http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2015/03/03/Drug-cartel-violence-escalating-in-Mexican-state-of-Tamaulipas/3171425397021/
Blockades were even set up on the Reynosa-Matamoros highway. It didn't say, but I'm guessing on the libre. This is the kind of stuff that makes me nervous about visiting Mexico.
Drug cartels seem way worse than the street gangs in our cities. The street gang thugs seem to only care when a person is either in a rival gang or wronged them in some way*; in drug cartels, it looks like everyone, including innocent victims, is at risk.
That being said, I'd probably feel much safer in some of the worst areas of some of the worst cities in our country versus the worst cities in Mexico. Still, I wouldn't be too nervous about it and you shouldn't cancel your trip to Mexico - but I would be more careful.
*At night though, it seems like everyone is fair game
Thanks, Obama!
Quote from: Zeffy on March 17, 2015, 08:46:04 PM
Drug cartels seem way worse than the street gangs in our cities. The street gang thugs seem to only care when a person is either in a rival gang or wronged them in some way*; in drug cartels, it looks like everyone, including innocent victims, is at risk.
That being said, I'd probably feel much safer in some of the worst areas of some of the worst cities in our country versus the worst cities in Mexico. Still, I wouldn't be too nervous about it and you shouldn't cancel your trip to Mexico - but I would be more careful.
*At night though, it seems like everyone is fair game
Well the good news is that I upgraded from a 95 Neon to an 05 Neon. The new Neon I got is a pretty nice car. I don't plan on driving through Tamaulipas anyways (except bypassing Nuevo Laredo on my way to Monterrey). I was reading some other news articles and the leader of the Los Zetas cartel was arrested 2 weeks ago somewhere in Nuevo Leon. That might be some of the reasons it is so violent in Tampaulipas right now.
Idk if appropriate but...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftapatalk.imageshack.com%2Fv2%2F15%2F03%2F17%2Ff9496adcbfc43e1e27755b507011a13b.jpg&hash=56a9e142e219870983d9cb3296fb970ebac325ba)
Delete if you must
Another big reason to repeal the Drug War™ - these thugs are threatening the entire Mexican federal government and should they take over, I can easily see the USA having to take military action in the face of potentially 10s of millions of refugees flooding northward.
The cartels already essentially run some of their states.
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on March 18, 2015, 11:37:02 AM
Another big reason to repeal the Drug War™ - these thugs are threatening the entire Mexican federal government and should they take over, I can easily see the USA having to take military action in the face of potentially 10s of millions of refugees flooding northward.
The cartels already essentially run some of their states.
Mike
Bingo! As more states legalize weed and allow growing it, I would urge everyone to grow all they can even if they don't smoke it. Give it away and dry up the funds going to the cartels and greedhead growers. Make the stuff as worthless as rutabagas from a home garden!
Rick
Quote from: nexus73 on March 18, 2015, 07:01:28 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on March 18, 2015, 11:37:02 AM
Another big reason to repeal the Drug War™ - these thugs are threatening the entire Mexican federal government and should they take over, I can easily see the USA having to take military action in the face of potentially 10s of millions of refugees flooding northward.
The cartels already essentially run some of their states.
Mike
Bingo! As more states legalize weed and allow growing it, I would urge everyone to grow all they can even if they don't smoke it. Give it away and dry up the funds going to the cartels and greedhead growers. Make the stuff as worthless as rutabagas from a home garden!
Rick
If you start growing I would be more than happy to receive some
It's the US that's pushing Mexico into the situation they're in with this drug War™. I'm with Mike on this one. The only thing that it gets us nowadays is jobs for government officials (like the border patrol putting checkpoints well into AZ, NM, TX and CA.
Visiting tourists are not the ones at risk. Very seldomly, an innocent traveler will end up a victim, but that is quite far from the norm. High-profile, high-risk acts of violence only make good business sense when the payoff is big enough to match it. That is, fighting between or within cartels or fighting against the authorities. Joe Schmoe driving down the highway is (1) unknown to the criminals, (2) not necessarily rich or well connected, (3) not involved in organized crime or fighting against it, (4) as inconspicuous as any other driver unless he happens to be in an $85,000 SUV, (5) likely to be carrying a cell phone.
The vast majority of people killed in the drug violence in Mexico are criminals, most of the rest are police or political figures. The same is true of Americans in Mexico: most of them were not innocent, but were involved in criminal activities.
Having said all of that, though, Tamaulipas has seen an increase in violence over the last year or so. It isn't exactly breaking news. If you go onto Mexican travel forums like mexconnect, you'll find plenty of advice to avoid that region when traveling cross-country. The people on those boards, frankly, do a better job than mainstream media of monitoring the situation and offering worthwhile advice. They live there, read and watch the local and international media, know the lay of the land, are realistic rather than sensational in their estimations.
Always, always dig beneath the surface of these news stories.
Specifically related to the story at hand, shootouts occur every several months in that region, and they have for several years now. I've personally plotted the data for Nuevo Laredo, for example, and found that overall violent crime remains low most of time but gets interrupted by occasional bursts of violence. I imagine Reynosa is similar in that regard.
