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Minnesota Notes

Started by Mdcastle, April 18, 2012, 07:54:36 PM

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TheHighwayMan3561

Didn't intend to imply that they didn't exist (just that I had never seen any myself), but I'm just going to show myself out before I make myself look any dumber.
self-certified as the dumbest person on this board for 5 years running


J N Winkler

#1726
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on June 02, 2023, 05:14:53 PMDidn't intend to imply that they didn't exist (just that I had never seen any myself), but I'm just going to show myself out before I make myself look any dumber.

Don't feel bad--I found UT roads in St. Louis County only because the plans for the SP 8821-353 sign replacement furnished a cheat sheet.  MnDOT signing contracts with control sections of 88XX tend to be districtwide jobs, but this one focuses on US 53 in St. Louis and Koochiching Counties.  In many cases, perhaps most, UT roads will be signed far more conspicuously from US 53 than they are now.

Here's an example:



Google Maps not only fails to show Jacobs Road as UT 8146; it also misleadingly labels it as CR 519.  StreetView imagery (the latest of which dates from November 2015) shows a UT 8146 shield on Jacobs Road itself but no existing signing on US 53 referencing a UT route.

I don't know the current status of construction on SP 8821-353.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

froggie

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on June 02, 2023, 05:14:53 PM
Didn't intend to imply that they didn't exist (just that I had never seen any myself), but I'm just going to show myself out before I make myself look any dumber.

That they exist is one thing.  Whether they're signed (and thus visible in the field) or not is another story.

My initial reaction was that there may not be many in St. Louis County because the county seems to throw a county route shield on practically every cowpath.

Molandfreak

The only spot I've seen where MN/DOT has signed a UT road (other than US 53) is on TH 61 near Knife River where 61 intersects CSAH 25 and UT 7. It's a pretty recent installation that replaced an older sign that had the roadway marked as CR 103.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 05, 2023, 08:24:57 PM
AASHTO attributes 28.5% of highway inventory shrink to bad road fan social media posts.

TheHighwayMan3561

#1729
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 26, 2023, 02:22:08 AM
I noticed tonight that the signs on TH 100 have been replaced between TH 55 and I-694 (with exit numbers now added). But what was also installed that I don't ever remember seeing before in Minnesota were large yellow ground-mounted "RIGHT LANE EXIT ONLY AHEAD" signs throughout the auxiliary lanes on the stretch. Usually a small white "RIGHT LANE MUST EXIT" or often no signs at all denoted these sorts of things.

Apparently I was not the only one who noticed, as the Strib did a bit on this subject today. MnDOT's sometimes ambiguous job of explicity signing auxiliary lanes as "Exit Only" evidently caught up with it.

Quote from: Eric Peterson, MnDOT sign engineer
"Yes, there has been a history of late lane changes in these types of lanes," said Eric Peterson, MnDOT metro sign engineer. "They also generate frequent complaints and questions about why some lanes are not signed this way."

https://www.startribune.com/why-new-exit-only-signs-have-appeared-on-hwy-100/600280100/
self-certified as the dumbest person on this board for 5 years running

midwesternroadguy

Quick work being done on the US 52 (Rosemount and south) and I-94 reconstructions in Afton/Woodbury.  PCC (concrete) is already being laid in both projects.   Both very much in need of rebuilding, with I-94 being the roughest. 

TheHighwayMan3561

A couple winters ago we discussed the US 52/Dakota CSAH 66 interchange study, Dakota County proposing eminent domain for the interchange, and the objections of the Hmong farmers' group that owns the land. To put a bow on that, the new bonding bill prohibits eminent domain from being used to seize that particular land for an interchange, but MnDOT had already dropped any further immediate interest in an interchange at that intersection anyway due to cost concerns.

https://www.startribune.com/bonding-bill-saves-dakota-county-fields-for-minnesota-hmong-farmers/600282125/
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Mdcastle

And hard working taxpayers in the state get gouged $2 million for a box culvert just for this one farm.

Rothman

Quote from: Mdcastle on June 15, 2023, 11:50:30 AM
And hard working taxpayers in the state get gouged $2 million for a box culvert just for this one farm.
Culverts have become very expensive, so that pricetag is not surprising in the least.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Roadguy

Quote from: Mdcastle on June 15, 2023, 11:50:30 AM
And hard working taxpayers in the state get gouged $2 million for a box culvert just for this one farm.

Plus the original millions to purchase the farm in the first place. Yet this legislator doesn't realize it still leaves the intersection with US 52 and Dakota County Rd 66 very unsafe permanently. About the only choice left is to close it off from US52 as eminent domain is not an option.

No idea where this culvert would go in the first place from a design perspective due to the hill it would create while still meeting design standards for the 65 mph freeway and not obstruct sight lines for the existing access / u-turns.

