2022 FIFA World Cup

[NWI_Irish96]

Since a lot of people watch the World Cup but not club soccer/football, I thought I'd create a separate thread.

Normally, we'd be about 10 weeks out from the beginning of the group stage, but with summer temperatures in Qatar unsuitable for any sort of outdoor activity, this year's competition will be held in November-December.

Qualifying is just about wrapped up, with 27 of the 32 spots already secured from the following confederations:

UEFA: Serbia, Spain, Switzerland, France, Belgium, Denmark, Netherlands, Croatia, England, Germany, Portugal, Poland

AFC: Qatar (hosts), Iran, South Korea, Saudi Arabia, Japan

CONMEBOL: Brazil, Argentina, Ecuador, Uruguay

CAF: Ghana, Senegal, Tunisia, Morocco, Cameroon

CONCACAF: Canada


There are 13 teams vying for the final five spots:

CONCACAF: Two spots will be secured tomorrow, with the US and Mexico almost certain to be those teams. Costa Rica would need a huge win over the US tomorrow to qualify directly, but most likely they are headed to a June playoff in Qatar with an OFC team.

OFC: New Zealand and the Solomon Islands play tomorrow, with the winner in that June playoff with a CONCACAF team

CONMEBOL: With the final matchday tomorrow; Peru, Columbia and Chile are all alive for a spot in a June playoff with an AFC team.

AFC: Australia and the UAE will play in June to determine who advances to face a CONMEBOL team.

UEFA: The playoff involving Ukraine has been postponed for obvious reasons, with Ukraine now scheduled to face Scotland in June, with the winner playing Wales for the final spot.

[Bruce]

Also important to detail that 6,500 migrant workers from South Asia have died in Qatar since December 2011. 37 of them were related to stadium construction, but the organizing committee classified all but three as being "non-work related". Given that these migrant workers are barely allowed to leave their overcrowded accommodations, this is extremely suspect.

Not particularly excited about this edition, given the situation. The winter timing has already knocked around the schedules for leagues, with MLS having to kick off in February to compensate for the loss of their expected November playoff slots. 2026 will at least be a normal one.

[Roadgeekteen]

I'm not a big soccer fan but I wish it wasn't held in a medieval era state with slavery and awful human rights.

[NWI_Irish96]

Also important to detail that 6,500 migrant workers from South Asia have died in Qatar since December 2011. 37 of them were related to stadium construction, but the organizing committee classified all but three as being "non-work related". Given that these migrant workers are barely allowed to leave their overcrowded accommodations, this is extremely suspect.

Not particularly excited about this edition, given the situation. The winter timing has already knocked around the schedules for leagues, with MLS having to kick off in February to compensate for the loss of their expected November playoff slots. 2026 will at least be a normal one.

I agree that there are a lot of really bad things about how we got to playing in Qatar in November, but the players worked very hard to get there so I'm going to watch them anyway.

[7/8]

I'm excited to watch Canada in the world cup. It'll be the first time in my lifetime that they're in it!

The late November-early December timing is pretty lame though. The world cup has such a summer vibe for me and watching it during the cold gloomy period in Ontario won't feel right. And of course, as others have mentioned, Qatar is a shit country that shouldn't have been awarded the honours in the first place.

[JayhawkCO]

CONMEBOL: With the final matchday tomorrow; Peru, Columbia and Chile are all alive for a spot in a June playoff with an AFC team.

Those games were yesterday. Peru beat Paraguay 2-0 to advance by 1 point over Colombia. Peru now has the intercontinental playoff for the second year in a row and will play either UAE or Australia.

Side note, I kind of hope we lose 5-0 tonight to Costa Rica by us kicking it into our own goal 5 times in injury time. That way we still qualify, and, if Mexico loses, they're in the playoff against (likely) New Zealand.

[english si]

One of the things that bugs me about Qatar that isn't the slave labour and appalling worker safety, or the bribery and corruption, is that they do not have enough cities to host a 32-team World Cup.

I believe there is normally a rule banning a city from having more than 2 stadiums in a city. Even if you ignore that 3 of the 5 cities are basically suburbs of a 4th, one of those 5 cities has 3 of the 8 stadiums. Really though we're looking at a city with 7 stadiums and one not far away with 1.

Russia had 12 stadiums in 11 cities. Brazil and Germany both had 12 stadiums in 12 cities. South Africa had 10 stadiums in 9 cities. Japan and South Korea had 20 stadiums in 20 venues.

Multiple games happening on the same day in a (not huge) Metropolitan area is not good for logistics, security. When they do stuff like the EPL schedule, they will make sure the only place with two games on the same day is London (because there's too many teams to be able to block that) and even then they try hard to make sure that geographically close games are not chronologically close. And UEFA try and make sure there's not two Champions League games in the same city on the same night. All that's out the window here.

[1995hoo]

On the other hand, why should they categorically ban smaller countries from hosting the World Cup just because of a preference for spreading it out more?

[NWI_Irish96]

On the other hand, why should they categorically ban smaller countries from hosting the World Cup just because of a preference for spreading it out more?

Small countries can always jointly host with another country. Qatar could have done a joint bid with Saudi Arabia.

