Any Way to Avoid Congestion From Western NY thru Albany to VT

[flyfishingjon]

Thanks, Jim.   I'll be going through from Oneonta east on a Sunday at around 3 p.m.  My return trip to Oneonta coming from VT east will be on a Tuesday or Wednesday at around noon.. I'm hoping that those days/times are lower in traffic.

[flyfishingjon]

Thanks to Josh as well!  Hopefully I'll talk my wife into driving while I navigate ( and enjoy the scenery)!

[cl94]

I'd take 2 EB to avoid the nonsense on the upgrade no matter what time of day unless you're specifically planning to stop for food east of Troy, but you should be fine taking 7 back. Ride the right lane in Troy so you don't get stuck behind people making left turns. I will warn you that the Massachusetts side has a painfully low speed limit that varies between 25 and 40 and it is enforced. If you want a good picture, there's a pull-out at the top of the pass.

And no problem. I have to deal with the Troy traffic every day as I live here. You learn many ways to get around it and all are much better than spending half an hour sitting on that hill. Part of the fun of living on the side of a valley.

[8.Lug]

If you want to avoid traffic on road trips, you need to stop driving during the day.

[flyfishingjon]

Thanks again, cl94, I will indeed take your suggestions.  I hope to drive straight through without any stops.

[flyfishingjon]

cl94, if I opt to take Tamarac Road off of 287 EB to rt. 7, it looks like that road, though tertiary, does not have any stop and go sections through towns, correct?

[cl94]

cl94, if I opt to take Tamarac Road off of 287 EB to rt. 7, it looks like that road, though tertiary, does not have any stop and go sections through towns, correct?

No. There's a 35 section at the west end and a short 40 section, but the rest is 45 or higher.

[vdeane]

If you want to avoid traffic on road trips, you need to stop driving during the day.

Albany rush hour traffic is extreme.  It was stop and go all the way from I-90 beyond the Twin Bridges yesterday when I drove home from work.  Took me 20 minutes longer to get home than it would have in winter, and my commute is only 7 miles each way.  This is because the Northway is a funnel from tourists coming from Boston, New York City, and Syracuse, and because of a large amount of growth in Clifton Park in the last couple decades (similar growth in Rotterdam is fueling the Thruway backups).

[cl94]

If you want to avoid traffic on road trips, you need to stop driving during the day.

Albany rush hour traffic is extreme.  It was stop and go all the way from I-90 beyond the Twin Bridges yesterday when I drove home from work.  Took me 20 minutes longer to get home than it would have in winter, and my commute is only 7 miles each way.  This is because the Northway is a funnel from tourists coming from Boston, New York City, and Syracuse, and because of a large amount of growth in Clifton Park in the last couple decades (similar growth in Rotterdam is fueling the Thruway backups).

Yesterday had a bunch of accidents. There was a multi-car accident at Exit 8A that I drove past at 6 heading SB. Heck, NB was bad at 3 and backed up along 7 to past the pull-out (usually doesn't get bad until 4), so I bailed off of 7 at US 9 and noticed on Waze that there was a major accident at the bridge.

[vdeane]

The tourists always seen to be getting into accidents; our accident rate is much lower in winter (outside of storms).  The one on the bridge was SB, so it shouldn't have been affecting NB in theory, but we all know how inconsiderate people are about driving by accidents.  Even minor fender benders cause stop and go (plus the idiots don't know that it's slow down OR move over, not slow down AND move over).

[cl94]

The tourists always seen to be getting into accidents; our accident rate is much lower in winter (outside of storms).  The one on the bridge was SB, so it shouldn't have been affecting NB in theory, but we all know how inconsiderate people are about driving by accidents.  Even minor fender benders cause stop and go (plus the idiots don't know that it's slow down OR move over, not slow down AND move over).

Whatever it was, I got on at Exit 8 and there was no traffic whatsoever.

[kalvado]

The tourists always seen to be getting into accidents; our accident rate is much lower in winter (outside of storms).  The one on the bridge was SB, so it shouldn't have been affecting NB in theory, but we all know how inconsiderate people are about driving by accidents.  Even minor fender benders cause stop and go (plus the idiots don't know that it's slow down OR move over, not slow down AND move over).

