Dissatisfaction with modern American domestic life

[Max Rockatansky]

This is a phenomenon I tend to experience whenever I travel to the family home in Mexico or do something like camping.  Specifically there is something I really like about minimalism and making do with what you have.  That kind of is obvious with the camping scenario but maybe less so with the Mexico example. 

At the house in Mexico it is pretty bare bones all things considered.  The house is largely open air and basically brick based.  This means you have to deal with insects and loud noises given there essentially no barrier to either.  There isn't any air conditioning and about the best way to cool yourself is a fan in the shade.  We have basic cable which can be viewed through the twenty plus year old TV, no internet so far.  Appliances are largely manually operated (example lighting the hot water heater) and tend to very basic by modern standards.  There isn't really a yard to maintain as landscape tends to be native to the area.  Driving is a thing, but it is often easier just to walk places or ride a bike. 

Every time I come home from the above two scenarios to my modern domestic American life I tend to feel empty for some reason.  I don't feel like as though having a modern home along with everything it entails brings me much happiness, it feels hollow.  About the closest I've come State side to living as described above was on Cudjoe Key in a rental when I worked on base in Key West. 

The gist I've gotten on the forum is this line of thought tends to run contrary to my own.  Is anyone else out there dissatisfied with modern American domestic amenities and looking to minimize as much as possible?

[seicer]

I have a similar sentiment when traveling for weeks at a time, living and working out of my Subaru. Because it's my home-away-from-home, I tend to pack just the necessities: camera gear, laptop with attached storage, bedding, canister fuel and stove + provisions, battery pack, and a cooler. It's also literally been home as I've been homeless for a month (because of moving hiccups). I've enjoyed it and it makes me really become a minimalist and it makes me plan for daily life, which I really don't do when I am in a traditional house.

What do I really need to survive? Where can I sleep at? Where can I get a shower (or how)?

I feel refreshed after each overlanding trip but essentially decompress for a few days when I am at the house. There is a lot more distractions in the house that I wish I didn't have but it is what it is.

[webny99]

I sometimes get a feeling of emptiness/hollowness when returning from traveling, but I can't say I've ever associated it with modern lifestyle/amenities or the lack thereof... more just a feeling that I've done something enjoyable but now it's over and it's too bad it couldn't last forever.

I suppose I could be described as a minimalist in some ways... I've never liked clutter or having stuff just for the sake of having it, I have a very basic wardrobe that covers the basics but doesn't include anything that could be described as bright or flashy, and prefer quality over quantity when it comes to just about anything. But I certainly don't object to modern conveniences like dishwashers, washing machines, and especially air conditioning and the Internet. Not sure I could do without those last two! 

Since you mention insects and loud noises, neither of those bother me much. I'm used to pretty much all kinds of noise being from a good size family, and several years of sleeping in a modified lower level/basement cured me of any fear of insects as killing spiders etc. became a regular occurrence.

[J N Winkler]

The gist I've gotten on the forum is this line of thought tends to run contrary to my own.  Is anyone else out there dissatisfied with modern American domestic amenities and looking to minimize as much as possible?

There is a whole literature on how materialism breeds alienation--a Google search on {alienation of materialistic lifestyle} turns up interesting links.

This said, while I am very conscious of decompressing for a day or so after I return from a long trip, I can't honestly say that my usual approach to camping reflects a minimalist lifestyle, since I stay at developed campgrounds, drive a vehicle that likes paved roads, don't usually skip hot showers, and rely on a whole infrastructure of gas stations, big-box discounters, greasy-spoon establishments, etc. for food, fuel, and other necessities.  I'm not sorry to return to a microwave, oven, glass-top range, dishwasher, and refrigerator at home, because those appliances genuinely save time and labor when self-catering.  For me, I think the psychological transition has more to do with moving away from experiencing changes of scene on a daily basis  and returning to the grind of routine in the same place.

[Bruce]

Living in a city with active events generally helps, I find. I spend the weekends in Seattle or Bellevue and am generally happier doing so than being stuck in the suburbs.

[thspfc]

Everyone is entitled to their opinions. That said, I don't feel the same way as Max or others in this thread.

Through time humanity has made unbelievable advances that make our lives easier. You bet I'm going to take advantage of all of those I can afford, leaving more time to do things besides surviving.

Also, a feeling of emptiness upon returning home from traveling does not always, or even usually, reflect minimalism. Obviously going back to work is going to suck after a great vacation.

