I-49 in Arkansas

[sparker]

so will this be a full interstate grade facility the whole way?

The airport road? I'm not sure

412

Yes. new 412 will be controlled access.

What type is the new I-49/Bypass 412 interchange?  Trumpet, directional (semi-), diamond, cloverleaf, other? 

[triplemultiplex]

What type is the new I-49/Bypass 412 interchange?  Trumpet, directional (semi-), diamond, cloverleaf, other? 

Looking at the ol' Google Earth, it's looking like partial build-out of a four-level stack.
(A stack that oddly preserves the local road configuration.)

[silverback1065]

seems like overkill

[MikieTimT]

seems like overkill

Considering that US 412 is ultimately likely to become an Interstate in the (probably distant) future, it's just getting ahead of the curve for a change.  Where the forced exit is currently, you can see where the carriageway will ultimately extend eventually under the current overpass.  There will have to be another tier for the overpass coming from the east side of I-49 for southbound traffic when the bypass gets built out to the other side of Sonora.

[sparker]

seems like overkill

Considering that US 412 is ultimately likely to become an Interstate in the (probably distant) future, it's just getting ahead of the curve for a change.  Where the forced exit is currently, you can see where the carriageway will ultimately extend eventually under the current overpass.  There will have to be another tier for the overpass coming from the east side of I-49 for southbound traffic when the bypass gets built out to the other side of Sonora.

That's the first I've heard regarding an Interstate concept for US 412 outside the Fictional realm -- although some sort of controlled-access/signal-less connection to Tulsa would be a worthwhile endeavor to enhance the connection between that city and NWA.  A Siloam Springs bypass might pose a political problem (IIRC that's been suggested before but dismissed), but the portion in OK, including the Cherokee Turnpike, seems doable.  But even extending the new segment west of I-49 to the west might be fiscally difficult in the near term -- so I wouldn't expect to see a new more comprehensive corridor concept brought up for quite some time.

[MikieTimT]

I can't exactly remember where I read it, and I cannot seem to find it anymore in a Google search, but I thought the 400 series US highways were numbered that way to indicate some sort of high-priority corridor, so it would make sense that ultimately, it would become an Interstate.  Political and financial realities come and go over time, so it's not likely to happen anytime soon, regardless.

[abqtraveler]

I can't exactly remember where I read it, and I cannot seem to find it anymore in a Google search, but I thought the 400 series US highways were numbered that way to indicate some sort of high-priority corridor, so it would make sense that ultimately, it would become an Interstate.  Political and financial realities come and go over time, so it's not likely to happen anytime soon, regardless.

That might be true.  I recall reading somewhere many years ago that US-400 was a precursor designation for what would have been a planned (and now dead) extension of I-66 through Kansas and southern Colorado.

[sparker]

I can't exactly remember where I read it, and I cannot seem to find it anymore in a Google search, but I thought the 400 series US highways were numbered that way to indicate some sort of high-priority corridor, so it would make sense that ultimately, it would become an Interstate.  Political and financial realities come and go over time, so it's not likely to happen anytime soon, regardless.

That might be true.  I recall reading somewhere many years ago that US-400 was a precursor designation for what would have been a planned (and now dead) extension of I-66 through Kansas and southern Colorado.

Both US 400 east of Wichita and US 412 east of Tulsa are part of the first batch of high priority corridors (#3 and #8 respectively) commissioned back in 1991 as part of the ISTEA legislation.  HPC #3 was an outgrowth of the "Transamerica" pipedream corridor cobbled together by various interests from Fresno, CA, Wichita, KS, and southern KY as a "I-66" proposal intended to serve regions previously bypassed by the Interstate system.  Relatively tightly defined between Wichita and West Virginia, it "petered out" heading west, mostly because of environmental objections to a route through both the Rocky Mountains of southern Colorado and the various national parks & monuments in Utah and Arizona.  And political considerations took it on a convoluted path eastward that ended up in Virginia Beach.  Certain portions of the route could, however, be considered intraregional SIU's; one of those was the Wichita-I-44 corridor; which was mostly overlaid on former KS 96 and which became US 400's eastern end, serving as a singularly-signed corridor from Wichita to eastward I-44 and vice-versa. 