NYS law is move over - or slow down and move over anyway.

[vdeane]

They should change it to match the nationwide standard then.  The idea of allowing people to slow down instead is to give people a way through if there isn't an opportunity to move over.  That would prevent the jams for even minor traffic stops.  We seriously need a "drivers first" initiative for law enforcement.

Move over laws are nothing more than yet another example of dumbing down the roads because people can't drive.

[cl94]

They should change it to match the nationwide standard then.  The idea of allowing people to slow down instead is to give people a way through if there isn't an opportunity to move over.  That would prevent the jams for even minor traffic stops.  We seriously need a "drivers first" initiative for law enforcement.

Move over laws are nothing more than yet another example of dumbing down the roads because people can't drive.

It's "or". I checked.

[jeffandnicole]

Here's the law in full. In fact, It is pretty specific that motor vehicle operators must exercise due care when approaching a cop or other emergency vehicle, and in multilane roads one should move over. I don't see anything specifically about slowing down.  Exercising due care may include slowing down, but it also allows for moving over to accomplish meeting the requirements of the law.

Thus, there's no moving over AND slowing down, but rather moving over and/or doing what else is necessary to exercise due care.

    §  1144-a. Operation of vehicles when approaching a parked, stopped or
  standing authorized emergency  vehicle  or  hazard  vehicle.  (a)  Every
  operator  of  a motor vehicle shall exercise due care to avoid colliding
  with an  authorized  emergency  vehicle  which  is  parked,  stopped  or
  standing  on  the  shoulder  or  any  portion  of  such highway and such
  authorized  emergency  vehicle  is  displaying  one  or  more   red   or
  combination red and white lights pursuant to the provisions of paragraph
  two  of  subdivision  forty-one of section three hundred seventy-five of
  this chapter or is displaying one or more blue, combination blue and red
  or combination blue, red and white lights pursuant to the provisions  of
  subparagraph  b  of  paragraph  four of subdivision forty-one of section
  three hundred seventy-five of  this  chapter.  For  operators  of  motor
  vehicles  on parkways or controlled access highways, such due care shall
  include, but not be limited to, moving from a lane which contains or  is
  immediately  adjacent  to  the  shoulder where such authorized emergency
  vehicle displaying one or more red, blue or white or any combination  of
  red  and white lights or blue or combination blue and red or combination
  blue, red and white lights pursuant to the provisions of  paragraph  two
  or  subparagraph  b  of  paragraph  four,  as  applicable of subdivision
  forty-one of section three  hundred  seventy-five  of  this  chapter  is
  parked, stopped or standing to another lane, provided that such movement
  otherwise  complies with the requirements of this chapter including, but
  not limited to, the provisions of sections eleven hundred  ten  of  this
  title and eleven hundred twenty-eight of this title.
    (b) Every operator of a motor vehicle shall exercise due care to avoid
  colliding  with a hazard vehicle which is parked, stopped or standing on
  the shoulder or on any portion of such highway and such  hazard  vehicle
  is  displaying  one  or  more amber lights pursuant to the provisions of
  paragraph three  of  subdivision  forty-one  of  section  three  hundred
  seventy-five  of  this  chapter.  For  operators  of  motor  vehicles on
  parkways or controlled access highways, such due care shall include, but
  not be limited to, moving from a lane which contains or  is  immediately
  adjacent  to  the  shoulder  where such hazard vehicle displaying one or
  more amber lights pursuant to  the  provisions  of  paragraph  three  of
  subdivision  forty-one  of  section  three  hundred seventy-five of this
  chapter is parked, stopped or standing to another  lane,  provided  that
  such  movement  otherwise complies with the requirements of this chapter
  including, but not limited to, the provisions of sections eleven hundred
  ten and eleven hundred twenty-eight of this title.

[kalvado]

They should change it to match the nationwide standard then.  The idea of allowing people to slow down instead is to give people a way through if there isn't an opportunity to move over.  That would prevent the jams for even minor traffic stops.  We seriously need a "drivers first" initiative for law enforcement.

Move over laws are nothing more than yet another example of dumbing down the roads because people can't drive.

It's "or". I checked.

Is there a history of the V&T law available? I remember completely different phrasing than the current version. And even current version is written in an interesting way...