[webny99]

I sometimes get a feeling of emptiness/hollowness when returning from traveling, but I can't say I've ever associated it with modern lifestyle/amenities or the lack thereof... more just a feeling that I've done something enjoyable but now it's over and it's too bad it couldn't last forever.

For me, I think the psychological transition has more to do with moving away from experiencing changes of scene on a daily basis  and returning to the grind of routine in the same place.

Also, a feeling of emptiness upon returning home from traveling does not always, or even usually, reflect minimalism. Obviously going back to work is going to suck after a great vacation.

I find it interesting that three of us expressed a similar thought in three very different ways!

[In_Correct]

This is a phenomenon I tend to experience whenever I travel to the family home in Mexico or do something like camping.  Specifically there is something I really like about minimalism and making do with what you have.  That kind of is obvious with the camping scenario but maybe less so with the Mexico example. 

At the house in Mexico it is pretty bare bones all things considered.  The house is largely open air and basically brick based.  This means you have to deal with insects and loud noises given there essentially no barrier to either.  There isn’t any air conditioning and about the best way to cool yourself is a fan in the shade.  We have basic cable which can be viewed through the twenty plus year old TV, no internet so far.  Appliances are largely manually operated (example lighting the hot water heater) and tend to very basic by modern standards.  There isn’t really a yard to maintain as landscape tends to be native to the area.  Driving is a thing, but it is often easier just to walk places or ride a bike. 

Every time I come home from the above two scenarios to my modern domestic American life I tend to feel empty for some reason.  I don’t feel like as though having a modern home along with everything it entails brings me much happiness, it feels hollow.  About the closest I’ve come State side to living as described above was on Cudjoe Key in a rental when I worked on base in Key West. 

The gist I’ve gotten on the forum is this line of thought tends to run contrary to my own.  Is anyone else out there dissatisfied with modern American domestic amenities and looking to minimize as much as possible?

I generally agree. However ...

insects

It depends on the Insect. For example I love: Black Soldier Flies, Moths, Butterflies, and Ladybugs. This does not mean that I am going to leave any unscreened doors and unscreened windows.

H.V.A.C.

I love Heat Pumps, and can dehumidify the entire year. I do not want moisture to destroy the house.

Basic Cable

I have not missed it since 2007. Not much worth watching. And all the classic television is available with Outdoor Antennas.

Internet

As much as I hate it, I am not going to do with out it. It is not even possible.

Appliances

The only appliances I ever use are Slow Cookers, Electric Skillets, ... this includes Baby Electric Skillets that are so tiny they can fit in Cargo Pants Pockets. ... Dishwasher, Laundry Machines and the Washer is top load Impeller, Refrigerator, Freezer, Ice Machine ... It is separate appliance. Rice Machine, Coffee Machine, Tea Machine, Instant Water Heater. ... Also ... H.V.A.C. Is Package Units so the typical closet for them is empty.

Landscape

My land has no lawn. I never liked mowing lawns any ways.

Transportation

It is nice to ride buses and trains at least some times. Drivers of Automobiles can make me nervous. Walking and Riding Bicycles are dangerous. 

Dissatisfaction With Modern American Domestic Life

Modern

Lots of these things are surprisingly not Modern. They have been around for decades or even centuries. Any thing from Marker Boards to Battery Electric Vehicles to Diesel Electric Vehicles to Ordering On Line have been here for 50+ Years.

Dissatisfaction With Modern American Domestic Life Taken Literally

What I can gladly do with out is certain Cultures such as Too Long Did Not Read, News Feed & Weed, Stoners & Stories, that stupid band, and that stupid gamer, and gang culture.

I try to keep every thing in Simple English, avoiding Slang, and this also includes Initials. This is why steam is from my ears when I see advertisements for that stupid band, and Gang Culture seems to have made "Original" or perhaps "Classic" is now "The O.G." Or Original Gangster. ... Must Every Thing Be Gangster?! And that Gamer has changed probably every body's interactions with each other. "Bro" (and its variations) is some thing I limit to Relatives, people that I stayed with when younger ... and certainly not enemies. There is also the "Bro Fist", which is a type of Drug Transaction. I want absolutely nothing to do with Drugs nor Gangs ... this also includes Native African Black Males Wearing Socks With Sandals.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions. That said, I don’t feel the same way as Max or others in this thread.

Through time humanity has made unbelievable advances that make our lives easier. You bet I’m going to take advantage of all of those I can afford, leaving more time to do things besides surviving.

Also, a feeling of emptiness upon returning home from traveling does not always, or even usually, reflect minimalism. Obviously going back to work is going to suck after a great vacation.

