https://abc7news.com/car-goes-airborne-in-crash-caught-on-camera-in-socal/5929687/
Those damn Duke Boys were at it again.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 19, 2020, 01:45:03 PM
Those damn Duke Boys were at it again.
From the TV report, it sounds more like Daisy got into the 'shine stash! :biggrin:
I hope they pressed the ZR button on the back of their joy-con :-D :-D
The story says she was drunk when she hit the roundabout at 100 MPH. Makes sense to me.
Roundabouts are definitely a "traffic-calming" device.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 19, 2020, 06:39:03 PM
The story says she was drunk when she hit the roundabout at 100 MPH. Makes sense to me.
Wonder if she will sue like that wacked out woman in Reading, PA when surveillance captured the moment that she fell into the fountain in a local mall there while texting on her phone?
Quote from: Concrete Bob on February 19, 2020, 09:07:21 PM
Roundabouts are definitely a "traffic-calming" device.
Certainly slowed that car down or "calmed" it.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 19, 2020, 10:26:19 PM
Quote from: Concrete Bob on February 19, 2020, 09:07:21 PM
Roundabouts are definitely a "traffic-calming" device.
Certainly slowed that car down or “calmed” it.
Yeah, blame the roundabout when someone's doing travelling at Interstate speeds on a residential two-lane road. Stop lines at a roundaboutish-type circle are kind of perplexing, though I might roll through the stop line or brake suddenly if I didn't see a stop sign to complement it.
It's hard to hit something larger than a bug at 100 mph and walk/stagger away from a wreck. Looks more like 60-70 mph, and it looks like it did its job (although also inadvertently damaging another parked car).
+ 135 point Insane Jump
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 19, 2020, 06:39:03 PM
The story says she was drunk when she hit the roundabout at 100 MPH. Makes sense to me.
characteristics of drunk drivers is often that they are travelling at inconsistent speeds, but also (usually) below the limit. Sometimes far below the limit. I don't usually associate excessive speed with drunk driving.
Quote from: jakeroot on February 19, 2020, 11:26:51 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 19, 2020, 06:39:03 PM
The story says she was drunk when she hit the roundabout at 100 MPH. Makes sense to me.
characteristics of drunk drivers is often that they are travelling at inconsistent speeds, but also (usually) below the limit. Sometimes far below the limit. I don't usually associate excessive speed with drunk driving.
All the reports I've seen said she was driving under the influence. That's a broad category that doesn't always mean alcohol. The speed and the way she was described by witnesses as acting when she got out of the car point to being under the influence of some other drug(s).
Quote from: Concrete Bob on February 19, 2020, 09:07:21 PM
Roundabouts are definitely a "traffic-calming" device.
As opposed to a
"driver calming" device!!!!! :colorful:
Did anyone else expected to see a video of a crane moving a car over roundabout - and hoping, maybe, for a helicopter lifting a car?
Quote from: kalvado on February 20, 2020, 05:14:50 PM
Did anyone else expected to see a video of a crane moving a car over roundabout - and hoping, maybe, for a helicopter lifting a car?
I too am not a fan of "literally".
That was such an amazing thing to see!
Quote from: jakeroot on February 19, 2020, 11:26:51 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 19, 2020, 06:39:03 PM
The story says she was drunk when she hit the roundabout at 100 MPH. Makes sense to me.
characteristics of drunk drivers is often that they are travelling at inconsistent speeds, but also (usually) below the limit. Sometimes far below the limit. I don't usually associate excessive speed with drunk driving.
Speeds go both ways with being drunk, and I would venture to say most drunk driving accidents occur due to excessive speed (thus, the tendency for severe damage and injuries, especially to the innocent victim). If drunks tended to drive slower than normal, and thus caused less damage and injuries to the victims, there wouldn't be as much attention given to the subject.
An old CHP friend of mine once said that the pattern is generally low-speed = high BAC, high-speed = low BAC. That is to say, the people driving around between .08-.16 are the ones getting into the 100 MPH crashes. The ones driving on the wrong side of the freeway at 45 MPH are more likely to blow a .20 than a .10.
IIRC, last year a car plowed through the roundabout at the junction of CA 12 and CA 113 west of Rio Vista -- but didn't get airborne in the process (mostly plants inside the circle). I still have serious doubts about the efficacy of roundabouts on higher-speed rural routes, particularly interregional connectors hosting high volumes of commercial traffic including semis! They're still pondering a roundabout at the junction of CA 25 and CA 156 near Hollister; the former is a major commute route and the latter a commercial artery between the San Joaquin Valley and Monterey Peninsula/Salinas. A roundabout there is a continuous series of incidents waiting to happen!
