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User Content => Road Trips => Topic started by: Zeffy on August 25, 2015, 11:37:05 PM

Title: Planning for Kings Dominion trip
Post by: Zeffy on August 25, 2015, 11:37:05 PM
So my sisters and I are going to take a small reprieve near the end of September to Kings Dominion amusement park in Virginia. While it's a month away, I would like to get everything out of the way early so that we don't run into any complications.

The ride will most likely utilize I-95 the entire way through. My question though regards the Capital Beltway in Maryland and Virginia - is this the preferred way? I-95 in Maryland wasn't bad at all when we went down there a month ago, but we didn't use the Capital Beltway at all for that trip. This one requires it since we need to get into Virginia. Looking at a map though, I'm not sure if I want to go clockwise or counterclockwise on the beltway. Alexandria traffic I would imagine isn't very light, but is going through the Tyson's Corner and Arlington area worse?

Once that's done, I-95 should be able to get us to the exit to Kings Dominion (exit 98) I would presume. Hopefully the traffic down in that part of Virginia won't be as terrible as it would be near DC.

So the routing is pretty sound, minus the Capital Beltway problem. Also, any alternative routes would be preferred for areas with known congestion. The current routing is:

US 206 -> I-95/I-295 -> I-95 (if I-295) -> I-95/I-495 -> I-95 -> Exit 98.

The second part is related to lodging - what's a good place to stay near Kings Dominion? There's a hotel on the amusement park lands itself, but it looks more like a motel and that's not really our style. I saw a LaQuinta Inn I believe right north of the park - anyone have any experience with that? The rooms don't look too bad price-wise. We plan to purchase one of those "skip ahead" passes because our previous luck at amusement parks has made it so we can't hit every ride. Naturally, since this one is one I've been dying to revisit, I want to hit everything I missed as a kid when we first went here (I was like 10 or something...).

Thanks for your help guys!
Title: Re: Planning for Kings Dominion trip
Post by: davewiecking on August 25, 2015, 11:59:24 PM
Time of day dependent, but I'd say stay on I-95 (east side of Beltway). Unless you want to see Virginia's fine I-495 Express Lanes. Biggest delays going west would be along the topside of the Bway, not Tyson's area.
Title: Re: Planning for Kings Dominion trip
Post by: HTM Duke on August 26, 2015, 01:33:42 AM
If you travel through the area before/after the weekday rush (~7 am/~6 pm) or during the mid-day (10 to 2), the Beltway should be all right.  If it's during the weekend, you shouldn't have much trouble at all.  And I would also advise against using the western half of the Beltway. The portion between I-95 and the American Legion Bridge has more kinks in its alignment than elsewhere, along with the interchanges with I-270 and I-66.

As for alternate routes along the I-95 corridor in Virginia, I'm struggling to find one.  If something ever goes awry on I-95, expect a lot of drivers to bail out onto US-1, thereby rendering that option moot.  In addition, north of the Triangle / Dumfries area, US-1 is a slow-go route full of signalized intersections.

With that said, if traffic conditions dictate, I'd recommend US-301 as a backup.  You can ride it down to VA-207, than pick that up westbound back to I-95, about six miles north of the VA-30 exit.  I will note, however, that there is a $4.00 toll for southbound traffic crossing the Nice Bridge from Maryland to Virginia.  Also, allow some time to drive through Waldorf, as it could be a slog.  (And if I-95 is a total disaster, one can also take US-301 south to VA-30 west.)

As for routing schematics, I see a couple of options:
1) I-95/I-495 south (Maryland) > MD-5 south > US-301 south > VA-207 west > I-95 south > VA-30 east
2) I-95 south (Baltimore) > I-895 south > I-97 south > US-50 west/US-301 south > US-301 south > VA-207 west > I-95 south > VA-30 east

Hopefully something from this helps.
Title: Re: Planning for Kings Dominion trip
Post by: jeffandnicole on August 26, 2015, 11:50:15 AM
The worst trouble I had on the Capital Beltway was during an evening rush hour with sunglare.  That sucked.  Outside of that, even normal rush hour congestion would be ok...it'll just be busy (and make some NJ traffic jams seem like a pleasant Sunday drive in the country!).

