Phoenix Area Highways

[ztonyg]

The idea of having two freeways converging north of downtown Scottsdale is worth a laugh through modern lenses.  My house would have been in the ROW for the East Belt Expressway as it was right on the south bank of the Arizona Canal.

The town of Paradise Valley would be completely surrounded by freeways.

I do contend that the original routing of I-10 south of downtown would've been a much better routing traffic wise. The problem is that it seems that the majority of traffic in the mini stack is thru traffic that is required to exit from E/B I-10 to E/B Loop 202 and W/B Loop 202 to W/B I-10. This traffic is forced to exit onto 2 lane exit ramps (and in the case of the W/B traffic eventually merge left rather quickly as the ramp lanes end before 7th St. E/B I-10 to E/B Loop 202 and W/B Loop 202 to W/B I-10 should be the thru movement with at least 3 lanes in each direction + an HOV lane. An exit to stay on I-10 (while not ideal) wouldn't be awful traffic wise (especially with the I-17 and Loop 202 South Mountain Freeway as viable alternatives for thru traffic.

[Max Rockatansky]

Despite the freeway through Paradise Valley never being built the corridor of Lincoln was one of my favored cutoff roads.  I can definitely see what the planners had in mind. 

[Sonic99]

The idea of having two freeways converging north of downtown Scottsdale is worth a laugh through modern lenses.  My house would have been in the ROW for the East Belt Expressway as it was right on the south bank of the Arizona Canal.

The town of Paradise Valley would be completely surrounded by freeways.

I do contend that the original routing of I-10 south of downtown would've been a much better routing traffic wise. The problem is that it seems that the majority of traffic in the mini stack is thru traffic that is required to exit from E/B I-10 to E/B Loop 202 and W/B Loop 202 to W/B I-10. This traffic is forced to exit onto 2 lane exit ramps (and in the case of the W/B traffic eventually merge left rather quickly as the ramp lanes end before 7th St. E/B I-10 to E/B Loop 202 and W/B Loop 202 to W/B I-10 should be the thru movement with at least 3 lanes in each direction + an HOV lane. An exit to stay on I-10 (while not ideal) wouldn't be awful traffic wise (especially with the I-17 and Loop 202 South Mountain Freeway as viable alternatives for thru traffic.

I would like to think the SR 30, the faster it can be built (and the proposed extension from the I-17 Durango Curve over to the currently planned terminus at the L202 South Mountain gets green-lit and fast tracked) that SHOULD take a good bit of load off of I-10 between the Stack and the Mini-Stack. Starting to get into "fictional" territory but I personally would LOVE to see the current I-17 Durango Curve converted to basically end I-17 there, and have SR30 extend from the Split by Sky Harbor straight through as the original I-10 plans from 50+ years ago intended. That would REALLY emphasize SR 30 being a proper "I-10 alternate" for E/W travel.

[The Ghostbuster]

It might be quite a while before construction of AZ 30 commences and is completed. I believe only the segment between Loop 303 and Loop 202 has a construction date (I believe it is 2026), and the AZ 85-to-Loop 303 and Loop 303-to-Interstate 17 segments have no construction dates yet. I also believe there needs to be a regional transportation sales tax extension or AZ 30 might not be constructed at all.

[Sonic99]

It might be quite a while before construction of AZ 30 commences and is completed. I believe only the segment between Loop 303 and Loop 202 has a construction date (I believe it is 2026), and the AZ 85-to-Loop 303 and Loop 303-to-Interstate 17 segments have no construction dates yet. I also believe there needs to be a regional transportation sales tax extension or AZ 30 might not be constructed at all.

I think last I heard, the tax extension has gotten past the stupidity of the Legislature, not sure if it requires a public vote or not. If so, wouldn't at all shocked for the same people who fought it in the Legislature try to completely destroy it at the ballot box. Same people who scream "cut taxes, no taxes" are the same ones who will turn at the flip of a coin and say "wow, our roads suck so bad, see, the other party is terrible at their jobs! Vote us back in!"