Highway checkpoints are common. I've personally encountered a handful of them between Nuevo Laredo and Monterrey. Cartels have been confronting each other in the area for so long now, that this incident didn't even prompt any special messages from the US Consulate in either Nuevo Laredo or Monterrey to US citizens. I just checked.
This is typical. Business as usual.
Quote from: SSOWorld on March 18, 2015, 09:29:44 PM
It's the US that's pushing Mexico into the situation they're in with this drug War™. I'm with Mike on this one. The only thing that it gets us nowadays is jobs for government officials (like the border patrol putting checkpoints well into AZ, NM, TX and CA.
That makes three of us. It also gets prison guards and police officers jobs as they are the ones who arrest and watch over the people we put away during this Endless, Worthless, Pointless Drug War. It's high time we all just went the Colorado route and stopped this madness of Prohibition.
"This isn't a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom" - Bill Hicks
The increase in drug-related violence in Mexico since 2006 is due in part to a reduction in top-down corruption. Years ago, the government in Mexico was a good deal more more centralized than it is now, the same political party held national office for 71 years straight, and government corruption was commonplace. In those days, government officials helped keep the peace between drug cartels because they (1) had a nationwide, top-down view of thinhs, and (2) preferred the bribes over serving justice.
In 2000, a new political party won the presidency. It is a less big-government, less centrist, and more religious political party than the one before it. Its name means "Political Action Party", and two of the issues in Mexico that it saw needed "action" were the drug trade and political corruption. With jurisdictions now divided between political parties and a changeover in key political staff, the government now had less of a handle on the drug industry nationwide. With a focus on eliminating corruption, political figures were made to give the cartels no leash rather than a short leash. With a focus on ridding the nation of the drug cartels rather than permitting them as an unavoidable part of the Mexican landscape the stakes became high and made the cartels dig their heels in deep to stand their ground.
The result of all this good intention: more volatility in the drug industry, less ability by the government to control it, ever higher stakes for the cartels. Higher stakes mean that the cartels now sometimes engage in high-profile acts of violence that were more or less unheard of fifteen years ago. Higher stakes mean they fight amongst themselves and against the police every time a key player is taken out, as a power struggle for position and territory. Both higher stakes and less government control mean cartels are now moving out of their traditional arenas, both to new geographical areas and new ways of doing business. Less control means the government is unable to keep cartels' territories separated geographically, leading to more common turf wars.
It's a dire situation: the government tackling a force that has more money, more guns, and more at stake than it does. The Mexican people got so frustrated with it that the president who launched the war on drugs, Felipe Calderon Hinojosa, lost the election to the previous party. The experiment was seen to have failed, that the PRI was the party who knew how to handle the drug cartels, as they had proven for decades. The people preferred corruption over bloodshed.
Interestingly, one of the ministry partners I work with was going for a return to corruption at the 2012 elections. Running a children's home, she was more or less left alone to run things as she saw fit, so long as her money was paid to the right officials. Increasingly over the last six or eight years, though, the government had been taking a more hands-on, "honest" approach, and that had meant more hoops to jump through (costing money), more documents to be filed (costing money), more detailed business records (more money and/or time away from actually helping people), and therefore less ability to actually house, feed, mentor, and otherwise help poor children. It was to the point that the roof over her living quarters was crumbling over her bed last year when we went down to demolish it; the reason it had gotten so bad was that they didn't have the money available to replace it. All that honesty and reduction in corruption had led to financial crisis.
When the PRI regained control of both federal and state government a few years ago, she was hopeful that things would return to a more "look the other way as long as your money is paid" business model. Unfortunately, that has not been the case. What's been done has not since been undone. I imagine the same is true of the drug industry: what has been done can/will not be undone, and the damage is done. Meanwhile, much of the drug cartel activity had moved to Central America, where the government has remained more hands-off towards them. Unfortunately, they've brought their violent ways with them, which is part of the reason our southern border has been seeing fleeting children from those nations.
Thank you kphoger for that illuminating story of Mexican political ways and how they affected the cartels. That was a good one!
Who would have thought corruption made for a more peaceful situation than honesty?
Rick
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5562648.
Not really sure how Vigilantes from Mexico are supposed to fight the drug war or end corruption in Mexico. But this other group may have a role in escalating the drug war.
http://www.latimes.com/world/mexico-americas/la-fg-mexico-vigilantes-20140602-story.html.
I say verify first and don't trust anytime you hear the phrase Vigilante fighting the drug cartels in Mexico.
Quote from: Brandon on March 19, 2015, 06:50:41 AM
Quote from: SSOWorld on March 18, 2015, 09:29:44 PM
It's the US that's pushing Mexico into the situation they're in with this drug War™. I'm with Mike on this one. The only thing that it gets us nowadays is jobs for government officials (like the border patrol putting checkpoints well into AZ, NM, TX and CA.
That makes three of us. It also gets prison guards and police officers jobs as they are the ones who arrest and watch over the people we put away during this Endless, Worthless, Pointless Drug War. It's high time we all just went the Colorado route and stopped this madness of Prohibition.
