Interstate 87 (NC-VA)

[Beltway]

As Ken Watanabe said so eloquently:
Let them fight.

"Ken Watanabe is a Japanese actor. To English-speaking audiences, he is known for playing tragic hero characters, such as General Tadamichi Kuribayashi in Letters from Iwo Jima and Lord Katsumoto Moritsugu in The Last Samurai, for which he was nominated for the Academy Award for Best Supporting Actor."

Do you know what happened after Kuribayashi's Last Stand?  Nearly all of his 20,000 some troops had been killed.  He committed seppuku.  He cut his guts out with a knife.

[Rothman]

Wikipedia says that probably wasn't the case.

[Beltway]

Wikipedia says that probably wasn't the case.

On 22 mar, Kuribayashi radioed "[w]e are still fighting.... The strength under my command is now about four hundred. Tanks are attacking us. The enemy suggested we surrender through loudspeaker, but our officers and men just laughed and paid no attention." On the next day, he sent Chichi Jima this final message, to be relayed on to Tokyo: "All officers of Chichi Jima, goodbye from Iwo". He reportedly committed ritual suicide, but his body was never found.

https://ww2db.com/person_bio.php?person_id=21

[hbelkins]

As Ken Watanabe said so eloquently:

Let them fight.

What, and actually allow a hot and heated discussion without some purple-text-typer getting all worked up and shutting it down? What do you think this is, M.T.R. or something? 

[sprjus4]

As Ken Watanabe said so eloquently:

Let them fight.

What, and actually allow a hot and heated discussion without some purple-text-typer getting all worked up and shutting it down? What do you think this is, M.T.R. or something? 

Oh it already got shot down. Just in a different forum.

[NE2]

[Beltway]

As Ken Watanabe said so eloquently:
Let them fight.

What, and actually allow a hot and heated discussion without some purple-text-typer getting all worked up and shutting it down? What do you think this is, M.T.R. or something? 

If Rothman is eagerly looking to see a fight, then he will likely be disappointed.

[sprjus4]

Interstates don't run the most direct routes for reasons. They service the communities along the way. North Carolina would have far less potential with a NC 11 general routing rather than US 17.

I'm not trying to get into this debate again. It's the same thing - 25 miles slower, we get it. I don't think North Carolina intends on re-routing I-87, and I don't intend on trying to debate this.

I will mention however, and this is for Beltway also, after reviewing the US 17 Feasibility Study, https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/us-17-feasibility-study/Documents/final-feasibility-report.pdf, it's mentioned several times the real goal of the project is to connect eastern NC to Norfolk and eastern NC to Raleigh, to promote economic development in eastern NC, and to improve and make US 17 a safer highway, and better connectivity to other cities from eastern NC. A study done in 2013 titled the "US 17 Economic Impact Study" indicates one reason for the upgrades could be for opportunities to divert traffic off of I-95, however that's referring to US 17 as opposed to I-95, not the connection to I-95 South.

I think the real focus isn't about directly connecting Raleigh / I-95 to Norfolk, but rather to connect the towns in between two the big cities via interstate, to get more economic growth. At the same time however, it would provide an interstate option between the two areas.

However, the Hampton Roads Regional Freight Study, https://www.hrtpo.org/uploads/docs/Regional%20Freight%20Study%20Update%202017%20Update%20-%20FINAL%28new%29.pdf, in 2017 indicated that a future project should be to provide a limited-access connection to I-95 South. They mentioned both US 58 and I-87 as options, and also indicated that I-87 would "provide a more direct limited-access connection for people and freight from Hampton Roads to Southbound I-95 and the Raleigh-Durham area. The Port of Virginia and freight stakeholders in the region have stated that they find tremendous value in this potential future connection." It would also be tremendously cheaper for Virginia to upgrade US 17 into a freeway because it's already fully limited-access and interstate-grade and would require a few rural interchanges. US 58 would require constructing around 20 miles of new location segments and upgrading 30 miles of non-limited-access highway. Also, the Franklin bypass would require significant improvements, along with the Emporia bypass, if not bypassed fully themselves.

I think it's Virginia essentially saying, we don't feel like spending money on upgrading US 58, so we'll use I-87 as our "southern interstate link" despite it being longer. They will not promote that fact though.