Quote from: sparker on February 22, 2020, 03:24:50 AM
IIRC, last year a car plowed through the roundabout at the junction of CA 12 and CA 113 west of Rio Vista -- but didn't get airborne in the process (mostly plants inside the circle). I still have serious doubts about the efficacy of roundabouts on higher-speed rural routes, particularly interregional connectors hosting high volumes of commercial traffic including semis! They're still pondering a roundabout at the junction of CA 25 and CA 156 near Hollister; the former is a major commute route and the latter a commercial artery between the San Joaquin Valley and Monterey Peninsula/Salinas. A roundabout there is a continuous series of incidents waiting to happen!
Both driver and passenger were killed when they hit the central barrier. Covered in the "Roundabouts" thread:
Quote from: tradephoric on September 20, 2019, 05:53:09 PM
An elderly couple was killed after their Toyota Prius crashed into the concrete roundabout at Highway 12 and 113 near Suisun City, California. Retaining walls in the the central islands of roundabouts... specifically roundabouts in rural/suburban locations... doesn't seem necessary.
(https://www.dailyrepublic.com/files/2019/09/20-hwy-12_113-intersection.jpg)
Crash at Highways 12/113 roundabout leaves 2 dead
https://www.dailyrepublic.com/all-dr-news/solano-news/suisun-city/crash-at-highways-12-113-roundabout-leaves-2-dead/comment-page-1/
I tend to be more approving of roundabouts, but having a tall concrete barrier in the center is unnecessarily dangerous. I understand the attempt to discourage those few that will straight-line the roundabout, but that's just adding risk, not reducing it.
Quote from: jakeroot on February 22, 2020, 04:06:49 AM
Quote from: sparker on February 22, 2020, 03:24:50 AM
IIRC, last year a car plowed through the roundabout at the junction of CA 12 and CA 113 west of Rio Vista -- but didn't get airborne in the process (mostly plants inside the circle). I still have serious doubts about the efficacy of roundabouts on higher-speed rural routes, particularly interregional connectors hosting high volumes of commercial traffic including semis! They're still pondering a roundabout at the junction of CA 25 and CA 156 near Hollister; the former is a major commute route and the latter a commercial artery between the San Joaquin Valley and Monterey Peninsula/Salinas. A roundabout there is a continuous series of incidents waiting to happen!
Both driver and passenger were killed when they hit the central barrier. Covered in the "Roundabouts" thread:
Quote from: tradephoric on September 20, 2019, 05:53:09 PM
An elderly couple was killed after their Toyota Prius crashed into the concrete roundabout at Highway 12 and 113 near Suisun City, California. Retaining walls in the the central islands of roundabouts... specifically roundabouts in rural/suburban locations... doesn't seem necessary.
(https://www.dailyrepublic.com/files/2019/09/20-hwy-12_113-intersection.jpg)
Crash at Highways 12/113 roundabout leaves 2 dead
https://www.dailyrepublic.com/all-dr-news/solano-news/suisun-city/crash-at-highways-12-113-roundabout-leaves-2-dead/comment-page-1/
When was that roundabout put in? I don't recall it being there when I drove CA 113 last year. Seems like that was probably an ill advised move with the Safety Corridor on 12 and low traffic count on 113.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 22, 2020, 08:57:30 AM
Seems like that was probably an ill advised move with the Safety Corridor on 12 and low traffic count on 113.
One of the greatest understatements of the year!
Quote from: formulanone on February 22, 2020, 08:33:47 AM
I tend to be more approving of roundabouts, but having a tall concrete barrier in the center is unnecessarily dangerous. I understand the attempt to discourage those few that will straight-line the roundabout, but that's just adding risk, not reducing it.
I'll refrain from repeating my opinion here; you should read pp 13-14
in this PDF (http://teachamerica.com/RAB14/RAB14papers/RAB14ppr045_Brilon.pdf) for a read-up on central island design, and then drop a line in the roundabout thread if interested.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 22, 2020, 08:57:30 AM
When was that roundabout put in? I don't recall it being there when I drove CA 113 last year. Seems like that was probably an ill advised move with the Safety Corridor on 12 and low traffic count on 113.
Last summer, as far as I can tell. The crash occurred mid-September, with the curbing and central island being the only things complete by that point (in addition to any utility work, I presume).
^^^^^^^^^^^^
And I'll stand by my opinion that while roundabouts may be appropriate for lower-speed urban/suburban applications, deploying them along high-speed rural facilities is at best questionable and at worst dangerous. CA 12/113 certainly needed improvement, but channelization and improvement of lines of sight would have been a more judicious approach rather than applying the seeming method du jour of Caltrans -- when in doubt, put in a roundabout (hey, that rhymes!).:D Maybe they're just tired of maintaining the electronics required for a signalized installation. In any case, it seems to be a case of the "garbage can" syndrome -- a favored solution looking for a place to be applied.
