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Amazon HQ2

Started by Bruce, September 07, 2017, 05:45:59 PM

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kalvado

Quote from: formulanone on March 13, 2018, 07:19:32 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 08, 2018, 02:37:12 AM
There was a recent spat between the Georgia legislature and Delta, in which Delta cancelled a discount program against the Lieutenant Governor's wishes, leading to a tax cut that Delta would benefit from being stripped out of a tax bill. I've seen some speculation this might put a damper on Atlanta's chances for HQ2, as Amazon may be leery of locating in a state that's willing to try to directly influence the company's policies in such a way.

Can someone eloquently explain how a government entity is allowed to get involved in the opinions of a private entity, especially after approving the tax break? If you detest Big Government and Freedoms, you go along with honoring an agreement and performing your jobs, regardless of the alignment of your beliefs. Delta Air Lines is a private company, and they're entitled to their beliefs without the fear of government repercussions. The National Rife Association is not a government entity and neither is DL.

As one of their prime customers (by golly, I can actually say that, though not about much of anything else), they're probably not going to be hurt very much; they've quietly gone to bat on a few social issues before, but that's what big companies do. To a much lesser degree, other airlines would be somewhat affected, though their combined presence is a mere quarter of Delta's consumption in Georgia. The irony that essentially no two individuals pay the same amount for airfare unless it's the same itinerary at the same booking time - price discrimination yet market demand - isn't lost on me, either. Airlines have their lobbying groups, too.

Of course, the whole matter about why they're getting a fuel tax break, of which Delta gets the biggest share from buying so much of it, is quite up for debate...'prolly jobs jobs jobs.

First of all, was there an agreement or was there a law which was lobbied by a certain company not to be named? That law provided what is known as "government subsidy" if happening outside of US, as three big US airlines keep telling everyone. Now playing field is leveled. Great!
And this is not a repercussion - no new unfair policies are implemented. Airlines would pay what everyone else pays.

Dirty and disproportional overall? Sure. Uncommon? Nope. Look up NY and CA travel bans for example. Or NY state boycott on companies with certain views on Israel policies, net neutrality, or a bunch of other issues.



abefroman329

Quote from: formulanone on March 13, 2018, 07:19:32 PM
Can someone eloquently explain how a government entity is allowed to get involved in the opinions of a private entity, especially after approving the tax break? If you detest Big Government and Freedoms, you go along with honoring an agreement and performing your jobs, regardless of the alignment of your beliefs. Delta Air Lines is a private company, and they're entitled to their beliefs without the fear of government repercussions. The National Rife Association is not a government entity and neither is DL.

Pfft.  Next you'll be telling me people who are all about states' rights support a federal gay marriage ban.

triplemultiplex

Quote from: abefroman329 on March 12, 2018, 10:28:59 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on March 11, 2018, 10:11:09 AM
Quote from: jwolfer on March 10, 2018, 06:43:59 PM
Short sighted to have bills like this.. have your religious beliefs but no need to force the world to follow your beliefs.  It would be like Utah outlawing coffee and tea because of LDS rules against caffeine or 'hot drinks'

Or alcohol.  Oh wait....

AFAIK there are far less restrictions on consumption of alcohol in bars in Utah than there were 25 years ago.  Brewpubs abound, and none require you to become a member in order to drink there.

Yeah, they fixed it.  Mostly.
"That's just like... your opinion, man."

bing101


Road Hog

I'm just a little glad that DFW appears out of the running. While I do enjoy the value of my house skyrocketing, traffic is a mess just with the companies here now.

Bruce

Yeah, Amazon is totally going to relocate in a far-flung suburb next to its data centers. And will telegraph it by increasing its presence (hint: it's been doing that in nearly every city that already has Amazon offices...Boston just got 2,000 new positions this past week). I'm extremely skeptical.

jeffandnicole

I think these stories have been written for just about every location people have proposed.  And most of them have been wrong.

jakeroot

If it is DC, I would be stoked to have correctly predicted the location. I still think it makes more sense than a lot of their other data hubs.

Quote from: jakeroot on September 08, 2017, 03:58:02 AM
Maybe the DC area? DC itself is limited due to building height restrictions, but the surrounding municipalities could easily fit the requirements.

AlexandriaVA

Quote from: jakeroot on April 01, 2018, 09:32:50 PM
If it is DC, I would be stoked to have correctly predicted the location. I still think it makes more sense than a lot of their other data hubs.

Quote from: jakeroot on September 08, 2017, 03:58:02 AM
Maybe the DC area? DC itself is limited due to building height restrictions, but the surrounding municipalities could easily fit the requirements.

Even with a height limit, there's plenty of current and potential office capacity in DC proper.

triplemultiplex

More convenient to lobby Congress, as I'm sure others have pointed out.
Amazon is getting big enough to tip over into evil, so that is probably a factor for them in deciding where to go.
"That's just like... your opinion, man."

jakeroot

Quote from: AlexandriaVA on April 02, 2018, 01:29:34 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on April 01, 2018, 09:32:50 PM
If it is DC, I would be stoked to have correctly predicted the location. I still think it makes more sense than a lot of their other data hubs.

Quote from: jakeroot on September 08, 2017, 03:58:02 AM
Maybe the DC area? DC itself is limited due to building height restrictions, but the surrounding municipalities could easily fit the requirements.

Even with a height limit, there's plenty of current and potential office capacity in DC proper.

Based on what they're building in Seattle, I wouldn't bet on them limiting themselves when they can just as easily locate across the river from DC and not have to worry about limits. I'm sure Amazon is more interested in going up than out.

