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Goethals Bridge Replacement

Started by roadman65, October 20, 2014, 10:17:10 AM

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Alps

Quote from: J Route Z on January 10, 2015, 12:38:42 PM
Any progress?
Construction doesn't happen much during winter. Check back next year when more bridge is happening.


lepidopteran

http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2016/10/travel_alert_goethals_bridge_t.html

It looks like the Goethals Bridge will be closed from 10 p.m. Friday, Oct. 7th, through 8 a.m. on Saturday, Oct. 8th.  The purpose of the closure is to replace the "Travis Spur" rail bridge.  This is that railroad bridge you pass under upon entering Staten Island, just before the toll booth.

One reason for replacing the railroad bridge is that the new Goethals Bridge will have 3 lanes in each direction (and shoulders to boot!) as opposed to the 2 lanes there now, so the bridge needs to be modified to match the width.

I was surprised that the railroad track in question was still in enough use to warrant a bridge replacement.  The relatively new freight spur only goes as far south as the Fresh Kills river; it was never used for passengers (barring possible excursion runs) or rapid transit.

It looks like sections of the new rail bridge will literally be moved into place.  The link has some good pictures of the construction.

Duke87

Quote from: lepidopteran on October 06, 2016, 08:38:15 PM
I was surprised that the railroad track in question was still in enough use to warrant a bridge replacement.  The relatively new freight spur only goes as far south as the Fresh Kills river; it was never used for passengers (barring possible excursion runs) or rapid transit.

There is a solid waste transfer station at the end of that rail spur, a significant amount of garbage leaves NYC via it. A paper mill along the spur also still uses it for shipping.

Meanwhile Arthur Kill Power station in the past used this spur for coal shipments but it runs on natural gas now.
If you always take the same road, you will never see anything new.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: Duke87 on October 06, 2016, 10:00:53 PM
There is a solid waste transfer station at the end of that rail spur, a significant amount of garbage leaves NYC via it. A paper mill along the spur also still uses it for shipping.

I believe at least some of that municipal refuse shipped out from NYC rolls through the District of Columbia on CSX rails.  Possible destinations include the large landfill and incinerator at Sealston, Virginia; another landfill in Charles City County, Virginia; and yet another big landfill in Waverly, Virginia. 
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

Rothman

I'd also wonder if the bridge would have to be raised a little.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

storm2k

Quote from: Rothman on October 07, 2016, 11:41:33 AM
I'd also wonder if the bridge would have to be raised a little.

They're saying a 138 ft clearance, that should be plenty high enough. Both the Goethals and Outerbridge were built with very high clearances, unlike the Bayonne Bridge. This is why they're raising the roadbed of the latter.

Rothman

Quote from: storm2k on October 07, 2016, 04:09:01 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 07, 2016, 11:41:33 AM
I'd also wonder if the bridge would have to be raised a little.

They're saying a 138 ft clearance, that should be plenty high enough. Both the Goethals and Outerbridge were built with very high clearances, unlike the Bayonne Bridge. This is why they're raising the roadbed of the latter.

I was referring to the rail bridge down the way that was mentioned.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

D-Dey65

Quote from: Duke87 on October 06, 2016, 10:00:53 PM
Quote from: lepidopteran on October 06, 2016, 08:38:15 PM
I was surprised that the railroad track in question was still in enough use to warrant a bridge replacement.  The relatively new freight spur only goes as far south as the Fresh Kills river; it was never used for passengers (barring possible excursion runs) or rapid transit.

There is a solid waste transfer station at the end of that rail spur, a significant amount of garbage leaves NYC via it. A paper mill along the spur also still uses it for shipping.

Meanwhile Arthur Kill Power station in the past used this spur for coal shipments but it runs on natural gas now.
That, and believe it or not, material for the replacement for the bridge used it.

That's known as the Travis Branch, BTW.

SteveG1988

Quote from: D-Dey65 on October 31, 2016, 02:10:45 AM
Quote from: Duke87 on October 06, 2016, 10:00:53 PM
Quote from: lepidopteran on October 06, 2016, 08:38:15 PM
I was surprised that the railroad track in question was still in enough use to warrant a bridge replacement.  The relatively new freight spur only goes as far south as the Fresh Kills river; it was never used for passengers (barring possible excursion runs) or rapid transit.

