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Author Topic: I-49 in Arkansas  (Read 650435 times)

Bobby5280

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2200 on: September 29, 2018, 11:06:06 PM »

Quote from: wdcrft63
I-42 was assigned to North Carolina, of course; I-46 is probably the best fit.

I don't think the US-412 corridor between Tulsa and Springdale is long enough to justify burning another 2di Interstate designation, at least not unless the Western reaches extend well past Tulsa. FWIW, I think I-42 is a little silly for that "Intra-State" route in NC. OTOH there is a growing number of examples where duplicates of the same 2di route run in different parts of the country, such as the NC version of I-87. So it's possible for there to end up being two disconnected I-42 routes. If the decision was up to me those routes would probably just carry 3 digit Interstate designations.

Fictional territory alert: I think an "I-46" route ought to be built between Oklahoma City and Denver. More specifically, from OKC splitting off the Kilpatrick Turnpike and running diagonally thru Woodward then up into Western Kansas and ending at I-70 in Limon, CO. Taking the fantasy farther, the route should be extended SE down to a point near Texarkana, ending at I-49 (near Ashdown). In the OKC area the route would skirt the West and South sides of the metro, linking Yukon, Mustang and Norman. The combo of this route and I-49 would create an effective "Ports to Front Range" corridor.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2018, 11:09:12 PM by Bobby5280 »
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sparker

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2201 on: September 30, 2018, 03:54:21 AM »

Quote from: wdcrft63
I-42 was assigned to North Carolina, of course; I-46 is probably the best fit.

I don't think the US-412 corridor between Tulsa and Springdale is long enough to justify burning another 2di Interstate designation, at least not unless the Western reaches extend well past Tulsa. FWIW, I think I-42 is a little silly for that "Intra-State" route in NC. OTOH there is a growing number of examples where duplicates of the same 2di route run in different parts of the country, such as the NC version of I-87. So it's possible for there to end up being two disconnected I-42 routes. If the decision was up to me those routes would probably just carry 3 digit Interstate designations.

Fictional territory alert: I think an "I-46" route ought to be built between Oklahoma City and Denver. More specifically, from OKC splitting off the Kilpatrick Turnpike and running diagonally thru Woodward then up into Western Kansas and ending at I-70 in Limon, CO. Taking the fantasy farther, the route should be extended SE down to a point near Texarkana, ending at I-49 (near Ashdown). In the OKC area the route would skirt the West and South sides of the metro, linking Yukon, Mustang and Norman. The combo of this route and I-49 would create an effective "Ports to Front Range" corridor.

I'll respectfully disagree with the concept of "burning" a 2di number; unless one is engaging in a I-designation version of fantasy football, the pool of numbers (and there are a hell of a lot of even ones in the 40-60 range that would be appropriate for US 412 -- even the "holy grail" I-50) is there to be used for anything reasonable that comes along, and even a relatively short corridor such as one between I-35 and I-49 would connect disparate regions (the Great Plains, metro Tulsa, and NWA) -- enough to be appropriate for a trunk designation.  And since the "fourth wall" of Fictional has been breached here, Bobby's long-sought OKC-Denver corridor would be a great place to put a I-52:  like its US numerical equivalent, it would be a NW>SE diagonal -- and there would be no in-state conflict with that US route much further north and east. 

I certainly don't mind dipping into the 2di "pool" from time to time (NC obviously shares my preference; they'll likely use up another one under 40 for the E-W corridor through Charlotte in the not-too-distant future); much better than exceptionally long 3di's, which weren't part of the original numbering scheme -- or a travesty like the southern I-87 (I'll go to my grave ranting about that one!).   
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Bobby5280

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2202 on: September 30, 2018, 08:11:10 PM »

The problem with gratuitously using 2 digit Interstate designations on short routes is it raises multiple problems. One: it ignores future long term needs. We don't know how America's population will migrate and how/where they'll be driving decades from now. I think a 2-digit designation needs to run at least so many miles, but furthermore the 2-digit route needs to be far enough from other parallel 2-digit routes. The system needs to have some sense of balance. In Western states various Interstate routes are spread very very far apart. But Interstate routes are packed in like crazy in certain parts of the East.

