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Chicagoland Control Cities

Started by rmsandw, January 02, 2013, 09:16:23 PM

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roadman65

In 1987 way way way back, Milwaukee was used here as well as leaving the Airport for 294 NB.  That is because I-90 also goes to Wisconsin as well.  South of O' Hare Wisconsin was used then cause you had the choice at the tangle to either enter the next state via 294 & 94 or 90.  I do not know what 294's control cities are north of the O' Hare spaghetti bowl.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe


hbelkins

Quote from: Brandon on January 06, 2013, 05:28:38 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 06, 2013, 04:06:14 PM
A question: What do the people of Chicago call the rest of Illinois? "Downstate?" Or is there another preferred term?

"Downstate" is typically used.  Now, what constitutes "Downstate" is subjective.  Ask a Northsider, and they think anything south of Madison is "Downstate".  Ask a Southlander (Tinley, Harvey, etc), and they'll say the line is closer to Kankakee.  Now, bizarrely, Rockford and Galena are considered "Downstate" even though they're north of Chicago.

Then would "Downstate Illinois" be acceptable as a control "city?" If, Indiana and Iowa are used, then that would seem OK as well.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

3467

I know Rockfordians who considered themselves downstaters so maybe that is why downstate isnt used as a control while west suburbs or evne just Suburbs which was used at 55/355 jct

Road Hog

Funny stuff. Anything outside of Chicagoland proper is "downstate," regardless of compass direction (although the boundaries of Chicagoland seem to be ever expanding).

Likewise, anything north of Westchester County is considered "upstate" New York (the joke used to be Poughkeepskie was the dividing line, but that boundary seems to be shrinking south and Putnam County is now kind of no-man's land). Of course, I say that as an outside observer and a resident of another rapidly-growing metro.

A.J. Bertin

Quote from: ftballfan on January 05, 2013, 10:01:46 PM
What the control cities should be:
I-55 south: Bloomington (St. Louis)
I-57 south: Champaign-Urbana (Memphis)
I-65 south: Indianapolis
I-80 west: Quad Cities
I-80 east: South Bend (Toledo)
I-88 west: Quad Cities
I-90 west: Rockford (Madison)
I-90 east: South Bend (Toledo)
I-94 west: Milwaukee
I-94 east: Kalamazoo (Detroit)

I agree with this for the most part. It's a pet peeve of mine to see state names as control "cities". Here are some of my thoughts regarding control cities:

Along I-80:
I don't understand why Des Moines can't be used for westbound. It's the next major city. The Quad Cities can be a secondary control - similar to South Bend or Kalamazoo. I also don't see anything wrong with Joliet being used as a secondary control. I love the idea of South Bend being used a secondary control. It makes more sense than Gary, but I prefer "Gary Indiana" over simply "Indiana". Is South Bend even mentioned on a sign anywhere in Illinois? I also agree that, east of the Quad Cities, Chicago should not be used.

Along I-94:
I also like the idea of Kalamazoo being used as a secondary control but feel that it shouldn't be used eastbound until Indiana. (Having a secondary control two states away doesn't make much sense.) On the Bishop Ford section of I-94, what's the eastbound control... Detroit? If so, that's probably the right choice. When I-94 joins up with I-80 (on Kingery and Borman), it seems like both Detroit and Toledo should be mentioned with no secondary controls to reduce confusion. Once I-80 leaves I-94, it seems like Kalamazoo and Detroit are most appropriate for I-94. (And of course South Bend/Toledo should be used for I-80.)

Along I-90 (the Skyway section):
Detroit and Toledo should both be used because a significant amount of traffic jump on I-94 from there. Then once I-80 joins I-90, South Bend and Toledo make sense. (Maybe this is how it is currently.)

Along I-90 (the Kennedy/Jane Addams Tollway section):
I think Rockford and Madison seem best for westbound. Going eastbound, I'd say Chicago seems most appopriate until you get to, say, I-290. Then Detroit and Toledo make sense.

Along I-57:
Memphis is appropriate. (The existing secondary controls are fine too.)

Along I-55:
St. Louis is appropriate. I'm not sure what the secondary controls are there, but I'm sure they are fine.

I just can't stand seeing state names used.
-A.J. from Michigan

tdindy88

Quote from: A.J. Bertin on January 08, 2013, 12:41:48 PM

Along I-94:
I also like the idea of Kalamazoo being used as a secondary control but feel that it shouldn't be used eastbound until Indiana. (Having a secondary control two states away doesn't make much sense.) On the Bishop Ford section of I-94, what's the eastbound control... Detroit?

Along I-90 (the Skyway section):
Detroit and Toledo should both be used because a significant amount of traffic jump on I-94 from there. Then once I-80 joins I-90, South Bend and Toledo make sense. (Maybe this is how it is currently.)