Through time humanity has made unbelievable advances that make our lives easier. You bet I’m going to take advantage of all of those I can afford, leaving more time to do things besides surviving.

Not every thing that is unbelievable is an advance.

A Video For People Who Did Not Read:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aP2jErXpNS4

[Max Rockatansky]

For clarity the insects in question referenced in the original post were included annoyances like flies up to more exotic bugs like large locusts, army ants and roaches/water bugs.

[ethanhopkin14]

I sometimes get a feeling of emptiness/hollowness when returning from traveling, but I can't say I've ever associated it with modern lifestyle/amenities or the lack thereof... more just a feeling that I've done something enjoyable but now it's over and it's too bad it couldn't last forever.

For me, I think the psychological transition has more to do with moving away from experiencing changes of scene on a daily basis  and returning to the grind of routine in the same place.

Also, a feeling of emptiness upon returning home from traveling does not always, or even usually, reflect minimalism. Obviously going back to work is going to suck after a great vacation.

I find it interesting that three of us expressed a similar thought in three very different ways!

Count me in.  I am not a minimalist by any stretch, and may even be the opposite.  I like duplicates of everything, so when a charging cable gets lost or breaks, I have 18 more to back it up (and I get nervous when my back up supply dwindles).  Yes I also get very depressed when a vacation or travel comes to a close.  Some vacations I finally start getting used to a nomadic life, just to come back home and have to go to my usual work routine that I was running away from to begin with.  Another layer to my depressions is, I am the vacation planner of the family.  I plan it, the RV parks we go to, the National Parks we go to, the roadside attractions, the hikes, the beaches and of course the route we take.  When it's all over, all of that, the months and/or weeks of planning, plus the actual trip itself come to a screeching halt.  Sometimes it's a lot to take in. 

[Rothman]

"I try to keep every thing in Simple English, avoiding Slang, and this also includes Initials. This is why steam is from my ears when I see advertisements for that stupid band, and Gang Culture seems to have made "Original" or perhaps "Classic" is now "The O.G." Or Original Gangster. ... Must Every Thing Be Gangster?! And that Gamer has changed probably every body's interactions with each other. "Bro" (and its variations) is some thing I limit to Relatives, people that I stayed with when younger ... and certainly not enemies. There is also the "Bro Fist", which is a type of Drug Transaction. I want absolutely nothing to do with Drugs nor Gangs ... this also includes Native African Black Males Wearing Socks With Sandals."

Wut.

[In_Correct]

"I try to keep every thing in Simple English, avoiding Slang, and this also includes Initials. This is why steam is from my ears when I see advertisements for that stupid band, and Gang Culture seems to have made "Original" or perhaps "Classic" is now "The O.G." Or Original Gangster. ... Must Every Thing Be Gangster?! And that Gamer has changed probably every body's interactions with each other. "Bro" (and its variations) is some thing I limit to Relatives, people that I stayed with when younger ... and certainly not enemies. There is also the "Bro Fist", which is a type of Drug Transaction. I want absolutely nothing to do with Drugs nor Gangs ... this also includes Native African Black Males Wearing Socks With Sandals."

Wut.

"Wut." is also very  I have difficulty with this one also.

[SectorZ]

"I try to keep every thing in Simple English, avoiding Slang, and this also includes Initials. This is why steam is from my ears when I see advertisements for that stupid band, and Gang Culture seems to have made "Original" or perhaps "Classic" is now "The O.G." Or Original Gangster. ... Must Every Thing Be Gangster?! And that Gamer has changed probably every body's interactions with each other. "Bro" (and its variations) is some thing I limit to Relatives, people that I stayed with when younger ... and certainly not enemies. There is also the "Bro Fist", which is a type of Drug Transaction. I want absolutely nothing to do with Drugs nor Gangs ... this also includes Native African Black Males Wearing Socks With Sandals."

Wut.

"Wut." is also very  I have difficulty with this one also.

It's just the very sarcastic version of what. It appears to be well-earned in this case.

[ZLoth]

The problem with modern American life is that it has experienced tremendous change over the past few decades. Not only does the cost of housing take up a bigger percentage of a paycheck, but we are more connected than we were even ten years ago.... especially if you are in IT.

[vdeane]

There is a whole literature on how materialism breeds alienation--a Google search on {alienation of materialistic lifestyle} turns up interesting links.

