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Cities that feel different, despite being geographically "close"

Started by someone17, May 30, 2024, 01:09:26 AM

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someone17

The cities of Louisville and Cincinnati are ~100 miles apart and yet feel incredibly different, while Indianapolis and Columbus, OH feel much more similar to each other, despite being about 175 miles from each other. Los Angeles and San Diego don't feel too different, and are ~120 miles apart yet both Niagara Falls feel rather different than each other.

Obviously these can be attributed due to geographical regions, but it absolutely boggles my mind how different Louisville, Cincy, and Indy feel to each other; Louisville feeling like the usual Southern city, Indianapolis feeling like the average boring suburban Midwestern city, and Cincinnati feeling like an Appalachian city with coal and stuff. Its northern suburbs feel more midwestern, though.

Heck, even Louisville and Jeffersonville, IN feel very different than each other in terms of shops, demographics, and general "feeling".


ZLoth

Fort Worth, TX feels different than Dallas, TX despite being next door neighbors separated by Arlington and Irving.
Don't Drive Distrac... SQUIRREL!

Rothman

This seems totally subjective to me, since I think San Diego and Los Angeles are quite different.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

davewiecking

Not a lot of similarities between DC and Baltimore.

webny99

Quote from: davewiecking on May 30, 2024, 08:53:20 AMNot a lot of similarities between DC and Baltimore.

That's a good one. Not just subtle differences there... even culturally they're very different. And Baltimore is often overshadowed by DC despite being more populous until recently.

IMGoph

Quote from: webny99 on May 30, 2024, 09:02:00 AM
Quote from: davewiecking on May 30, 2024, 08:53:20 AMNot a lot of similarities between DC and Baltimore.

That's a good one. Not just subtle differences there... even culturally they're very different. And Baltimore is often overshadowed by DC despite being more populous until recently.

It makes a big difference too whether you're talking about Black DC and Black Baltimore or White DC and White Baltimore. There are a lot of subtleties that make a difference around our cities. But both are great!

webny99

Not to sound like a caricature of myself, but I think Rochester and Buffalo are very different for how close they are (73 miles between downtowns). Yes, Rochester has the old Kodak Park, but otherwise doesn't feel much like the Rust Belt at all, especially in the suburbs. The housing stock is also very different. Buffalo has tons of neighborhoods that look like this and this which to me is a very Rust Belt/quasi-Midwestern look. Rochester has hardly any neighborhoods that look like those (though there are some on the west side) while having a lot more 2-3 story homes on narrower properties, and split-level homes like this.

Buffalo also has a more blue collar inner ring of suburbs (Lackawanna/West Seneca, Cheektowaga, and the  Tonawandas), that are a big part of what give the area its Rust Belt feel. Meanwhile I would argue Buffalo doesn't have the white collar equivalent of Pittsford/Mendon/Victor which are among the wealthiest suburbs upstate. That's not to say Buffalo doesn't have some really nice suburbs (Orchard Park, Hamburg, Clarence, etc.), but they're not quite on the same level.

WillWeaverRVA

Richmond, Petersburg, and Hopewell are the classic examples of this for central Virginia:

Richmond has quite a few affluent areas and is becoming gentrified in some of the more historically economically depressed areas, though there are some areas that continue to suffer from the effects of segregated development (primarily in the southern and eastern parts of the city). It also has healthy suburbs in Henrico and Chesterfield Counties.

Petersburg has a thriving (but gentrified) old town neighborhood but is otherwise quite dilapidated, mainly due to white flight (to Colonial Heights, and Chesterfield and Dinwiddie Counties) after the collapse of the Byrd Organization, underfunding of infrastructure, and occasional corruption within the city government and its contractors. There was a long saga of Petersburg contracting companies to tear down an infamous former Ramada Inn that was visible from I-95, only for those contractors to take the city's money and run. The hotel finally got torn down a couple of years ago.

