A public meeting was held last week with two options. One perfectly fine and one pretty stupid but slightly cheaper.
Widen to 6 lanes, new bridges, ramps and in the non-stupid version fix the huge curve on the westbound lanes. Construction to start in 2024
https://oklahoma.gov/content/dam/ok/en/odot/meetings/a2023/220103/249122%203549304%20%20I44%20SH66%20Prez%202022%2012%2005%20English%20Revised.pdf
By the way, option 1 is their preferred alternative for the I-44/OK 66 interchange, and it's horribly outdated, especially since I-44 was rerouted in the 2000s...
This will be a huge improvement. The left exit from eastbound I-44 to eastbound OK 66 is ridiculously dangerous, and the huge curves that westbound I-44 makes are unnecessary. This often gets backed up, and along with I-44 soon being 6 lanes all the way between the turnpikes will make driving through Tulsa a breeze.
This is a product of when I-44 was routed that way to the abandoned section of the Will Rogers Turnpike. You should have seen it when OK 66 branched off I-44 on the left and overpassed WB I-44. There were some curves there as well as that WB US 412 to EB I-44/OK 66 merge.
If Option 1 is passed, this will be a huge improvement for the traffic flow on I-44/US 412 as well as for those exiting to OK 66. The only drawback is the ramp from OK 66 WB to I-44 WB--it seems a bit sharp as it has to be routed around some wetlands and merge into a C-D lane.
Option 2 should not be used. It keeps the interchange in the same footprint it is now, just moving ramps and I-44 WB a few yards for $5 million less than straightening I-44 WB and building a flyover right side exit for OK 66 EB. When there is one disadvantage in one option verses four disadvantages in the other and it is, relatively speaking as far as road construction, a difference of "only" $5 million, then Oklahoma should "go big or go home".
IMHO, if they can't go with Option #1 they shouldn't bother doing anything at all. The Option #2 design is hardly any better than the existing road.
Suggestion: Change the title to reflect this is referring to the Catoosa interchange not the Sapulpa interchange?
Agreed. When the thread was new I thought it referred to the interchange on the SW side of Tulsa rather than the one out East by the Hard Rock Casino-Hotel.
Speaking of the one at Sapulpa, I'm looking forward to the reconfiguration project of that interchange getting finished. I've always hated that exit. At least twice I've taken a wrong turn there, intending to stay on I-44, but ending up on OK-66 instead. The latest Google Earth imagery (9/16/22) shows there is still quite a bit of work left to do.
Quote from: rte66man on January 11, 2023, 10:25:07 AM
Suggestion: Change the title to reflect this is referring to the Catoosa interchange not the Sapulpa interchange?
"Sapulpa", for some reasons it reminds me of "Spatula City" skit ad from the movie "UHF" who was filmed at Tulsa. ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XbCWmY0eqY
Quote from: Stephane Dumas on January 12, 2023, 06:50:41 PM
Quote from: rte66man on January 11, 2023, 10:25:07 AM
Suggestion: Change the title to reflect this is referring to the Catoosa interchange not the Sapulpa interchange?
"Sapulpa", for some reasons it reminds me of "Spatula City" skit ad from the movie "UHF" who was filmed at Tulsa. ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XbCWmY0eqY
"You so stupid!"
Best Quote from the movie
Quote from: Bobby5280 on January 11, 2023, 11:47:23 AM
Agreed. When the thread was new I thought it referred to the interchange on the SW side of Tulsa rather than the one out East by the Hard Rock Casino-Hotel.
Speaking of the one at Sapulpa, I'm looking forward to the reconfiguration project of that interchange getting finished. I've always hated that exit. At least twice I've taken a wrong turn there, intending to stay on I-44, but ending up on OK-66 instead. The latest Google Earth imagery (9/16/22) shows there is still quite a bit of work left to do.
I've made that wrong turn as well, leading to a bit of an adventure trying to get back on. Luckily, I didn't have to backtrack, although I was about to. Now that I think about it, it was ten years ago this week.
Anyway, I don't know if they really needed to reconstruct the interchange just for that reason (although that might not be the only reason why), but to fix the dancing-arrow sign, which misleads people to the left:
(https://i.imgur.com/XIelKnP.png)
In any case, I suppose it's too late now.
That old configuration of the OK-66/I-44 Sapulpa Split was terrible.