There is a solid waste transfer station at the end of that rail spur, a significant amount of garbage leaves NYC via it. A paper mill along the spur also still uses it for shipping.

Meanwhile Arthur Kill Power station in the past used this spur for coal shipments but it runs on natural gas now.
That, and believe it or not, material for the replacement for the bridge used it.

That's known as the Travis Branch, BTW.

That is kind of neat, that the rail line there is being used for replacement bridge components. May explain why they have to fix the bridge, despite the road under it being moved in the future. They need it to handle extreme weights above and beyond the normal use it was getting, on a more frequent basis.
Roads Clinched

I55,I82,I84(E&W)I88(W),I87(N),I81,I64,I74(W),I72,I57,I24,I65,I59,I12,I71,I77,I76(E&W),I70,I79,I85,I86(W),I27,I16,I97,I96,I43,I41,

D-Dey65

Quote from: SteveG1988 on October 31, 2016, 01:10:53 PM
That is kind of neat, that the rail line there is being used for replacement bridge components. May explain why they have to fix the bridge, despite the road under it being moved in the future. They need it to handle extreme weights above and beyond the normal use it was getting, on a more frequent basis.
Ever see the "Images of Rail: Staten Island Rapid Transit" book, by Marc Pitanza? You'll find it there.


lepidopteran

It looks like the new span of the Goethals Bridge is ready!

The original cantilever span that opened in 1928 will be closing for good tonight (Jun 9) at 10 p.m. The new span will open to EB traffic sometime tomorrow, and to WB traffic on Sunday.

http://www.silive.com/news/2017/06/one_of_two_new_goethals_spans.html

For some perspective on how vehicles have changed in this bridge's lifetime, the bridge first opened a year after the Model-T Ford went out of production.

1995hoo

Good riddance to the old bridge!
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

roadman65

Its closed WB all of today.  The transfer is happening in stages.  First today the EB traffic and tomorrow the WB side.

Plus only one of the new bridges is actually built.  The future WB span is due for completion in 2018.

Right now as we speak you must use the Outerbridge Crossing or the Bayonne Bridge to get between the two states in this area.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

Roadrunner75

NJ.com's article proclaimed "Goodbye Narrow Lanes!" - well not quite yet, since they are putting both directions on the first of the two bridges for what will still be 4 lanes for some time until 2018 when the second span opens.  But at any rate, still a big improvement and I'll be trying it out sometime soon.  I drive under the NJ approaches at least all the time on the Turnpike, so I've gotten to watch its progress.  Even neater is the Bayonne Bridge reconstruction - especially before the new higher deck opened and you could still drive on half of the original roadway and watch them work above you. 

Beltway

Quote from: Roadrunner75 on June 11, 2017, 11:55:13 AM
NJ.com's article proclaimed "Goodbye Narrow Lanes!" - well not quite yet, since they are putting both directions on the first of the two bridges for what will still be 4 lanes for some time until 2018 when the second span opens.  But at any rate, still a big improvement and I'll be trying it out sometime soon.  I drive under the NJ approaches at least all the time on the Turnpike, so I've gotten to watch its progress.  Even neater is the Bayonne Bridge reconstruction - especially before the new higher deck opened and you could still drive on half of the original roadway and watch them work above you. 

Looks like the narrow lanes will be a thing of the past, there is enough space on the first new bridge for four 12-foot-wide lanes and a temporary concrete median barrier.

Pre-existing bridge -- Width of roadway: 42 feet
http://www.panynj.gov/bridges-tunnels/goethals-bridge-facts-info.html

New bridges, each roadway is 53 feet wide --
The replacement bridge is being constructed directly south of the old bridge and, when complete, will provide:
-- Three 12-foot-wide lanes in each direction replacing the current two narrow 10-foot-wide lanes
-- A 12-foot-wide outer shoulder and a 5-foot-wide inner shoulder in each direction
http://www.panynj.gov/bridges-tunnels/goethals-bridge-replacement-about.html
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

Roadrunner75

Quote from: Beltway on June 11, 2017, 02:55:12 PM
Quote from: Roadrunner75 on June 11, 2017, 11:55:13 AM
NJ.com's article proclaimed "Goodbye Narrow Lanes!" - well not quite yet, since they are putting both directions on the first of the two bridges for what will still be 4 lanes for some time until 2018 when the second span opens.  But at any rate, still a big improvement and I'll be trying it out sometime soon.  I drive under the NJ approaches at least all the time on the Turnpike, so I've gotten to watch its progress.  Even neater is the Bayonne Bridge reconstruction - especially before the new higher deck opened and you could still drive on half of the original roadway and watch them work above you. 