[NE2]

However, the Hampton Roads Regional Freight Study, https://www.hrtpo.org/uploads/docs/Regional%20Freight%20Study%20Update%202017%20Update%20-%20FINAL%28new%29.pdf, in 2017 indicated that a future project should be to provide a limited-access connection to I-95 South. They mentioned both US 58 and I-87 as options, and also indicated that I-87 would "provide a more direct limited-access connection for people and freight from Hampton Roads to Southbound I-95 and the Raleigh-Durham area."

They're liars or idiots.

[froggie]

^^ Safe to say that sprjus4 missed the joke/reference...

[sprjus4]

^^ Safe to say that sprjus4 missed the joke/reference...

Actually, no, I did get it, I didn't comment on it. What's your issue anyway?

[sprjus4]

However, the Hampton Roads Regional Freight Study, https://www.hrtpo.org/uploads/docs/Regional%20Freight%20Study%20Update%202017%20Update%20-%20FINAL%28new%29.pdf, in 2017 indicated that a future project should be to provide a limited-access connection to I-95 South. They mentioned both US 58 and I-87 as options, and also indicated that I-87 would "provide a more direct limited-access connection for people and freight from Hampton Roads to Southbound I-95 and the Raleigh-Durham area."

They're liars or idiots.

Likely idiots. They see it for what is it - an interstate to the south. They don't see the numbers though.

[Beltway]

However, the Hampton Roads Regional Freight Study, https://www.hrtpo.org/uploads/docs/Regional%20Freight%20Study%20Update%202017%20Update%20-%20FINAL%28new%29.pdf, in 2017 indicated

NO!  Not the conclusion of the study. 
Look who they cited for making the quoted italicized fragment below --
"The Regional Transportation Alliance (RTA) — which is a coalition of businesses in the Raleigh-Durham area advocating for transportation initiatives and policy ..."

that a future project should be to provide a limited-access connection to I-95 South. They mentioned both US 58 and I-87 as options, and also indicated that I-87 would "provide a more direct limited-access connection for people and freight from Hampton Roads to Southbound I-95 and the Raleigh-Durham area. The Port of Virginia and freight stakeholders in the region have stated that they find tremendous value in this potential future connection."

You acknowledged in your post that it was 25 miles longer than the current route of I-95 and US-58.

The RTA is a business advocacy group, and is ignorant of engineering and trucking when they make a statement like that.  Large trucks get about 4 miles per gallon of fuel, and there is no way that truck drivers and trucking companies could consider it anything but much less direct.

[sprjus4]

However, the Hampton Roads Regional Freight Study, https://www.hrtpo.org/uploads/docs/Regional%20Freight%20Study%20Update%202017%20Update%20-%20FINAL%28new%29.pdf, in 2017 indicated

NO!  Not the conclusion of the study. 
Look who they cited for making the quoted italicized fragment below --
"The Regional Transportation Alliance (RTA) — which is a coalition of businesses in the Raleigh-Durham area advocating for transportation initiatives and policy ..."

Where did they indicate that came directly from the RTA? I know what the RTA is, but was not able to find that quote from them.

Either way, let's let HRTPO and VDOT make the decision of what they decide to do, and let NCDOT decide to build I-87 or not. There's clearly a desire for a limited-access corridor to I-95 South, and unless VDOT plops out $1.5 - $2 billion dollars to make it a reality, I see them going along with I-87 based on cost.

[hotdogPi]

There are several non-suburb cities 20K+ without freeway access around the country; Elizabeth City is slightly under. The other cities along the route are about 5K at the most. Does this mean that every US city 20K+ needs a 100-mile freeway connecting them, even if there's nothing nearby?

Jacksonville NC is four times as large and in the same state.

[sprjus4]

There are several non-suburb cities 20K+ without freeway access; Elizabeth City is slightly under. The other cities along the route are about 5K at the most. Does this mean that every US city 20K+ needs a 100-mile freeway connecting them, even if there's nothing nearby?

Jacksonville NC is four times as large and in the same state.

There's been a desire to provide interstate access to Jacksonville in the past, and still has been recently discussed. North Carolina has a larger freeway network than many states, and has a desire to connect Elizabeth City to Norfolk and Raleigh.

Don't kill the messenger, I'm basically quoting them.

[Beltway]

However, the Hampton Roads Regional Freight Study, https://www.hrtpo.org/uploads/docs/Regional%20Freight%20Study%20Update%202017%20Update%20-%20FINAL%28new%29.pdf, in 2017 indicated

NO!  Not the conclusion of the study. 
Look who they cited for making the quoted italicized fragment below --
"The Regional Transportation Alliance (RTA) — which is a coalition of businesses in the Raleigh-Durham area advocating for transportation initiatives and policy ..."