Hopewell is an economically depressed military town with a very high crime rate, and large amounts of heavy industry that encroach on low-income residential areas. There have been attempts to revitalize parts of Hopewell, particularly the downtown area, but otherwise it's a pollution-choked wasteland. It also suffered from white flight as people moved into Prince George and Chesterfield Counties, and that is likely to continue with some very high-income housing being built in southeastern Chesterfield.
Will Weaver
WillWeaverRVA Photography | Twitter

"But how will the oxen know where to drown if we renumber the Oregon Trail?" - NE2

SEWIGuy

Madison and Milwaukee.

Milwaukee is much more similar to Chicago than it is to the second largest city in the state. And this isn't a "Madison is liberal" thing. Milwaukee attracted similar immigrant groups as Chicago (Polish, German, etc.).

I also think Milwaukee has a much more distinctive "Northern Cities Vowel Shift" accent similar to Chicago.

JayhawkCO

I think Denver and Colorado Springs, while obviously having some things in common, aren't all that similar. Colorado Springs is either blue collar or waspy with little in between, while Denver has pockets of a little bit of everything.

MATraveler128

Hartford and Providence.

I've been to both downtowns of these cities and each feel way different. Not much happens in Hartford as compared to Providence. The latter feels like a more up and coming city while Hartford just feels very depressing to be there with not much going on. Hartford also seems to have more in common with New York than Boston.
Formerly BlueOutback7

Lowest untraveled number: 96

TXtoNJ

OKC/Tulsa are quite different. So are Tampa and St. Petersburg.

Rothman

Quote from: MATraveler128 on May 30, 2024, 10:35:11 AMHartford and Providence.

I've been to both downtowns of these cities and each feel way different. Not much happens in Hartford as compared to Providence. The latter feels like a more up and coming city while Hartford just feels very depressing to be there with not much going on. Hartford also seems to have more in common with New York than Boston.

Hartford and Providence are a world apart despite their "as the crow flies" distance.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

JayhawkCO

I think we could probably add Austin and San Antonio to this list pretty easily.

hbelkins

Quote from: someone17 on May 30, 2024, 01:09:26 AMThe cities of Louisville and Cincinnati are ~100 miles apart and yet feel incredibly different, while Indianapolis and Columbus, OH feel much more similar to each other, despite being about 175 miles from each other. Los Angeles and San Diego don't feel too different, and are ~120 miles apart yet both Niagara Falls feel rather different than each other.

Obviously these can be attributed due to geographical regions, but it absolutely boggles my mind how different Louisville, Cincy, and Indy feel to each other; Louisville feeling like the usual Southern city, Indianapolis feeling like the average boring suburban Midwestern city, and Cincinnati feeling like an Appalachian city with coal and stuff. Its northern suburbs feel more midwestern, though.

Heck, even Louisville and Jeffersonville, IN feel very different than each other in terms of shops, demographics, and general "feeling".

I was going to say Louisville and Cincy, Louisville and Indy, Indy and Cincy, and will throw in Louisville and Nashville as well.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

wriddle082

^ All four of Tennessee's largest cities are very different from one another.

Downtown Memphis is older and feels very depressing.  The only safeish areas of the city proper are maybe along the Union Ave, Poplar Ave, and Walnut Grove Rd corridors (due east), and possibly around the University of Memphis.  Everyplace else is very dangerous.  The suburbs of Bartlett, Germantown, and Collierville are also considered safe, as well as most of the Mississippi suburbs, but the West Memphis, AR area is nearly as dangerous as Memphis proper.

Nashville is now thriving just about everywhere.  Even the traditionally dangerous parts of town (North Nashville, Bordeaux, and parts of Antioch) are experiencing regentrification.  There has always been some sort of industry there, but white collar/tech jobs are really starting to take off nowadays.  The suburbs are all pretty much generally safe, though LaVergne is starting to not be quite as safe.

Knoxville is very much an Appalachian city and proud of it.  Proximity to the vacation areas of the Smokey Mountains have driven its growth, but not by as much as Nashville.