Looks like the narrow lanes will be a thing of the past, there is enough space on the first new bridge for four 12-foot-wide lanes and a temporary concrete median barrier.

Pre-existing bridge -- Width of roadway: 42 feet
http://www.panynj.gov/bridges-tunnels/goethals-bridge-facts-info.html

New bridges, each roadway is 53 feet wide --
The replacement bridge is being constructed directly south of the old bridge and, when complete, will provide:
-- Three 12-foot-wide lanes in each direction replacing the current two narrow 10-foot-wide lanes
-- A 12-foot-wide outer shoulder and a 5-foot-wide inner shoulder in each direction
http://www.panynj.gov/bridges-tunnels/goethals-bridge-replacement-about.html
I think they should have planned for at least 4 travel lanes in each direction...they will fill up fast.

Beltway

Quote from: Roadrunner75 on June 11, 2017, 03:34:26 PM
Quote from: Beltway on June 11, 2017, 02:55:12 PM
Pre-existing bridge -- Width of roadway: 42 feet
http://www.panynj.gov/bridges-tunnels/goethals-bridge-facts-info.html

New bridges, each roadway is 53 feet wide --
The replacement bridge is being constructed directly south of the old bridge and, when complete, will provide:
-- Three 12-foot-wide lanes in each direction replacing the current two narrow 10-foot-wide lanes
-- A 12-foot-wide outer shoulder and a 5-foot-wide inner shoulder in each direction
http://www.panynj.gov/bridges-tunnels/goethals-bridge-replacement-about.html

I think they should have planned for at least 4 travel lanes in each direction...they will fill up fast.

Next replace the Outerbridge Crossing, an almost identical design to the old Goethals Bridge, with a design similar to the new Goethals Bridge.  That would provide a joint major increase in capacity between New Jersey and Staten Island.
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

cl94

Quote from: Beltway on June 11, 2017, 09:22:02 PM
Quote from: Roadrunner75 on June 11, 2017, 03:34:26 PM
Quote from: Beltway on June 11, 2017, 02:55:12 PM
Pre-existing bridge -- Width of roadway: 42 feet
http://www.panynj.gov/bridges-tunnels/goethals-bridge-facts-info.html

New bridges, each roadway is 53 feet wide --
The replacement bridge is being constructed directly south of the old bridge and, when complete, will provide:
-- Three 12-foot-wide lanes in each direction replacing the current two narrow 10-foot-wide lanes
-- A 12-foot-wide outer shoulder and a 5-foot-wide inner shoulder in each direction
http://www.panynj.gov/bridges-tunnels/goethals-bridge-replacement-about.html

I think they should have planned for at least 4 travel lanes in each direction...they will fill up fast.

Next replace the Outerbridge Crossing, an almost identical design to the old Goethals Bridge, with a design similar to the new Goethals Bridge.  That would provide a joint major increase in capacity between New Jersey and Staten Island.

The Port Authority also doesn't want to dump traffic on the island only for the through traffic to consolidate into 6 lanes to cross into Brooklyn. Ideally, you want to balance it so there aren't backups getting off of the island.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

Roadgeek Adam

The Outerbridge Crossing should be at least twinned. I mean, I'm not ready to demolish the OBX. Whatever new bridge needs bike lanes.
Adam Seth Moss
M.A. History, Western Illinois University 2015-17
B.A. History, Montclair State University 2013-15
A.A. History & Education - Middlesex (County) College 2009-13

jeffandnicole

Quote from: Roadrunner75 on June 11, 2017, 03:34:26 PM
Quote from: Beltway on June 11, 2017, 02:55:12 PM
Quote from: Roadrunner75 on June 11, 2017, 11:55:13 AM
NJ.com's article proclaimed "Goodbye Narrow Lanes!" - well not quite yet, since they are putting both directions on the first of the two bridges for what will still be 4 lanes for some time until 2018 when the second span opens.  But at any rate, still a big improvement and I'll be trying it out sometime soon.  I drive under the NJ approaches at least all the time on the Turnpike, so I've gotten to watch its progress.  Even neater is the Bayonne Bridge reconstruction - especially before the new higher deck opened and you could still drive on half of the original roadway and watch them work above you. 