Where did they indicate that came directly from the RTA? I know what the RTA is, but was not able to find that quote from them.

It is clear enough as they are quoted right around that passage.

Either way, let's let HRTPO and VDOT make the decision of what they decide to do, and let NCDOT decide to build I-87 or not. There's clearly a desire for a limited-access corridor to I-95 South, and unless VDOT plops out $1.5 - $2 billion dollars to make it a reality, I see them going along with I-87 based on cost.

I don't see VDOT having any interest in I-87 to southerly I-95.  They already have a shorter connection that will see major upgrades over the next 10 years or so.

[sprjus4]

It is clear enough as they are quoted right around that passage.

There's no proof of that. They bolded other key points throughout the study for different roadways as well.

I don't see VDOT having any interest in I-87 to southerly I-95.  They already have a shorter connection that will see major upgrades over the next 10 years or so.

The only one now is the six-lane widening. The US 58/13/460 Connector Study was cancelled, likely those improvements are not going to come any time soon, plus it's estimated to cost $400 million as per HRTPO to simply add two interchanges seems like a huge waste as valuable money, I think we can both agree on that.

Did I miss something else? Correct me if I did.

I-87 would likely cost less than $70 million to complete, and provide the Port with the desired southerly interstate connection to I-95. And if they had 0 interest, then this study would not have even mentioned it or considered it as an option for connecting with I-95 South to begin with. It's also interesting they say -

"In 2012, the highest amount of freight that was moved in Hampton Roads in terms of weight (annual tonnage) was along the I-64 corridor and Route 58. By 2040, the top corridors for moving freight tonnage are expected to be I-64, Route 58, Route 13/CBBT, and I-264 in Norfolk and Portsmouth. By 2040, the top two primary gateways for freight by annual tonnage are expected to be I-64 and Route 58 (see Figure ES-7). The IHS Transearch data analysis only includes existing roadways so the potential I-87 Interstate corridor may also be a top freight gateway in the future."

Large trucks get about 4 miles per gallon of fuel, and there is no way that truck drivers and trucking companies could consider it anything but much less direct.

Do you ever consider that that's today? Who knows how trucks will be in 20 years. Technology is improving, trucks could become way more fuel efficient by then.

[Beltway]

It is clear enough as they are quoted right around that passage.

There's no proof of that. They bolded other key points throughout the study for different roadways as well.

Whoever made that statement is ignorant of engineering and trucking.

I don't see VDOT having any interest in I-87 to southerly I-95.  They already have a shorter connection that will see major upgrades over the next 10 years or so.

The only one now is the six-lane widening. The US 58/13/460 Connector Study was cancelled, likely those improvements are going to come any time soon, plus it's estimated to cost $400 million as per HRTPO.

It has not been canceled.  You listed it in the 2040 long range plan in another thread.

There is the Bowers Hill Interchange upgrade.
There is a study to connect the Franklin and Courtland bypasses.
There an arterial management study along the whole 71 mile corridor that can lay the foundation for upgrades.

I-87 would likely cost less than $70 million to complete

In Virginia?  I would estimate at least $250 million, maybe $400 million.

Large trucks get about 4 miles per gallon of fuel, and there is no way that truck drivers and trucking companies could consider it anything but much less direct.

Do you ever consider that that's today? Who knows how trucks will be in 20 years. Technology is improving, trucks could become way more fuel efficient by then.

Trucks are getting bigger.  If you want to look 20 years ahead they may allow 100,000 to 110,000 pounds GVW.

[sprjus4]

It has not been canceled.  You listed it in the 2040 long range plan in another thread.

There is the Bowers Hill Interchange upgrade.
There is a study to connect the Franklin and Courtland bypasses.
There an arterial management study along the whole 71 mile corridor that can lay the foundation for upgrades.

And none of those projects have been funded or are guaranteed for funding. Their was a brief evaluation done near Franklin and Courtland which said, hey we should connect these two. I saw the study. There's been no further analysis of it, or is even listed on the long range plan.

The Bowers Hill Interchange upgrade isn't going to impact US 58? Plus, don't even get me started on that cost estimate.

In Virginia?  I would estimate at least $250 million, maybe $400 million.

For 5 interchanges, on farmland? If you're going numbers those high, a US 58 upgrade would be over $4 billion.

