New York State Thruway

[Buffaboy]

What do motorists get by paying tolls for the Thruway, especially upstate? Why is it that we pay the tolls that we do and still have cracked/older pavement, like around the PA line, but places like PA, NC/SC/GA and even FL have better functioning roads, as well as newer rest stations? I get that weather takes its toll (no pun intended) on the pavement but isn't there a better way to keep the roads smooth?

[webny99]

There is some serious pavement quality issues between Lancaster and Pembroke that are being worked on now. Something must have gone wrong with the last resurfacing (which was only a few years ago, IIRC).

[astralentity]

There is some serious pavement quality issues between Lancaster and Pembroke that are being worked on now. Something must have gone wrong with the last resurfacing (which was only a few years ago, IIRC).

I heard the fine folks in Irving wouldn't let the thruway crews on to repair the sections of the road that were in the worst condition.  Guess where those sections lie?

[webny99]

I heard the fine folks in Irving wouldn't let the thruway crews on to repair the sections of the road that were in the worst condition.  Guess where those sections lie?

No guesswork required - how well I know about the segment through the Seneca Nation. It even has permanent "rough road" signs and the speed limit reduced to 55 mph.

[astralentity]

I heard the fine folks in Irving wouldn't let the thruway crews on to repair the sections of the road that were in the worst condition.  Guess where those sections lie?

No guesswork required - how well I know about the segment through the Seneca Nation. It even has permanent "rough road" signs and the speed limit reduced to 55 mph.

I still see the road and the ROW as owned by the People, so the Senecas really can't tell the Authority where the bear goes in the woods.

[seicer]

Some of the newest concrete pavement west of Syracuse is also beginning to fail, and it looks like the Thruway is scheduling major work on it next year.

[astralentity]

Some of the newest concrete pavement west of Syracuse is also beginning to fail, and it looks like the Thruway is scheduling major work on it next year.

And people think I'm crazy for taking I-86 for points west.  Takes a bit longer than the Thruway going to Michigan, but it's way worth it.

[Rothman]

Some of the newest concrete pavement west of Syracuse is also beginning to fail, and it looks like the Thruway is scheduling major work on it next year.

And people think I'm crazy for taking I-86 for points west.  Takes a bit longer than the Thruway going to Michigan, but it's way worth it.

In what way?

[kalvado]

Some of the newest concrete pavement west of Syracuse is also beginning to fail, and it looks like the Thruway is scheduling major work on it next year.

And people think I'm crazy for taking I-86 for points west.  Takes a bit longer than the Thruway going to Michigan, but it's way worth it.

In what way?

For one, overhead is not that big. Per google, shunpiking via I-88 and I-86 from Albany to Cleveland adds 25 miles, or 5% of trip mileage. Time penalty is also not that bad.
When I was driving Albany to Ithaca on a regular basis (pre-cell phone days), I-88 was my preferred daytime route for traffic reasons, and Thruway preferred nighttime one for emergency assistance reasons.

[astralentity]

Some of the newest concrete pavement west of Syracuse is also beginning to fail, and it looks like the Thruway is scheduling major work on it next year.

And people think I'm crazy for taking I-86 for points west.  Takes a bit longer than the Thruway going to Michigan, but it's way worth it.

In what way?

Haven't figured that out yet....  it seems that some just don't understand the utility of I-86 yet, probably because they remember a time when 17 wasn't quite a freeway.

[astralentity]

Some of the newest concrete pavement west of Syracuse is also beginning to fail, and it looks like the Thruway is scheduling major work on it next year.

And people think I'm crazy for taking I-86 for points west.  Takes a bit longer than the Thruway going to Michigan, but it's way worth it.

In what way?

For one, overhead is not that big. Per google, shunpiking via I-88 and I-86 from Albany to Cleveland adds 25 miles, or 5% of trip mileage. Time penalty is also not that bad.
When I was driving Albany to Ithaca on a regular basis (pre-cell phone days), I-88 was my preferred daytime route for traffic reasons, and Thruway preferred nighttime one for emergency assistance reasons.

At my work, some of our fleet came from Madison, WI.  One guy said he absolutely avoids the Thruway whenever he can.  Obviously, shunpiking around Chicago and 80-90 isn't the easiest thing, but they have a choice of taking I-90 to I-86, or I-80 to I-81 when they get to Cleveland.

[webny99]

Some of the newest concrete pavement west of Syracuse is also beginning to fail, and it looks like the Thruway is scheduling major work on it next year.

And people think I'm crazy for taking I-86 for points west.  Takes a bit longer than the Thruway going to Michigan, but it's way worth it.

In what way?

Haven't figured that out yet....  it seems that some just don't understand the utility of I-86 yet, probably because they remember a time when 17 wasn't quite a freeway.

I think you may have misunderstood Rothman. I think he was asking in what way is it worth it, not in what way do people think you're crazy.

I can think of three main reasons to take I-86: less traffic, no tolls, better scenery.
Obviously it's longer mileage and is going to take a bit longer, but YMMV as to whether the trade off is worth it.

[astralentity]

Some of the newest concrete pavement west of Syracuse is also beginning to fail, and it looks like the Thruway is scheduling major work on it next year.

And people think I'm crazy for taking I-86 for points west.  Takes a bit longer than the Thruway going to Michigan, but it's way worth it.

In what way?

Haven't figured that out yet....  it seems that some just don't understand the utility of I-86 yet, probably because they remember a time when 17 wasn't quite a freeway.

I think you may have misunderstood Rothman. I think he was asking in what way is it worth it, not in what way do people think you're crazy.

I can think of three main reasons to take I-86: less traffic, no tolls, better scenery.
Obviously it's longer mileage and is going to take a bit longer, but YMMV as to whether the trade off is worth it.