Along I-55:
St. Louis is appropriate. I'm not sure what the secondary controls are there, but I'm sure they are fine.

Just answering a few of the questions you had. First of all, there is no mention of Detroit on the Bishop Ford at all, only Indiana as a control city. As for the Skyway, I'm pretty sure it is Indiana and Chicago that are the controls, but definently not Toledo or Detroit. Also, as far as I know South Bend has never been on any BGS in Illinois or Indiana. Indiana Toll Road controls are Ohio and Chicago and on the free part of 80/94 it is Chicago and Detroit, with Toledo mentioned around the I-65 interchange and points to the 80/94 split. Finally, the secondary controls on I-55 are Bloomington, Springfield and East St. Louis (seriously.)

Brandon

Quote from: tdindy88 on January 08, 2013, 02:57:42 PM
Quote from: A.J. Bertin on January 08, 2013, 12:41:48 PM

Along I-94:
I also like the idea of Kalamazoo being used as a secondary control but feel that it shouldn't be used eastbound until Indiana. (Having a secondary control two states away doesn't make much sense.) On the Bishop Ford section of I-94, what's the eastbound control... Detroit?

Along I-90 (the Skyway section):
Detroit and Toledo should both be used because a significant amount of traffic jump on I-94 from there. Then once I-80 joins I-90, South Bend and Toledo make sense. (Maybe this is how it is currently.)

Along I-55:
St. Louis is appropriate. I'm not sure what the secondary controls are there, but I'm sure they are fine.

Just answering a few of the questions you had. First of all, there is no mention of Detroit on the Bishop Ford at all, only Indiana as a control city. As for the Skyway, I'm pretty sure it is Indiana and Chicago that are the controls, but definently not Toledo or Detroit. Also, as far as I know South Bend has never been on any BGS in Illinois or Indiana. Indiana Toll Road controls are Ohio and Chicago and on the free part of 80/94 it is Chicago and Detroit, with Toledo mentioned around the I-65 interchange and points to the 80/94 split. Finally, the secondary controls on I-55 are Bloomington, Springfield and East St. Louis (seriously.)

Actually, there is no inbound control on the Skyway.  The outbound control is "Indiana" at the Ryan, and never mentioned again.  The next control seen is "Ohio" at the state line or just thereafter.

I-55 also has a secondary control of "Joliet" (as does I-80).

The only bgs where I've seen "South Bend" used is exit 40 on I-94 and the two South Bend exits on the Toll Road (72 and 77).  I've never even seen it in Michigan for US-31 along I-94.  That control thus far is "Niles"; however, "South Bend" is used along the US-31 freeway as a control so we might yet see "South Bend" along I-94 in the future for US-31.
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

InterstateNG

The BGS's for the US-31 exit off of I-94 just say Napier Ave.
I demand an apology.

SSOWorld

Quote from: Brandon on January 08, 2013, 04:06:03 PM
Actually, there is no inbound control on the Skyway.  The outbound control is "Indiana" at the Ryan, and never mentioned again.  The next control seen is "Ohio" at the state line or just thereafter.
Actually its "To Indiana Toll Rd" (Unless the Clearview Revolution changed that last year since May)
Scott O.

Not all who wander are lost...
Ah, the open skies, wind at my back, warm sun on my... wait, where the hell am I?!
As a matter of fact, I do own the road.
Raise your what?

Wisconsin - out-multiplexing your state since 1918.

Revive 755

Quote from: A.J. Bertin on January 08, 2013, 12:41:48 PM
Along I-55:
St. Louis is appropriate. I'm not sure what the secondary controls are there, but I'm sure they are fine.

I just can't stand seeing state names used.

Secondary for SB I-55 is Bloomington.

As for the use of state names, from what I got out of IDOT once it was a political decision.

3467

What would the political reason be ,not that I doubt it!
I think suburbs was not to offend omitted suburbs

Brandon

Quote from: Revive 755 on January 08, 2013, 10:54:15 PM
Quote from: A.J. Bertin on January 08, 2013, 12:41:48 PM
Along I-55:
St. Louis is appropriate. I'm not sure what the secondary controls are there, but I'm sure they are fine.

I just can't stand seeing state names used.

Secondary for SB I-55 is Bloomington.

As for the use of state names, from what I got out of IDOT once it was a political decision.

"Bloomington" only appears after crossing into Will County at Exit 267.  Otherwise, further north in DuPage and Cook Counties, the secondary control is "Joliet".

I-55's secondary controls are: Joliet, Bloomington or Bloomington-Normal (both are used), Springfield, and East St Louis.
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

A.J. Bertin

Quote from: tdindy88 on January 08, 2013, 02:57:42 PM
Indiana Toll Road controls are Ohio and Chicago.