Chattanooga is a nice mix of Atlanta, Nashville, and Knoxville.  The locals identify with Atlanta more than Nashville because it's closer, but their downtown entertainment district, while smaller, seems to have more in common with Nashville's, and it shares a lot of the same Appalachian traits with Knoxville.  It also once had a Birmingham feel with the old steel mills, but they are all shut down now.  Manufacturing is still big with a fairly new Volkswagen assembly plant.

Max Rockatansky

San Francisco, Oakland and San Jose all feel different from each other.  San Francisco is the only one of the three where true Manhattanization took place.  Oakland feels the most industrial and San Jose the most modern.

epzik8

Quote from: davewiecking on May 30, 2024, 08:53:20 AMNot a lot of similarities between DC and Baltimore.

I'm a Baltimorean, my parents both from DC, and my dad and I have different outlooks when it comes to a lot of things. These cities are polar opposites.
From the land of red, white, yellow and black.
____________________________

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bing101

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 30, 2024, 05:16:28 PMSan Francisco, Oakland and San Jose all feel different from each other.  San Francisco is the only one of the three where true Manhattanization took place.  Oakland feels the most industrial and San Jose the most modern.
I agree with this for my birthplace the Bay Area. I remember it used to be a big deal whenever two Norcal teams in the MLB and NFL were against each other and we called it the "Bay Bridge Series."  The only one where there is a NorCal Rivalry for many years to come is in the NBA where the Kings Vs. Warriors fight for the NorCal Audience. Also the dividing line between the Sacramento area and Bay Area happens to be in Solano County where we mix the two together.

TheStranger

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 30, 2024, 05:16:28 PMSan Francisco, Oakland and San Jose all feel different from each other.  San Francisco is the only one of the three where true Manhattanization took place.  Oakland feels the most industrial and San Jose the most modern.

San Jose is definitely the one part where SoCal/Texas type sprawl (albeit on a smaller scale) has occurred.  The downtown being low-rise is more a consequence of SJC airport being next door, but I do find that the late night dining/bar scene there is a bit more consistently lively compared to post-pandemic SF.

Downtown Oakland has some tall buildings, yet overall doesn't feel particularly thriving.  Oakland itself is a great example of severe economic inequality in the Bay Area (compare Oakland Hills to the residential neighborhoods immediately near Oakland Coliseum) and to some degree that has spilled over into the downtown area, there were noticeable empty storefronts before the pandemic (as opposed to SF getting impacted the most by lockdown and subsequent retrenchment of day-to-day employees).

---

Since Louisville vs. Cincy was mentioned...a similar dynamic exists with the Bay Area vs. Sacramento:

- Sacramento's vibe is a bit more midwestern due to climate and flatter geography
- While lots of Bay Area people have moved to Sac, and I lived there for 7 years...there's a distinct, "We're Californian but we're not from the more famous areas" attitude in that part of the valley
- Sacramento has one sports team that is firmly a part of the municipal identity (the Kings) while the Bay has numerous sports teams, some of which reflect existing Oakland/SF rivalry splits
- Downtown Sacramento is kind of a mix of Oakland and San Jose's downtowns in vibe - somewhat thriving, but with some of the issues that downtown Oakland had with empty storefronts, iffy city blocks outside of the core shopping area, etc.  Suburban Sacramento resembles the flat, sprawling Santa Clara County devleopment pattern (but with less of the tech or gentrification out there)


Sacramento vs. Stockton: the two cities are only 45 miles apart, but...
- Stockton's downtown is one of the worst I have ever been to anywhere.  Very little pedestrian activity, even during the day.  Despite the arena and some mid-rise towers, overall it felt like a ghost town (and not that sort of "desolate, but nobody's here so it's safe") - this was true in 2017 and then in later visits in 2020 during the pandemic.
- Stockton's suburban neighborhoods are kinda like the lower-income suburban parts of Sacramento (South Sacramento, North Highlands, parts of Rancho Cordova, parts of West Sacramento), but less safe.  Pretty much the only districts in Stockton I can vouch for as being "okay" are around Miracle Mile and the community college.
- Sacramento and the Bay Area each have numerous tourist attractions.  Stockton?  Not really sure.

