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Pennsylvania

Started by Alex, March 07, 2009, 07:01:05 PM

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NJRoadfan

"New York" is from the days the Somerset Freeway was supposed to be completed. Before the last sign replacement a few years ago, the pull through at the beginning of I-295 South/Exit 67 used to say "SOUTH I-295 TO I-195-NORTH I-95/Bordentown/New York" with no NJTP shield.

As for PA, they were in an awkward position where I-95 wasn't finished and really couldn't use a control city north of Trenton. They likely weren't keen on using Princeton since an Interstate doesn't actually go there.


NE2

Quote from: NJRoadfan on November 22, 2013, 01:16:44 AM
As for PA, they were in an awkward position where I-95 wasn't finished and really couldn't use a control city north of Trenton. They likely weren't keen on using Princeton since an Interstate doesn't actually go there.
But an Interstate goes to Trenton?
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

roadman65

Actually the signage at the US 1/ I-95 Interchange at Oxford Valley was erected sometime in late 90 or early 91.  They were going up prior to my move to Central Florida and the first time seeing them in place was May 90.  I had moved to Florida from New Jersey in August 1990 when just the supports were up, but no sign bridge truss.

The US 1 Freeway opened up in 1987 sometime around, and all the signs at that particular interchange read Yardley for I-95 NB and one sign in particular (it may still be there today) had New York for a control heading SB on US 1.  On I-95 itself, it did not even have a route number for US 1.  US 1 Business was actually signed as US 1 up until this project completed after I moved despite the freeway being completed to Morrisville.  Even near Neshaminy just north of the PA Turnpike on US 1, had US 1 exit at US 1 Business after the freeway completion as well.  It took them years before PennDOT corrected their mistake as well.

Anyway, the signs on I-95 for US 1 (now US 1 Business) used "Trenton" as control city as well as "Pendell" for PA 413.  The sign was actually made so that when the US 1 freeway was to eventually be completed, all they had to do was remove a panel from those exit guides.  Hence the "US 1 Trenton" was tacked on top of the sign that read "PA 413 Pendell" in the same manner "US 202 South" was tacked onto "PA 611 North Easton" on the Doyelstown Bypass before the Parkway was completed.  They actually thought ahead, but when the time came (in case of US 1 anyway) they forgot about the fact that signs needed to be updated.  VDOT does it in Virginia, especially in Fredericksburg when US 1 Alternate was decommissioned in 1972, as many signs still show US 1 Business (and US 17 Business) as US 1 (US 17) and mainline US 1 as "ALT. US 1" as far late as the 2000's.  Alps has a picture on his website of the gantry entering Fredericksburg from US 1 Southbound of the signs that were never changed.

I wrote PennDOT about it, and the representative who wrote me back (on paper back in 97) that he agreed with Trenton needed to be signed on US 1 and Princeton for I-95.  He even assured me that he submitted a work order to change the signs and was in the works at the time.  Now 16 years later the signs still have not been changed.  Obviously PennDOT is not organized as well as oriented.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

PHLBOS

#53
Quote from: NE2 on November 22, 2013, 12:08:02 AMInterestingly at the PA 332 interchange most signs say Princeton but one has Trenton (and from there I-95 north to NJ 29 is the shorter way to Trenton). I can't tell which are older on the Goog. On Taylorsville Road are Clearview and older Trenton signs (at that interchange I-95 north is the clear winner).
Looking at that interchange signage more closely and having lived in PA for 24 years; I can tell you without a doubt that the overhead BGS' (that list Princeton & Philadelphia for I-95 North & South) are indeed newer than the smaller, post-mounted LGS' that list Trenton and Central Phila. for the two respective I-95 directions.  The taller first-letter for the cardinal directions (on the BGS') are the dead give-away.  The previous 80s-vintage BGS' (that had the Trenton/Central Phila. destinations) did not have the taller single letters.  The LGS dates back to the 80s but the accompanying shields are likely newer replacements.

The newer BGS' and gantries likely date back to either the late 90s or early 2000s when PA 332 & the overpass was completely redone/redecked.  Needless to say, those BGS' predate PennDOT's using of the Clearview font (thankfully IMHO).

Quote from: NJRoadfan on November 22, 2013, 01:16:44 AM
"New York" is from the days the Somerset Freeway was supposed to be completed.
No doubt about that.