The reason the US 58 / 13 / 460 connector is so god damn expensive is because sensitive protected swamp land is on both sides of it plus they'd have to widen the shoulders to proper width, and you've mentioned before, interstate standard shoulders require a full reconstruction, plus adding them on the left side. That's not the case for US 17. It's already built to full interstate standards, with the exception of the few at-grade intersections. The footprints for interchanges wouldn't impact the Great Dismal Swamp.

Trucks are getting bigger.  If you want to look 20 years ahead they may allow 100,000 to 110,000 pounds GVW.

And likely will come with more fuel efficiency as technology gets better and better. Going an additional 20 miles might not have an impact like it does today. Passenger vehicles don't have an impact doing that additional distance today. Maybe trucks won't either. Who knows.

[Beltway]

It has not been canceled.  You listed it in the 2040 long range plan in another thread.
There is the Bowers Hill Interchange upgrade.
There is a study to connect the Franklin and Courtland bypasses.
There an arterial management study along the whole 71 mile corridor that can lay the foundation for upgrades.

And none of those projects have been funded or are guaranteed for funding. Their was a brief evaluation done near Franklin and Courtland which said, hey we should connect these two. I saw the study. There's been no further analysis of it, or is even listed on the long range plan.

That was from HRTPO.  VDOT will have its own priorities. 
But if you want to look 20 years into the future all of them are probable if not likely, and more that are not even official proposals yet.   

That's not the case for US 17. It's already built to full interstate standards, with the exception of the few at-grade intersections. The footprints for interchanges wouldn't impact the Great Dismal Swamp.

But they would impact sensitive areas that caused years of delays by ACOE for the relocation project.  There are 3 miles of nonlimited-access highway on the southern end of Dominion Blvd.  Four or five public road interchanges would be needed, and three at-grade intersections with the massive farm would have to be addressed probably by bridges.

Trucks are getting bigger.  If you want to look 20 years ahead they may allow 100,000 to 110,000 pounds GVW.

And likely will come with more fuel efficiency as technology gets better and better. Going an additional 20 miles might not have an impact like it does today. Passenger vehicles don't have an impact doing that additional distance today. Maybe trucks won't either. Who knows.

Tractor-trailer fuel mileage has been relatively static for the last 60 years, as increasing GVWs have overcome fuel efficiency improvements. 

High tech may make it possible to safely run full doubles and maybe triples, if we want to dream about the future.

[sprjus4]

That's not the case for US 17. It's already built to full interstate standards, with the exception of the few at-grade intersections. The footprints for interchanges wouldn't impact the Great Dismal Swamp.

But they would impact sensitive areas that caused years of delays by ACOE for the relocation project.  There are 3 miles of nonlimited-access highway on the southern end of Dominion Blvd.  Four or five public road interchanges would be needed, and three at-grade intersections with the massive farm would have to be addressed probably by bridges.

The entire 17 miles of U.S. 17 in Chesapeake has limited-access. There's two breaks in the limited-access right of way for 2 private driveways, those of which can easily have a frontage road extension.

If the farm at the southern end is truly an issue, they can buy out the west side of it. Or, even if they did construct a bridge, it would be $5-10 million maximum. A narrow 1 lane grade-separation would not cost a lot of money. It's not like it'd be designed like a public roadway bridge.

4 interchanges would be needed - Scenic Pkwy, George Washington Hwy, Cornland Rd, and Ballahack Rd. Those would cost around $60-70 million to construct total.

I drew up this concept map last year on how it could be done - https://www.scribblemaps.com/maps/view/Upgrading_US_Route_17/YamBCRZZuC

A study is currently planned to study interchange locations, upgrading it to interstate standards, etc. Once that is complete, we'll have a better idea.

"In this regard, at the City's request, the Hampton Roads District Office of VDOT has agreed to take the lead in initiating a feasibility study to identify the general limits and future interchanges along the Dominion Boulevard Route 17 corridor. The Hampton Roads Transportation Planning Organization (HRTPO) is also being requested to participate in the study. City staff will maintain contact with VDOT and HRTPO to facilitate initiation of the Route 17 interstate interchange feasibility study and will be prepared to help coordinate the study implementation, including organizing and promoting citizen input opportunities."

http://files.constantcontact.com/2d09bb17be/38bd3e8d-7938-4453-ac21-829bfcf0f481.pdf - Route 17 Interstate Upgrade Impacts, December 2017

and more that are not even official proposals yet.   