---

Bakersfield is about 110 miles from Fresno and 120 from downtown Los Angeles and definitely feels like neither of those places, in part due to Bakersfield's more desert-like climate, its history with cowboy/country music culture, and its history with oil wells in the nearby area. 

---

Quote from: bing101I remember it used to be a big deal whenever two Norcal teams in the MLB and NFL were against each other and we called it the "Bay Bridge Series."  The only one where there is a NorCal Rivalry for many years to come is in the NBA where the Kings Vs. Warriors.

...that's in part because 2 of the Oakland teams have moved or are moving to Las Vegas (A's and Raiders).  I recall the Raiders/Niners games had problems with violent fan confrontations over the years.
Chris Sampang

Rothman

Quote from: wriddle082 on May 30, 2024, 04:28:49 PM^ All four of Tennessee's largest cities are very different from one another.

Downtown Memphis is older and feels very depressing.  The only safeish areas of the city proper are maybe along the Union Ave, Poplar Ave, and Walnut Grove Rd corridors (due east), and possibly around the University of Memphis.  Everyplace else is very dangerous.  The suburbs of Bartlett, Germantown, and Collierville are also considered safe, as well as most of the Mississippi suburbs, but the West Memphis, AR area is nearly as dangerous as Memphis proper.

Nashville is now thriving just about everywhere.  Even the traditionally dangerous parts of town (North Nashville, Bordeaux, and parts of Antioch) are experiencing regentrification.  There has always been some sort of industry there, but white collar/tech jobs are really starting to take off nowadays.  The suburbs are all pretty much generally safe, though LaVergne is starting to not be quite as safe.

Knoxville is very much an Appalachian city and proud of it.  Proximity to the vacation areas of the Smokey Mountains have driven its growth, but not by as much as Nashville.

Chattanooga is a nice mix of Atlanta, Nashville, and Knoxville.  The locals identify with Atlanta more than Nashville because it's closer, but their downtown entertainment district, while smaller, seems to have more in common with Nashville's, and it shares a lot of the same Appalachian traits with Knoxville.  It also once had a Birmingham feel with the old steel mills, but they are all shut down now.  Manufacturing is still big with a fairly new Volkswagen assembly plant.


Although Memphis is having some dark days right now, I find your assessment overly negative.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

bing101

Quote from: TheStranger on May 30, 2024, 06:36:06 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 30, 2024, 05:16:28 PMSan Francisco, Oakland and San Jose all feel different from each other.  San Francisco is the only one of the three where true Manhattanization took place.  Oakland feels the most industrial and San Jose the most modern.

San Jose is definitely the one part where SoCal/Texas type sprawl (albeit on a smaller scale) has occurred.  The downtown being low-rise is more a consequence of SJC airport being next door, but I do find that the late night dining/bar scene there is a bit more consistently lively compared to post-pandemic SF.

Downtown Oakland has some tall buildings, yet overall doesn't feel particularly thriving.  Oakland itself is a great example of severe economic inequality in the Bay Area (compare Oakland Hills to the residential neighborhoods immediately near Oakland Coliseum) and to some degree that has spilled over into the downtown area, there were noticeable empty storefronts before the pandemic (as opposed to SF getting impacted the most by lockdown and subsequent retrenchment of day-to-day employees).

---

Since Louisville vs. Cincy was mentioned...a similar dynamic exists with the Bay Area vs. Sacramento:

- Sacramento's vibe is a bit more midwestern due to climate and flatter geography
- While lots of Bay Area people have moved to Sac, and I lived there for 7 years...there's a distinct, "We're Californian but we're not from the more famous areas" attitude in that part of the valley
- Sacramento has one sports team that is firmly a part of the municipal identity (the Kings) while the Bay has numerous sports teams, some of which reflect existing Oakland/SF rivalry splits
- Downtown Sacramento is kind of a mix of Oakland and San Jose's downtowns in vibe - somewhat thriving, but with some of the issues that downtown Oakland had with empty storefronts, iffy city blocks outside of the core shopping area, etc.  Suburban Sacramento resembles the flat, sprawling Santa Clara County devleopment pattern (but with less of the tech or gentrification out there)