But unless there's something you want to check out, I wouldn't overthink this trip too much.  Take 295 in Jersey, then a straight shot down 95 is fine.  And honestly, I think either direction is fine on the Beltway...you can see the new Wilson bridge if you take the inner loop; the new express lanes on the outer loop.  The *only* concern would be if you go down on a Sunday when the Redskins are playing (9/13 & 9/20), in which case you'll want to take 495 West and go towards Tysons Corner (the outer loop).
Title: Re: Planning for Kings Dominion trip
Post by: froggie on August 26, 2015, 11:53:44 AM
- Point of clarification:  the Beltway does not touch Arlington County.

- As others have noted, traffic on the north and west sides of the Beltway is higher than the south and east side.

- Unless you want to slog clear out to Warrenton and backtrack on 2-lane country roads, the only realistic alternative to I-95 south of the Beltway is taking 301 across the Nice Bridge.

- Time of day is important, but unless there's an incident (or a Redskins game), the Beltway should be okay regardless of day/time between Largo and Oxon Hill, and west of Old Town Alexandria over to 95.

- I-95 south of the Beltway will back up in the afternoon, regardless of day-of-the-week.
Title: Re: Planning for Kings Dominion trip
Post by: oscar on August 26, 2015, 12:23:16 PM
Quote from: froggie on August 26, 2015, 11:53:44 AM
- Point of clarification:  the Beltway does not touch Arlington County.

I-395 cuts through Arlington County. If you want to go there, from I-95/495 take the Baltimore Washington Parkway south -> DC 295 (via a short segment of MD 201) -> I-695 -> I-395 -> I-95. However, that's vulnerable to delays on DC 295 (well below Interstate standards), and I-395 through downtown (including weekends, depending on the Washington Nationals schedule and major events downtown). So unless you really want to snag Arlington County, or you need to avoid a R*dsk*ns home game at FedEx Field, stay on the Beltway.

Quote from: froggie on August 26, 2015, 11:53:44 AM
- I-95 south of the Beltway will back up in the afternoon, regardless of day-of-the-week.

Can also be a mess on weekends, regardless of time-of-day. Listen to WNEW (99.1) or WTOP (103.5) before you need to commit to I-95.
Title: Re: Planning for Kings Dominion trip
Post by: froggie on August 26, 2015, 12:47:07 PM
My general experience with I-95 South is that it's okay on weekend mornings.
Title: Re: Planning for Kings Dominion trip
Post by: oscar on August 26, 2015, 12:50:18 PM
Quote from: froggie on August 26, 2015, 12:47:07 PM
My general experience with I-95 South is that it's okay on weekend mornings.

Mine is that it's particularly awful on Saturday mornings.
Title: Re: Planning for Kings Dominion trip
Post by: Mapmikey on August 26, 2015, 12:51:57 PM
Quote from: oscar on August 26, 2015, 12:23:16 PM

Quote from: froggie on August 26, 2015, 11:53:44 AM
- I-95 south of the Beltway will back up in the afternoon, regardless of day-of-the-week.

Can also be a mess on weekends, regardless of time-of-day. Listen to WNEW (99.1) or WTOP (103.5) before you need to commit to I-95.

Also note (in the event you have an EZ-Pass) that the I-95 express lanes from the Beltway to Garrisonville (exit 143) are run in the opposite direction on the weekends than during the week.  That is to say, in the mornings they are pointed southbound and in the afternoons northbound.

During the week I-95 backs up from US 1 (exit 126) or VA 3 (exit 130) to as far as Exit 143 nearly every week day.  Summer weekends have intermittent slow segments between the Beltway and Springfield.

If it were me, I would use 301 to VA 30 unless it were the height of rush hour (Waldorf MD is pretty bad then).  If it were the height of rush hour I would consider a catapult.  And if you don't have an EZ-Pass (or don't want to spend $20-25), afternoon rush down 95 mainline south will be painful Mon-Wed and downright agonizing on a Thur or Fri.

If you have internet capability in the car, you could look at this site to see what traffic is like on all the alternatives all at once:  http://www.sigalert.com/Map.asp?region=Washington+DC#lat=38.9323&lon=-77.04036&z=0

You can pan the map as far south as NC and as far north as Wilmington DE.

Mike
Going on 20 years of dealing with it...
Title: Re: Planning for Kings Dominion trip
Post by: jeffandnicole on August 26, 2015, 01:07:30 PM
Quote from: Mapmikey on August 26, 2015, 12:51:57 PM
Quote from: oscar on August 26, 2015, 12:23:16 PM

Quote from: froggie on August 26, 2015, 11:53:44 AM
- I-95 south of the Beltway will back up in the afternoon, regardless of day-of-the-week.