Quote from: NJRoadfan on November 22, 2013, 01:16:44 AMAs for PA, they were in an awkward position where I-95 wasn't finished and really couldn't use a control city north of Trenton. They likely weren't keen on using Princeton since an Interstate doesn't actually go there.
One could argue that had the Somerset Freeway (I-95) been built; an Interstate would've indeed gone through or by there.  :)

Apparently, PennDOT had a recent change of heart and is now using Princeton for a control destination for I-95 (future I-195).  The reasoning for such is obvious; a destination near the northerly mid-section of I-95/295/future 195 loop was needed and out-of-towners are more familiar with Princeton than Ewing, the township that the highway actually goes through.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

roadman65

Quote from: PHLBOS on November 22, 2013, 09:20:10 AM


Apparently, PennDOT had a recent change of heart and is now using Princeton for a control destination for I-95 (future I-195).  The reasoning for such is obvious; a destination near the northerly mid-section of I-95/295/future 195 loop was needed and out-of-towners are more familiar with Princeton than Ewing, the township that the highway actually goes through.
In New Jersey, many of the mileage signs along I-295 Northbound use "Ewing" as a final control point.

Trenton will still be used on I-95 from Philadelphia.  Most likely at the new I-95/PT Interchange it will direct motorists via I-195 even though you have three NJ exits for Trenton that will be on I-95.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

akotchi

Some thoughts from a current resident of this part of PA, employed in that part of NJ.

Princeton is also signed for I-295 NB on the other side of the loop from the three directions in the I-195/I-295/NJ 29 interchange.    Not sure about the LGSs on the side roads off I-295, though, as I don't go that way much.
 
The New York destination for I-95 NB also developed on the LGSs on the side roads between Route 31 and U.S. 1, presumably after the Somerset Freeway was cancelled.  I noticed this when I started working in the area in 1987.  Camden was also included, presumably for I-295 SB, which this section was until about 1993.  I think some are still around, even though the U.S. 1 interchange now says New Brunswick for NB.  I pass by them every work day, but my commute is mindless enough that I don't take note much any more.  My curiosity is now piqued for a ride at lunch . . .

The mileage signs in NJ tend to show at the bottom the municipality at the end of the route, no matter how small or well known.  Ewing was probably a remnant of when I-295 was proposed all the way around the loop (taking over I-95).

The New York destination sign Roadman was referring to is no longer there -- it now says Princeton.  They all might have been replaced when the SB weave lane was constructed between Oxford Valley Road and I-95.  Business 1 is now signed for Levittown (and Penndel), while U.S. 1 was signed for Morrisville when the I-95 signing was redone, I think in the mid-1990s.

The PA 332 interchange was reconfigured again when the EB-to-NB loop was introduced and the NB off-ramp was pushed outward.  I don't remember, though, if that was part of the bridge redecking project or not.  I thought the bridge redecking occurred first because of the left turn issues on either side of the structure.

Thanks for letting me ramble a bit.  The seemingly random nature of the guide signing in this area shows its history.
Opinions here attributed to me are mine alone and do not reflect those of my employer or the agencies for which I am contracted to do work.

PHLBOS

Quote from: akotchi on November 22, 2013, 11:07:26 AMThe New York destination for I-95 NB also developed on the LGSs on the side roads between Route 31 and U.S. 1, presumably after the Somerset Freeway was cancelled.
Those were likely matching replacements for older LGS' that predated the cancellation of the Somerset Freeway. 

Quote from: akotchi on November 22, 2013, 11:07:26 AM
The mileage signs in NJ tend to show at the bottom the municipality at the end of the route, no matter how small or well known.  Ewing was probably a remnant of when I-295 was proposed all the way around the loop (taking over I-95).
I believe the mileage listing for Ewing may be in reference to where the I-95/Somerset Freeway interchange was originally planned to be; roughly mid-way of the loop between the Scudder Falls Bridge and just north of Bordentown (Exit 60).

Quote from: akotchi on November 22, 2013, 11:07:26 AMBusiness 1 is now signed for Levittown (and Penndel), while U.S. 1 was signed for Morrisville when the I-95 signing was redone, I think in the mid-1990s.
I believe those US 1 interchange BGS' along I-95 date back to the 1980s.  As a matter of fact, most of the BGS' from Exit 40 (PA 413) to the NJ state-line that weren't recently replaced date back to the mid-to-late 80s and were erected as part of a PennDOT sign-replacement project.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

roadman65

#57
Glad to hear that the "New York" destination has been changed going SB on US 1 and the weave adjusted. 