[Sonic99]

Came across something I haven't seen mentioned here yet. I'm sure most around the Valley know that the current configuration of the US60/Loop 303 interchange is "less than optimal" and has really bad backups. ADOT has done another study and have developed short-term and long-term plans for the interchange.

https://azdot.gov/projects/central-district-projects/us-60-loop-303-traffic-interchange-improvements

Short term seems pretty straight forward (double exit lanes from NB 303 to 60, 3 left turn lanes to NB/WB Grand Ave, and also continuing the third lane on Grand WB up to 163rd Ave for a double right hand turn lane along with 3 lanes from SB 163rd to SB/EB Grand. Just a little slight adding of asphalt in a few places and restriping some lanes. I'm sure that will be better than what they've currently got.

Where you lose me in "what the hell" land is the proposed long-term solution. They propose keeping WB Grand where it is, but have EB swoop up and over the 303 (which is already quite elevated to go over the BNSF tracks) and back down on the other side, and then elevate over 163rd Ave. I feel like it's an insane amount of overkill and expense for something that could literally be solved for surely less money by having BNSF submerge their tracks to allow ramps to go over them. But they literally say in the Report that "Operating under the presumption that the BNSF will not allow any improvements within
their right-of-way, the study team proposes to construct southbound off-ramp and northbound on-ramp bridges over the BNSF and ultimately tie into SR 303L to the north."

Why the hell are the railroads THAT unwilling to do ANYTHING to help? I get not expecting BNSF to do it entirely on their own money, but can ADOT not offer to help with relocation costs? Yeah, submerging those tracks won't be cheap. But ADOT's alternative is an absolutely massive bridge likely 50-60+ feet in the air for an extended length with a really goofy configuration that I promise the "more life experienced" in Sun City will have zero clue how to navigate.

As someone who lives in the NW Valley it's insanely frustrating that there are so many traffic hinderances from those BNSF tracks and the answer is always "BNSF won't help so we gotta work around them" and either create substandard crossings (Greenway Rd crossing at BNSF is absolutely terrible) or force ADOT into exorbitant solutions that cost the taxpayers significantly more than if there were solutions involving depressing the tracks even partially.

Anyone have any insight into why the hell the railroads are so adamant that they won't move a single rail?

[kernals12]

When did ADOT start putting in those blue crests for Loop 101?

Also, why does the section of 202 north of Sky Harbor have a bunch of pavement seams running perpendicular to the road?

[Scott5114]

When did ADOT start putting in those blue crests for Loop 101?

Those came with the road when it opened. The new ones are the black and white ones, unless something changed recently and I haven't heard about it.

[kernals12]

On the lighter side of things: ADOT bought some property in Avondale for the construction of the Tres Rios Freeway only to find they had a tresspasser who went by the name of Pixie.


It took them the better part of two months and the assistance of local rescue organizations to trap Pixie and bring her to a better home.

[Sonic99]

When did ADOT start putting in those blue crests for Loop 101?

Also, why does the section of 202 north of Sky Harbor have a bunch of pavement seams running perpendicular to the road?

The blue 101 signs are the originals. The Loops originally had unique colors for their signs but ultimately the colors never held up to the sun and faded, so ADOT went with the standard black lettering on a white logo. The 101 was blue logo, 202 was red/burgundy logo, and the 303 was inverted black logo with white lettering. Overall the blue ones held up the best, but they've been getting phased out as signage gets replaced.

As for the 202, that particular section is the oldest section of the 202, opening around 1990. The current asphalt is about 20 years old if the Historic Aerials data is correct, so that pavement is also among the oldest in the Valley. It's been patched and crack-sealed but it probably is in need of replacement. Since ADOT seems to be phasing out the rubberized asphalt and going back to concrete, I'd say this section is a good candidate to get that treatment sooner than later.

[Max Rockatansky]

I have a blue Loop 101, brown 202 and black 303 all in my garage:

https://flic.kr/p/SxYQUW

https://flic.kr/p/2kkRWn5

https://flic.kr/p/RRizgU

[kernals12]

When did ADOT start putting in those blue crests for Loop 101?

Also, why does the section of 202 north of Sky Harbor have a bunch of pavement seams running perpendicular to the road?