Can also be a mess on weekends, regardless of time-of-day. Listen to WNEW (99.1) or WTOP (103.5) before you need to commit to I-95.

Also note (in the event you have an EZ-Pass) that the I-95 express lanes from the Beltway to Garrisonville (exit 143) are run in the opposite direction on the weekends than during the week.  That is to say, in the mornings they are pointed southbound and in the afternoons northbound.

During the week I-95 backs up from US 1 (exit 126) or VA 3 (exit 130) to as far as Exit 143 nearly every week day.  Summer weekends have intermittent slow segments between the Beltway and Springfield.

If it were me, I would use 301 to VA 30 unless it were the height of rush hour (Waldorf MD is pretty bad then).  If it were the height of rush hour I would consider a catapult.  And if you don't have an EZ-Pass (or don't want to spend $20-25), afternoon rush down 95 mainline south will be painful Mon-Wed and downright agonizing on a Thur or Fri.

If you have internet capability in the car, you could look at this site to see what traffic is like on all the alternatives all at once:  http://www.sigalert.com/Map.asp?region=Washington+DC#lat=38.9323&lon=-77.04036&z=0

You can pan the map as far south as NC and as far north as Wilmington DE.

Mike
Going on 20 years of dealing with it...

Using 301 the entire way adds about 40-45 minutes.  I don't know if I'd recommend that. 

And I'm guessing the congestion you point out is rush hour congestion.  If he's not going during those peak times, I don't think 95 would be all that bad.
Title: Re: Planning for Kings Dominion trip
Post by: hbelkins on August 26, 2015, 02:02:44 PM
Redskins game on 9/13? Crap. That's the day I'm scheduled to drive to Annapolis (if I still go [semicolon] I'm thinking about not attending the conference I'm registered for) and I planned to take Corridor H, I-66, the outer loop counter-clockwise of 495 over to US 50.

The alternative is to go east via I-68/I-70/some route around the SW side of Baltimore)/I-97 and then return home via Corridor H, but that puts me traveling through the DC area on a weekday, which I'd hoped to avoid.

I should be getting off I-79 at Weston, WV onto Corridor H around 9[colon]30 a.m. on Sunday, so it's possible that the Skins game may have already kicked off by the time I'm in that area. Plus, I've never driven I-66 eastbound between I-81 and US 29, only westbound, so I would rather do that.


As for alternative routes, DE 896/US 301 across the Bay Bridge might be an option if you're looking for something that would allow for avoidance of most of I-95 and the Baltimore/DC areas.
Title: Re: Planning for Kings Dominion trip
Post by: Zeffy on August 26, 2015, 07:18:37 PM
Thanks for the input guys. We would most likely leave our house the night before we actually go to King's Dominion at probably like 6 or so since this is a 4 1/2 hour drive nearly. The dates we have planned are either September 26th or October 2nd. We also have EZPass and since my sister paid EVERY toll imaginable on the way down to Silver Spring I'd imagine she would pay the Virginia express lane tolls as well.
Title: Re: Planning for Kings Dominion trip
Post by: HazMatt on August 26, 2015, 07:20:08 PM
Quote from: HTM Duke on August 26, 2015, 01:33:42 AM
With that said, if traffic conditions dictate, I'd recommend US-301 as a backup.  You can ride it down to VA-207, than pick that up westbound back to I-95, about six miles north of the VA-30 exit.  I will note, however, that there is a $4.00 toll for southbound traffic crossing the Nice Bridge from Maryland to Virginia.  Also, allow some time to drive through Waldorf, as it could be a slog.  (And if I-95 is a total disaster, one can also take US-301 south to VA-30 west.)

Toll southbound was $6.00 when I went through there a month or two ago.
Title: Re: Planning for Kings Dominion trip
Post by: NJRoadfan on August 26, 2015, 07:40:42 PM
Quote from: oscar on August 26, 2015, 12:50:18 PM
Mine is that it's particularly awful on Saturday mornings.