Interesting in right!  In particular, I found an article from The Guardian, and this passage stood out to me:

Another paper, published in Psychological Science, found that people in a controlled experiment who were repeatedly exposed to images of luxury goods, to messages that cast them as consumers rather than citizens and to words associated with materialism (such as buy, status, asset and expensive), experienced immediate but temporary increases in material aspirations, anxiety and depression. They also became more competitive and more selfish, had a reduced sense of social responsibility and were less inclined to join in demanding social activities. The researchers point out that, as we are repeatedly bombarded with such images through advertisements, and constantly described by the media as consumers, these temporary effects could be triggered more or less continuously.

That would seem to summarize the breakdown of society quite well.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/dec/09/materialism-system-eats-us-from-inside-out

[hbelkins]

There are some modern amenities that I can certainly live without. I don't need a dishwasher or an electric can opener. Bare-bones basic models of other appliances/devices are also fine with me. A washing machine that washes, a dryer that dries, a refrigerator that keeps cold food cold and frozen food frozen, are all I need. I'm not a fan of all the bells and whistles that are standard on new vehicles. I can do without TPMS and backup cameras.

But having said that, I like the modern conveniences offered by technological developments and am not inclined to take a step backwards. That's one reason I'm not a fan of camping. My idea of "roughing it" is a motel where there's no refrigerator in the room and you have to bring a cooler inside to keep your drinks cold.

[Max Rockatansky]

The problem with modern American life is that it has experienced tremendous change over the past few decades. Not only does the cost of housing take up a bigger percentage of a paycheck, but we are more connected than we were even ten years ago.... especially if you are in IT.

Amusingly I feel about the same if not slightly less connected to the world than I did my younger years.  Granted, my Dad was also the Vice President of marketing for Prodigy Online during the 1990s.  I spent a considerable amount of time on early bulletin boards and chat rooms before the turn of the century.  Suffice to say we had a lot more access to online everything and stuff like early cellular technology than probably 99% of families in the 1990s.  I didn't have a cell phone after becoming an adult until my job paid (mandated I get one) in 2009.  I did go until about 2007 without internet, cable has been on/off my entire adult life. 

I do wonder sometimes if so much early exposure to modern communications technology turned me off to them somehow?  It was interesting to hear my Dad make presentations or do media interviews about how the internet and communications technology was the future given how right he was.  I certainly never really ever considered following in his footsteps career wise unlike my siblings.

[Scott5114]

The problem with modern American life is that it has experienced tremendous change over the past few decades. Not only does the cost of housing take up a bigger percentage of a paycheck, but we are more connected than we were even ten years ago.... especially if you are in IT.

The connectivity I don't have much of a problem with. I run a D&D game, which takes place in a medieval setting, so we essentially have a simulation of a less-connected world. The only long-distance communication medium is the mail, which takes a few days to get anywhere. This has turned into a major problem for the players many times; often the bad guy could be easily stopped from what they're doing if only the players could contact someone in the next city over, or alert the capital as to what's going on, or whatever. It's gotten to the point where each group of characters has made a point to figure out some way to shim in some sort of magical communication gadget to get around these limitations. Point being, when you have to live without, you realize how much worse it is. I wouldn't want to have to deal with that aspect of living in that world in real life.

The thing you mention about cost of housing is spot-on, though. The personal finance hive mind says your housing cost should be 30% of your income. I live in a decent-ish house in an okay-ish neighborhood. It's not a particularly desirable area but it's not the slums either. My house payment is $1038/month or $12,456/year, which is really affordable compared to a lot of cities. To follow that 30% rule, you would need an income of $41,520/year. Assuming you work an average 40 hour/week job, that comes out to roughly $20/hour. There are a few jobs around here that pay that much, but not many, and most of them involve busting your ass for tips, so getting the full $20/hour is never guaranteed. And this is living in a bottom-of-the-barrel state. If you want to live somewhere in America that's got a halfway-functional government, climate that doesn't suck, and schools worth a damn, you will be paying more, probably much much more.

A related source of dissatisfaction with modern American life is how it feels like we are nickel and dimed for so many things that previous generations weren't. And how you can end up with massive amounts of debt and not a whole lot to show for it (ask anyone under 40 with a college degree, or anyone who's needed a hospital, how that's working out for them). And if you really look at a lot of advertisements, they've completely given up on serving the common man and are instead focused on hawking luxury goods or solutions for business owners. This ties into the housing thing too because most new housing being built isn't workhorse housing for the middle class, it's luxury housing, because that's more profitable. Those of us in the middle class are basically forgotten about by corporate America because it's so much easier and more profitable to chase after a few dollars from the rich people.

