I-80/I-99 West Interchange

[Rothman]

USGS puts Pittsburgh in the Piedmont of the Appalachian Highlands.

Pittsburgh certainly doesn't feel like the Midwest to me.  It is definitely more Mid-Atlantic than, say, Columbus or Indianapolis (which are more dull, generic, and boring than Pittsburgh).  Also: Pittsburgh's got mountains.

I find the Ohio River argument less than convincing as well. 

[webny99]

Western PA is very much a part of, if not the heart of, Appalachia.

Pittsburgh is not geographically in the Midwest, full stop.
Culturally, it is in the Rust Belt and has many similarities to the Midwest, but that has to do with culture, not location.

[Rothman]

If western PA is the heart of Appalachia, then you're a monkey's uncle.

[webny99]

If western PA is the heart of Appalachia, then you're a monkey's uncle.

Well, how would you define the heart of Appalachia?

It certainly includes West Virginia, which is not far from Western PA.

[Rothman]

Southern WV, eastern KY, eastern TN, then along the border with NC (Smokies and Mount Mitchell).

Not saying Pennsyltucky is not in the Appalachians, but the heart?  Nah.

[hbelkins]

I find the Ohio River argument less than convincing as well.

Agreed. That would mean that Ashland and Ironton are in different regions, as would be Covington/Newport and Cincinnati, New Albany/Clarksville/Jeffersonville and Louisville, and Evansville and Henderson/Owensboro.

[sparker]

I suppose using the Ohio River as a delineation point would depend upon whether Kentucky is considered generally part of the "classic" South or whether it (and possibly TN as well) functions as an individual region (a western Piedmont equivalent).  I don't see much resolution regarding just where Pittsburgh (or Louisville or Cincinnati or even Wheeling) should be arbitrarily placed.  Perhaps we should use our own road-centric logic and consider "Appalachia" as any place where there are ARC routes -- from lower NY, arrayed on both sides of the Ohio River, and just about everything down to and including MS!  Seems as good as any criteria out there! 

[qguy]

OK, I know this thread is getting a little off-topic, but...

I know the Appalachian Mountain region has more than one ridge.    I know this because 1) I can go to Google Maps and turn on satellite view, and 2) they teach this in elementary and middle schools all across Pennsylvania. I'm also well aware that the Blue Ridge is part of the Appalachian Mountains. In Pennsylvania, they extend from the Blue Ridge (which contains PA Turnpike tunnels on both the main trunk and northeast extension) to the Allegheny Front. In fact, as I write this now, I'm actually looking out a window and can see the Blue Ridge with my own eyes. (Doing two things at the same time!)

I don't know about calling the area on the west side of the Appalachian Mountains a piedmont. If someone found a USGS reference to that, then OK. I guess technically it's a piedmont (it's the "foot of a mountain," right?) but it's not the Piedmont. The Piedmont (capital P) is the region at the eastern edge of the Appalachian Mountain region between it and the Coastal Plain region.

For a good graphical presentation of the five major geographical regions in Pennsylvania, go here. For those not inclined to follow the link, they are (generally from east to west):
1. Coastal Plain.
2. Piedmont.
3. Appalachian Mountains (often called Ridge and Valley Region).
4. Allegheny Plateau.
5. Erie Plain.

Did I nod off? Anyway, for the more visually inclined among us, there's a nice map graphic here.

Altoona is definitely inside the Appalachian Mountain region. In fact, it's east of the highest point on the range, the eastern continental divide. (In that area it's where the Norfolk Southern rail line passes through the Gallitzin tunnels.)

Pittsburgh is not in the Appalachian Mountain region, it's in the Allegheny Plateau region. Do you consider the Allegheny Plateau region to by geographically northeast or midwest? Fine by me, honestly. If you consider the Allegheny Plateau to be geographically part of the northeast (which it may be), than the northeast probably extends to the middle of Ohio (geographically speaking). There's a graphic that shows that here (second graphic from the top). I guess all the light grey area in western Pennsylvania and eastern Ohio could be considered geographically part of the northeast. That last graphic identifies the area Pittsburgh is in to be part of the overall Appalachian Highland area. Do consider that to be the "greater Appalachian Mountain" region? Again, fine by me; I won't argue with you.

At any rate, in my earlier post I said that demographers consider Pittsburgh to be demographically a midwest city, whatever it is geographically.

