wayne, NJ in 1970 to the location of NJ 23 and Newark- Pompton Turnpike.

Only way I know is to click the tweet link and get it from there.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

storm2k

Quote from: Roadgeek Adam on August 12, 2022, 10:31:45 PM
Photo is a 1966 version of a photoshop with arrows overlaid onto the Riverview Drive overpass. (Passaic Herald-News, September 15, 1966)

Well boo. I liked the idea of that picture. Probably makes more sense tat it isn't tho.

roadman65

South Amboy used to have one NB on the overpass prior to the former Victory Circle with lane control arrows. Two pull through US 9 shields and one NJ 35 shield for the exit ramp all with down arrows to the lanes each was for.

This overpass at Andejewsi Drive.
https://goo.gl/maps/4dnpHzbC7BLj2H728
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

chrisg69911

Quote from: D-Dey65 on August 10, 2022, 01:22:35 AM
Signals like this, are one of the reasons I miss non-electronic toll plazas:
https://gardenstatesignals.net/old-signs-and-sundries/#jp-carousel-10033
Speaking of which, how is traffic in Fort Lee now that the Port Authority is getting rid of the toll plazas for the George Washington Bridge?
https://www.panynj.gov/port-authority/en/press-room/press-release-archives/2022-press-releases/new-cashless-tolling-activation-at-george-washington-bridge-set-.html

Watching the live cam on YouTube, absolutely nothing. It still gets back up tremendously,

vdeane

So apparently a tweet counts as sufficient notification that a major interstate link is closed.  A tweet.  Seriously?  Are drivers supposed to use Twitter while behind the wheel?  If one wasn't using Twitter, there was NO warning of this prior to encountering the cones blocking off the road at NJ 208.  There was a VMS just a mile away, but it was displaying a message about US 202 being closed (which turned out not to be the case, thankfully).  I was driving here on my way back from the Philadelphia meet, had to find somewhere off an interchange on NJ 208 to pull over and pull out Google Maps, couldn't find a good way out of NJ that didn't involve I-287 or US 202 without backtracking practically to I-80, tried to ask Google Maps for directions only to get told to get back on I-287 (epic fail... guess nobody even thought to tell them about the closure!), eventually found a bypass around the US 202 closure marked on Google Maps (though it turned out not to be closed), turned around to head to US 202, saw the backup on the ramp, got off at Skyline drive thinking I could go around, repeated the maneuver of finding somewhere to pull over and check Google Maps again, turn around again after seeing that there's no link between Skyline Drive and US 202 north of I-287, and eventually make it up US 202 and NJ 17 to get on my way and finally leave NJ 20 minutes later than I thought I would.  All of this drama could have been avoided if NJ had simply reprogrammed the VMS before US 202 to say something along the lines of "I-287 closed at 208/follow 202" instead of leaving it with a message about a closure that didn't exist and leaving everyone to fend for themselves.  Heck, maybe reprogram some of the ones displaying travel times further south, so traffic could divert before US 202.  I know that had I known, I would have just taken the Garden State Parkway (which was the original plan, but then I was making such good time that I decided to take I-287 one more time in case NJDOT gets rid of the fun concrete pavement between Boonton and US 202 like they are with the concrete that was between NJ 208 and the NY line, which is now your basic boring instead of the fun ride it used to be).  So FU NJ, I give you a F- in communications related to incident management!

https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/bergen/mahwah/2022/08/22/route-287-north-accident-today-shut-down-mahwah-nj/65414028007/
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

SignBridge

I've seen NYS DOT make similar mistakes on Long Island.



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