Lastly, what's going to hold up construction of the culvert is the maintenance and ownership. MnDOT is not going to own and maintain it and legally a government entity in Minnesota must agree to own and maintain it as MnDOT does not have agreements with private or non-profit entities. Dakota County and Vermillion Township are certainly not going to agree to maintain it as well.

froggie

Quote from: Mdcastle on June 15, 2023, 11:50:30 AM
And hard working taxpayers in the state get gouged $2 million for a box culvert just for this one farm.

If it eliminates a median crossing and/or farm equipment crossing 52 at-grade (the former is my speculation given the location, the latter is cited in the article), then there *IS* a transportation benefit to that box culvert.

But even before this legislation, Dakota County had concluded back in February that an interchange project in the near term was too costly for the county to pursue on its own.

Given the situation with the Hmong farm, not to mention the proximity to the Vermillion River, my money is on them eventually building an interchange at CR 62 and closing access at 66.  But they won't do that until they land some outside money (or a "pop-up project" as Monte has coined them in the past).

midwesternroadguy

Quote from: Mdcastle on June 15, 2023, 11:50:30 AM
And hard working taxpayers in the state get gouged $2 million for a box culvert just for this one farm.

And HAFA farmers aren’t hard-working taxpayers? (that provide one half of the produce sold at TC farmers’ markets.)

NWI_Irish96

Question for anybody in the Duluth area: What is the current status of I-535, or more importantly, what will the status be on the 27th/28th? Google maps says it's closed in both directions. I'm planning a trip up there and would hate to not clinch I-535 while there?
Indiana: counties 100%, highways 100%
Illinois: counties 100%, highways 61%
Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
Wisconsin: counties 86%, highways 23%

TheHighwayMan3561

Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on June 20, 2023, 09:25:17 AM
Question for anybody in the Duluth area: What is the current status of I-535, or more importantly, what will the status be on the 27th/28th? Google maps says it's closed in both directions. I'm planning a trip up there and would hate to not clinch I-535 while there?

535 is completely closed between Garfield Avenue and I-35 until this fall.
self-certified as the dumbest person on this board for 5 years running

NWI_Irish96

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on June 20, 2023, 12:37:17 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on June 20, 2023, 09:25:17 AM
Question for anybody in the Duluth area: What is the current status of I-535, or more importantly, what will the status be on the 27th/28th? Google maps says it's closed in both directions. I'm planning a trip up there and would hate to not clinch I-535 while there?

535 is completely closed between Garfield Avenue and I-35 until this fall.

OK, is the bridge at least open? I could at least finish off the last stretch of Wisconsin interstate I'm missing.
Indiana: counties 100%, highways 100%
Illinois: counties 100%, highways 61%
Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
Wisconsin: counties 86%, highways 23%

TheHighwayMan3561

Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on June 20, 2023, 12:50:00 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on June 20, 2023, 12:37:17 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on June 20, 2023, 09:25:17 AM
Question for anybody in the Duluth area: What is the current status of I-535, or more importantly, what will the status be on the 27th/28th? Google maps says it's closed in both directions. I'm planning a trip up there and would hate to not clinch I-535 while there?

535 is completely closed between Garfield Avenue and I-35 until this fall.

OK, is the bridge at least open? I could at least finish off the last stretch of Wisconsin interstate I'm missing.

The bridge is open, yes.
self-certified as the dumbest person on this board for 5 years running

NWI_Irish96

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on June 20, 2023, 12:52:42 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on June 20, 2023, 12:50:00 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on June 20, 2023, 12:37:17 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on June 20, 2023, 09:25:17 AM
Question for anybody in the Duluth area: What is the current status of I-535, or more importantly, what will the status be on the 27th/28th? Google maps says it's closed in both directions. I'm planning a trip up there and would hate to not clinch I-535 while there?

535 is completely closed between Garfield Avenue and I-35 until this fall.

OK, is the bridge at least open? I could at least finish off the last stretch of Wisconsin interstate I'm missing.

The bridge is open, yes.

OK, sorry to be a pain, but I want to be sure. Google maps is telling me that I can cross the bridge in either direction, but that Garfield Ave is closed at I-535, so in effect there's no way to get on/off I-535 at the north end of the bridge.

But you're saying I can cross the bridge northbound and exit at Garfield and get into Duluth from there?
Indiana: counties 100%, highways 100%
Illinois: counties 100%, highways 61%
Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
Wisconsin: counties 86%, highways 23%

TheHighwayMan3561

Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on June 20, 2023, 12:58:22 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on June 20, 2023, 12:52:42 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on June 20, 2023, 12:50:00 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on June 20, 2023, 12:37:17 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on June 20, 2023, 09:25:17 AM
Question for anybody in the Duluth area: What is the current status of I-535, or more importantly, what will the status be on the 27th/28th? Google maps says it's closed in both directions. I'm planning a trip up there and would hate to not clinch I-535 while there?