The blue 101 signs are the originals. The Loops originally had unique colors for their signs but ultimately the colors never held up to the sun and faded, so ADOT went with the standard black lettering on a white logo. The 101 was blue logo, 202 was red/burgundy logo, and the 303 was inverted black logo with white lettering. Overall the blue ones held up the best, but they've been getting phased out as signage gets replaced.

As for the 202, that particular section is the oldest section of the 202, opening around 1990. The current asphalt is about 20 years old if the Historic Aerials data is correct, so that pavement is also among the oldest in the Valley. It's been patched and crack-sealed but it probably is in need of replacement. Since ADOT seems to be phasing out the rubberized asphalt and going back to concrete, I'd say this section is a good candidate to get that treatment sooner than later.

But why are the cracks almost perfectly perpendicular to the road? It's like the road was made out of a series of rectangular tiles laid out next to each other.

[Sonic99]

When did ADOT start putting in those blue crests for Loop 101?

Also, why does the section of 202 north of Sky Harbor have a bunch of pavement seams running perpendicular to the road?

The blue 101 signs are the originals. The Loops originally had unique colors for their signs but ultimately the colors never held up to the sun and faded, so ADOT went with the standard black lettering on a white logo. The 101 was blue logo, 202 was red/burgundy logo, and the 303 was inverted black logo with white lettering. Overall the blue ones held up the best, but they've been getting phased out as signage gets replaced.

As for the 202, that particular section is the oldest section of the 202, opening around 1990. The current asphalt is about 20 years old if the Historic Aerials data is correct, so that pavement is also among the oldest in the Valley. It's been patched and crack-sealed but it probably is in need of replacement. Since ADOT seems to be phasing out the rubberized asphalt and going back to concrete, I'd say this section is a good candidate to get that treatment sooner than later.

But why are the cracks almost perfectly perpendicular to the road? It's like the road was made out of a series of rectangular tiles laid out next to each other.

Actually I'd never noticed until you mentioned it, looking on Google Maps I see exactly what you're talking about. Going back through Google Earth historical data, the asphalt was laid down in 2005, then in 2009 the 202 got widened through that whole section from I-10 to the 101 and it's after that project that the "cuts" were there. Water drainage or something maybe?

[pderocco]

I think it's due to some paving technique that involves laying down a bunch of asphalt, rolling it flat out to a boundary, then doing another section in the same manner, instead of doing it continuously. At first, it looks fine, but eventually, after years of thermal contraction and expansion, it develops cracks at the weakest point, which is where the sections met. I could be wrong, but I've seen that in many places on two-lane roads. Driving them is annoying, because the constant thumping.

[kernals12]

I think it's due to some paving technique that involves laying down a bunch of asphalt, rolling it flat out to a boundary, then doing another section in the same manner, instead of doing it continuously. At first, it looks fine, but eventually, after years of thermal contraction and expansion, it develops cracks at the weakest point, which is where the sections met. I could be wrong, but I've seen that in many places on two-lane roads. Driving them is annoying, because the constant thumping.

I can't think of any more sensible explanation so I'll take yours.

[Sonic99]

I think it's due to some paving technique that involves laying down a bunch of asphalt, rolling it flat out to a boundary, then doing another section in the same manner, instead of doing it continuously. At first, it looks fine, but eventually, after years of thermal contraction and expansion, it develops cracks at the weakest point, which is where the sections met. I could be wrong, but I've seen that in many places on two-lane roads. Driving them is annoying, because the constant thumping.

Honestly I'm not sure what the deal is. It almost looks like in old Google Street View shots that they're very deliberate, straight cuts. They don't really "worm" like they're random cracking and they are only like 20 feet apart almost in a perfect pattern. So IDK what the deal is.

[DJStephens]

When did ADOT start putting in those blue crests for Loop 101?

Also, why does the section of 202 north of Sky Harbor have a bunch of pavement seams running perpendicular to the road?