Tried going thru Canada once to get to Chicago.  The 405 > QEW > Parkway > 403 > 401 > 402 route to get to I-94 in Port Huron.  You lose about 30-40 minutes at Niagara Falls.

[vdeane]

Per Google, the difference between using I-90 vs. I-88/I-86 between Albany and Erie is 20 minutes.

[astralentity]

Per Google, the difference between using I-90 vs. I-88/I-86 between Albany and Erie is 20 minutes.

Which really makes it a no-brainer, especially with how traffic can get snarled up in Buffalo.

[Rothman]

I have yet to be persuaded that I-90 gets "snarled" regularly in Buffalo, especially after seeing Region 5's data on the matter.

The traffic data actually shows that Buffalo doesn't have rush hours, but it actually peaks mid-day.  Probably reflective of the employment situation.

(personal opinion emphasized)

[webny99]

Some of the newest concrete pavement west of Syracuse is also beginning to fail, and it looks like the Thruway is scheduling major work on it next year.

And people think I'm crazy for taking I-86 for points west.  Takes a bit longer than the Thruway going to Michigan, but it's way worth it.

In what way?

Haven't figured that out yet....  it seems that some just don't understand the utility of I-86 yet, probably because they remember a time when 17 wasn't quite a freeway.

I think you may have misunderstood Rothman. I think he was asking in what way is it worth it, not in what way do people think you're crazy.
I can think of three main reasons to take I-86: less traffic, no tolls, better scenery.
Obviously it's longer mileage and is going to take a bit longer, but YMMV as to whether the trade off is worth it.

Tried going thru Canada once to get to Chicago.  The 405 > QEW > Parkway > 403 > 401 > 402 route to get to I-94 in Port Huron.  You lose about 30-40 minutes at Niagara Falls.

If I was confused before, I don't know what I am now. I don't see any relevance to the discussion at hand.

[astralentity]

Some of the newest concrete pavement west of Syracuse is also beginning to fail, and it looks like the Thruway is scheduling major work on it next year.

And people think I'm crazy for taking I-86 for points west.  Takes a bit longer than the Thruway going to Michigan, but it's way worth it.

In what way?

Haven't figured that out yet....  it seems that some just don't understand the utility of I-86 yet, probably because they remember a time when 17 wasn't quite a freeway.

I think you may have misunderstood Rothman. I think he was asking in what way is it worth it, not in what way do people think you're crazy.
I can think of three main reasons to take I-86: less traffic, no tolls, better scenery.
Obviously it's longer mileage and is going to take a bit longer, but YMMV as to whether the trade off is worth it.

Tried going thru Canada once to get to Chicago.  The 405 > QEW > Parkway > 403 > 401 > 402 route to get to I-94 in Port Huron.  You lose about 30-40 minutes at Niagara Falls.

If I was confused before, I don't know what I am now. I don't see any relevance to the discussion at hand.

Trying to explain that it's 50/50 whether or not you take the Thruway or I-86 to get to points west of Erie.  Thruway may be convenient, but I-86 is a bit more cost and time effective, at least in my estimation.

[Rothman]

I don't see how I-86 could be time effective over the Thruway.  I can see the other "benefits" (less traffic and scenery), but not time.

[cl94]

I have yet to be persuaded that I-90 gets "snarled" regularly in Buffalo, especially after seeing Region 5's data on the matter.

The traffic data actually shows that Buffalo doesn't have rush hours, but it actually peaks mid-day.  Probably reflective of the employment situation.

(personal opinion emphasized)

As a former employee of the Buffalo MPO, I can say that the Thruway is one of the only roadways to regularly experience severe congestion in the region. It's mostly related to the toll booths. Before the widening/lane reassignment 50-51, that stretch was the only major spot of recurrent freeway congestion in the area not linked to a toll booth or border crossing. Congestion was usually worst here during the PM rush.

That being said, you do NOT want to be approaching either of the mainline barriers, particularly the Williamsville barrier, during a traditional rush hour or major holiday travel day either in the US or Canada. It is not unusual for the WB Thruway to back up to NY 78 due to the tolls.

I don't see how I-86 could be time effective over the Thruway.  I can see the other "benefits" (less traffic and scenery), but not time.

Time is basically the only benefit the Thruway has, and even then, it's half an hour. The real reasons to use 86 are that it saves $16 in tolls and has an easier on/off for off-highway services. Relatively few Thruway exits have easy access to food if you don't want to pay service area prices. Heck, even somewhere like Newburgh, which used to be a Breezewood, has relatively little that is convenient or easy to find unless you know it's there.

[Rothman]

Good thing the toll booths are going away, then.

[vdeane]

The Google Maps traffic view begs to differ on the "Buffalo has no rush hour" thing.  Same with my personal experience.  You don't want to be driving eastbound on I-290 or NY 33 at rush hour.  I-90 EB at that hour will be stop and go in the right two lanes but flowing at the speed limit in the left two lanes.  Taking that loop ramp from NY 33 EB to I-90 EB with intent to drive to Rochester or points east at that hour is a pretty harrowing experience (not that it's ever easy).

[Rothman]

Take it up with Region 5.  It was their data.

[Alps]

I don't see how I-86 could be time effective over the Thruway.  I can see the other "benefits" (less traffic and scenery), but not time.

Because 86 has less traffic, you can generally cruise at 75-79. The trucks on the Thruway in both lanes slow your average down.

[Rothman]

I don't see how I-86 could be time effective over the Thruway.  I can see the other "benefits" (less traffic and scenery), but not time.

Because 86 has less traffic, you can generally cruise at 75-79. The trucks on the Thruway in both lanes slow your average down.

I still doubt it.