[Max Rockatansky]

^^^

I never bothered to do the actual percentage on what our mortgage comprises out of our average net income but apparently it is 9.6%.  And people think I'm nuts for wanting to stay in central California until I max out my pension in ten years.  I'll have to use that percentage the next time my wife brings up getting a bigger house (which I don't want).

[jeffandnicole]

The problem with modern American life is that it has experienced tremendous change over the past few decades. Not only does the cost of housing take up a bigger percentage of a paycheck, but we are more connected than we were even ten years ago.... especially if you are in IT.

The times people are living in are always "modern".

Imagine the thrill people had when they first got a solid roof. Or indoor plumbing. Or electric. Or their first TV.

The advances we have today are significant compared to what people had in the 1980s. Which is significantly improved upon what people had in the 1940s.

[In_Correct]

This video is indeed how long people need to work. Hopefully if they do not get sick, they can work that long. Usually they hope to get a promotion during this time. With School Employees for example, I can think of six teachers. Five were promoted to Administration. These five are married. Another one barely paid her house off after a life of moving numerous times and also being a widow. Her house is cosigned by one of her sons, who now has the house. She worked full time until around 70. Probably in her 90s right now, she is staying with other family members. Despite working at Schools being stereotypically being abysmally low paying jobs, especially considering they must attend Graduate School successfully, there is an increasing amount of people who end up WORSE than that.

Or Just Watch The Video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eXU2p982GQ

[Dirt Roads]

I had a friend who had a couple of old-timey sawmills operated with steam engines.  One of those steam engines was also attached to a 10-foot log splitter (I've never seen one before or since).  Yet, when he wanted to set up a split rail fence along the road he hand-split all of the oak logs into (you guessed it) 10-foot sections.  At one time, he had more than a 1/4-mile of hand split stacked railing running in the three different sections along the edge of the road.

I sometimes have the same sentiments.  When I was growing up, there were very few power tools in West Virginia other than push mowers.  I would spend much of my summers mowing the weeds on a steep mountainside where my great-grandparents lived with a scythe (pronounced like "sigh" in much of West Virginia, with a silent TH).  Whenever I use a weedeater on some of our steep banks, I often long for an old scythe because it will cut a 30-inch swath whereas I'm lucky to cut a 14-inch swath with my weedeater.  At my age, I'd probably die just trying to swing it a few times on level ground, much less on a steep embankment.

[hbelkins]

I sometimes have the same sentiments.  When I was growing up, there were very few power tools in West Virginia other than push mowers.  I would spend much of my summers mowing the weeds on a steep mountainside where my great-grandparents lived with a scythe (pronounced like "sigh" in much of West Virginia, with a silent TH).  Whenever I use a weedeater on some of our steep banks, I often long for an old scythe because it will cut a 30-inch swath whereas I'm lucky to cut a 14-inch swath with my weedeater.  At my age, I'd probably die just trying to swing it a few times on level ground, much less on a steep embankment.

Around here, the tool's name was pronounced "size."

My dad had a couple of them, but they've long since gone missing. I wish I could find them, or purchase something similar. They're the best tool I've found for chopping down wild roses or blackberries.

[formulanone]

A related source of dissatisfaction with modern American life is how it feels like we are nickel and dimed for so many things that previous generations weren't.

I wish we were in an age of being nickel-and-dimed...we're Lincoln-and-Hamilton'd now.

There's a lot of personal and varied reasons for personal dissatisfaction, and I think a large part of it is the massive amounts of complexity that we've added to life. There's more to go wrong and that tends to put people on edge that something is potentially about to fail or leave less room for backup.

We also tend to be overloaded with information; on vacation, we tend to tune a lot of that out. We give ourselves the focus on other stimuli so we can avoid the typical everyday distractions.

Lastly, I think there's also a lot of artificial concerns that we have to occasionally let go. Everyone has to figure those out for themselves.

[index]

Part of me wants your standard American life. A decent place to live, a car that doesn't suck, a decent paying job, with someone to spend your days with. The other part of me wants to say ”to hell with it”, turn a school bus into an RV, and spend the rest of my life traveling around the country and doing odd jobs for a living.

I hate sameness. I've moved three times going on four in the past year, maybe even five depending on how things go with this contract I'm currently in, as I try to find what's right for me and adapt to the punches that have been thrown at me so far. I'd probably never succeed with the latter option but it's appealing. Wherever I do find myself, it's going to have to be interesting.