NE 2 did point out that from NJ 29 to US 1 various control cities for the NB I-95 ramps, and like you said the various projects do change things a bit which is why the conflicts along this stretch.  Even Bordentown for US 1 to I-295 SB was only added later as it did use Camden earlier at that location just like "New York" was used at US 1 NB from I-295 & I-95 in Lawrence before it was changed to "New Brunswick" when "TO I-95" shields were erected to direct motorists to the other segment via I-195 instead of US 1 to I-287 as it was for decades.   One thing I will give NJDOT credit, though, as usually they do not use control cities for interstate ramps from non freeway roads, but on I-95 they do manage do have them no matter how consistent or inconsistent they may be.

As far as replacement goes on I-95 in Buck's County, it was done after I moved to FL in 90 as I was hoping to see them before I made the move and did not.  It was in late 90 that it was changed as I had to wait for my first trip back to NJ in 91 to see it.  The poles went up for the Exit 40 gantries long before I moved in August 1990, and that was typical of even NJ where new sign supports for overhead signing would be put up and than several months later the rest of the gantry would be erected.  Just like traffic signals where you will see the poles go up and stand for several months as well before the wires or mast arms are erected to wait again for the next process of placing the signal heads.  Then many weeks go by before the electrician comes by to turn it on and only to flash mode for more weeks to get the motorists used to the new installation.  Signs seem to have the same pattern, although in Florida the signs do move faster, however signals take forever to install.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

PHLBOS

#58
Quote from: roadman65 on November 22, 2013, 11:40:12 AMAs far as replacement goes on I-95 in Buck's County, it was done after I moved to FL in 90 as I was hoping to see them before I made the move and did not.  It was in late 90 that it was changed as I had to wait for my first trip back to NJ in 91 to see it.  The poles went up for the Exit 40 gantries long before I moved in August 1990, and that was typical of even NJ where new sign supports for overhead signing would be put up and than several months later the rest of the gantry would be erected.  Just like traffic signals where you will see the poles go up and stand for several months as well before the wires or mast arms are erected to wait again for the next process of placing the signal heads.  Then many weeks go by before the electrician comes by to turn it on and only to flash mode for more weeks to get the motorists used to the new installation.  Signs seem to have the same pattern, although in Florida the signs do move faster, however signals take forever to install.
I moved to PA in mid-July of 1990 and the now-replaced diagrametric BGS' along I-95 North to PA 413 (current Exit 40/then Exit 26) were indeed erected back then.  A week or two prior to my move (just after the 4th of July); I was in the area apartment hunting and came back that way (heading north) and saw those first-hand those BGS' already erected.

If those BGS' were erected in 1990 (as opposed to earlier); it had to have been before July.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

ARMOURERERIC

Quote from: cpzilliacus on November 19, 2013, 12:50:08 PM
Philly.com: Roadblock: PA House votes down transportation spending measure

QuoteHARRISBURG - After months of debate, the state House failed to pass legislation Monday night that would have provided $2.3 billion to complete long-overdue repairs to the state's aging transportation infrastructure.

QuoteIn a stunning 103-98 vote that teetered between passage and defeat until the last moment of the roll call, lawmakers shot down an amendment to fix thousands of substandard bridges, repave hundreds of miles of crumbling roads, and pump hundreds of millions into modernizing mass transit systems across the state.

QuoteTo pay for the improvements, the bill would have lifted the cap on the oil-franchise tax - which could increase prices at the gas pump by roughly 27 cents a gallon. The measure also would have increased driver's-license and vehicle-registration fees beginning in 2015, and put a surcharge on speeders and others who violate traffic laws.