North Carolina is going nuts with slapping 2-digit Interstate markers on all sorts of routes, many of them short and not even connected. That kind of makes a mockery of the Interstate system. It's a joke similar to the wacky crooked nature of certain new Interstate routes.

Quote from: sparker
And since the "fourth wall" of Fictional has been breached here, Bobby's long-sought OKC-Denver corridor would be a great place to put a I-52:  like its US numerical equivalent, it would be a NW>SE diagonal -- and there would be no in-state conflict with that US route much further north and east.

I keep bringing up I-46 for that fictional Denver-OKC route for a couple reasons. I-x4 and I-x6 routes are the next thing down from "major" East-West routes that end in zero. I-52 would probably be better used on a shorter route. Denver has a duplicate of I-76. The I-46 route would kind of go with that. It's like I-44 and I-64 ending in the St Louis metro area. I wish I-24 went farther than its current end at I-57. It would be cool if it went by Carbondale and diagonally up to Columbia, IL to cross the Mississippi into St Louis over what's currently I-255. I-24, I-44 and I-64 would all end in St Louis.

The idea of extending this I-46 concept from OKC to near Texarkana would also create an interesting intersection between I-46 and I-49.
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Plutonic Panda

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2203 on: September 30, 2018, 09:50:47 PM »

The OKC-Denver really should be Denver-New Orleans with OKC being in the middle. Would be a nice interstate to have even if there wouldnít be much traffic on it. Iíd support it.
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sparker

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2204 on: September 30, 2018, 11:54:17 PM »

The problem with gratuitously using 2 digit Interstate designations on short routes is it raises multiple problems. One: it ignores future long term needs. We don't know how America's population will migrate and how/where they'll be driving decades from now. I think a 2-digit designation needs to run at least so many miles, but furthermore the 2-digit route needs to be far enough from other parallel 2-digit routes. The system needs to have some sense of balance. In Western states various Interstate routes are spread very very far apart. But Interstate routes are packed in like crazy in certain parts of the East.

North Carolina is going nuts with slapping 2-digit Interstate markers on all sorts of routes, many of them short and not even connected. That kind of makes a mockery of the Interstate system. It's a joke similar to the wacky crooked nature of certain new Interstate routes.

Quote from: sparker
And since the "fourth wall" of Fictional has been breached here, Bobby's long-sought OKC-Denver corridor would be a great place to put a I-52:  like its US numerical equivalent, it would be a NW>SE diagonal -- and there would be no in-state conflict with that US route much further north and east.

I keep bringing up I-46 for that fictional Denver-OKC route for a couple reasons. I-x4 and I-x6 routes are the next thing down from "major" East-West routes that end in zero. I-52 would probably be better used on a shorter route. Denver has a duplicate of I-76. The I-46 route would kind of go with that. It's like I-44 and I-64 ending in the St Louis metro area. I wish I-24 went farther than its current end at I-57. It would be cool if it went by Carbondale and diagonally up to Columbia, IL to cross the Mississippi into St Louis over what's currently I-255. I-24, I-44 and I-64 would all end in St Louis.

The idea of extending this I-46 concept from OKC to near Texarkana would also create an interesting intersection between I-46 and I-49.

I don't think it's too terribly gratuitous, seeing as how the even-numbered pool between 26 and 64 has 14 available designations; only 3 corridors portending potential "raids" on this pool have even been discussed in this thread.  Put it this way -- there's not enough funding out there to even come close to depleting the supply of available Interstate 1di or 2di designations, particularly within the group just cited. 

And if you're going to extend your Denver-OKC corridor to Texarkana, please route it through Broken Bow -- my relatives down there could use the business!
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silverback1065

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2205 on: October 01, 2018, 08:37:16 AM »

we don't need all of these new interstates, it's annoying that we come up with these small, irrelevant excuses to build a new interstate.  What we have is fine.  It's just adding extraneous mileage we have no money to pay for. 
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In_Correct

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2206 on: October 01, 2018, 08:55:23 AM »

I remember about 15 years ago reading that US 412 between Tulsa and Arkansas was supposed to be Interstate 38. Itís been so long idr where I read it iPhone
I've never heard of that one.  Perhaps it was part of someone's fantasy/fictional highway musing.