Sacramento vs. Stockton: the two cities are only 45 miles apart, but...
- Stockton's downtown is one of the worst I have ever been to anywhere.  Very little pedestrian activity, even during the day.  Despite the arena and some mid-rise towers, overall it felt like a ghost town (and not that sort of "desolate, but nobody's here so it's safe") - this was true in 2017 and then in later visits in 2020 during the pandemic.
- Stockton's suburban neighborhoods are kinda like the lower-income suburban parts of Sacramento (South Sacramento, North Highlands, parts of Rancho Cordova, parts of West Sacramento), but less safe.  Pretty much the only districts in Stockton I can vouch for as being "okay" are around Miracle Mile and the community college.
- Sacramento and the Bay Area each have numerous tourist attractions.  Stockton?  Not really sure.

---

Bakersfield is about 110 miles from Fresno and 120 from downtown Los Angeles and definitely feels like neither of those places, in part due to Bakersfield's more desert-like climate, its history with cowboy/country music culture, and its history with oil wells in the nearby area. 

---

Quote from: bing101I remember it used to be a big deal whenever two Norcal teams in the MLB and NFL were against each other and we called it the "Bay Bridge Series."  The only one where there is a NorCal Rivalry for many years to come is in the NBA where the Kings Vs. Warriors.

...that's in part because 2 of the Oakland teams have moved or are moving to Las Vegas (A's and Raiders).  I recall the Raiders/Niners games had problems with violent fan confrontations over the years.


On the Suburban levels Tracy mainly focuses on commuters to San Jose, Palo Alto, San Mateo. On the other hand places like Fairfield, Suisun City and Vacaville has to respond to commuters to Oakland, Berkeley, San Francisco, Davis, West Sacramento and Sacramento commuters.

And yes if its the NBA's Kings and Warriors its called the I-80 Series and Solano County happens to be the dividing line between Sacramento Valley and San Francisco Bay Area.


Max Rockatansky

Bakersfield always felt more like Clovis than it does Fresno to me.  They lean heavily into the that whole "cowboy/mountain" aesthetic in Clovis and Bakersfield.

TheStranger

Here's one I like bringing up a lot from personal experience:

In the Philippines' National Capital Region, Manila and Makati are next door neighbors, and Makati also borders the Bonifacio Global City district of Taguig.

Without going into the (very extensive) ongoing Makati/Taguig war over territorial control of BGC - which is still a problem even after Philippine courts have ruled that the BGC district is permanently Taguig's - here's the vibe differences I get in what is essentially less than 10 miles total from one end to the other.

Manila
- While the more prominent city historically, overcrowding there led to Makati going from an airport-centered suburb (not dissimilar to San Bruno, California) in the mid-1940s...to Makati being the financial capital of the Philippines, which it remains to this day despite the gleaming new developments in BGC.
- Binondo, the Chinatown/CBD north of the Pasig River, is all at once nicely developed (some newer malls) but also showing its age compared to the BGC and Makati skyscraper sets.
- Malate and Ermita once represented the main tourist areas with waterfront views and access along Roxas Boulevard; the hotel and entertainment district in Bay City in Pasay immediately to the south has taken over for most of that, centered around Mall of Asia.  for that matter, the Makati luxury hotel district near the core Greenbelt/Glorietta mall complex was created virtually overnight in 1976 and continues to provide its own set of first-world quality accomodations, too.
- While Manila has very good malls in city limits (namely Robinsons Manila and SM City Manila), they don't have the regional/tourist cache of say Mall of Asia, or Mandaluyong's Megamall, or Greenbelt/Glorietta, or the various malls and outdoor pedestrian street (Bonifacio High Street) in BGC.
- The abandoned/dilaipdated theater district along Rizal Avenue is roughly equivalent to Los Angeles' Broadway or San Francisco's Mid-Market.
- For historic reasons, Manila has most of the universities in the region, along the University Belt district.  (Though the University of the Philippines has a major campus in Quezon City's Diliman area, which is not immediately nearby to Manila's city limits)