Correct. I-87 could become one of those in the future once the thing breaks ground in North Carolina. Nobody knows.

These projects were recommended to HRTPO for the Regional Connectors Study last Tuesday -
- Improving Route 17
- Separate/adjacent tunnel for traffic out of NIT
- New crossing just east of Williamsburg with connection to US 17, I-664, or US 460/17 on southside
- Ferry Service — Hampton, Norfolk, Newport News connections
- I-87 to NC
- Western extension of proposed I-664 Connector to US 17

https://www.hrtpo.org/uploads/docs/P6%267%20-%20Status%20Report%20-%20January%2029%202019_joint_meeting_ver1.pdf
Page 9.

[Beltway]

But they would impact sensitive areas that caused years of delays by ACOE for the relocation project.  There are 3 miles of nonlimited-access highway on the southern end of Dominion Blvd.  Four or five public road interchanges would be needed, and three at-grade intersections with the massive farm would have to be addressed probably by bridges.

The entire 17 miles of U.S. 17 in Chesapeake has limited-access. There's two breaks in the limited-access right of way for 2 private driveways, those of which can easily have a frontage road extension.

That section is -not- limited access nor was the original Dominion Blvd.   Access rights would have to be acquired and service roads built.

If the farm at the southern end is truly an issue, they can buy out the west side of it. Or, even if they did construct a bridge, it would be $5-10 million maximum. A narrow 1 lane grade-separation would not cost a lot of money. It's not like it'd be designed like a public roadway bridge.

Two of those farm intersections are where US-17 is right along the Dismal Swamp Canal, so it would be more involved and expensive than that.  Losing that access would have a major impact on the farm so they can't just "buy out the west side of it", that might mean acquiring a square mile of land (that farm is huge).

4 interchanges would be needed - Scenic Pkwy, George Washington Hwy, Cornland Rd, and Ballahack Rd. Those would cost around $60-70 million to construct total.

Such incredibly low cost estimates for projects you support, and such incredibly high cost estimates for projects you oppose.

I drew up this concept map last year on how it could be done - https://www.scribblemaps.com/maps/view/Upgrading_US_Route_17/YamBCRZZuC

Interchanges far too small to provide proper service or meet modern standards.  Again, ACOE may object.

and more that are not even official proposals yet.   

Correct. I-87 could become one of those in the future once the thing breaks ground in North Carolina. Nobody knows.

Highways, highways, highways. 

Far more tonnage of Hampton Roads port freight moves by railroad than by highway, and that will only increase as projects such as the recent Heartlands project are built to upgrade the railroad network in this part of the county. 

The Heartland Corridor Project is an 852km-long railway line constructed [actually upgrade of existing] in Virginia, US. It carries double stack container freight trains between the Port of Norfolk and Chicago.   The line became operational on 9 September 2010.  The line was built by Norfolk Southern Railway (NS) and Federal agencies through a public-private partnership.  The total cost of the project was $321m.
https://www.railway-technology.com/projects/norfolkheartland/

Another big improvement to the Hampton Roads freight railroad system --

The relocated freight railroad line of Commonwealth Railway, Inc., a Suffolk-West Norfolk short-line railroad, follows the orange line along the two highways I-664 and VA-164.  The red line is the abandoned route thru Portsmouth neighborhoods.  The relocated line opened in December 2010.  The $60 million project, paid for almost entirely with federal and state funding, connects the APM Terminals' port facility in Portsmouth to the rail systems of Norfolk Southern Corp. and CSX Corp. in Suffolk.  The relocated freight railroad line not only provides a higher speed and higher capacity fully grade separated line, but also provides a major benefit to the Portsmouth neighborhoods that no longer have an at-grade freight railroad line that had 14 road crossings.
http://www.roadstothefuture.com/Mid_Tunn_Port_Norf_MLK.html
http://www.roadstothefuture.com/Commonwealth%20Railway.jpg

This railroad line will be connected to the future Craney Island Marine Terminal.

Freight rail will become even more dominant in the Hampton Road area.

[sprjus4]

That section is -not- limited access nor was the original Dominion Blvd.   Access rights would have to be acquired and service roads built.

Incorrect.

Page 1-1 of the Environmental Assessment completed in 2008 indicates the roadway already had a limited-access right of way, and in fact was built on a four-lane right of way to begin with. This goes for the entire Dominion Blvd corridor from US 17 to I-64.