I am still looking for all the details, but apparently there was a "poison pill" provision in that it would have eliminated prevailing wage aspects for projects that were funded entirely with state money. 

roadman65

Quote from: PHLBOS on November 22, 2013, 01:30:34 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on November 22, 2013, 11:40:12 AMAs far as replacement goes on I-95 in Buck's County, it was done after I moved to FL in 90 as I was hoping to see them before I made the move and did not.  It was in late 90 that it was changed as I had to wait for my first trip back to NJ in 91 to see it.  The poles went up for the Exit 40 gantries long before I moved in August 1990, and that was typical of even NJ where new sign supports for overhead signing would be put up and than several months later the rest of the gantry would be erected.  Just like traffic signals where you will see the poles go up and stand for several months as well before the wires or mast arms are erected to wait again for the next process of placing the signal heads.  Then many weeks go by before the electrician comes by to turn it on and only to flash mode for more weeks to get the motorists used to the new installation.  Signs seem to have the same pattern, although in Florida the signs do move faster, however signals take forever to install.
I moved to PA in mid-July of 1990 and the now-replaced diagrametric BGS' along I-95 North to PA 413 (current Exit 40/then Exit 26) were indeed erected back then.  A week or two prior to my move (just after the 4th of July); I was in the area apartment hunting and came back that way (heading north) and saw those first-hand those BGS' already erected.

If those BGS' were erected in 1990 (as opposed to earlier); it had to have been before July.
Yes those diagramical signs for PA 413 were erected earlier, but the ones in Langhorne were added later.

In fact the overhead assemblies for PA 132 and the three exit mileage signs south of PA 413 were added at the same time as the diagramical signs were as well.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

ARMOURERERIC

Spoke to an old high school friend this evening, states that he just got a job with a firm increasing staff as to provide construction management and inspection services for the 22 to 79 section of the PTC Southern Beltway in Pittsburgh and that work is to start in June.  Interesting.

It was previously reported that the work would commence with the long bridge over 22 next year, but that plan was stopped due to funding issues.  His interview was 3 weeks ago so I cannot be certain how much was due to the new funding bill.

We shall see.

MASTERNC

Quote from: ARMOURERERIC on November 23, 2013, 04:17:44 AM
Spoke to an old high school friend this evening, states that he just got a job with a firm increasing staff as to provide construction management and inspection services for the 22 to 79 section of the PTC Southern Beltway in Pittsburgh and that work is to start in June.  Interesting.

It was previously reported that the work would commence with the long bridge over 22 next year, but that plan was stopped due to funding issues.  His interview was 3 weeks ago so I cannot be certain how much was due to the new funding bill.

We shall see.

From what I read, the Turnpike was allotted $86 million for the Southern Beltway.

http://www.delcotimes.com/general-news/20131122/delco-bridge-repairs-expansion-of-septa-stations-on-tap

ARMOURERERIC

According to the articles I have read thus far, the PTC is getting $86 Million PER YEAR, and i have read in a few articles now that the 22 to 79 link is supposedly now going out to bid in April, with construction starting in July.

I have not seen definite confirmation, but it looks like to $86 mil to the PTC is to return money taken via act 44.

Should I start a whole separate thread on projects that have been reported as a go sonce PA is really such a mess?

From what I have read:

Freewayization of US 322 from Milroy to Boalsburg

Reconstruction/Upgrade of Interchange Road and Kearsarge exit in Erie
Access road from I-90 to a new mutil-modal rail terminal in Erie, and connecting rail to a new east side Erie port facility

Central Susquehanna Valley Thruway, now I am confused on this one, I thought this was now to be covered 100% by ARC?

I-81 widen to 6 laned, Carlisle to PA 114

Several 6 lane widenings on I-83

Liberty and Birmingham Bridges in Pitts

Widening US 22 through Allentown

A PA 424 southern bypass expressway of Hazelton

The list should be somewhat lengthy considering the $$ involved.


CentralPAGal

#64
Quote from: ARMOURERERIC on November 23, 2013, 10:17:51 PM
I-81 widen to 6 laned, Carlisle to PA 114

Actually, its between 581 and 114. A continuous southbound lane will be added, but northbound will only be linking the 114 ramp with the 581 exit, not through the interchange.
http://cumberlink.com/news/local/penndot-plans-to-widen-portion-of-i--to-three/article_2dd279ac-daa7-11e2-8fb4-001a4bcf887a.html
Clinched:
I: 83, 97, 176, 180 (PA), 270 (MD), 283, 395 (MD), 470 (OH-WV), 471, 795 (MD)
Traveled:
I: 70, 71, 75, 76 (E), 78, 79, 80, 81, 86 (E), 95, 99, 270 (OH), 275 (KY-IN-OH), 376, 495 (MD-VA), 579, 595 (MD), 695 (MD)
US: 1, 9, 11, 13, 15, 22, 25, 30, 40, 42, 50, 113, 119, 127, 209, 220, 222, 301

froggie

#65
QuoteCentral Susquehanna Valley Thruway, now I am confused on this one, I thought this was now to be covered 100% by ARC?