Apologies for the lengthy post. To get back on-topic, what is certain is that the interchange is firmly in the northeast (geographically, telegraphically, phonographically, etc., etc.).

[Beltway]

Apologies for the lengthy post. To get back on-topic, what is certain is that the interchange is firmly in the northeast (geographically, telegraphically, phonographically, etc., etc.).

Getting back to my point, where this northeast/Midwest discussion started, was when a poster defended the $185 million cost estimate, based on the interchange being in the 'northeast'.  As if it was expensive because of what it costs to build in northeastern metros such as Philadelphia, NYC, Baltimore, D.C., etc.

This is in a rural area about 200 miles from those metro areas, far enough to put it in a whole different cost regime.

[qguy]

Apologies for the lengthy post. To get back on-topic, what is certain is that the interchange is firmly in the northeast (geographically, telegraphically, phonographically, etc., etc.).

Getting back to my point, where this northeast/Midwest discussion started, was when a poster defended the $185 million cost estimate, based on the interchange being in the 'northeast'.  As if it was expensive because of what it costs to build in northeastern metros such as Philadelphia, NYC, Baltimore, D.C., etc.

This is in a rural area about 200 miles from those metro areas, far enough to put it in a whole different cost regime.

Maybe they had in mind its proximity to State College, the home of Penn State University, about 15 miles away. Y'know, the rate of tuition inflation these days makes everything nearby more expensive, even the rocks.

[Alps]

Apologies for the lengthy post. To get back on-topic, what is certain is that the interchange is firmly in the northeast (geographically, telegraphically, phonographically, etc., etc.).

Getting back to my point, where this northeast/Midwest discussion started, was when a poster defended the $185 million cost estimate, based on the interchange being in the 'northeast'.  As if it was expensive because of what it costs to build in northeastern metros such as Philadelphia, NYC, Baltimore, D.C., etc.

This is in a rural area about 200 miles from those metro areas, far enough to put it in a whole different cost regime.

Pennsylvania is a northeastern state. Costs tend to aggregate by state due to taxes and state laws. Your move, a poster.

[Beltway]

Apologies for the lengthy post. To get back on-topic, what is certain is that the interchange is firmly in the northeast (geographically, telegraphically, phonographically, etc., etc.).

Getting back to my point, where this northeast/Midwest discussion started, was when a poster defended the $185 million cost estimate, based on the interchange being in the 'northeast'.  As if it was expensive because of what it costs to build in northeastern metros such as Philadelphia, NYC, Baltimore, D.C., etc.
This is in a rural area about 200 miles from those metro areas, far enough to put it in a whole different cost regime.

Pennsylvania is a northeastern state. Costs tend to aggregate by state due to taxes and state laws. Your move, a poster.

Highway construction and maintenance costs vary considerably by locality, VDOT tracks costs by county and city categories.  My 3 years with PennDOT (1970s) is obviously dated but it was the same situation there.  In the Philadelphia area we observed with interest how much less projects cost in rural parts of the state.

[Beltway]

Getting back to my point, where this northeast/Midwest discussion started, was when a poster defended the $185 million cost estimate, based on the interchange being in the 'northeast'.  As if it was expensive because of what it costs to build in northeastern metros such as Philadelphia, NYC, Baltimore, D.C., etc.
This is in a rural area about 200 miles from those metro areas, far enough to put it in a whole different cost regime.

Maybe they had in mind its proximity to State College, the home of Penn State University, about 15 miles away. Y'know, the rate of tuition inflation these days makes everything nearby more expensive, even the rocks.

Yeah, the gold can seep into the ground and waters, and that can make everything more expensive!   

[Gnutella]

Pittsburgh is in the midwest.

Pennsylvania is a northeastern state.

[silverback1065]

pittsburgh is not in the midwest, never has been, never will be, nuff said.

[Beltway]

Completion of all work by December 2025.
. . . .

PennDOT Details New Local Access Tied to I-80/I-99 Interchange Project
March 01, 2019



After being discussed for what seems like ages, the proposed high-speed interchange at Interstates 80 and 99 is kicking into gear with a $34 million federal grant received by PennDOT. On Tuesday, the agency gave a presentation on the project at the Patton Township building.

