New York State Thruway

[Beltway]

I don't see how I-86 could be time effective over the Thruway.  I can see the other "benefits" (less traffic and scenery), but not time.

Because 86 has less traffic, you can generally cruise at 75-79. The trucks on the Thruway in both lanes slow your average down.

I still doubt it.

I-86 time effective for what trip pair?

[Rothman]

Albany to Chicago

[Alps]

I don't see how I-86 could be time effective over the Thruway.  I can see the other "benefits" (less traffic and scenery), but not time.

Because 86 has less traffic, you can generally cruise at 75-79. The trucks on the Thruway in both lanes slow your average down.

I still doubt it.

On I-88 people routinely do 90-100...

[vdeane]

Take it up with Region 5.  It was their data.

I was going off the congestion levels on the Google Maps traffic layer.  That said, I did pull some reports from Traffic Data Viewer (the newest version even has reports on the Thruway!) on I-90, I-190, I-290, NY 33, and NY 198, and they showed traditional direction morning/afternoon peaks.

[webny99]

The Google Maps traffic view begs to differ on the "Buffalo has no rush hour" thing.  Same with my personal experience.  You don't want to be driving eastbound on I-290 or NY 33 at rush hour.

Yeah, I would agree with that. I-290 EB to Thruway WB is a major bottleneck, and so is NY 33 EB to Thruway EB. Obviously, long distance traffic is going to be higher around midday. It's unsurprising that many Buffalo surface streets peak around noon (which is I think what Rothman was referring to), but the freeways, especially I-290 and NY 33, and areas near employment centers definitely have the morning and afternoon peaks.

[CapeCodder]

Does the Clifton Springs service plaza still have Roy Rogers? IIRC that's the only one I've seen in years (was passing thru on Greyhound and we stopped there.)

[WNYroadgeek]

Does the Clifton Springs service plaza still have Roy Rogers? IIRC that's the only one I've seen in years (was passing thru on Greyhound and we stopped there.)

According to NYSTA's website, it's a Burger King now.

[CapeCodder]

Does the Clifton Springs service plaza still have Roy Rogers? IIRC that's the only one I've seen in years (was passing thru on Greyhound and we stopped there.)

According to NYSTA's website, it's a Burger King now.

Oh man, I guess Roy Rogers is extinct now. Wasn't bad, but at 3 AM anything will do.

[Jim]

Roy Rogers remains open at some service areas: https://www.thruway.ny.gov/travelers/travelplazas/tpmap11.pdf

[Beltway]

Albany to Chicago

About 25 minutes and 25 miles longer per Google Maps, to use I-88 and I-86.

But that would avoid about 350 miles of tolls.

[roadman65]

Was given to me an old 1962 map of NJ that showed the Tappan Zee Bridge as being 50 cents in both directions as well as the Yonkers toll barrier as 25 cents.  It also showed only the section of Thruway south of Exit 8 as only I-87 as from Exits 8 to 15 was solely I-287.  I am guessing that was when I-684 was signed as I-87.

Also the map shows the Verrazano Bridge being Under Construction and NY 439 being highlighted in red on Forest Avenue, Victory Blvd, and Bay Street to St George as principal through route across the island.  Then the then Bay Ridge Ferry was 60 cents to use as the current SI Ferry to Manhattan was 67 cents (which is odd cause in 1877 the fare was a dime). 

Back to the Thruway, Exit 8 was considered to be the Elmsford exit and not White Plains as it is now.  Old Esso maps always showed the names of toll road interchanges as well as numbers.  It is interesting to see some of the changes from old till now.

[machias]

Back to the Thruway, Exit 8 was considered to be the Elmsford exit and not White Plains as it is now.  Old Esso maps always showed the names of toll road interchanges as well as numbers.  It is interesting to see some of the changes from old till now.

Many of the original names are still used internally. I know Exit 39 is "State Fair"  and Exit 34A is "Collamer" .

[vdeane]

Yikes, traffic was worse than I've ever seen it before today.  I-490 was backed up approaching the toll barrier as if it was rush hour, then the Thruway was congested enough to feel like I-95 all the way to Waterloo.  Then the section east of Utica was driving like the section between Rochester-Syracuse normally does after a holiday.  To top it off, it was stop and go all the way from Schenectady to Albany because of a wreck; it took half an hour just to get from one end of the service plaza to the other.  What was normally a 3.5 hour drive took 4.5 instead!

What's really weird is that normally the peak direction after a holiday is westbound, not eastbound, especially in the summer as people head home from the Finger Lakes (Rochester and Buffalo naturally have more pull than Syracuse).  Traffic also isn't usually an issue once you get significantly east of Syracuse, but today it was.  What the heck was going on?  It's not normally fun at the end of a summer holiday, but this was way, way worse than normal even for that.  It was carmageddon!  I hope this isn't a new normal.

[webny99]

Yikes, traffic was worse than I've ever seen it before today.  I-490 was backed up approaching the toll barrier as if it was rush hour, then the Thruway was congested enough to feel like I-95 all the way to Waterloo.

Around noon (IIRC?) there was an incident just east of the I-490 on-ramp, causing eastbound to back up from there all the way back past NY 64. When the incident cleared up, the backlog of traffic would have started to flow, which would have filled the entire road for quite a while. Maybe you got caught in the thick of that.

What's really weird is that normally the peak direction after a holiday is westbound, not eastbound, especially in the summer as people head home from the Finger Lakes (Rochester and Buffalo naturally have more pull than Syracuse). Traffic also isn't usually an issue once you get significantly east of Syracuse, but today it was.  What the heck was going on?  It's not normally fun at the end of a summer holiday, but this was way, way worse than normal even for that. It was carmageddon! I hope this isn't a new normal.