535 is completely closed between Garfield Avenue and I-35 until this fall.

OK, is the bridge at least open? I could at least finish off the last stretch of Wisconsin interstate I'm missing.

The bridge is open, yes.

OK, sorry to be a pain, but I want to be sure. Google maps is telling me that I can cross the bridge in either direction, but that Garfield Ave is closed at I-535, so in effect there's no way to get on/off I-535 at the north end of the bridge.

But you're saying I can cross the bridge northbound and exit at Garfield and get into Duluth from there?

Not a pain at all, it's good to check and be sure. That is correct that you can cross the Blatnik from Superior to Duluth and be forced off the freeway at Garfield Ave.
self-certified as the dumbest person on this board for 5 years running

froggie

Stumbled upon the 2022 regional project solicitations to the Met Council.  Some interesting things in there.  Besides a plethora of roundabouts and road diet proposals, there are proposals to convert 2 interchanges from 5-ramp par-clo's to DDIs:  US 169/CSAH 130 and I-94/MN 101.  Another proposal all-but-confirms that the plan for MN 13 at Nicollet Ave is for a grade separation and quadrant connection with a signal on 13 and a roundabout on Nicollet.  There will also be a direct ramp from Nicollet to NB I-35W.

TheHighwayMan3561

It frustrates me that this is the best that can be done now at 94/101 between costs and how built up that area has become compared to 20 years ago when the NW metro was in the early stages of its growth spurt.
self-certified as the dumbest person on this board for 5 years running

Molandfreak

Is a flyover from southbound 101 to eastbound 94 possible?
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 05, 2023, 08:24:57 PM
AASHTO attributes 28.5% of highway inventory shrink to bad road fan social media posts.

froggie

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on June 27, 2023, 03:38:18 PM
It frustrates me that this is the best that can be done now at 94/101 between costs and how built up that area has become compared to 20 years ago when the NW metro was in the early stages of its growth spurt.

Agreed.  I was hoping that, with at least official mapping, enough ROW could have been preserved.  But I don't think the studies progressed far enough to make that a possibility.

Quote from: Molandfreak on June 27, 2023, 04:58:03 PM
Is a flyover from southbound 101 to eastbound 94 possible?

Physically?  Probably, although it'd be a single lane and a very tight squeeze on both ends.  And to clear Diamond Lake Rd, at least some aspect of it would not be up to standards whether grade, height above Diamond Lake Rd, or the short weave from the CSAH 144 on-ramp.

Financially?  I doubt in the next 20-30 years.  Too many problems elsewhere.

The Ghostbuster

I have a feeling that the Interstate 94/MN 101 interchange will remain in its existing configuration permanently. Maybe if there wasn't so much development, a full freeway-to-freeway interchange could have been constructed.

TheHighwayMan3561

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on June 28, 2023, 11:12:12 AM
I have a feeling that the Interstate 94/MN 101 interchange will remain in its existing configuration permanently.

I don't think it's going to remain in its current form, but it's probably too late for anything better than the DDI being proposed. Building a proper flyover similar to the "bypass" ramp from westbound 94 to northbound 101 would be expensive to start with, and likely require taking out at least four businesses entirely and some of the Target parking lot.
self-certified as the dumbest person on this board for 5 years running

NWI_Irish96

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on June 20, 2023, 01:20:03 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on June 20, 2023, 12:58:22 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on June 20, 2023, 12:52:42 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on June 20, 2023, 12:50:00 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on June 20, 2023, 12:37:17 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on June 20, 2023, 09:25:17 AM
Question for anybody in the Duluth area: What is the current status of I-535, or more importantly, what will the status be on the 27th/28th? Google maps says it's closed in both directions. I'm planning a trip up there and would hate to not clinch I-535 while there?

535 is completely closed between Garfield Avenue and I-35 until this fall.

OK, is the bridge at least open? I could at least finish off the last stretch of Wisconsin interstate I'm missing.

The bridge is open, yes.

OK, sorry to be a pain, but I want to be sure. Google maps is telling me that I can cross the bridge in either direction, but that Garfield Ave is closed at I-535, so in effect there's no way to get on/off I-535 at the north end of the bridge.

But you're saying I can cross the bridge northbound and exit at Garfield and get into Duluth from there?

Not a pain at all, it's good to check and be sure. That is correct that you can cross the Blatnik from Superior to Duluth and be forced off the freeway at Garfield Ave.

Thank you for indulging me. Ultimately I decided to skip Duluth on this trip. I'm not likely to get up there more than once and I want to be able to clinch all of I-535 when I do.

Hopefully next summer.
Indiana: counties 100%, highways 100%
Illinois: counties 100%, highways 61%
Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
Wisconsin: counties 86%, highways 23%



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