If you hit it before 9am, you are usually fine. Its the reason why I leave NJ at 5am when I do my NC trips.
Title: Re: Planning for Kings Dominion trip
Post by: 1995hoo on August 26, 2015, 08:41:58 PM
Quote from: Zeffy on August 26, 2015, 07:18:37 PM
Thanks for the input guys. We would most likely leave our house the night before we actually go to King's Dominion at probably like 6 or so since this is a 4 1/2 hour drive nearly. The dates we have planned are either September 26th or October 2nd. We also have EZPass and since my sister paid EVERY toll imaginable on the way down to Silver Spring I'd imagine she would pay the Virginia express lane tolls as well.

If you're in the I-95 express lanes, pay attention to the segment-based tolls. In particular, if you're approaching the flyover to the local lanes marked for Route 619 at Quantico and the sign lists the toll to the southern end as being in excess of $10.00 (which it often does), you may as well exit and save the money. Bail out to US-1 by taking the second ramp at the Route 619 interchange if I-95 is really bad.

If you're going south on September 25 or 26, the Jersey Turnpike might be a better bet than I-295 because there will be a lot of people heading to Philadelphia for the Pope's visit. He arrives on the morning of September 26; the outdoor Mass on Benjamin Franklin Parkway is the following day. Note, also, the Baltimore Ravens have a home football game on September 27 and the stadium is right off I-95, so you may need to plan for that on your way home and take I-895 or I-695 if needed. The Redskins are off that weekend since the Redskins play on September 24 in the Meadowlands, but the Redskins are home against the Eagles on October 4, so if you come that weekend you should avoid the east side of the Beltway (but the Ravens play on the road on October 1).

The only time I've stayed overnight at Kings Dominion was on a Boy Scout trip in 1985 and we camped, so I can't offer lodging suggestions. But rather than stay there the night before you visit the park, you could try staying in the Fredericksburg area. Kings Dominion is at Exit 98 and Fredericksburg is served by Exits 133, 130, and 126, so it's about 30 miles south in the morning and you're ahead of a lot of the DC traffic. Exit 126, the Massaponax exit, has a lot of lodging and restaurants. (Route 1 goes through that interchange, so you could just go down that road to Kings Dominion if you wanted.....it's posted at 55 mph south of Massaponax as opposed to the 70-mph limit on I-95, but the road is usually empty.)

The Nice Bridge toll on Route 301 is indeed $6.00.

The best advice for the DC area is what Oscar said about the traffic reports. Listen to them multiple times since things change quickly if there's a wreck in the wrong place. WTOP's run "on the 8s" (x:08, x:18, etc.) and WNEW's are "on the 1s" (same principle). I find WNEW focuses a bit more on Maryland, including Baltimore, whereas WTOP usually mentions Baltimore only when something big happens.
Title: Re: Planning for Kings Dominion trip
Post by: Zeffy on August 26, 2015, 11:31:19 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on August 26, 2015, 08:41:58 PM
The best advice for the DC area is what Oscar said about the traffic reports. Listen to them multiple times since things change quickly if there's a wreck in the wrong place. WTOP's run "on the 8s" (x:08, x:18, etc.) and WNEW's are "on the 1s" (same principle). I find WNEW focuses a bit more on Maryland, including Baltimore, whereas WTOP usually mentions Baltimore only when something big happens.

I'm not gonna lie, I don't think anyone in my family listens to non XM radio anymore. There are very few moments when there isn't music playing from either satellite or an iPod.

Quote from: 1995hoo on August 26, 2015, 08:41:58 PM
If you're going south on September 25 or 26, the Jersey Turnpike might be a better bet than I-295 because there will be a lot of people heading to Philadelphia for the Pope's visit. He arrives on the morning of September 26; the outdoor Mass on Benjamin Franklin Parkway is the following day. Note, also, the Baltimore Ravens have a home football game on September 27 and the stadium is right off I-95, so you may need to plan for that on your way home and take I-895 or I-695 if needed. The Redskins are off that weekend since the Redskins play on September 24 in the Meadowlands, but the Redskins are home against the Eagles on October 4, so if you come that weekend you should avoid the east side of the Beltway (but the Ravens play on the road on October 1).

Fuck, I forgot about that entire thing. Getting out of New Jersey will be a bitch regardless, because I bet both I-295 and the Turnpike will be backed up to at least Exit 3 (NJ 168) with people flooding into Philadelphia.
Title: Re: Planning for Kings Dominion trip
Post by: froggie on August 27, 2015, 06:17:01 AM
That's a pity, as WTOP is by far the best radio-based source for DC traffic info.