The interchange will improve traffic patterns as drivers use I-99 and I-80 to come into the region, but will change local traffic as state Route 26 will not have access to I-80 when the project is complete. Access to SR 26 (Jacksonville Road) from I-80 will come from a new exit that will be built two miles to the east of the current exit, said PennDOT Assistant District Executive of Design Thomas Zurat.

The $34 million will go toward building this new local access interchange to SR 26. PennDOT plans to open bids for the project on April 23, 2020, and anticipates finishing it in December 2021.

This part of the project includes building a connector road from SR 26 to the on- and off-ramps of I-80.

After the new local access interchange is complete, the next steps of the project will be to go out to bid in March of 2022. The next steps include making improvements to Jacksonville Road between the new I-80 exit as it heads south back toward I-80, bridge improvements to the eastbound and westbound structures over Hubler Ridge Road and Sand Ridge Road, and construction of the high-speed interchange for I-80 and I-99.

PennDOT expects the Jacksonville Road improvement to be complete by July 2023 and the bridge improvement to be complete by December 2023.

The Jacksonville Road improvements will be made to handle the increased traffic that will come from the new local access point.

"We are going to do a little bit of widening, put in wider shoulders and pave the roadway. And it you ever ride down the road, there is a lot of up and down and we are going to smooth out those over verticals and such,"  said Zurat.

The high-speed interchange work looks to be completed by December 2025.

"There will be no connection to 26 when we are done, so there will be no local access,"  Zurat said. "This will be a high-speed connection between the two interstates. So what happens because of that, to the east of this interchange we are building a new local interchange for people to get on and off of 26. This will get bid and built first – the local interchange. This is about two or three miles toward Howard down 26, so you will be able to get on and off 80 and hook over toward 26 or what will be the new 1018 and take you back toward the quarry, which will come in here on Jacksonville Road and tie you underneath the interstate and keep going down Jacksonville toward Bellefonte."

This leaves options for people looking to get to Jacksonville Road from heading north on I-99 to get off at the 550 interchange or get on I-80 east for two miles and get off at the new interchange.

An aspect of the project designed to improve safety looks to get started by the end of this year, with improvements made to the current SR 26/I-80 westbound ramp that has long been an issue with backups as motorists look to get off I-80 to head to Penn State, especially during a football weekend.

This past year, a traffic light with a sensor was installed to help move traffic along. PennDOT plans to push back the embankment on the east side of 26 as people approach the traffic light to make it more visible and extend the exit ramp 400 feet coming off of I-80 westbound onto 26 to "accommodate a little more stacking,"  said Zurat. PennDOT is also going to add more sensors to allow the ramp to clear more smoothly during high-traffic times.

The high-speed interchange will also help further the plan to extend I-99 north toward the New York border.

"It opens up the extension of I-99, but the feds are still looking,"  said Zurat. "Probably the biggest concern for 99 right now is the section going up to Williamsport. Once you get up into Lock Haven and up into Jersey Shore, it narrows down with a lot of houses and businesses for just a short section and then it opens back up to four lanes. That is kind of the restriction right now. It wouldn't take us much to connect 80 to the Lock Haven bypass; that lower part is farm fields and you could do that. It's the piece north of that that would be a little more difficult."

Zurat added that I-99 currently stops at Musser Lane, a half-mile before I-80, but the new interchange will allow that last half mile to be considered I-99.

The overall project will cost about $200 million, he said.

Penn State is a test bed for automated vehicles, Zurat said, and part of the grant is to lay down a fiber network to allow the interchange to be part of the testing.

"So, that will be neat to see what that brings to the area,"  said Zurat. "But the big thing is to move the freight and the people and having a more reliable system will make it much better for the users."  

----------------
http://www.statecollege.com/news/local-news/penndot-details-new-local-access-tied-to-i80i99-interchange-project,1479437/?fbclid=IwAR0QFXQcub0QYSls-gjB4RYJgFpYojq2ptCNKxZ86WaXnyboPfojclKBT7Q

[The Ghostbuster]

Well, at least they finally have a construction date for this project! The original segment of Interstate 99 will finally connect with the rest of the Interstate system. Now if they can just find a way to make Interstate 99 continuous between Interstate 80 and Interstate 180/US 15.

[sparker]

Well, at least they finally have a construction date for this project! The original segment of Interstate 99 will finally connect with the rest of the Interstate system. Now if they can just find a way to make Interstate 99 continuous between Interstate 80 and Interstate 180/US 15.