Quote from: sparker on February 23, 2020, 09:57:15 PM
^^^^^^^^^^^^
And I'll stand by my opinion that while roundabouts may be appropriate for lower-speed urban/suburban applications, deploying them along high-speed rural facilities is at best questionable and at worst dangerous. CA 12/113 certainly needed improvement, but channelization and improvement of lines of sight would have been a more judicious approach rather than applying the seeming method du jour of Caltrans -- when in doubt, put in a roundabout (hey, that rhymes!).:D Maybe they're just tired of maintaining the electronics required for a signalized installation. In any case, it seems to be a case of the "garbage can" syndrome -- a favored solution looking for a place to be applied.
I feel like roundabouts and DDIs are both favored solutions looking for places to be applied, with the difference being that DDIs actually have a good crash record (from what I've heard at least ... would appreciate some hard data on the matter at some point). Roundabouts seem to be a favorite among several states (and/or jurisdictions within), particularly Wisconsin, Washington State, Florida, Colorado, Kansas, Maryland, and others. IIRC, Wisconsin even had (has?) a protocol that required roundabouts be the primary alternative design for upgraded intersections, with signals and four-way stops needing further reasoning/explanation to implement (
DaBigE probably knows best).
^^^^^^^^^^^
The fact that jakeroot recognizes that roundabouts have functionally become default installations in some jurisdictions is in itself promising -- but knowing that fact may not lead to recognition of that phenomenon as a potential problem. When it comes to such things, each situation -- ideally when it comes to the safety of the driving public -- needs to be assessed as a unique set of circumstances with singular characteristics. Default designs and the deployment of such on the whims of agency planners do no favors to the public. And recognition of the difference between appropriate design for rural vs. urban situations should be "Reality 101" within both the academic and administrative realms. "One size fits all" is simply an exercise in intellectual laziness (pardon me, but that's one of my lifelong pet peeves!).
I'll venture an opinion here -- anyone looking to enter public service within any agency engaged in planning or regulation owes it to themselves and the public they purport to serve by obtaining and reading John Kingdon's seminal 1984 tome Agendas, Alternatives, and Public Policies; try to get the '95 2nd edition, although the original remains worthwhile. Throws a lot of light regarding how policies are initiated and then evolve in the legislative and administrative arenas.
Quote from: jakeroot on February 23, 2020, 10:05:43 PM
Quote from: sparker on February 23, 2020, 09:57:15 PM
^^^^^^^^^^^^
And I'll stand by my opinion that while roundabouts may be appropriate for lower-speed urban/suburban applications, deploying them along high-speed rural facilities is at best questionable and at worst dangerous. CA 12/113 certainly needed improvement, but channelization and improvement of lines of sight would have been a more judicious approach rather than applying the seeming method du jour of Caltrans -- when in doubt, put in a roundabout (hey, that rhymes!).:D Maybe they're just tired of maintaining the electronics required for a signalized installation. In any case, it seems to be a case of the "garbage can" syndrome -- a favored solution looking for a place to be applied.
I feel like roundabouts and DDIs are both favored solutions looking for places to be applied, with the difference being that DDIs actually have a good crash record (from what I've heard at least ... would appreciate some hard data on the matter at some point). Roundabouts seem to be a favorite among several states (and/or jurisdictions within), particularly Wisconsin, Washington State, Florida, Colorado, Kansas, Maryland, and others. IIRC, Wisconsin even had (has?) a protocol that required roundabouts be the primary alternative design for upgraded intersections, with signals and four-way stops needing further reasoning/explanation to implement (DaBigE probably knows best).
Saying "primary alternative" is dangerous. As much as some would like to believe, roundabouts are
not the default alternative to have to be otherwise disproven. Wisconsin's ICE policy is to consider (Read: evaluate) the feasibility of a roundabout whenever a traffic signal is proposed, among a list of other alternatives. The viability of any intersection control alternative is reviewed based on construction and maintenance costs, ROW acquisition, environmental impacts (wetlands), expected operations/LOS, oversized vehicle routing, and crash mitigation potential.
If a traffic signal is being considered, it typically means a TWSC or AWSC has failed, either operationally (volume) or due to safety issues. The typical progression is TWSC -> AWSC (which is
supposed to be a temporary/interim solution per DOT policy -> traffic signal/roundabout/DDI/SPI -> grade separated intersection. I've been around the process long enough to not only have seen many roundabouts eliminated from consideration as part of this process, as I personally have completed a report recommending something other than a roundabout.
It's been a while since I've had to do one there, but IIRC, MnDOT has a similar procedure as well.
Judging from the tracks I saw in the snow on Thursday, it appears someone westbound on 96th Street at Hazel Dell Parkway in Carmel, IN tried to emulate this Cali driver very recently. No deviation from a straight line whatsoever, just up and over the roundabout's median.