You might be overstating the 295 and Turnpike traffic issues with the Pope, though I'd agree with Hoo that 295 is more likely to be affected.  I doubt there'd be much of a problem along the Turnpike given its indirect connections to Philadelphia.
Title: Re: Planning for Kings Dominion trip
Post by: 1995hoo on August 27, 2015, 07:23:35 AM
I normally listen to XM for music and sports, but I listen to FM for the traffic reports. XM has a DC/Baltimore traffic channel on Channel 134, but I seldom listen to it for two reasons. First, ever since they combined cities the report doesn't run on a continuous loop like it used to–the DC part runs every ten minutes on the 1s. That's the same as WNEW, which is a live report as opposed to XM's recorded loop. So that's less reason to listen to XM's. Second, I just have more confidence in the local reports. The reporters seem to understand the subject matter, whereas the XM reports are clearly just someone reading off a screen without thinking.

As far as the Turnpike/I-295 thing goes, I figured the Turnpike would be better both because it has less direct connections to Philadelphia and because it doesn't have the big construction project at I-76 to mess up traffic. I would not be surprised if there were a lot of people coming down from New York and New England who might use I-295 to get there.
Title: Re: Planning for Kings Dominion trip
Post by: Mapmikey on August 27, 2015, 07:45:27 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on August 26, 2015, 08:41:58 PM


If you're in the I-95 express lanes, pay attention to the segment-based tolls. In particular, if you're approaching the flyover to the local lanes marked for Route 619 at Quantico and the sign lists the toll to the southern end as being in excess of $10.00 (which it often does), you may as well exit and save the money. Bail out to US-1 by taking the second ramp at the Route 619 interchange if I-95 is really bad.


The only time I've stayed overnight at Kings Dominion was on a Boy Scout trip in 1985 and we camped, so I can't offer lodging suggestions. But rather than stay there the night before you visit the park, you could try staying in the Fredericksburg area. Kings Dominion is at Exit 98 and Fredericksburg is served by Exits 133, 130, and 126, so it's about 30 miles south in the morning and you're ahead of a lot of the DC traffic. Exit 126, the Massaponax exit, has a lot of lodging and restaurants. (Route 1 goes through that interchange, so you could just go down that road to Kings Dominion if you wanted.....it's posted at 55 mph south of Massaponax as opposed to the 70-mph limit on I-95, but the road is usually empty.)



There are also lodging options at VA 207 (exit 104).

There is still no firm correlation between how high the toll is in the last segment and whether the queue at the end is minimal or 3+ miles long.  If the VMS says to exit now (at the 619 flyover) to avoid delays then you really should do that.

After 3100+ commutes I know that bailing out onto US 1 anywhere north of Fredericksburg is almost never faster than just sticking with 95 unless 95 is all but closed.  You CAN make it work using secondary roads once you get below SR 610 Garrisonville whether headed for Fredericksburg specifically or anywhere south of it.  Requires at least 7 turns.  The reason is that you usually have to drive 20+ miles to clear the congestion on 95 and there are numerous stoplights on US 1 now, including two consecutive 4-phase signals at Stafford CH plus the one in Falmouth.  Also the speed limit on US 1 is 45 or less continuously from Woodbridge to SR 628 south of Stafford CH.

XM radio does have a DC traffic station but I haven't listened to it and cannot vouch for how good it may or may not be.

In truth, every bit of routing advice in this thread is the right thing to do on any given day or can make you regret you ever left the house.  The non-rush hour window in the DC-Baltimore area is very small during daylight hours and weekends are a crap shoot.  It does not take much to create real backups on 95 anywhere north of Richmond.  So my strategy these days is always to check the sigalert website before heading out then listening to WTOP a few times and make adjustments on the fly (sometimes I even use I-66 out past Manassas and come out at Exit 136 in Stafford County, though this would not help Zeffy) but to actually make better time than suffering along 95 you have to use a bunch of winding secondary routes which out-of-towners are not likely to know.

Mike

Title: Re: Planning for Kings Dominion trip
Post by: jeffandnicole on August 27, 2015, 08:57:17 AM
They are expecting some huge traffic issues with the Pope's visit in both NJ & PA. The problem is the Ben Franklin Bridge will be closed to traffic. This, in turns, will have numerous streets and highways closed in NJ.