I can only speak for the area I covered, which was from Rochester to the Canadian border and back. All three border crossings into the US were crazy backed up, worse than any time in recent memory. Lewiston was backed up onto ON 405! by 10AM, which is basically unheard of. That volume of traffic flowing through the border certainly feeds the eastbound Thruway. I'd imagine a lot of the New England and Jersey plates I saw were going to be on the Thruway at least until Syracuse, if not further east.

I would definitely confirm that westbound is the peak direction between Syracuse and Rochester, but it seems to be closer - maybe even a true toss-up - as to which is busier between LeRoy and Buffalo. The latter stretch was certainly busy yesterday, but bearable; we managed to get ahead of a long string of trucks early on, while a big wave of traffic downstream from us generally kept moving at 80 mph or better.

[vdeane]

Around noon (IIRC?) there was an incident just east of the I-490 on-ramp, causing eastbound to back up from there all the way back past NY 64. When the incident cleared up, the backlog of traffic would have started to flow, which would have filled the entire road for quite a while. Maybe you got caught in the thick of that.

That explains a LOT.  I left my parents around 12:25, and it's only 15 or so minutes to the Thruway from there.  Traffic was like one giant wolf pack that never broke up.

[MASTERNC]

Yikes, traffic was worse than I've ever seen it before today.  I-490 was backed up approaching the toll barrier as if it was rush hour, then the Thruway was congested enough to feel like I-95 all the way to Waterloo.

Around noon (IIRC?) there was an incident just east of the I-490 on-ramp, causing eastbound to back up from there all the way back past NY 64. When the incident cleared up, the backlog of traffic would have started to flow, which would have filled the entire road for quite a while. Maybe you got caught in the thick of that.

My uncle said someone lost their boat east of Batavia while he was heading in that direction yesterday - maybe that is what he meant.

[webny99]

Funny, I have no idea what actually happened, but based on Google Maps live traffic alone, I figured it was a pretty good assumption that the left two eastbound lanes were blocked somewhere between the I-490 on-ramp and the Seneca Service Area.

(The backups would have been reversed - much worse on I-490, much better on the Thruway - if the incident had been on the right).

[roadman65]

Back to the Thruway, Exit 8 was considered to be the Elmsford exit and not White Plains as it is now.  Old Esso maps always showed the names of toll road interchanges as well as numbers.  It is interesting to see some of the changes from old till now.

Many of the original names are still used internally. I know Exit 39 is "State Fair"  and Exit 34A is "Collamer" .

Probably only in paperwork. Not in the field it's signed White Plains and Rye.

[Kniwt]

The New York Times has a new report on the continuing controversy over the Thruway segment that passes through the Seneca Nation. No breaking news, but a good roundup of the history and (weak) prospects for a resolution anytime soon.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/17/nyregion/highway-casino-seneca-ny.html

If ever you wanted a tangible symbol of the execrable relationship between Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo and New York's largest Native American tribe, it is the three miles of cracked, rutted and completely rotten highway running through this lakeside reservation.

The highway, Interstate 90, is so deteriorated that federal authorities have issued warnings and local drivers have blown tires and tie rods.

... Everyone agrees that the highway, which is part of the New York Thruway system but within the tribal lands of the Seneca Nation, needs to be repaired. But the reason for the lack of new asphalt is considerably more complicated, touching on decades-old grievances between the state and the Senecas; accusations of bad faith on both sides; and a legal battle over casino revenue.

[webny99]

Interesting. I just drove that stretch this past weekend, and didn't feel comfortable going much more than about 65 mph; cruising at the usual 77 mph or so was not even a possibility. The left lanes are a bit better than the right lanes, but both are downright terrible, especially for a toll road.

My bet is on the state eventually moving in there and getting the repaving done without an agreement.

[Rothman]

No.  The State absolutely will not do it without an agreement.

State will end up giving in to the Senecas in the end.

[webny99]

No.  The State absolutely will not do it without an agreement.

State will end up giving in to the Senecas in the end.

It was discussed as an option in the article, but I guess that should be taken with a grain of salt.

I guess I'm not sure what "giving in to the Senecas" means in this context.
Eventually, something will have to be done with the Thruway, but right now it sounds like neither side is willing to budge.

[Beltway]

No.  The State absolutely will not do it without an agreement.  State will end up giving in to the Senecas in the end.

It was discussed as an option in the article, but I guess that should be taken with a grain of salt.
I guess I'm not sure what "giving in to the Senecas" means in this context.
Eventually, something will have to be done with the Thruway, but right now it sounds like neither side is willing to budge.

Is any new right-of-way needed?  If not, I don't see where they would have any say in the matter.  The Thruway has a very wide right-of-way, enough to handle a 6-lane widening project.

[kalvado]

No.  The State absolutely will not do it without an agreement.  State will end up giving in to the Senecas in the end.

It was discussed as an option in the article, but I guess that should be taken with a grain of salt.
I guess I'm not sure what "giving in to the Senecas" means in this context.
Eventually, something will have to be done with the Thruway, but right now it sounds like neither side is willing to budge.

Is any new right-of-way needed?  If not, I don't see where they would have any say in the matter.  The Thruway has a very wide right-of-way, enough to handle a 6-lane widening project.

You realize this is a territory of sovereign nation (aka reservation), and the tribe retained land ownership, granting only easement for the road?
Even validity of that easement is being disputed by Senecas...

[Beltway]

Is any new right-of-way needed?  If not, I don't see where they would have any say in the matter.  The Thruway has a very wide right-of-way, enough to handle a 6-lane widening project.

You realize this is a territory of sovereign nation (aka reservation), and the tribe retained land ownership, granting only easement for the road?  Even validity of that easement is being disputed by Senecas...

What exactly does that mean?   That they could claim ownership of the highway and use it for whatever purpose they want?