Before that is done, US 15 between Williamsport and the NY state line needs to have the final "tweaking" done to bring it up to full Interstate standards; the I-80-to-Williamsport section will need extensive modification or bypassing to pass muster; that would probably be a more long-term situation.  If the northerly stretch could be signed as I-99, then the central US 220 stretch could be posted with "TO I-99" signage -- including the BGS's at I-180 and I-80 -- until it too were fully completed. 

[briantroutman]

"It wouldn't take us much to connect 80 to the Lock Haven bypass; that lower part is farm fields and you could do that. It's the piece north of that that would be a little more difficult."

Granted, there are fewer challenges to solve in bridging the three-mile gap between I-80 and Mill Hall than in the longer and more populated segment between Jersey Shore and Williamsport, but Mr. Zurat is really soft-peddling the amount of work and funds needed to complete the I-80/US 220 connection at Exit 178. Essentially, that project will involve almost everything involved with the upcoming $200 million project near Bellefonte–plus–the land clearing, grading, and construction work necessary to build three miles of a new two-lane carriageway. That will entail the modification of the newly built Auction/Fairground Rd. interchange, a slight modification of the PA 477 interchange, and the construction of two new overpass structures. With the Exit 161 project having been delayed for "what seems like ages"  according to the article, I don't have any reason to think that a continuous freeway link to Mill Hall will take any less time.

And on the subject of the Jersey Shore to Williamsport freeway gap, PennDOT is investing $37.6 million into a three-year project intended to increase safety along the existing free-access surface highway–adding median barriers in more places, eliminating more left turns, and constructing more jug handles. I don't anticipate any progress toward the long-planned freeway upgrade/bypass for another decade at least.

[Beltway]

Before that is done, US 15 between Williamsport and the NY state line needs to have the final "tweaking" done to bring it up to full Interstate standards

Like what?  Someone claimed that there is forest fire road that connects as a RIRO, but other than that I don't know what doesn't meet full Interstate standards.

[seicer]

Before that is done, US 15 between Williamsport and the NY state line needs to have the final "tweaking" done to bring it up to full Interstate standards

Like what?  Someone claimed that there is forest fire road that connects as a RIRO, but other than that I don't know what doesn't meet full Interstate standards.

It pretty much is a RIRO, and those types of connections already exist elsewhere, and I'm not sure what other deficiencies there are.

[Beltway]

Before that is done, US 15 between Williamsport and the NY state line needs to have the final "tweaking" done to bring it up to full Interstate standards

Like what?  Someone claimed that there is forest fire road that connects as a RIRO, but other than that I don't know what doesn't meet full Interstate standards.

It pretty much is a RIRO, and those types of connections already exist elsewhere, and I'm not sure what other deficiencies there are.

If it is forest fire road then presumably it would have a locked gate that is only opened in an emergency situation.  IOW does not violate freeway standards.

[Roadsguy]

Before that is done, US 15 between Williamsport and the NY state line needs to have the final "tweaking" done to bring it up to full Interstate standards

Like what?  Someone claimed that there is forest fire road that connects as a RIRO, but other than that I don't know what doesn't meet full Interstate standards.

It pretty much is a RIRO, and those types of connections already exist elsewhere, and I'm not sure what other deficiencies there are.

If it is forest fire road then presumably it would have a locked gate that is only opened in an emergency situation.  IOW does not violate freeway standards.

I've been up it a little bit and I'm pretty sure there is a gate. It does have a name, though (Four Mile Road?), and Google identifies it as township road 685 (T-685). The intersection also has a stop sign, one-way signs, and a wrong way sign.

[sparker]

Question:  has PennDOT ever formally submitted the US 15 facility north of Williamsport as I-99? -- and if so, was the RIRO mentioned above cited as a reason for denial of such an application?  If the answer to the first question is no, then it would appear that PennDOT is in no particular hurry to upgrade the designation (unlike the existing southerly section of I-99), even though NY did so with their short segment a few years ago. 

[Plutonic Panda]

Sorry I'm not familiar with Pennsylvania... I went and checked out Google maps and wow what a horrible interchange. Glad to see it upgraded though it seems like they could find a way to expedite this rather than phase it out until 2025. This isn't a very large project.

There is already a high speed interchange a little south that connects to what google maps shows as highway 64. It looks like they plan on building anew facility extending east?