Yuck. Ohio? What's wrong with Toledo?
-A.J. from Michigan

SSOWorld

Quote from: A.J. Bertin on January 09, 2013, 01:32:34 PM
Quote from: tdindy88 on January 08, 2013, 02:57:42 PM
Indiana Toll Road controls are Ohio and Chicago.

Yuck. Ohio? What's wrong with Toledo?
Could be worse (Cleveland) :P
Scott O.

Not all who wander are lost...
Ah, the open skies, wind at my back, warm sun on my... wait, where the hell am I?!
As a matter of fact, I do own the road.
Raise your what?

Wisconsin - out-multiplexing your state since 1918.

Revive 755

Quote from: 3467 on January 08, 2013, 11:00:49 PM
What would the political reason be ,not that I doubt it!

I don't remember exactly, but someone who did not like the prior control city complained; supposedly the complaint went up to the governor.

InterstateNG

Quote from: A.J. Bertin on January 09, 2013, 01:32:34 PM
Quote from: tdindy88 on January 08, 2013, 02:57:42 PM
Indiana Toll Road controls are Ohio and Chicago.

Yuck. Ohio? What's wrong with Toledo?

You know what's tiresome?  Midwest provincialism.
I demand an apology.

agentsteel53

Quote from: InterstateNG on January 10, 2013, 10:07:29 AM

You know what's tiresome?  Midwest provincialism.

wait 'til they bring their footballdongs to this size contest.  as NE2 would say: yawn!

(though, in this case, I believe the problem was with the use of a state as a control city, not the specific state.)
live from sunny San Diego.

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hobsini2

Quote from: Brandon on January 08, 2013, 04:06:03 PM
Quote from: tdindy88 on January 08, 2013, 02:57:42 PM
Quote from: A.J. Bertin on January 08, 2013, 12:41:48 PM

Along I-94:
I also like the idea of Kalamazoo being used as a secondary control but feel that it shouldn't be used eastbound until Indiana. (Having a secondary control two states away doesn't make much sense.) On the Bishop Ford section of I-94, what's the eastbound control... Detroit?

Along I-90 (the Skyway section):
Detroit and Toledo should both be used because a significant amount of traffic jump on I-94 from there. Then once I-80 joins I-90, South Bend and Toledo make sense. (Maybe this is how it is currently.)

Along I-55:
St. Louis is appropriate. I'm not sure what the secondary controls are there, but I'm sure they are fine.

Just answering a few of the questions you had. First of all, there is no mention of Detroit on the Bishop Ford at all, only Indiana as a control city. As for the Skyway, I'm pretty sure it is Indiana and Chicago that are the controls, but definently not Toledo or Detroit. Also, as far as I know South Bend has never been on any BGS in Illinois or Indiana. Indiana Toll Road controls are Ohio and Chicago and on the free part of 80/94 it is Chicago and Detroit, with Toledo mentioned around the I-65 interchange and points to the 80/94 split. Finally, the secondary controls on I-55 are Bloomington, Springfield and East St. Louis (seriously.)

Actually, there is no inbound control on the Skyway.  The outbound control is "Indiana" at the Ryan, and never mentioned again.  The next control seen is "Ohio" at the state line or just thereafter.

I-55 also has a secondary control of "Joliet" (as does I-80).

The only bgs where I've seen "South Bend" used is exit 40 on I-94 and the two South Bend exits on the Toll Road (72 and 77).  I've never even seen it in Michigan for US-31 along I-94.  That control thus far is "Niles"; however, "South Bend" is used along the US-31 freeway as a control so we might yet see "South Bend" along I-94 in the future for US-31.
Not entirely true Brandon. The control city that is used for the eastbound Skyway part of I-90 is "To Indiana Toll Rd" because of the direct connection and I-94 East at the Skyway Jct is the only only that gets "Indiana" so that travelers have a "free" option to the Skyway/Indiana Toll Rd.  Inbound on the Skyway, only at the entrance ramps from Indianapolis Blvd and 92nd St have signs that say "Chicago Loop".  The inbound Skyway itself just says on the BGSs "To Dan Ryan Expy".