It's one thing to have a left exit that's just a single lane. But in this case it was a 2-lane left exit. And not only that, the visual appearance of that 2-lane exit made it even more confusing. It looked like the turnpike was going off to the left in that direction. The right exit to 57th West Avenue added yet another layer of confusion, kind of making the turnpike lanes look even more like an exit.
Of course, with ODOT being ODOT, the overhead signs really sucked. Small (cheap) panels were all crowded onto one overhead gantry. The 57th W. Avenue exit sign should have been on an entirely separate sign structure absolutely away from the OK-66/I-44 split signage. And then the OK-66/I-44 split panel should have been a little taller and a lot wider. That way the damned lane arrows would point in the right directions. And ODOT probably should have built another overhead gantry sign directly above the actual split.
The reconfigured I-44/OK-66 Sapulpa Split will have OK-66 exiting off to the right and onto a new overpass going over I-44 off to the left. That will get rid of the optical illusion. The exit ramp to 57th West Avenue is just getting eliminated completely. That's 100% fine by me. Anyone going that direction should be exiting at S 49th W Ave anyway.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on January 13, 2023, 11:23:55 AM
That old configuration of the OK-66/I-44 Sapulpa Split was terrible.
It's one thing to have a left exit that's just a single lane. But in this case it was a 2-lane left exit. And not only that, the visual appearance of that 2-lane exit made it even more confusing. It looked like the turnpike was going off to the left in that direction. The right exit to 57th West Avenue added yet another layer of confusion, kind of making the turnpike lanes look even more like an exit.
Of course, with ODOT being ODOT, the overhead signs really sucked. Small (cheap) panels were all crowded onto one overhead gantry. The 57th W. Avenue exit sign should have been on an entirely separate sign structure absolutely away from the OK-66/I-44 split signage. And then the OK-66/I-44 split panel should have been a little taller and a lot wider. That way the damned lane arrows would point in the right directions. And ODOT probably should have built another overhead gantry sign directly above the actual split.
The reconfigured I-44/OK-66 Sapulpa Split will have OK-66 exiting off to the right and onto a new overpass going over I-44 off to the left. That will get rid of the optical illusion. The exit ramp to 57th West Avenue is just getting eliminated completely. That's 100% fine by me. Anyone going that direction should be exiting at S 49th W Ave anyway.
I agree with everything you say about the interchange, but still I really think that if they had just used an APL, with the associated lane markings, the interchange wouldn't have been
that big of a problem.
And that's what makes me wonder why they're redoing the whole thing if it was the confusion here or something else.
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on January 13, 2023, 06:02:00 PM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on January 13, 2023, 11:23:55 AM
That old configuration of the OK-66/I-44 Sapulpa Split was terrible.
It's one thing to have a left exit that's just a single lane. But in this case it was a 2-lane left exit. And not only that, the visual appearance of that 2-lane exit made it even more confusing. It looked like the turnpike was going off to the left in that direction. The right exit to 57th West Avenue added yet another layer of confusion, kind of making the turnpike lanes look even more like an exit.
Of course, with ODOT being ODOT, the overhead signs really sucked. Small (cheap) panels were all crowded onto one overhead gantry. The 57th W. Avenue exit sign should have been on an entirely separate sign structure absolutely away from the OK-66/I-44 split signage. And then the OK-66/I-44 split panel should have been a little taller and a lot wider. That way the damned lane arrows would point in the right directions. And ODOT probably should have built another overhead gantry sign directly above the actual split.
The reconfigured I-44/OK-66 Sapulpa Split will have OK-66 exiting off to the right and onto a new overpass going over I-44 off to the left. That will get rid of the optical illusion. The exit ramp to 57th West Avenue is just getting eliminated completely. That's 100% fine by me. Anyone going that direction should be exiting at S 49th W Ave anyway.
I agree with everything you say about the interchange, but still I really think that if they had just used an APL, with the associated lane markings, the interchange wouldn't have been that big of a problem.
It is that big of a problem. It's quite dangerous. EB OK 66 splits off rather sharply from EB I-44. Traffic headed toward Catoosa slows down in the left lane, which causes backups. The curves in WB I-44 are dangerous as well. I can personally attest to that. I was driving EB on I-44/US 412, and WB traffic was backed up to about the beginning of the curve. Just past the end of the curve, traffic was moving slowly (but were about to have to stop) as this was the beginning of the backup. Out of the corner of my eye. I saw a crotch rocket style crotch rocket flying through the air. A split second later, I saw a man with a helmet on flying through the air in the same position he would have been in if he were still on the bike. I don't know if that guy survived or not.