Makati
- Prior to 1947, the main international airport (Nielsen Field) was operational in this city; when the airport closed due to the government moving all commercial air to NAIA, the old Nielsen Field runways became the three key streets of the CBD (Ayala Avenue, Makati Avenue, Paseo de Roxas)
- Gated subdivisions near the CBD, i.e. Dasmarinas Village just south of the hotel district, Bel-Air Village
- 1960s photos show plenty of empty land south of Buendia Avenue and along Dela Rosa Street; though that slowly started fillling in by the mid-70s, 1960s Makati more resembled an Irvine than a major urban core.  But the skyscraper boom of the 90s firmly established Makati as a major city in its own right and not simply a business park suburb of Manila; by the time of my first visit (2016) the Ayala CBD offers similarities to San Francisco's Financial District in terms of density and walkability.
- Outside of the CBD, the apartment stock does look a tiny bit more dilapidated, whether its due to construction materials, paint quality, or the sheer amount of traffic and jeepney exhaust pollution.  That being said, even the less-luxurious parts of Makati overall look better than the poorer parts of Manila.
- the Rockwell district of Makati can be likened to a miniature version of West LA, with a luxury mall (Power Plant) and nicer restaurants/establishments somewhat hidden away from the rest the city.
- Poblacion, the original municipal center of Makati, can be likened to San Francisco's Civic Center, except that Poblacion also is the heart of Makati's nightlife and does have several decent hotels (if less luxurious than anything near Greenbelt mall).
- Amusingly, even though there are parts of residential Makati that superficially resemble the portions of Manila it borders (dilapidated low-rise housing), one way to tell the two cities apart is the quality of drivers: Makati drivers do crowd to intersections but they rarely ever ignore stoplights or do truly zany things on the road; Manila drivers ignore red lights and road markings are sometimes a suggestion.  (I've also seen a situation where someone placed a hot tub out on a public sidewalk on Pedro Gil Street in Manila...)


Bonifacio Global City
- Since development of this former American military base started ca. 1995, everything here is hyper modern, and the streets are very spread out.  Kinda reminds me of Dallas if Dallas didn't have any freeways cutting through it; BGC has a nearby partial expressway (C-5) on its south edge, but not really through town.
- Jeepneys are banned throughout most of the CBD, likely to discourage possible pollution in the area but also to prevent the disorganized stop-and-go pickup style of jeepney drivers from interfering with local traffic.
- If Makati is very much Manhattanized 1970s Western style, BGC is 90s-present hyper modern first world development, stylistically somewhere between an Irvine and a Dubai.  Large city blocks.
- BGC also has its thriving bits of nightlife, probably in part due to its modernity and perceived safety compared to Manila
- Lot less aggressive driving in BGC than Makati or Manila, and stoplights are always followed.  Feels like driving in Fremont in terms of everyone mostly sticking to traffic rules, not over-crowding, etc.
Chris Sampang

bing101

Quote from: TheStranger on May 30, 2024, 07:31:03 PMHere's one I like bringing up a lot from personal experience:

In the Philippines' National Capital Region, Manila and Makati are next door neighbors, and Makati also borders the Bonifacio Global City district of Taguig.

Without going into the (very extensive) ongoing Makati/Taguig war over territorial control of BGC - which is still a problem even after Philippine courts have ruled that the BGC district is permanently Taguig's - here's the vibe differences I get in what is essentially less than 10 miles total from one end to the other.