Mike

Really!  If you're going to speculate about future corridors, you may as well place them in the grid appropriately (unless they're diagonals, in which case at least part of it should be grid-compatible!).  Placing I-38 north of I-40 just doesn't work.  If you look over in Fictional, things like I-42, 46, and 50 have been suggested for the US 412 corridor, particularly the portion between I-35 and I-49.  But given the priorities of the states through which the corridor passes, such a proposal would be at best well off into the future.

"Interstate 50" makes sense for U.S. 412.  :nod:
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MikieTimT

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2207 on: October 02, 2018, 10:31:35 AM »

I remember about 15 years ago reading that US 412 between Tulsa and Arkansas was supposed to be Interstate 38. Itís been so long idr where I read it iPhone
I've never heard of that one.  Perhaps it was part of someone's fantasy/fictional highway musing.

Mike

Really!  If you're going to speculate about future corridors, you may as well place them in the grid appropriately (unless they're diagonals, in which case at least part of it should be grid-compatible!).  Placing I-38 north of I-40 just doesn't work.  If you look over in Fictional, things like I-42, 46, and 50 have been suggested for the US 412 corridor, particularly the portion between I-35 and I-49.  But given the priorities of the states through which the corridor passes, such a proposal would be at best well off into the future.

"Interstate 50" makes sense for U.S. 412.  :nod:

That would be a good number for it.  No route 50 in Arkansas already to confuse things, and the US-412 runs from N.M. to Tennessee, so it's ultimately going to be a several state freeway ultimately, even if it does take our lifetimes to realize it.  I-49 and I-50 would make the numeric center of the interstate system have a junction in Lowell, AR, which is pretty much the center of Northwest Arkansas, which isn't that far from the population center of the country.  If folks have a problem with having a 2DI Interstate number on a shorter section from Tulsa to Lowell (Springdale) until it runs more than 100 miles, then there can be a temporary 3DI designation until the road gets fleshed out further, like I-549 or I-544.  That's pretty much what happened with I-49 in Arkansas until Missouri almost connected up with it and went ahead and had the designation changed on US-71.  Arkansas' designation was I-540 until all that was left was the Bella Vista Bypass to have a connection from I-70 to I-40.
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msunat97

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2208 on: October 16, 2018, 05:44:19 PM »

Question for the board...any updates to the construction thru NWA?  Is the construction wrapping up along 49 in the Fayetteville / Springdale areas?  Any activity from Missouri on getting funding for their last section to be completed?
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edwaleni

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2209 on: October 16, 2018, 07:52:55 PM »

Question for the board...any updates to the construction thru NWA?  Is the construction wrapping up along 49 in the Fayetteville / Springdale areas?  Any activity from Missouri on getting funding for their last section to be completed?

Missouri has a road tax increase on the November mid-term ballot. An attempt to have it thrown off as unconstitutional was tossed out.

As for construction through NWA, the only thing I can think of is the Springdale Bypass project and the AR section of the Bella Vista Bypass.

As for the Springdale Bypass, the ramps off I-49 are open going west, but it stops short of US-412 right now as construction continues.

As for the Bella Vista Bypass, AR is going to go ahead and finish their part of it to the Missouri state line regardless of the Missouri tax vote.

When the Bella Vista opens, posting volume in AARoads will drop by 30% as no one in NWA will have anything to talk about anymore.



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In_Correct

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2210 on: October 16, 2018, 08:15:49 PM »

Question for the board...any updates to the construction thru NWA?  Is the construction wrapping up along 49 in the Fayetteville / Springdale areas?  Any activity from Missouri on getting funding for their last section to be completed?

Missouri has a road tax increase on the November mid-term ballot. An attempt to have it thrown off as unconstitutional was tossed out.

As for construction through NWA, the only thing I can think of is the Springdale Bypass project and the AR section of the Bella Vista Bypass.

As for the Springdale Bypass, the ramps off I-49 are open going west, but it stops short of US-412 right now as construction continues.

As for the Bella Vista Bypass, AR is going to go ahead and finish their part of it to the Missouri state line regardless of the Missouri tax vote.

When the Bella Vista opens, posting volume in AARoads will drop by 30% as no one in NWA will have anything to talk about anymore.