HPC #8 was less nationally ambitious but with much the same rationale -- located across zones that were for the most part well away from established Interstate corridors; in this case, right across the heart of the Ozark Plateau.  US 412 was subsequently established as the "placeholder" for this corridor, often utilizing long multiplexes with existing routes (particularly US 62 in northern AR) where a new-terrain route would be both duplicative and pointless.  Political influence brought it across south-central TN to a terminus at I-65 where, lo and behold, there was considerable industrial development (the former Saturn automotive assembly facility was very near the eastern US 412/HPC #8 terminus).  Corridor status has primarily resulted in "spot" improvements to its roadways, particularly around Mountain Home Lake in AR and the former TN 20 between Dyersburg and Jackson, TN, which was brought up to expressway standards.  And while US 412 itself was extended west of Tulsa into NM (mostly on multiplexes), that part was never a designated high priority corridor.  The Springdale bypass is an integral part of that corridor; but like others of its ilk, any funding is done on a piecemeal basis and dependent upon the usual legislative machinations that characterize today's developmental modus operandi -- which is why its length, and current prospects for extension, is limited.     

[Wayward Memphian]

US 412 from Huntsville to Harrison needs expressway'd as fast as possible after we pull a rabbit out of our butt for the rest of the Springdale bypass and a legit Siloam Springs expressway bypass. That 35 miles stretch between Huntsville and Alpena can be brutal.

I dream of it becoming an extension Of I-22 at least to Tulsa, incorporating it with I-555 and a new bridge north of Memphis that tries into I-69/I-269, making most of the I-269 loop become I-22.

[Tomahawkin]

My same thoughts about IH 22 being extended to Tulsa via IH 555 and US 412. north central Arkansas could be a crossroads for commerce with the IH 57 expansion...

[MikieTimT]

US 412 from Huntsville to Harrison needs expressway'd as fast as possible after we pull a rabbit out of our butt for the rest of the Springdale bypass and a legit Siloam Springs expressway bypass. That 35 miles stretch between Huntsville and Alpena can be brutal.

I dream of it becoming an extension Of I-22 at least to Tulsa, incorporating it with I-555 and a new bridge north of Memphis that tries into I-69/I-269, making most of the I-269 loop become I-22.

That would be a handy stretch of freeway for multiple reasons.  It's going to have to happen eventually due to the growth of both northern corners of Arkansas.  The northwest corner is still the 14th fastest growing area of the nation, and soon to be in the top 100 MSAs.  Roads have just got to keep up.

[Tomahawkin]

I agree, having a East-west interstate in N Arkansas would relieve some of the traffic, especially trucks off of IH 540. This becoming a reality is 15 years away IMO

[sparker]

US 412 from Huntsville to Harrison needs expressway'd as fast as possible after we pull a rabbit out of our butt for the rest of the Springdale bypass and a legit Siloam Springs expressway bypass. That 35 miles stretch between Huntsville and Alpena can be brutal.

I dream of it becoming an extension Of I-22 at least to Tulsa, incorporating it with I-555 and a new bridge north of Memphis that tries into I-69/I-269, making most of the I-269 loop become I-22.

That would be a handy stretch of freeway for multiple reasons.  It's going to have to happen eventually due to the growth of both northern corners of Arkansas.  The northwest corner is still the 14th fastest growing area of the nation, and soon to be in the top 100 MSAs.  Roads have just got to keep up.

If perchance something like this does get developed as a limited-access facility, it'll be limited -- at least initially -- to a connector between NWA and Tulsa; anything east of there will be "spot" fixes on US 412 to address very specific and localized issues.  It'll come down to a matter of traffic potential -- and connecting an existing metro area to one that's growing -- particularly if a good portion of the corridor is already built -- would be a feasible -- from both political and logistical standpoints -- undertaking.  Extending that corridor east through the Ozarks is another story; it may be done eventually, but it'll be a long, slow incremental process; the pressing or glaring need that would be necessary to precipitate such action presently just isn't there.   

[Bobby5280]

I certainly wouldn't mind seeing an Interstate quality route running the whole way between Tulsa and Springdale. The at-grade intersections on US-412 between Tulsa and the West end of the Cherokee Turnpike need to be eliminated. The turnpike would probably have to be extended to the AR state line due to US-412 being too badly encroached by properties from Dripping Springs to the border. The new US-412 bypass North of Springdale will complete a big chunk of the route. But there's still going to be a non-freeway gap in Siloam Springs.

As for US-412 East of Springdale, converting that to Interstate quality is a tougher sell. Aside from the cost & environmental concerns, there is big picture level competition coming from the US-60 corridor in Southern MO. US-60 is a lot farther along at being upgraded to expressway or freeway quality. That makes the concept of a Memphis to Springfield Interstate highway much more do-able. It could be extended farther West to Wichita along the US-400 corridor. I wouldn't call such a thing "I-22" though. I don't think the I-22 designation should extend above I-40.