Manila
- While the more prominent city historically, overcrowding there led to Makati going from an airport-centered suburb (not dissimilar to San Bruno, California) in the mid-1940s...to Makati being the financial capital of the Philippines, which it remains to this day despite the gleaming new developments in BGC.
- Binondo, the Chinatown/CBD north of the Pasig River, is all at once nicely developed (some newer malls) but also showing its age compared to the BGC and Makati skyscraper sets.
- Malate and Ermita once represented the main tourist areas with waterfront views and access along Roxas Boulevard; the hotel and entertainment district in Bay City in Pasay immediately to the south has taken over for most of that, centered around Mall of Asia.  for that matter, the Makati luxury hotel district near the core Greenbelt/Glorietta mall complex was created virtually overnight in 1976 and continues to provide its own set of first-world quality accomodations, too.
- While Manila has very good malls in city limits (namely Robinsons Manila and SM City Manila), they don't have the regional/tourist cache of say Mall of Asia, or Mandaluyong's Megamall, or Greenbelt/Glorietta, or the various malls and outdoor pedestrian street (Bonifacio High Street) in BGC.
- The abandoned/dilaipdated theater district along Rizal Avenue is roughly equivalent to Los Angeles' Broadway or San Francisco's Mid-Market.
- For historic reasons, Manila has most of the universities in the region, along the University Belt district.  (Though the University of the Philippines has a major campus in Quezon City's Diliman area, which is not immediately nearby to Manila's city limits)

Makati
- Prior to 1947, the main international airport (Nielsen Field) was operational in this city; when the airport closed due to the government moving all commercial air to NAIA, the old Nielsen Field runways became the three key streets of the CBD (Ayala Avenue, Makati Avenue, Paseo de Roxas)
- Gated subdivisions near the CBD, i.e. Dasmarinas Village just south of the hotel district, Bel-Air Village
- 1960s photos show plenty of empty land south of Buendia Avenue and along Dela Rosa Street; though that slowly started fillling in by the mid-70s, 1960s Makati more resembled an Irvine than a major urban core.  But the skyscraper boom of the 90s firmly established Makati as a major city in its own right and not simply a business park suburb of Manila; by the time of my first visit (2016) the Ayala CBD offers similarities to San Francisco's Financial District in terms of density and walkability.
- Outside of the CBD, the apartment stock does look a tiny bit more dilapidated, whether its due to construction materials, paint quality, or the sheer amount of traffic and jeepney exhaust pollution.  That being said, even the less-luxurious parts of Makati overall look better than the poorer parts of Manila.
- the Rockwell district of Makati can be likened to a miniature version of West LA, with a luxury mall (Power Plant) and nicer restaurants/establishments somewhat hidden away from the rest the city.
- Poblacion, the original municipal center of Makati, can be likened to San Francisco's Civic Center, except that Poblacion also is the heart of Makati's nightlife and does have several decent hotels (if less luxurious than anything near Greenbelt mall).
- Amusingly, even though there are parts of residential Makati that superficially resemble the portions of Manila it borders (dilapidated low-rise housing), one way to tell the two cities apart is the quality of drivers: Makati drivers do crowd to intersections but they rarely ever ignore stoplights or do truly zany things on the road; Manila drivers ignore red lights and road markings are sometimes a suggestion.  (I've also seen a situation where someone placed a hot tub out on a public sidewalk on Pedro Gil Street in Manila...)


Bonifacio Global City
- Since development of this former American military base started ca. 1995, everything here is hyper modern, and the streets are very spread out.  Kinda reminds me of Dallas if Dallas didn't have any freeways cutting through it; BGC has a nearby partial expressway (C-5) on its south edge, but not really through town.
- Jeepneys are banned throughout most of the CBD, likely to discourage possible pollution in the area but also to prevent the disorganized stop-and-go pickup style of jeepney drivers from interfering with local traffic.
- If Makati is very much Manhattanized 1970s Western style, BGC is 90s-present hyper modern first world development, stylistically somewhere between an Irvine and a Dubai.  Large city blocks.
- BGC also has its thriving bits of nightlife, probably in part due to its modernity and perceived safety compared to Manila
- Lot less aggressive driving in BGC than Makati or Manila, and stoplights are always followed.  Feels like driving in Fremont in terms of everyone mostly sticking to traffic rules, not over-crowding, etc.

I have another one Cebu City

They started putting up more skyscrapers in the area and they are the tallest buildings outside Metro Manila.  Also they have the CCLEX Bridge which is basically the Bay Bridge of Visayas. They are up there for next economic hub after Manila. Its all a part of  decentralizing the Philippine economy. Its a case of its less crowded than metro Manila as of 2024 and population density is subject to change. 





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