Or you could post pictures of the highway construction and also after it opens.  :nod:
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MikieTimT

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2211 on: October 16, 2018, 10:21:19 PM »

There is still construction going on in Bentonville/Rogers between exits 83 and 88.  It is down to 4 lanes in that stretch other than the Exit Only lanes for 85 and 86 until they finish up the new 8th Street exit which will likely be Exit 87 and build a new overpass over 71B at Exit 85.  And of course the Bella Vista Bypass still isn't funded by Missouri for sure yet.
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MikieTimT

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2212 on: October 16, 2018, 10:29:05 PM »

Question for the board...any updates to the construction thru NWA?  Is the construction wrapping up along 49 in the Fayetteville / Springdale areas?  Any activity from Missouri on getting funding for their last section to be completed?

Missouri has a road tax increase on the November mid-term ballot. An attempt to have it thrown off as unconstitutional was tossed out.

As for construction through NWA, the only thing I can think of is the Springdale Bypass project and the AR section of the Bella Vista Bypass.

As for the Springdale Bypass, the ramps off I-49 are open going west, but it stops short of US-412 right now as construction continues.

As for the Bella Vista Bypass, AR is going to go ahead and finish their part of it to the Missouri state line regardless of the Missouri tax vote.

When the Bella Vista opens, posting volume in AARoads will drop by 30% as no one in NWA will have anything to talk about anymore.

That's not true!  Then the topic will change focus to the I-49 stretch between I-40 and AR-22 that has a half billion dollar unfunded bridge over the Arkansas River that's needed before the AR-549 segment between AR-22 and US-71 south of Ft. Smith gets connected up.  That's likely the last part of I-49 in Arkansas for a couple of decades unless the U.S. comes up with some different funding mechanisms for new Interstate projects.  Or Arkansas' economy booms so much that we suddenly cease to be 48th or 49th in everything nationally.  We seem to run with Mississippi and West Virginia in most things that people view as things to strive for excellence in.  Except for obesity and teenage pregnancy!
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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2213 on: October 17, 2018, 09:12:43 AM »

Question for the board...any updates to the construction thru NWA?  Is the construction wrapping up along 49 in the Fayetteville / Springdale areas?  Any activity from Missouri on getting funding for their last section to be completed?

Missouri has a road tax increase on the November mid-term ballot. An attempt to have it thrown off as unconstitutional was tossed out.

As for construction through NWA, the only thing I can think of is the Springdale Bypass project and the AR section of the Bella Vista Bypass.

As for the Springdale Bypass, the ramps off I-49 are open going west, but it stops short of US-412 right now as construction continues.

As for the Bella Vista Bypass, AR is going to go ahead and finish their part of it to the Missouri state line regardless of the Missouri tax vote.

When the Bella Vista opens, posting volume in AARoads will drop by 30% as no one in NWA will have anything to talk about anymore.



I beg to differ.

We could talk about the proposed SPUI in Fayetteville at US 62, the Wedington Drive (AR 16) interchange reconstruction, widening 49 to Alma (someday, I'm sure), or the Exit 67 mixmaster.
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GreenLanternCorps

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2214 on: October 17, 2018, 02:13:55 PM »

Question for the board...any updates to the construction thru NWA?  Is the construction wrapping up along 49 in the Fayetteville / Springdale areas?  Any activity from Missouri on getting funding for their last section to be completed?

Missouri has a road tax increase on the November mid-term ballot. An attempt to have it thrown off as unconstitutional was tossed out.

As for construction through NWA, the only thing I can think of is the Springdale Bypass project and the AR section of the Bella Vista Bypass.

As for the Springdale Bypass, the ramps off I-49 are open going west, but it stops short of US-412 right now as construction continues.

As for the Bella Vista Bypass, AR is going to go ahead and finish their part of it to the Missouri state line regardless of the Missouri tax vote.

When the Bella Vista opens, posting volume in AARoads will drop by 30% as no one in NWA will have anything to talk about anymore.

That's not true!  Then the topic will change focus to the I-49 stretch between I-40 and AR-22 that has a half billion dollar unfunded bridge over the Arkansas River that's needed before the AR-549 segment between AR-22 and US-71 south of Ft. Smith gets connected up.  That's likely the last part of I-49 in Arkansas for a couple of decades unless the U.S. comes up with some different funding mechanisms for new Interstate projects.  Or Arkansas' economy booms so much that we suddenly cease to be 48th or 49th in everything nationally.  We seem to run with Mississippi and West Virginia in most things that people view as things to strive for excellence in.  Except for obesity and teenage pregnancy!