It may be all hyperbole and not among to anything, but it's always enjoyable to read stories and announcements from NJDOT that states there will be gridlock, and lots of it.  Some fears include people just parking their cars on US 30 approaching the Ben Franklin Bridge along the curb lane and then walking to Philly...which is an actual lane and not a shoulder. Parking in neighborhoods near open train stations will be permitted, but temp restrictions will be in place to keep the roads at least passable. (Maybe I'll open up a separate topic about this...)

Fun stuff. Anyway, back to the highways: If Zeffy is planning on driving on the 26th, just keep a close eye on traffic reports. Taking the NJ Turnpike midday, when the festivities are going on, may be the best option of getting thru the area. 
Title: Re: Planning for Kings Dominion trip
Post by: 74/171FAN on August 27, 2015, 06:37:01 PM
From my experience at a Nationals game on July 5th (a Sunday back in 2009), I-95 was stop-and-go north of Richmond to Dumfries (the old beginning of the HOV Lanes) and got worse northbound as the day continued.  I would think I-95 should be okay northbound outside of summer normally. 


Quote from: Mapmikey on August 27, 2015, 07:45:27 AM
In truth, every bit of routing advice in this thread is the right thing to do on any given day or can make you regret you ever left the house.  The non-rush hour window in the DC-Baltimore area is very small during daylight hours and weekends are a crap shoot.  It does not take much to create real backups on 95 anywhere north of Richmond.  So my strategy these days is always to check the sigalert website before heading out then listening to WTOP a few times and make adjustments on the fly (sometimes I even use I-66 out past Manassas and come out at Exit 136 in Stafford County, though this would not help Zeffy) but to actually make better time than suffering along 95 you have to use a bunch of winding secondary routes which out-of-towners are not likely to know.

Mike

Also from going to Nationals games, unless there is a wreck(one time I tried sneaking through on a Monday in January southbound before rush hour-a pothole right at US 17 closed the right lane and created a 10 mile backup by 3 PM), on Sundays 95 seems to be just fine later in the day outside of the obvious backup at the Occoquan River.  Before the widening of 95 from exits 160 to 166 around 2010, that backup would extend to the Springfield Interchange due to the lane drop at what is now VA 286. 

Mike, my question for you is how often does backups on weekends on 95 southbound extend beyond the Occoquan choke point these days(as in are there more backups besides that and the end of the HOT lanes in Garrisonville that I happen to get lucky and miss)?
Title: Re: Planning for Kings Dominion trip
Post by: Mapmikey on August 27, 2015, 10:25:58 PM
The last two times I drove to Woodbridge on a Saturday there were backups southbound in Dale City and further south.

I do not know if these were caused by wrecks or what.  It could be as simple as several semis trying to climb the hill at Exit 148 in near proximity to start the slowdowns...

Every weekend I cross the Fall Hill Ave bridge over 95 in Fredericksburg and it is frequently below speed in both directions on 95.

Mike
Title: Re: Planning for Kings Dominion trip
Post by: 1995hoo on August 29, 2015, 12:03:07 PM
In many ways, I think the following statement Mapmikey made is by far the most accurate thing anyone really can say:

QuoteIn truth, every bit of routing advice in this thread is the right thing to do on any given day or can make you regret you ever left the house.

I think one of the keys in the DC area is to be familiar with multiple routes to your destination and to be prepared to switch routes on the spur of the moment if something happens on the road like an overturned truck or a bad wreck or whatever. If I drive downtown to go to work, for example, it's not usually enough to listen to the traffic report before leaving and then decide on a route, because of course incidents can occur anywhere at any time. I always listen again en route before reaching some of the spots where I have to choose between two routes. I can think of any number of times over the years when I've changed routes due to a wreck on the 14th Street Bridge, or an overheight truck stuck in a tunnel downtown, or police activity slowing down a given road, or whatever. I think that sort of principle is all the more true on a longer-distance trip like New Jersey to Kings Dominion.

Assuming I were coming down I-95 or the BW Parkway, I would definitely listen to traffic reports as I approached the Beltway so as to decide whether to go east or west. I'd listen again as I approached the Wilson Bridge (from the east) or Springfield (from the west) to decide whether to use I-95 south from Springfield or some other option. Then I'd listen again somewhere between Woodbridge and Dumfries. If instead I were coming down I-97 in Maryland, I'd listen before reaching Route 50 to decide whether I should take that to the Beltway or whether I should stay straight onto Route 301 over the Nice Bridge.