"The alternatives were evaluated by a study team task force, which subsequently recommended construction of a four-lane divided arterial roadway within the existing limited access right-of-way at the southern terminus of the corridor (i.e., from US 17 to just south of Cedar Road)."

http://www.cityofchesapeake.net/Assets/documents/departments/public_works/Dominion/Dominion+Environmental+Assessment.pdf

Not to mention, the design plans (linked below) also show "Prop. ROW and Limited Access Line" on the edge of the right of way. Also, limited-access fencing line the entire corridor today. You can easily see these from street view.

http://www.cityofchesapeake.net/Assets/documents/departments/public_works/Dominion/2008+Dominion+Proposal/2008+PH-Display-S1.pdf
http://www.cityofchesapeake.net/Assets/documents/departments/public_works/Dominion/2008+Dominion+Proposal/2008-PH-Display-South.pdf
http://www.cityofchesapeake.net/Assets/documents/departments/public_works/Dominion/2008+Dominion+Proposal/2008-PH-Display-Cedar.pdf
http://www.cityofchesapeake.net/Assets/documents/departments/public_works/Dominion/2008+Dominion+Proposal/2008-PH-Display-Bridge.pdf
http://www.cityofchesapeake.net/Assets/documents/departments/public_works/Dominion/2008+Dominion+Proposal/2008-PH-Display-Bainbridge.pdf
http://www.cityofchesapeake.net/Assets/documents/departments/public_works/Dominion/2008+Dominion+Proposal/2008-PH-Display-GBB$!26Oak.pdf

Two of those farm intersections are where US-17 is right along the Dismal Swamp Canal, so it would be more involved and expensive than that.

There's no farm on the west side where US-17 is right along the Dismal Swamp Canal. If you build a bridge there, it goes into the canal... The only portion overpasses would be required are where US 17 is -not- along the canal.

Such incredibly low cost estimates for projects you support, and such incredibly high cost estimates for projects you oppose.

It's a lot cheaper to build on farm land than swamp. Not to mention, the interchanges along U.S. Route 58 would involve complex designs. I support both projects, I just don't see the U.S. 58 connector happening anytime soon with a price tag like that. Plus, ACOE may object. Dominion Blvd was cheaper, had way more justification for funding (only 2 lanes, heavy traffic, low-level draw bridge on major corridor, etc), and ended up being tolled.

Interchanges far too small to provide proper service or meet modern standards.

The length of the ramps is the exact same as used on the 2016 Goldsboro Bypass in North Carolina. It was built to full interstate standards, and will eventually be Interstate 42.

Highways, highways, highways. 

Far more tonnage of Hampton Roads port freight moves by railroad than by highway, and that will only increase as projects such as the recent Heartlands project are built to upgrade the railroad network in this part of the county. 

The Heartland Corridor Project is an 852km-long railway line constructed [actually upgrade of existing] in Virginia, US. It carries double stack container freight trains between the Port of Norfolk and Chicago.   The line became operational on 9 September 2010.  The line was built by Norfolk Southern Railway (NS) and Federal agencies through a public-private partnership.  The total cost of the project was $321m.
https://www.railway-technology.com/projects/norfolkheartland/

Another big improvement to the Hampton Roads freight railroad system --

The relocated freight railroad line of Commonwealth Railway, Inc., a Suffolk-West Norfolk short-line railroad, follows the orange line along the two highways I-664 and VA-164.  The red line is the abandoned route thru Portsmouth neighborhoods.  The relocated line opened in December 2010.  The $60 million project, paid for almost entirely with federal and state funding, connects the APM Terminals' port facility in Portsmouth to the rail systems of Norfolk Southern Corp. and CSX Corp. in Suffolk.  The relocated freight railroad line not only provides a higher speed and higher capacity fully grade separated line, but also provides a major benefit to the Portsmouth neighborhoods that no longer have an at-grade freight railroad line that had 14 road crossings.
http://www.roadstothefuture.com/Mid_Tunn_Port_Norf_MLK.html
http://www.roadstothefuture.com/Commonwealth%20Railway.jpg

This railroad line will be connected to the future Craney Island Marine Terminal.

Freight rail will become even more dominant in the Hampton Road area.

I'm aware of both projects. They're operational today. I still see plenty of trucks on the highways around here today. That's not the only justification for I-87. But let's not get back into that debate.

[US 89]