We'll always have Ft. Smith...
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O Tamandua

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2215 on: October 17, 2018, 10:46:02 PM »

Question for the board...any updates to the construction thru NWA?  Is the construction wrapping up along 49 in the Fayetteville / Springdale areas?  Any activity from Missouri on getting funding for their last section to be completed?

Missouri has a road tax increase on the November mid-term ballot. An attempt to have it thrown off as unconstitutional was tossed out.

As for construction through NWA, the only thing I can think of is the Springdale Bypass project and the AR section of the Bella Vista Bypass.

As for the Springdale Bypass, the ramps off I-49 are open going west, but it stops short of US-412 right now as construction continues.

As for the Bella Vista Bypass, AR is going to go ahead and finish their part of it to the Missouri state line regardless of the Missouri tax vote.

When the Bella Vista opens, posting volume in AARoads will drop by 30% as no one in NWA will have anything to talk about anymore.

Arkansas and Missouri are awaiting the possibility of a BUILD grant this December to finish the bypass on the Missouri side.  It's been reported that there's a lot of optimism about this one - Sen. Tom Cotton (R-AR) is standing behind it.  We will see.
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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2216 on: Today at 11:43:19 AM »

As for construction through NWA, the only thing I can think of is the Springdale Bypass project and the AR section of the Bella Vista Bypass.

Another segment of the Springdale bypass is under construction now? I noticed on Google Street View that the second carriageway is currently under construction along the Bella Vista Bypass between CR 34 and AR 72. Also of note: new signs have been posted along the BVB that shows exit numbers in the 200s; presumably for the ultimate build out of I-49.
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US71

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2217 on: Today at 12:07:26 PM »

As for construction through NWA, the only thing I can think of is the Springdale Bypass project and the AR section of the Bella Vista Bypass.

Another segment of the Springdale bypass is under construction now? I noticed on Google Street View that the second carriageway is currently under construction along the Bella Vista Bypass between CR 34 and AR 72. Also of note: new signs have been posted along the BVB that shows exit numbers in the 200s; presumably for the ultimate build out of I-49.

ARDOT started the second carriageway back in the Spring so they can be ready whenever Missouri get going. 

The exit signs are new-ish. Last time I was there (January?) , the exits weren't signed.  ARDOT is supposed to be replacing most of the exit signs on 49 sometime this Fall, but never responded when I asked if they'd be updating the exit numbers. I guess maybe they are, so I need to document all the current signs for posterity.

As far as the 412/ Springdale Bypass, I've seen no updates. The next segment will likely be west of AR 112 so XNA can build their toll road.
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wdcrft63

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2218 on: Today at 06:58:12 PM »

Question for the board...any updates to the construction thru NWA?  Is the construction wrapping up along 49 in the Fayetteville / Springdale areas?  Any activity from Missouri on getting funding for their last section to be completed?

Missouri has a road tax increase on the November mid-term ballot. An attempt to have it thrown off as unconstitutional was tossed out.

As for construction through NWA, the only thing I can think of is the Springdale Bypass project and the AR section of the Bella Vista Bypass.

As for the Springdale Bypass, the ramps off I-49 are open going west, but it stops short of US-412 right now as construction continues.

As for the Bella Vista Bypass, AR is going to go ahead and finish their part of it to the Missouri state line regardless of the Missouri tax vote.

When the Bella Vista opens, posting volume in AARoads will drop by 30% as no one in NWA will have anything to talk about anymore.

Arkansas and Missouri are awaiting the possibility of a BUILD grant this December to finish the bypass on the Missouri side.  It's been reported that there's a lot of optimism about this one - Sen. Tom Cotton (R-AR) is standing behind it.  We will see.
People hate obvious freeway gaps, especially short ones that require long detours. The more Arkansas builds, the greater the pressure on Missouri to fill the gap.
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Gordon

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2219 on: Today at 07:06:51 PM »

The bid for updating the signs from Alma to Bella Vista is Oct. 24th.
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