To footballfan and AJB:
Just a slight correction to I-88 and what is actually used as CCs (secondary CC).
Eastbound I-88 uses in this order (Sterling-Rock Falls), (Dixon), Chicago
Westbound I-88 uses in this order Aurora, DeKalb, Moline-Rock Island
Eastbound I-88 from I-80 is signed as Sterling-Rock Falls with another smaller sign on I-80 that says one can reach Chicago via 88.  On the mainline east, Chicago does not get much of a mention until after the exit for Old Route 2 on a mileage sign (155 mi).  The first mention of Chicago on a BGS is is at Exit 44 at US 30 East, where I-88 becomes the Tollway. Interestingly, the CC for US 30 at this point is Joliet even though it is some 90 miles away because there are nothing but really small towns along 30 until one reaches Sugar Grove.  Anyway, Aurora is the 2nd largest city in the state and DeKalb is an important destination because of Northern Illinois University.
I knew it. I'm surrounded by assholes. Keep firing, assholes! - Dark Helmet (Spaceballs)

A.J. Bertin

Quote from: agentsteel53 on January 10, 2013, 10:45:19 AM
Quote from: InterstateNG on January 10, 2013, 10:07:29 AM

You know what's tiresome?  Midwest provincialism.

wait 'til they bring their footballdongs to this size contest.  as NE2 would say: yawn!

(though, in this case, I believe the problem was with the use of a state as a control city, not the specific state.)

Yes - my complaint was not about any particular state. That "Midwest provincialism" comment was ridiculous and didn't make sense in the context of what we were talking about. My complaint was about the use of states as control cities. That's why I said "Toledo" makes more sense than "Ohio".
-A.J. from Michigan

hbelkins

Does the Ohio Turnpike actually enter Toledo, or is it another case of I-70 in Dayton and I-79 in Pittsburgh?


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

tdindy88

It passes a lot closer to Toledo than I-70 does to Dayton. Looking at an Ohio map right now, it touches the southern boundary of the city (with Maumee to the south.)

hbelkins

Quote from: tdindy88 on January 30, 2013, 09:19:23 PM
It passes a lot closer to Toledo than I-70 does to Dayton. Looking at an Ohio map right now, it touches the southern boundary of the city (with Maumee to the south.)

Even though I-70 may not actually enter Dayton, it certainly enters the metro area. The commercial section along I-75 just south of I-70, with all the hotels and restaurants, certainly feels like part of Dayton, just as Miamisburg (south of Dayton where 75 and 675 meet) is, for all intents and purposes, part of Dayton.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

hobsini2

Quote from: rmsandw on January 02, 2013, 09:16:23 PM
Just a thought as I was driving home tonight...So on most Chicagoland interstates the control cities are the next state.

For example...

I-294  (Wisconsin/Indiana)
I-90  (Wisconsin/Indiana)
I-80 (Indiana/Iowa)
I-88 (Iowa...on some)
I-94 (Indiana/Wisconsin)

So the throught that came to mind was if the control city for I-57 and I-55 were changed...what would it be?

What came to mind was...

I-57...either (Missouri/Kentucky or Southern Illinois)
I-55...either (Central Illinois or Missouri)

I just noticed I missed this before in this post in regards to I-88. The first mention of Iowa on any sign heading west on 88 is just after the Route 31 interchange. Heading west on 88, the control cities used are Aurora, DeKalb, Moline-Rock Island. Other than the occasional mileage sign that says Iowa, there are no BGS overheads that say Iowa.
I knew it. I'm surrounded by assholes. Keep firing, assholes! - Dark Helmet (Spaceballs)

kphoger

Quote from: hbelkins on January 31, 2013, 10:54:20 AM
Quote from: tdindy88 on January 30, 2013, 09:19:23 PM
It passes a lot closer to Toledo than I-70 does to Dayton. Looking at an Ohio map right now, it touches the southern boundary of the city (with Maumee to the south.)

Even though I-70 may not actually enter Dayton, it certainly enters the metro area. The commercial section along I-75 just south of I-70, with all the hotels and restaurants, certainly feels like part of Dayton, just as Miamisburg (south of Dayton where 75 and 675 meet) is, for all intents and purposes, part of Dayton.

Just as Hazel Crest feels like part of Chicago, even though there are at least a few on here who don't feel that I-80 "serves" Chicago.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

Brandon

Quote from: kphoger on January 31, 2013, 02:39:56 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 31, 2013, 10:54:20 AM
Quote from: tdindy88 on January 30, 2013, 09:19:23 PM
It passes a lot closer to Toledo than I-70 does to Dayton. Looking at an Ohio map right now, it touches the southern boundary of the city (with Maumee to the south.)

Even though I-70 may not actually enter Dayton, it certainly enters the metro area. The commercial section along I-75 just south of I-70, with all the hotels and restaurants, certainly feels like part of Dayton, just as Miamisburg (south of Dayton where 75 and 675 meet) is, for all intents and purposes, part of Dayton.

Just as Hazel Crest feels like part of Chicago, even though there are at least a few on here who don't feel that I-80 "serves" Chicago.

Even though I-65, I-80, and I-88 never enter Chicago proper, they most definitely serve Chicago and Chicagoland/NW Indiana.

I'd say an interstate has to enter the metro area of a city to serve it, but defining a metro area isn't as easy as using the US Census metro/micro-politian areas.  It seems more subjective than that.
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg



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