Looks like the narrow lanes will be a thing of the past, there is enough space on the first new bridge for four 12-foot-wide lanes and a temporary concrete median barrier.

Pre-existing bridge -- Width of roadway: 42 feet
http://www.panynj.gov/bridges-tunnels/goethals-bridge-facts-info.html

New bridges, each roadway is 53 feet wide --
The replacement bridge is being constructed directly south of the old bridge and, when complete, will provide:
-- Three 12-foot-wide lanes in each direction replacing the current two narrow 10-foot-wide lanes
-- A 12-foot-wide outer shoulder and a 5-foot-wide inner shoulder in each direction
http://www.panynj.gov/bridges-tunnels/goethals-bridge-replacement-about.html
I think they should have planned for at least 4 travel lanes in each direction...they will fill up fast.

There's probably a huge land acquisition issue as well.  Sure, it's only 12 feet per side additional they needed, but this isn't wide open Iowa.  There are numerous warehouses and other buildings on the ground next to the bridge, so trying to acquire the additional land needed would potentially cost the PANYNJ hundreds of thousands or millions...per parcel of land! 

And in this area of the country, building a new highway/bridge and expecting free-flow traffic isn't going to be possible.  They just build to keep existing infrastructure from becoming a massive, fatal failure.

Since the bridge does have a full shoulder, they could probably convert it to a travel lane in the future if absolutely needed.  But they would also have to weigh consideration of what's more important - a travel lane, or an lane for emergency equipment.

Quote from: Roadgeek Adam on June 11, 2017, 10:22:13 PM
The Outerbridge Crossing should be at least twinned. I mean, I'm not ready to demolish the OBX. Whatever new bridge needs bike lanes.

The new Goethals Bridge will have a ped/bicycle lane when fully completed.

Roadgeek Adam

There would probably be much higher bicycle lane traffic between Tottenville and Perth Amboy. Especially considering you can use it as a connection from the SIR to NJ Transit through a bike ride, meaning you could take a train to the Jersey Shore.
Adam Seth Moss
M.A. History, Western Illinois University 2015-17
B.A. History, Montclair State University 2013-15
A.A. History & Education - Middlesex (County) College 2009-13

Roadrunner75

Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 12, 2017, 06:08:48 AM
Quote from: Roadrunner75 on June 11, 2017, 03:34:26 PM
I think they should have planned for at least 4 travel lanes in each direction...they will fill up fast.

There's probably a huge land acquisition issue as well.  Sure, it's only 12 feet per side additional they needed, but this isn't wide open Iowa.  There are numerous warehouses and other buildings on the ground next to the bridge, so trying to acquire the additional land needed would potentially cost the PANYNJ hundreds of thousands or millions...per parcel of land! 

And in this area of the country, building a new highway/bridge and expecting free-flow traffic isn't going to be possible.  They just build to keep existing infrastructure from becoming a massive, fatal failure.

Since the bridge does have a full shoulder, they could probably convert it to a travel lane in the future if absolutely needed.  But they would also have to weigh consideration of what's more important - a travel lane, or an lane for emergency equipment.
Understood, but we have to live with these bridges for the next 100 years.  Best to spend the extra bucks now and do some better future proofing this time around.  The extra capacity is more than worth the money.

Stephane Dumas


roadman65

I See Forest Avenue is now being mentioned on the bridge itself.  The PANYNJ is helping out by signing exits not in their jurisdiction.

Anyway, forgot about the single lane I-278 through the tangle with NJ 439 and the NJ Turnpike.

Good post!
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

NJRoadfan

Looks like more NJTPA VMS gantry setups landed up on the new bridge. The structure's design is nearly identical.



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