I had one fictional idea of an I-50 corridor running from Jacksonville, FL to Provo, UT -but that would end up eating all of I-22 in the process of hitting cities like Albany, Columbus, Birmingham, Memphis, Springfield, Wichita, Pueblo and Grand Junction.

In Oklahoma US-412 is getting more 4-lane upgrades here and there. I saw a dream map of sorts for potential new Oklahoma turnpikes and they have one going as far as Boise City clear out in the Panhandle. It might be nice for the Cimarron Turnpike to be extended West thru Enid and to Woodward.

[sparker]

^^^^^^^^
Given OK's seemingly perpetual lack of funds for transportation purposes, the prospects for extending any limited-access facilities in the northwest quadrant of the state (i.e., north of I-40 and west of I-35), tolled or not, would appear to be slim, despite the presence of "wish lists".  The only inducement for any such routes in that neck of the woods would be as a bypass of OKC -- something diverting I-40 traffic to either a northward facility such as I-35 or an alternate eastward bypass -- a Cimarron Turnpike extension, veering south at some point to I-40, might fit that bill well.  But discussing that any further should be reserved for a Fictional thread.  I'd guess that extending a tolled facility into NW OK, unless of the sort just described, would have a difficult time earning back its developmental cost -- there aren't just that many significant traffic generators (or destinations, for that matter) in that part of the state.

[The Ghostbuster]

I see US 412 from Interstate 35 in Oklahoma to Interstate 49 in Arkansas possibly being upgraded into a freeway/tollway combo with no at-grade intersections, and access only at interchanges. West of Interstate 35, and east of the future eastern terminus of the future US 412 Springdale Bypass, I'm not so sure. I'll defer to others on that.

[sparker]

^^^^^^^
That's probably about it for near-term possibilities; at that point there will be a continuous freeway/toll road from I-35 to I-49 (and fully limited access once that at-grade crossing west of Tulsa near the lake is addressed) to I-49 and NWA.  That'll take care of the most pressing connectivity and regional traffic issues; any extensions in either direction will have to wait until such time as there's ample funding to do so -- and unless there's a series of sea changes at both state and federal levels in terms of revenue raising and general philosophy, that probably won't happen in most of our lifetimes.   

[Bobby5280]

Given OK's seemingly perpetual lack of funds for transportation purposes, the prospects for extending any limited-access facilities in the northwest quadrant of the state (i.e., north of I-40 and west of I-35), tolled or not, would appear to be slim, despite the presence of "wish lists".

The Indian Nation Turnpike from Henryetta down to Hugo is a pretty odd, remote route. Henryetta to Durant (along the Tulsa to Dallas corridor) would have made a hell of a lot more sense. Paris, TX isn't exactly a major destination for Tulsa traffic.

The OTA is able to "cross-pledge" funds from profitable turnpikes (Turner, Will Rogers) to cover shortfalls on other turnpikes, as well as fund expansion plans like the widening of I-44 West of Tulsa or the Eastern Oklahoma County turnpike. Woodward has shown up from time to time in long term future expansion plans. I would like to see the OTA expand its system out in that direction since it could set some of the groundwork in place for a direct Denver to OKC diagonal highway. That's a glaring missing link in the Interstate system currently.

[sparker]

The Indian Nation Turnpike from Henryetta down to Hugo is a pretty odd, remote route. Henryetta to Durant (along the Tulsa to Dallas corridor) would have made a hell of a lot more sense. Paris, TX isn't exactly a major destination for Tulsa traffic.

The southern terminus of the Indian Nation near Hugo was in all likelihood politically motivated, functionally "throwing a bone" to SE OK.  Weyerhaeuser Lumber has multiple facilities spread out along US 70 from Hugo east to the state line, including a huge mill in Valliant.  My grandfather was the lumber grading manager at their Broken Bow plant for several decades until he retired in the '50's; that plant closed down about 1965 or so in favor of an expanded Valliant plant.  One of the older original small-town WalMarts was located on the site of the old mill where US 70/259 crosses the TO&E rail line.  But the lumber producer is only one major player in the region; Tyson has a huge processing plant between Broken Bow and Idabel -- the single largest employment site in the area.  Between lumber, agriculture, and food processing, there's a lot of commercial activity in SE OK!  The INTP was the initial high-capacity route into the area; US 70 is being upgraded in bits and pieces (Idabel & Durant bypass; Hugo was bypassed as an extension of the INTP), although a major corridor-length expansion doesn't seem to be on the table.  I suppose when the INTP was planned, it was figured that the composite US 69/75 corridor would eventually be upgraded as a matter of course (the freeway section north of McAlester attests to that) -- but that situation is more than adequately covered in other threads. 