[cl94]

They should change it to match the nationwide standard then.  The idea of allowing people to slow down instead is to give people a way through if there isn't an opportunity to move over.  That would prevent the jams for even minor traffic stops.  We seriously need a "drivers first" initiative for law enforcement.

Move over laws are nothing more than yet another example of dumbing down the roads because people can't drive.

It's "or". I checked.

Is there a history of the V&T law available? I remember completely different phrasing than the current version. And even current version is written in an interesting way...

Probably, but it wouldn't be called a "move over" law if that part was optional.

[kalvado]

They should change it to match the nationwide standard then.  The idea of allowing people to slow down instead is to give people a way through if there isn't an opportunity to move over.  That would prevent the jams for even minor traffic stops.  We seriously need a "drivers first" initiative for law enforcement.

Move over laws are nothing more than yet another example of dumbing down the roads because people can't drive.

It's "or". I checked.

Is there a history of the V&T law available? I remember completely different phrasing than the current version. And even current version is written in an interesting way...

Probably, but it wouldn't be called a "move over" law if that part was optional.

Don't look for logic when it comes to things like NYS legislature.

The New York "move over"  law was named for Onondaga County Sheriff Deputy Glenn Searles and State Trooper Robert Ambrose, who both lost their lives responding to roadside emergencies.

One of those accidents is a direct result of move over attempt:

Trooper Ambrose was writing an accident report for a minor accident when the driver of a vehicle attempted to switch lanes, struck another vehicle, and then veered onto the shoulder and struck the rear of Trooper Ambrose's Ford Crown Victoria.

(+icy road)
The other is drunk driving accident. None of those are actually addressed by the law..

[vdeane]

The "move over" branding wasn't invented by the NYS legislature, but by the police unions.  Of course, the law is simplified when given to the press.  Incidentally, NY was one of the last states to get a move over law.  The incidents were probably just an excuse to shove through what they wanted anyways.
http://www.moveoveramerica.com/

[cl94]

It's worth noting that every "state law" sign for the law says "move over for stopped emergency vehicle", saying nothing about the need to slow down.

[mrsman]

I was recently in the Lake George area and I do have to say that the transition from I-87 northway to the Thruway almost caught me off-guard.  First, it's only one lane to get you onto I-90 or I-87 south.  It's a sharp turn and then you hit the tollbooths.

It would be nice if the highway department could create direct ramps from the Northway to the Thruway southbound (and from the Thruway to the Northway northbound) without having to use I-90.  If there is no room for tollbooths, they could create E-Z Pass only ramps.

[cl94]

I was recently in the Lake George area and I do have to say that the transition from I-87 northway to the Thruway almost caught me off-guard.  First, it's only one lane to get you onto I-90 or I-87 south.  It's a sharp turn and then you hit the tollbooths.

It would be nice if the highway department could create direct ramps from the Northway to the Thruway southbound (and from the Thruway to the Northway northbound) without having to use I-90.  If there is no room for tollbooths, they could create E-Z Pass only ramps.

There's a reason why somebody posts that idea or a variation on the fictional thread at least once a month. People unfamiliar with the area quite often move over 3-4 lanes south of Exit 2 to continue on I-87. It is not uncommon for that ramp to back up to Exit 4, either. It is rumored that NYSTA has an E-ZPass ramp in long-term plans, but that would be a mess if they don't channelize things to prevent people from Free 90 from using the ramp.

[Rothman]

The dissatisfaction with that intersection is quite frequent amongst employees at NYSDOT.

[cl94]

One could make a convincing argument that it is the worst system interchange in Upstate New York. What's sad is that the original interchange was much worse, but the population surge the area has seen over the past 15 years certainly hasn't helped matters. Traffic is much worse now than it was when I was little and that was before most of the tech companies set up shop in Malta, practically in the bedroom communities.

[kalvado]

The dissatisfaction with that intersection is quite frequent amongst employees at NYSDOT.

As far as I know, one of big things is a design flaw of I-87 south ramp towards Thruway. Ramp curvature is too high for the speed, so a clot is deliberately created as a way to slow down traffic to avoid accidents. Any talk about redesigning that ramp to full 2-lane 55 MPH operation? As far as I understand, should be doable with reasonable costs..