[thspfc]

There has rightfully been a ton of controversy surrounding this tournament. However, what annoys me with people who loudly and proudly claim they're not going to watch is that if your basis for not watching this WC is humanitarian/racial/discrimination/safety/corruption issues in Qatar, you should be thinking about whether watching certain other sports/competitions meets those standards. European club soccer for example is chock-full of corruption, and many of the big teams are owned by the same Middle Eastern oil giants that essentially bought the tournament to Qatar.

While it's much more logical for the tournament to be in the summer, it's going to be fun to be able to watch the World Cup and the NFL, the pinnacles of my two favorite sports to watch, on the same day.

[NWI_Irish96]

As expected, Mexico and the US wrapped up their spots tonight, bringing the total number of qualified teams to 29:

UEFA: Serbia, Spain, Switzerland, France, Belgium, Denmark, Netherlands, Croatia, England, Germany, Portugal, Poland

AFC: Qatar (hosts), Iran, South Korea, Saudi Arabia, Japan

CONMEBOL: Brazil, Argentina, Ecuador, Uruguay

CAF: Ghana, Senegal, Tunisia, Morocco, Cameroon

CONCACAF: Canada, Mexicao, USA


The final three spots will get decided in June:

AFC Playoff: Australia vs UAE, with the winner advancing to the AFC-CONMEBOL playoff against Peru

CONCACAF-OFC playoff: Costa Rica vs New Zealand

UEFA Playoff: Scotland vs Ukraine, with the winner playing Wales


The draw for the group stage will be Friday. Teams are placed into four pots based on FIFA rankings updated to include today's matches.

The hosts, Qatar, go into Pot 1 along with the seven highest ranked qualified teams: BRA, BEL, FRA, ARG, ENG, ESP, POR
Next eight highest ranked qualified teams go into Pot 2: NED, GER, MEX, USA, DEN, SUI, CRO, URU
Next eight highest ranked qualified teams go into Pot 3: SEN, IRN, JAP, MAR, SRB, POL, KOR, TUN
Lowest ranked qualified teams go into Pot 4: CAN, CMR, ECU, KSA, GHA
The three June playoff winners will also go into Pot 4.

As hosts, Qatar are placed into Group A. The rest of the Pot 1 teams are randomly drawn into groups B-H.
Then the Pot 2 teams are randomly drawn into groups A-H, and the same for Pot 3, then Pot 4.

There can be no more than 2 European teams per group, and no more than 1 from any other confederation.

[NWI_Irish96]

If you want to know what the dream draw for the US or Mexico would be, it would be getting drawn into Group A with Qatar, Poland and Ghana. To make it even better, looking ahead to the knockout round, it would include Croatia, Tunisia and Saudi Arabia in Group B, and Portugal heading Group C.

[english si]

On the other hand, why should they categorically ban smaller countries from hosting the World Cup just because of a preference for spreading it out more?

It's only a preference if you think safe, secure and well-run events are optional. I know that having a World Cup in Qatar has already compromised that, but...

Co-hosted competitions are perfectly possible and are fairly common (Euro 2000, ACN 2000, WC 2002, Gold Cup 2003, Asian Cup 2008, ACN 2012, Gold Cup 2015, Gold Cup 2019, Euro 2020). And likely the norm in the future World Cups - FIFA going 48 teams has basically ruled out all but the very biggest countries from sensibly being able to host it alone.

The USA didn't think they could go it alone. England felt it needed some help to do it (though that 5-association bid is now for Euro 2028). Spain feels it needs to do a joint bid with Portugal. All three of those are big enough to have the 16 stadiums necessary, but felt that their smaller neighbours helping out would make it easier.

Small countries can always jointly host with another country. Qatar could have done a joint bid with Saudi Arabia.

I think politics would have stopped that as there's some beef between those countries.

[NWI_Irish96]

On the other hand, why should they categorically ban smaller countries from hosting the World Cup just because of a preference for spreading it out more?

It's only a preference if you think safe, secure and well-run events are optional. I know that having a World Cup in Qatar has already compromised that, but...

Co-hosted competitions are perfectly possible and are fairly common (Euro 2000, ACN 2000, WC 2002, Gold Cup 2003, Asian Cup 2008, ACN 2012, Gold Cup 2015, Gold Cup 2019, Euro 2020). And likely the norm in the future World Cups - FIFA going 48 teams has basically ruled out all but the very biggest countries from sensibly being able to host it alone.

The USA didn't think they could go it alone. England felt it needed some help to do it (though that 5-association bid is now for Euro 2028). Spain feels it needs to do a joint bid with Portugal. All three of those are big enough to have the 16 stadiums necessary, but felt that their smaller neighbours helping out would make it easier.

Small countries can always jointly host with another country. Qatar could have done a joint bid with Saudi Arabia.

I think politics would have stopped that as there's some beef between those countries.

The US certainly could have done it alone. Probably the only country that could actually do a 48 team tournament without crowding too many games into a single city. There are plenty of cities that could host games that aren't in 2026. Chicago, Indianapolis, Detroit to name a few. I think the joint bid was a way to make the bid stronger, and to give Mexico and Canada a chance to host where they otherwise never would be able to.