Four of us. Cigarettes remain legal despite being confirmed as carcinogenic. Why? Lobbying by Big Tobacco. How would the gangs in the streets operate if drugs were legal? They couldn't. Street gangs are all about the $$$$. Their main source of income, of course, is drugs, along with prostitution. The drug war is a colossal failure. Why am I treated as a criminal for smoking pot? The health benefits of marijuana are documented. What's the hold up? The money that could be made from legalizing at most marijuana would be a boon to most cities and states. The only thing that I'd be worried about is driving while high - but those penalties should be treated just like driving under the influence. People say "think about the children" (cough our own governor...) but the fact of the matter is kids in all neighborhoods, of all races, have access to drugs as early as around 7th grade, if not earlier. Proper education on the ill effects of these drugs should be the course of action here.
Cartelistas are used to having power, prestige, and boat loads of money. Legalize drugs, and they are not likely to get a job pumping gas or selling furniture. That's assuming anybody would even hire them, considering their criminal record. Legalizing drugs does not magically make violence go away. It just redirects it.
Quote from: kphoger on March 19, 2015, 02:25:15 PM
Cartelistas are used to having power, prestige, and boat loads of money. Legalize drugs, and they are not likely to get a job pumping gas or selling furniture. That's assuming anybody would even hire them, considering their criminal record. Legalizing drugs does not magically make violence go away. It just redirects it.
The Sicilian criminal gangs were just preying on the immigrants from Italy at the start. Along came Prohibition. What had been a low rent group turned into a powerful criminal syndicate. Prohibition was repealed but the mafias buoyed by the money they made during that era set them up to become a fearsome force that took decades to knock down.
Given that The War On Some Drugs has gone on for far longer than Prohibition, those Mexican cartels have built up even vaster reserves of money, manpower and weapons to move forward with once MJ is legalized. They will need to be dealt with but at least cutting off a current income stream which is in the billions will make a good start.
Rick
Update:
For some reason, I didn't realize that there was a U.S. consulate in Matamoros. That agency had issued an advisory back on February 4. That advisory stated that, while armed convoys of cartel members "are not necessarily unusual" in the area, the level of violence has spiked. No mention was made of the highway to Monterrey, just local incidents in Matamoros. I was just talking to a friend and ministry associate who lives in McAllen, and he said that the general opinion in the area is still to avoid crossing the border near Matamoros. This kind of disappointed me, as he was supposed to have driven down to Parras (Coah) to discuss our upcoming May trip with the gentleman we'll be working with, but instead he has stayed in Texas.
Quote from: nexus73 on March 18, 2015, 07:01:28 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on March 18, 2015, 11:37:02 AM
Another big reason to repeal the Drug War™ - these thugs are threatening the entire Mexican federal government and should they take over, I can easily see the USA having to take military action in the face of potentially 10s of millions of refugees flooding northward.
The cartels already essentially run some of their states.
Mike
Bingo! As more states legalize weed and allow growing it, I would urge everyone to grow all they can even if they don't smoke it. Give it away and dry up the funds going to the cartels and greedhead growers. Make the stuff as worthless as rutabagas from a home garden!
Rick
I disagree. I don't think we should legalize more illegal drugs. I'm even against legalizing marajuana. The biggest reason things seem to get out of control in Mexico is because of corruption. The cartels wouldn't have much of a chance to begin with if they (the police) would've never let it get started. The cartels bribe the cops and the cops just look the other way. Then when things get bad the military has to take over and then the violence starts. The Drug War in Mexico starts with ending corruption. I'm not too sure if Mexico will ever be able to end the war on corruption in their country and if they can't the Drug War will never end.
As I mentioned up-thread, cracking down on corruption has actually led to increased violence. The world is a very complex place.
Quote from: kphoger on March 28, 2015, 02:05:33 PM
As I mentioned up-thread, cracking down on corruption has actually led to increased violence. The world is a very complex place.
Thanks I was wondering about this you had articles of supposed "Vigilantes" fighting , killing and torturing drug cartel leaders in a few reports. And in others killing drug mules as part of a ploy to get political toughness in Mexico?
In other words alleged Vigilante groups escalated the Drug War for political reasons.
I know very little about the vigilante groups, other than that they are both an aid to the government in remote areas and also a risk due to possible double-crossing.
My main point about corruption was that its recent diminishing has led to a less stable relationship between cartels and the government, and that has in turn led to an increase in violence.
Wow! such a well thought out, thorough, and reasonable argument. I was particularly struck by your mention of douchenuggets; this is a perspective I had not heretofore considered.
Quote from: kphoger on April 01, 2015, 12:02:46 AM
Wow! such a well thought out, thorough, and reasonable argument. I was particularly struck by your mention of douchenuggets; this is a perspective I had not heretofore considered.
http://fusion.net/video/174081/cartel-land-documentary-shows-how-mexican-vigilantes-have-become-the-monster-they-intended-to-tame/
http://www.insightcrime.org/news-analysis/new-vigilante-groups-in-michoacan-mexico-resemble-predecessors
Part of this issue here is that the Vigilantes in Mexico claim that they are reducing corruption and Drug Trade and they say they have no trust the army and police in the Drug war. Here's a 2016 update. The vigilantes action against drug cartels are questionable for now.