The blue 101 signs are the originals. The Loops originally had unique colors for their signs but ultimately the colors never held up to the sun and faded, so ADOT went with the standard black lettering on a white logo. The 101 was blue logo, 202 was red/burgundy logo, and the 303 was inverted black logo with white lettering. Overall the blue ones held up the best, but they've been getting phased out as signage gets replaced.

As for the 202, that particular section is the oldest section of the 202, opening around 1990. The current asphalt is about 20 years old if the Historic Aerials data is correct, so that pavement is also among the oldest in the Valley. It's been patched and crack-sealed but it probably is in need of replacement. Since ADOT seems to be phasing out the rubberized asphalt and going back to concrete, I'd say this section is a good candidate to get that treatment sooner than later.

But why are the cracks almost perfectly perpendicular to the road? It's like the road was made out of a series of rectangular tiles laid out next to each other.

The original pavements on the loops was concrete.  The "rubberized" asphalt overlays were done later, believe done mostly in an attempt at noise reduction.   110-115 degree heat in the summer months is not friendly to these overlays.  Am of belief diamond milling concrete pavements is becoming more commonplace, as the technology has advanced, so that rubberized overlays, due to their degradation over time, will become a non-starter.   Believe they, meaning ADOT, removed the overlay, on a stretch of I-10 on the west side of Tucson in recent years.  There must have been other removals. 
     There is next to no de-icing chemicals used on Maricopa County roads, so there are literally no degradation due to those chemicals.   
     The "perpendicular" saw cuts, are for expansion and contraction, which in southern Arizona is likely more than other locales.   Again this is due to the 110-115 degree seasonal heat. Am of belief that they used continously reinforced concrete on the loops, rather than "traditional" longitudinal slabs used in the past, meaning in the sixties and seventies.   

[Sonic99]

When did ADOT start putting in those blue crests for Loop 101?

Also, why does the section of 202 north of Sky Harbor have a bunch of pavement seams running perpendicular to the road?

The blue 101 signs are the originals. The Loops originally had unique colors for their signs but ultimately the colors never held up to the sun and faded, so ADOT went with the standard black lettering on a white logo. The 101 was blue logo, 202 was red/burgundy logo, and the 303 was inverted black logo with white lettering. Overall the blue ones held up the best, but they've been getting phased out as signage gets replaced.

As for the 202, that particular section is the oldest section of the 202, opening around 1990. The current asphalt is about 20 years old if the Historic Aerials data is correct, so that pavement is also among the oldest in the Valley. It's been patched and crack-sealed but it probably is in need of replacement. Since ADOT seems to be phasing out the rubberized asphalt and going back to concrete, I'd say this section is a good candidate to get that treatment sooner than later.

But why are the cracks almost perfectly perpendicular to the road? It's like the road was made out of a series of rectangular tiles laid out next to each other.

The original pavements on the loops was concrete.  The "rubberized" asphalt overlays were done later, believe done mostly in an attempt at noise reduction.   110-115 degree heat in the summer months is not friendly to these overlays.  Am of belief diamond milling concrete pavements is becoming more commonplace, as the technology has advanced, so that rubberized overlays, due to their degradation over time, will become a non-starter.   Believe they, meaning ADOT, removed the overlay, on a stretch of I-10 on the west side of Tucson in recent years.  There must have been other removals. 
     There is next to no de-icing chemicals used on Maricopa County roads, so there are literally no degradation due to those chemicals.   
     The "perpendicular" saw cuts, are for expansion and contraction, which in southern Arizona is likely more than other locales.   Again this is due to the 110-115 degree seasonal heat. Am of belief that they used continously reinforced concrete on the loops, rather than "traditional" longitudinal slabs used in the past, meaning in the sixties and seventies.

They've done a decent bit of rubberized asphalt removal over the last couple years around Phoenix. I-17 from Metrocenter up to the 101 had it all removed and they diamond milled the concrete underneath. Also the 101 widening from I-17 over to Scottsdale also didn't have any asphalt put back down when they did the widening project, they left the concrete. So they're definitely phasing it out.