As for Qatar/KSA, yeah, that was a bad example of a possible joint bid. But then, if Qatar can't get along with their neighbor, maybe that's another sign they shouldn't be hosting.

[english si]

Group A with Qatar, Poland and Ghana.

Still pretty hard. The Asian champions, and two other decent sides.

I'd suggest England (who find the US a bogey team at World Cups), Tunisia, and Saudi Arabia (both of whom perform poorly at World Cups in general) would be the dream draw for the US.

We'd very happily take that group too, though we'd prefer Mexico from that very solid second pot as last time England was in a group with the US, the US won the group.

[english si]

The US certainly could have done it alone. Probably the only country that could actually do a 48 team tournament without crowding too many games into a single city. There are plenty of cities that could host games that aren't in 2026. Chicago, Indianapolis, Detroit to name a few. I think the joint bid was a way to make the bid stronger, and to give Mexico and Canada a chance to host where they otherwise never would be able to.

Mexico has hosted 2 World Cups before - it's not like they wouldn't otherwise have never been able to (and they could have done a Central American joint bid as an alternative way of hosting). But yes - the US could have held 2026 alone (I said as much).

Several cities, including Chicago, withdrew their bid to host games. And some were offered a chance to bid (eg Green Bay) but were uninterested and so didn't bother. There's 17 candidates from the US in final selection. That wouldn't have given the organisers much choice (just dropping one) if it wasn't for the 5 candidates from the other two countries.

[NWI_Irish96]

Group A with Qatar, Poland and Ghana.

Still pretty hard. The Asian champions, and two other decent sides.

I'd suggest England (who find the US a bogey team at World Cups), Tunisia, and Saudi Arabia (both of whom perform poorly at World Cups in general) would be the dream draw for the US.

We'd very happily take that group too, though we'd prefer Mexico from that very solid second pot as last time England was in a group with the US, the US won the group.

Yes, England has a lame WC history but so does Portugal and right now England is a lot better than Portugal, so if the US doesn't draw Qatar, Portugal would be the second choice from Pot 1. I agree that England would rather get Mexico than the US.

[thspfc]

Pretty much the usual suspects in pots 1 and 2, minus Germany being in pot 2 rather than 1 (and obviously Qatar).

For the US, I'd say a group stage exit would be a disappointment, round of 16 is expected, and quarterfinals/beyond would be a very nice surprise.

[thspfc]

Group A with Qatar, Poland and Ghana.

Still pretty hard. The Asian champions, and two other decent sides.

I'd suggest England (who find the US a bogey team at World Cups), Tunisia, and Saudi Arabia (both of whom perform poorly at World Cups in general) would be the dream draw for the US.

We'd very happily take that group too, though we'd prefer Mexico from that very solid second pot as last time England was in a group with the US, the US won the group.

Yes, England has a lame WC history but so does Portugal and right now England is a lot better than Portugal, so if the US doesn't draw Qatar, Portugal would be the second choice from Pot 1. I agree that England would rather get Mexico than the US.

Honestly, I would rather the US draw Portugal than Qatar. The hype and publicity around a US vs. Ronaldo game would be nuts, and would do so much to grow the game here in the states. Qatar would be a much easier victory, but easy victories are not what this young team needs - they need a couple of "real" World Cup matches against elite opponents to help set them up for the 2026 tournament and beyond. And we outplayed Portugal in 2014. While this Portugal team is more talented, the style hasn't changed much, and they still can't figure out who else is going to score besides Ronaldo.

[JayhawkCO]

Bruno Fernandes has a pretty decent goal scoring record for country.

I'll take Argentina from Pot A. I'd love us to play Messi. We already played Ronaldo and completely outplayed them until allowing a stupid equalizer at the end.

[1995hoo]

....

We'd very happily take that group too, though we'd prefer Mexico from that very solid second pot as last time England was in a group with the US, the US won the group.

That was a fine example of a variant on the sportscaster's jinx:

[Bruce]

As a reminder: The general schedule for the World Cup will have matches between 2 am and 1 pm Pacific / 5 am and 4 pm Eastern. Not going to be an easy time for those of us who aren't morning people.

https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/2022-world-cup-schedule-dates-and-times-in-usa-and-canada

[NWI_Irish96]

As a reminder: The general schedule for the World Cup will have matches between 2 am and 1 pm Pacific / 5 am and 4 pm Eastern. Not going to be an easy time for those of us who aren't morning people.

https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/2022-world-cup-schedule-dates-and-times-in-usa-and-canada

So on Saturday 11/26, I can wake up at 4am, watch 3 WC games, then watch 3 college FB games. I'm gonna try that.

[1995hoo]

During the 2002 World Cup, I set my alarm clock for 1:45 AM for the USA—Mexico game, got up and watched it, and went back to bed for two or three hours afterwards. But that was one game and I was 20 years younger. Not sure how I'll do this time around.

[NWI_Irish96]

IIRC, for the group stage, they try to slot games in a way that maximizes TV audiences, so they'll as much as the draw allows, they'll put Asian and Oceania team into the earliest games and North/South American games into the later ones.