[rte66man]

The Indian Nation Turnpike from Henryetta down to Hugo is a pretty odd, remote route. Henryetta to Durant (along the Tulsa to Dallas corridor) would have made a hell of a lot more sense. Paris, TX isn't exactly a major destination for Tulsa traffic.

The southern terminus of the Indian Nation near Hugo was in all likelihood politically motivated, functionally "throwing a bone" to SE OK.  The INTP was the initial high-capacity route into the area; US 70 is being upgraded in bits and pieces (Idabel & Durant bypass; Hugo was bypassed as an extension of the INTP), although a major corridor-length expansion doesn't seem to be on the table.  I suppose when the INTP was planned, it was figured that the composite US 69/75 corridor would eventually be upgraded as a matter of course (the freeway section north of McAlester attests to that) -- but that situation is more than adequately covered in other threads. 

FTFY

Just like OK6 from Altus to Elk City, the US70 corridor from Ardmore to Idabel will eventually be upgraded to expressway standards.   As you mentioned, the Weyerhouser and Tyson traffic alone justifies much of that. The rest was a political payoff to get improvements in the urban areas.  The Madill bypass was supposed to be the next big project but it has been put on hold.  Replacing the Roosevelt bridge over Lake Texoma has shown up in the most recent release of the 8 Year Plan. 

[M86]

That's the first I've heard regarding an Interstate concept for US 412 outside the Fictional realm -- although some sort of controlled-access/signal-less connection to Tulsa would be a worthwhile endeavor to enhance the connection between that city and NWA.  A Siloam Springs bypass might pose a political problem (IIRC that's been suggested before but dismissed), but the portion in OK, including the Cherokee Turnpike, seems doable.  But even extending the new segment west of I-49 to the west might be fiscally difficult in the near term -- so I wouldn't expect to see a new more comprehensive corridor concept brought up for quite some time.

I think one of the stupidest things ARDOT (then AHTD) did when I lived in Arkansas was to not build a bypass at Siloam Springs on US 412. And it was a thing where they came and asked: would you rather have a bypass or improve/widen the highway through the city, IIRC.
The city was against it, and possibly a bunch of residents, and probably politics were thrown in there. So they widened the road to 3 lanes in each direction with a median and a ton of traffic signals. At least they added the median.

Absolutely no forward thinking in that decision. It reminds me a bit of US 85 in Belle Fourche, SD (obviously on a much, much smaller scale). SDDOT came in and asked "bypass or widen US 85 through downtown". And of course, the city/locals didn't want the bypass and then complained when semi trucks were roaring through downtown once it was widened/improved (mainly due to the ND oil boom, but still).

[Arkansastravelguy]

I remember about 15 years ago reading that US 412 between Tulsa and Arkansas was supposed to be Interstate 38. It's been so long idr where I read it


iPhone

[mgk920]

I remember about 15 years ago reading that US 412 between Tulsa and Arkansas was supposed to be Interstate 38. It's been so long idr where I read it iPhone

I've never heard of that one.  Perhaps it was part of someone's fantasy/fictional highway musing.

Mike

[sparker]

I remember about 15 years ago reading that US 412 between Tulsa and Arkansas was supposed to be Interstate 38. It's been so long idr where I read it iPhone

I've never heard of that one.  Perhaps it was part of someone's fantasy/fictional highway musing.

Mike

Really!  If you're going to speculate about future corridors, you may as well place them in the grid appropriately (unless they're diagonals, in which case at least part of it should be grid-compatible!).  Placing I-38 north of I-40 just doesn't work.  If you look over in Fictional, things like I-42, 46, and 50 have been suggested for the US 412 corridor, particularly the portion between I-35 and I-49.  But given the priorities of the states through which the corridor passes, such a proposal would be at best well off into the future.

[wdcrft63]

I remember about 15 years ago reading that US 412 between Tulsa and Arkansas was supposed to be Interstate 38. It's been so long idr where I read it iPhone

I've never heard of that one.  Perhaps it was part of someone's fantasy/fictional highway musing.

Mike

Really!  If you're going to speculate about future corridors, you may as well place them in the grid appropriately (unless they're diagonals, in which case at least part of it should be grid-compatible!).  Placing I-38 north of I-40 just doesn't work.  If you look over in Fictional, things like I-42, 46, and 50 have been suggested for the US 412 corridor, particularly the portion between I-35 and I-49.  But given the priorities of the states through which the corridor passes, such a proposal would be at best well off into the future.

I-42 was assigned to North Carolina, of course; I-46 is probably the best fit.