It might be, but ARC no longer has its own dedicated stream of funding....it got rolled into each state's Surface Transportation Program (STP) allocation.

QuoteA PA 424 southern bypass expressway of Hazelton

424 already serves as a limited-access bypass of Hazelton (I was on it Tuesday).  I presume you're referring to a proposed 4-laning of it...it's currently 2 lanes.

CentralPAGal

Quote from: ARMOURERERIC on November 23, 2013, 10:17:51 PM

Central Susquehanna Valley Thruway, now I am confused on this one, I thought this was now to be covered 100% by ARC?

Supposedly, about $150 million of the cost will be covered by ARC money, which is somewhere between 25 and 30% of the project cost.
http://newsitem.com/news/csvt-will-produce-region-s-largest-span-1.1479675
Clinched:
I: 83, 97, 176, 180 (PA), 270 (MD), 283, 395 (MD), 470 (OH-WV), 471, 795 (MD)
Traveled:
I: 70, 71, 75, 76 (E), 78, 79, 80, 81, 86 (E), 95, 99, 270 (OH), 275 (KY-IN-OH), 376, 495 (MD-VA), 579, 595 (MD), 695 (MD)
US: 1, 9, 11, 13, 15, 22, 25, 30, 40, 42, 50, 113, 119, 127, 209, 220, 222, 301

ARMOURERERIC

Quote from: froggie on November 24, 2013, 08:49:54 AM
QuoteCentral Susquehanna Valley Thruway, now I am confused on this one, I thought this was now to be covered 100% by ARC?

It might be, but ARC no longer has its own dedicated stream of funding....it got rolled into each state's Surface Transportation Program (STP) allocation.

QuoteA PA 424 southern bypass expressway of Hazelton

424 already serves as a limited-access bypass of Hazelton (I was on it Tuesday).  I presume you're referring to a proposed 4-laning of it...it's currently 2 lanes.


The article I real stated that the money would go for an extension of 424 to I-81 and the requisite interchange.  Of course, newspapers are often incorrect.

I have finally seen a comprehensive project list, and I am surprised that:

The massive number of small bridges being rebuilt
The large quantity of what should have been routine maintinance
How expensive the 322 project is for the length and traffic volume (supposedly most expensive item on list at 3/4 of a Billion)

How much goes to Harrisburg, though that is a function of just how bad 83 is.  Conversely, hoe relatively little 70 west gets, it get a decent amount, but I would have expected more.

PHLBOS

Quote from: roadman65 on November 22, 2013, 10:42:59 PMYes those diagramical signs for PA 413 were erected earlier, but the ones in Langhorne were added later.
Fair enough, but the Langhorne exits are Exits 44 & 46A-B (old Exits 28 & 29A-B); not Exit 40, per your earlier reference.  That's why I chimed in with the correction in my previous post.

Quote from: roadman65 on November 22, 2013, 10:42:59 PMIn fact the overhead assemblies for PA 132 and the three exit mileage signs south of PA 413 were added at the same time as the diagramical signs were as well.
For the longest time, that BGS and the BGS' for PA 132 (Exit 37/old Exit 25); were the only newer style BGS' one would see along I-95 south from PA 413 (Bristol) to Center City.

For a very short period in the early 2000s (?); some newer BGS were erected along northbound I-95 for Exit 35/PA 63 (Woodhaven Road) that read EXIT 35 63 WEST TO 13 Bristol Pike Woodhaven Rd.  These BGS weren't even up for a year when they were replaced with the current diagramatic BGS' with the peeling green paint.  The BGS replacement coincided with the new Park-n-Ride facility at the adjacent SEPTA Cornwell Heights Station (for the (R7) Trenton line).
GPS does NOT equal GOD

roadman65

I was noticing that the Google Car has not yet made it on the new US 202 Parkway as of yet.  The road has been open several months, if not more than a year, already and only one cross road in Bucks County has the road shown open with a working traffic signal.

I also noticed that at New Britan Road near Doylestown, that there is a grade separation even though it is the northern terminus of the Parkway Recreation Trail.  The GSV shows the new underpass with a freeway style "US 202" sign attached to it and it looks like days of the road's (and trail's) opening as the Trail parking area is fresh asphalt with barricades blocking its entry like it was going to be opened for business real soon.