[KeithE4Phx]

Not a freeway, but ADOT is finally cleaning up the mess that is Main St./Apache Trail in "far-east" Mesa, officially-but-unsigned US 60X.  The work, from Sossaman Rd. to Meridian Rd. (the Maricopa/Pinal County Line) will take two years.  After completion, the road will be turned over to MCDOT.

Unfortunately, ADOT has no control over the dilapidated condition of the many run-down businesses, trailer parks, crack-house motels, etc. along the highway, which have been a blight for decades.

https://ktar.com/story/5560194/main-street-mesa-roadway-improvements-resurfacing-construction/

[Sonic99]

Not a freeway, but ADOT is finally cleaning up the mess that is Main St./Apache Trail in "far-east" Mesa, officially-but-unsigned US 60X.  The work, from Sossaman Rd. to Meridian Rd. (the Maricopa/Pinal County Line) will take two years.  After completion, the road will be turned over to MCDOT.

Unfortunately, ADOT has no control over the dilapidated condition of the many run-down businesses, trailer parks, crack-house motels, etc. along the highway, which have been a blight for decades.

https://ktar.com/story/5560194/main-street-mesa-roadway-improvements-resurfacing-construction/

That entire area has been in decline for a long time, especially since US 60 got taken off of there and moved to the Superstition when it opened all the way out in 1992. It used to be THE way from Phoenix out to the copper towns east of the Valley. Once the Superstition opened, the traffic volume tanked and thus the businesses lost 80% of their customer base.

[pderocco]

That entire area has been in decline for a long time, especially since US 60 got taken off of there and moved to the Superstition when it opened all the way out in 1992. It used to be THE way from Phoenix out to the copper towns east of the Valley. Once the Superstition opened, the traffic volume tanked and thus the businesses lost 80% of their customer base.

Since 1992, that whole area has infilled pretty thoroughly, and there's a much larger population to support businesses along the old US-60 than back then. And I expect that will continue, since it isn't completely full.

[Sonic99]

That entire area has been in decline for a long time, especially since US 60 got taken off of there and moved to the Superstition when it opened all the way out in 1992. It used to be THE way from Phoenix out to the copper towns east of the Valley. Once the Superstition opened, the traffic volume tanked and thus the businesses lost 80% of their customer base.

Since 1992, that whole area has infilled pretty thoroughly, and there's a much larger population to support businesses along the old US-60 than back then. And I expect that will continue, since it isn't completely full.

It's a different type of business though. Lots of what is "wasting away" out there are hotels, motels, stuff that depended on passing traffic. It's shifting everything away from "passers-by" and converting to "the people who live around here" types of businesses that this area is struggling with. Plus the "people who live around here" are more than likely either retirees or less-than-wealthy people, which doesn't necessarily help sustain year-round growth.

[DJStephens]

That entire area has been in decline for a long time, especially since US 60 got taken off of there and moved to the Superstition when it opened all the way out in 1992. It used to be THE way from Phoenix out to the copper towns east of the Valley. Once the Superstition opened, the traffic volume tanked and thus the businesses lost 80% of their customer base.

Since 1992, that whole area has infilled pretty thoroughly, and there's a much larger population to support businesses along the old US-60 than back then. And I expect that will continue, since it isn't completely full.

Used to attend swap meets at the old Firebird Raceway in the mid-late nineties.  Stayed at the KOA campground in Apache Junction then.  At that time, there was open space between AJ and the main part of the Phoenix metro.  The Superstition was already open.   It has been widened several times since it first opened.   

[JKRhodes]

In a previous read, the ultimate goal was to improve 60X in two phases: first one being eminimation of right lane to construct sidewalk and bike lane.

Second phase was complete revision to City of Mesa Standard dimensions and lane count.

More recent links suggest it has been scaled back to Phase one before handover to MCDOT

https://azdot.gov/projects/central-district-projects/us-60x-sossaman-meridian-corridor-improvements

City of AJ spent a great deal of money last year terraforming and landscaping the extra wide median with vegetation and riprap, presumably to beautify and also to discourage jaywalking/bicycles.

[DJStephens]

Any particular reason "Business US - 60" wasn't applied, to the original route, when the Superstition opened?   Certainly would seem logical.