"Classic" ODOT freeway design is nothing short of terrifying. I'm so glad they got the worst of it replaced in the OKC area before I started driving. It's shameful that Tulsa and Lawton still have to contend with it.
Quote from: bugoIt is that big of a problem. It's quite dangerous. EB OK 66 splits off rather sharply from EB I-44.
CtrlAltDel and I were actually talking about the I-44/OK-66 split on the SW side of Tulsa near Sapulpa.
I agree about the OK-66/I-44 in Catoosa on the NE side of the Tulsa area. It sucks too. EB I-44 drops to only 2 lanes going past the Hard Rock Hotel exit. That creates a bottleneck for thru I-44 traffic and slower (left lane) traffic exiting to EB OK-66. The WB I-44 lanes thru that interchange are arguably worse. I-44 goes thru a sharp 45mph rated S-curve. Anyone on WB I-44 wanting to take Exit 240 for the Hard Rock Hotel and other businesses there can't really see the exit until after cresting a hill over EB OK-66 lanes. In a space of about 700 feet you have to weave across WB OK-66 traffic merging into WB I-44 to hit that exit ramp. In heavier traffic it's easy to miss the ramp and wind up driving a couple miles to the next exit at 165th E Ave in order to turn around and back track.
Quote from: Scott5114"Classic" ODOT freeway design is nothing short of terrifying. I'm so glad they got the worst of it replaced in the OKC area before I started driving. It's shameful that Tulsa and Lawton still have to contend with it.
That's our state trying to do stuff on the cheap. On the bright side Tulsa has seen a pretty decent amount of progress with its highways over the past 20 years. Much of I-44 has been completely re-built thru Tulsa. They just need to finish up those last 2 or 3 miles on the West side between I-244 and the Arkansas River.
Lawton remains a mess.
ODOT did a patch job of sorts with the I-44/Cache Rd/2nd St interchange. I've grown to not like the WB I-44 left exit to Cache Road. I think something happened to my inner ear functions the first time I got COVID-19. I feel it in the pit of my stomach when driving up that long incline and then taking that fairly sharp right curve on the bridge going over the defunct rail line. You have to be in the left lane. If you're pushing 5 over the 55mph speed limit (like so many people do) you're going to feel the G-force in that left lane. There are are lots of tire marks and vehicle scrapes on that left concrete guard rail.
ODOT is screwed for trying to straighten out that curve on I-44 in that interchange. There is a decent amount of tribe housing below. Some of those homes would have to be bought and cleared for a proper interchange overhaul.
The revamped I-44 exit for Rogers Lane has some design flaws. It's common for vehicles on EB I-44 going to WB Rogers Lane to take the first exit ramp, which gets them stuck Eastbound on Rogers Lane. You gotta go past/under Rogers Lane and take that new cloverleaf ramp. The only good thing I can say about the interchange is they eliminated one traffic light.
I'm waiting for Rogers Lane to turn into a dangerous mess once they extend Goodyear Blvd up to a new exit with US-62. That will put a lot of heavy trucks onto Rogers Lane. Lawton is trying to do an overhaul of Lee Blvd from the Goodyear plant to I-44. But they're doing that in phases. Many trucks visiting the big industrial plants West of Lawton try to take 82nd Street down to OK-36. But that road is absolutely beat to shit. Lawton really needs a proper freeway upgrade done to Rogers Lane AND it needs a proper South bypass from the West side industrial park to I-44. They could start it out as a Super 2 and upgrade it in phases as needed (kind of like the Duncan Bypass).
I'm always wary of situations where an offramp occurs right after an onramp. They really don't anticipate needing any additional improvements to address westbound weave issues?
Option #1 would have the least amount of weaving issues for I-44 thru traffic that is.
Westbound I-44 would have a barrier separated collector-distributor lane for the off-ramp to OK-66 as well as the on-ramp from OK-66 to WB I-44. Toward the end of the C/D lane there will be an off-ramp for 193rd East Ave. There could be weaving issues there between cars taking that off ramp and other vehicles from OK-66 wanting to merge into I-44. At least the WB I-44 thru lanes will be separated from any of that potential nonsense.
Eastbound I-44 would have a 2-lane right exit ramp and new overpass to OK-66. The existing left exit would be eliminated. The long on-ramp from 193rd East Ave to EB I-44 looks like it might be partially re-built perhaps to make a little more room for the EB I-44 to OK-66 off ramp.