The PA 309 interchange, is shown on PA 309's view of also just ready to open with a Jersey Barrier across the connector ramp along with the Trail parking facility ready to open in addition.

Other intersections do not even show construction of the new road.  You would figure by now Google would be there already.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

PHLBOS

Quote from: roadman65 on December 31, 2013, 10:05:08 PM
I was noticing that the Google Car has not yet made it on the new US 202 Parkway as of yet.  The road has been open several months, if not more than a year, already and only one cross road in Bucks County has the road shown open with a working traffic signal.
The US 202 Parkway opened just over a year ago.  The primary attraction of last year's Doylestown meet was indeed riding along the new parkway.

I know Mapquest recognizes it when one seeks directions; the latest PennDOT, AAA & Rand McNally roadmaps and atlases now show the new parkway as well.

I'm not sure whether all GPS data and/or On-Star systems recognize the parkway as of yet.  A friend of mine recently purchased a left-over 2013 Chevy Equinox equipped w/the On-Star system.  When he seeked driving directions from West Chester to Plumstead Twp. (near Doylestown) via the system; it completely ignored the parkway even though using it would've been more direct route (the difference in travel time is in single-digit minutes at least according to Mapquest).

On-Star routed him to exit the PA Turnpike at Willow Grove (PA 611) where he would remain on for many miles where he could've exited off at Fort Washington (PA 309) and follow to US 202 North and pick up PA 611 North closer to Doylestown and saved some toll money.  Pre-202 parkway, picking up 611 at Willow Grove would've been my first choice as well; but this is one case where the new road is somewhat of a game-changer.  Had the parkway been a full-blown freeway as originally planned; the other way (309/202/611) would have a full advantage in both travel time & toll money.



GPS does NOT equal GOD

roadman65

What is amazing about this Parkway is the third time NIMBYism has let a worthless compromise take place.

Need I remind you this:

US 30 between Lancaster and Coatsville (the Amish stopped a much needed US 30 upgrade)

I-476 between SR 3 and I-95 where traffic counts warrant 6 lanes, and PennDOT had to settle  for the 4 lanes that someday will be overcapcitated.

Both cases where community opposition stopped needed roadways.  Here you have a two lane road (not even super two) with at grade intersections bypassing a similar roadway with the same conditions.  True it is direct and you do not have to zig zag along PA 611 any more, but at least four lanes they could have done it.  Freeway or arterial is better than this!
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

PHLBOS

Quote from: roadman65 on January 02, 2014, 06:11:28 PMNeed I remind you this:
FYI, if you're referring to me personally in your last post; this is old news to me.  You're preaching to the choir.

Quote from: roadman65 on January 02, 2014, 06:11:28 PM
US 30 between Lancaster and Coatsville (the Amish stopped a much needed US 30 upgrade)
I wasn't aware of that one.

Quote from: roadman65 on January 02, 2014, 06:11:28 PM
I-476 between SR 3 and I-95 where traffic counts warrant 6 lanes, and PennDOT had to settle for the 4 lanes that someday will be overcapcitated.
Someday?  The 20-year projected traffic counts for I-476 was already achieved/surpassed before the highway opening was even a year old.

Quote from: roadman65 on January 02, 2014, 06:11:28 PMHere you have a two lane road (not even super two) with at grade intersections bypassing a similar roadway with the same conditions.  True it is direct and you do not have to zig zag along PA 611 any more, but at least four lanes they could have done it.  Freeway or arterial is better than this!
I agree; however, in all fairness, the parkway will at least not have any residences nor businesses lined up along it thereby making the case for more traffic lights to be added (& increased delays).  The old US 202 corridor had tons of residential & business driveways and more traffic lights.

The least PennDOT could've done was make the parkway 4-lanes all the way through.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

Duke87

Even without driveways, the 202 parkway is still woefully unfit to handle the traffic volumes on it. Thanks, Rendell!
If you always take the same road, you will never see anything new.

Alps

Quote from: Duke87 on January 02, 2014, 10:04:58 PM
Even without driveways, the 202 parkway is still woefully unfit to handle the traffic volumes on it. Thanks, Rendell!
Is it getting backed up? I haven't heard of issues.



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