Quote from: triplemultiplex on April 02, 2018, 02:12:26 PM
Amazon is getting big enough to tip over into evil, so that is probably a factor for them in deciding where to go.

Evil enough that I'm sure they could convince DC to eliminate their building height limits just for them!

abefroman329

Quote from: jakeroot on April 03, 2018, 01:09:53 AMEvil enough that I'm sure they could convince DC to eliminate their building height limits just for them!

Building height limits in DC is unbelievably controversial.  So, so controversial.  Not even Amazon could eliminate them.

AlexandriaVA

Quote from: abefroman329 on April 03, 2018, 09:47:08 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on April 03, 2018, 01:09:53 AMEvil enough that I'm sure they could convince DC to eliminate their building height limits just for them!

Building height limits in DC is unbelievably controversial.  So, so controversial.  Not even Amazon could eliminate them.

Not really...there's little local political mobilization to get rid of them. Even when Congress opened up the prospect recently, DC's unique planning commission passed on pushing the issue:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/major-dc-building-height-changes-are-rejected-by-planning-commission/2013/11/19/6eedea84-5176-11e3-9e2c-e1d01116fd98_story.html?utm_term=.a9d7e9d5cf97

QuoteA planning body charged with examining changes to the federal law restricting building heights in the District declined to endorse major changes Tuesday, voting to reject a recommendation to potentially allow higher structures in outlying parts of the city.



bing101


kkt

Amazon also may want good schools for its employees with kids to attend, and being closer to the major airport.

davewiecking

^Bingo; Amazon has reportedly asked for separate briefing sessions on quality of local education, including ACT/SAT scores in area high schools. https://www.bizjournals.com/washington/news/2018/04/02/in-hq2-site-visits-amazon-focuses-on-education.html

MisterSG1

Quote from: triplemultiplex on April 02, 2018, 02:12:26 PM
More convenient to lobby Congress, as I'm sure others have pointed out.
Amazon is getting big enough to tip over into evil, so that is probably a factor for them in deciding where to go.

Finally someone else agrees with me on Amazon, I NEVER buy anything from them. Perhaps if everyone wasn't so lazy and quit buying from Amazon, then they'd be finished, but I can't see that happening.

vdeane

I stopped getting anything other than mp3s and Kindle books from Amazon when they decided to pull that stunt where certain items became Prime-only.  Making something I want to buy Prime-only isn't a good way to get me to (re)join Prime, but it is a good way to make me buy that item at Target or Barnes and Noble instead.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

MisterSG1

Quote from: vdeane on April 03, 2018, 08:38:19 PM
I stopped getting anything other than mp3s and Kindle books from Amazon when they decided to pull that stunt where certain items became Prime-only.  Making something I want to buy Prime-only isn't a good way to get me to (re)join Prime, but it is a good way to make me buy that item at Target or Barnes and Noble instead.

Barnes & Noble is still around?

Sigh, it makes me sad, the epic flagship store locations of Chapters (very similar store to B&N up here, Starbucks in every location) in downtown Toronto have all been shuttered, victims of Amazon of course.


One thing Amazon can never replicate, is the simple concept of browsing a store like this.


kkt

Yes, there's still Barnes and Nobles around.  There are two that I can think of just in Seattle, ground zero for Amazon.

Bruce

Amazon is a godsend to someone looking to replace phone parts or accessories for a model that is years out of date. Otherwise, I'd be adding yet another phone to the landfills or e-cycle dumps.

It's also really nice having a decent customer support system when the nameless Chinese manufacturer for these products doesn't deliver or delivers a faulty product.

jakeroot

Quote from: MisterSG1 on April 03, 2018, 08:46:37 PM
victims of Amazon of course.

Really? Amazon is 100% to blame for Chapter's failures in Downtown Toronto? The Indigo in downtown Vancouver is doing just fine. I think it's a Toronto issue.

In your defence, Amazon's original venture was books, so if there was a part of the market most dominated by Amazon, this is certainly it. But physical bookstores still have their place. And Amazon knows this, as they operate 15 brick-and-mortar bookstores in the US. The location in Bellevue, WA is packed all the time.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: MisterSG1 on April 03, 2018, 08:32:23 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on April 02, 2018, 02:12:26 PM
More convenient to lobby Congress, as I'm sure others have pointed out.
Amazon is getting big enough to tip over into evil, so that is probably a factor for them in deciding where to go.

Finally someone else agrees with me on Amazon, I NEVER buy anything from them. Perhaps if everyone wasn't so lazy and quit buying from Amazon, then they'd be finished, but I can't see that happening.

People moan about losing local stores and jobs, but many, many jobs have been created from Amazon as well.  If we closed Amazon, there's still going to be thousands of people out of jobs.  And while you may think of those jobs as from not being in the area, they still employ truck drivers, delivery drivers, and other people that live and work in your area.  My town is getting a new Amazon warehouse soon, which will employ quite a number of local and area residents. 



abefroman329

Seeing people moan about Amazon destroying small businesses while happily shopping at Walmart or Home Depot is hilarious.  Particularly since the loss of independent hardware stores, electronics stores, etc. is actually to the detriment of anyone who needs help diagnosing a problem and has to rely on the minimum-wage bots employed by these chains who don't know a damn thing about fuses or toilet handles.  And I'm not sure the actual bookstores who have found a second life by selling books through Amazon are complaining.

Bruce

The retail component of Amazon isn't as important as it once was, especially in the context of HQ2. For example, Amazon Web Services is a huge player in the cloud computing industry and brings in some $17 billion in revenue and holds 34% of the market share.



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