They should also get rid of the "orphaned" Interstate 44 pavement from when 44 was rerouted as part of the construction of the Creek Turnpike.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 07, 2023, 03:58:51 PM
They should also get rid of the "orphaned" Interstate 44 pavement from when 44 was rerouted as part of the construction of the Creek Turnpike.
I hear that OKDOT uses that sometimes for testing and demonstrations.
Quote from: Evan_Th on February 07, 2023, 04:50:25 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 07, 2023, 03:58:51 PM
They should also get rid of the "orphaned" Interstate 44 pavement from when 44 was rerouted as part of the construction of the Creek Turnpike.
I hear that OKDOT uses that sometimes for testing and demonstrations.
Roadgeeks also use it for road meets. I don't know if they're still there, but the BGSes were still up long after it closed.
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 07, 2023, 06:27:19 PM
Quote from: Evan_Th on February 07, 2023, 04:50:25 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 07, 2023, 03:58:51 PM
They should also get rid of the "orphaned" Interstate 44 pavement from when 44 was rerouted as part of the construction of the Creek Turnpike.
I hear that OKDOT uses that sometimes for testing and demonstrations.
Roadgeeks also use it for road meets. I don't know if they're still there, but the BGSes were still up long after it closed.
I wonder if they could also use it for filming some movie scenes as well?
Quote from: Stephane Dumas on February 10, 2023, 01:35:58 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 07, 2023, 06:27:19 PM
Quote from: Evan_Th on February 07, 2023, 04:50:25 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 07, 2023, 03:58:51 PM
They should also get rid of the "orphaned" Interstate 44 pavement from when 44 was rerouted as part of the construction of the Creek Turnpike.
I hear that OKDOT uses that sometimes for testing and demonstrations.
Roadgeeks also use it for road meets. I don't know if they're still there, but the BGSes were still up long after it closed.
I wonder if they could also use it for filming some movie scenes as well?
It was used at least once in a campaign ad for a U.S. Senator claiming he would work to get funding to fix Oklahoma's crumbling roads if he were re-elected. (Of course the ad didn't say the road he was walking down while saying that was crumbling because it was abandoned years before.)
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 07, 2023, 03:58:51 PM
They should also get rid of the "orphaned" Interstate 44 pavement from when 44 was rerouted as part of the construction of the Creek Turnpike.
Fuck that. Why do you think they should tear up the pavement? It isn't hurting anybody. It is an amazing relic, and I don't understand why somebody who claims to like roads would want this road removed. It would cost a lot of money and would provide no benefits to anybody. Buzzkill.
Quote from: bugo on February 22, 2023, 12:01:14 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 07, 2023, 03:58:51 PM
They should also get rid of the "orphaned" Interstate 44 pavement from when 44 was rerouted as part of the construction of the Creek Turnpike.
Fuck that. Why do you think they should tear up the pavement? It isn't hurting anybody. It is an amazing relic, and I don't understand why somebody who claims to like roads would want this road removed. It would cost a lot of money and would provide no benefits to anybody. Buzzkill.
I had heard OHP was using it as part of their training but that may no longer be the case.
Quote from: bugo on February 22, 2023, 12:01:14 PM
Fuck that. Why do you think they should tear up the pavement? It isn't hurting anybody. It is an amazing relic, and I don't understand why somebody who claims to like roads would want this road removed. It would cost a lot of money and would provide no benefits to anybody. Buzzkill.
I was happy when old PA61 was finally dirted over. I might have felt differently if it hadn't been completely graffitied all to shite, but that road had long since jumped the shark.
Quote from: yakra on October 13, 2023, 10:01:44 AM
Quote from: bugo on February 22, 2023, 12:01:14 PM
Fuck that. Why do you think they should tear up the pavement? It isn't hurting anybody. It is an amazing relic, and I don't understand why somebody who claims to like roads would want this road removed. It would cost a lot of money and would provide no benefits to anybody. Buzzkill.
I was happy when old PA61 was finally dirted over. I might have felt differently if it hadn't been completely graffitied all to shite, but that road had long since jumped the shark.
I can't see how a road enthusiast wanting things to be more boring than they already are. It would be like a bridge enthusiast cheering on the demolition of a historic truss. As far as the Catoosa highway, it's not in bad shape and makes a good hiking trail. It's part of the past that has been (temporarily, at least) preserved in time. I hope they never remove it.