Also, as I noted before, if you want to listen to the XM traffic report, that's better than nothing, but be aware it's a prerecorded loop that is not necessarily updated every time. The local FM stations use live traffic reporters, so their reports are, in my experience, more reliable in terms of keeping you current. (Most of the local traffic reporters don't use exit numbers and will refer to some roads by name and some by number, so if you don't know the roads, it might not be a bad idea to have the front-seat passenger looking at a map to see whether they mention any upcoming areas on your route.)
Title: Re: Planning for Kings Dominion trip
Post by: Zeffy on September 13, 2015, 12:26:03 PM
Well, looks like this has been pushed back until the 2nd week of October, which I'm fine with, because I think the weather will be much nicer anyways. Hopefully that provides for some more options!
Title: Re: Planning for Kings Dominion trip
Post by: noelbotevera on September 13, 2015, 01:37:53 PM
My two cents is that if you feel like you want to avoid all the big cities along the way, use I-78 to I-81. Then take I-81 to I-70 EB to I-270, and then at the Capital Beltway, it's a clear shot to Richmond and Kings Dominion. This does add more time, but it skips out on the big cities altogether and lets you skip to Washington DC, the last city you'll be passing through before hitting Kings Dominion.
Title: Re: Planning for Kings Dominion trip
Post by: 1995hoo on September 13, 2015, 02:37:26 PM
I'd say going down I-81 to I-70 is too far out of the way because US-15 to Frederick is far more direct and moves right along at 60 to 65 mph for most of the way (speed limits vary; generally 55 in Maryland, 65 in Pennsylvania near Gettysburg, and lower further to the north towards Harrisburg). You emerge at the same place you'd reach via I-81 and I-70 but without wasting time going all the way to Hagerstown.
Title: Re: Planning for Kings Dominion trip
Post by: noelbotevera on September 13, 2015, 02:55:10 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on September 13, 2015, 02:37:26 PM
I'd say going down I-81 to I-70 is too far out of the way because US-15 to Frederick is far more direct and moves right along at 60 to 65 mph for most of the way (speed limits vary; generally 55 in Maryland, 65 in Pennsylvania near Gettysburg, and lower further to the north towards Harrisburg). You emerge at the same place you'd reach via I-81 and I-70 but without wasting time going all the way to Hagerstown.
It depends. Some parts of US 15 are not freeway north of Frederick until the PA state line. You do get a freeway segment south of Gettysburg though. I slog through Hagerstown cause I find it faster to hit I-81 Exit 10 rather than head to Gettysburg, which is 24 miles from here.
Title: Re: Planning for Kings Dominion trip
Post by: 1995hoo on September 13, 2015, 03:17:21 PM
Yeah, I know where those couple of traffic lights are through the small commercial zone in the Dillsburg area. I've never found them to slow the trip all that much. In Maryland Route 15 is almost all expressway-grade until you reach Frederick, but it's a quick drive. The fact that it's not a "freeway" isn't a reason to avoid it.

Coming from Chambersburg the Hagerstown route would indeed probably make more sense given how far down it is. But from Harrisburg you're basically taking the two sides of a triangle of you go that way, whereas going via Gettysburg essentially uses the more direct hypotenuse. (Oversimplification to be sure, but a fair way to think about it.)
Title: Re: Planning for Kings Dominion trip
Post by: froggie on September 14, 2015, 12:09:20 PM
Given the OP's origin, even going to Harrisburg is going out of the way for a lot of extra mileage and basically zero time savings.  Nevermind that Noel's suggestion puts one on the 2nd busiest section of the DC Beltway plus the slog that is 270 (which IMO is orders of magnitude worse than 95 in Maryland).
Title: Re: Planning for Kings Dominion trip
Post by: noelbotevera on September 14, 2015, 03:40:28 PM
I-95 is really a mixed bag in every state but Maine. Sometimes backups can be endless, but sometimes it can be smooth flowing. I don't really know if it's better safe than sorry, because I've been on I-270 at night between the southern terminus and I-370 and it was smoothly flowing. The only time I-270 had a bad backup was the last time I went to DC and it wasn't so bad.
Title: Re: Planning for Kings Dominion trip
Post by: 1995hoo on September 14, 2015, 08:28:42 PM
Quote from: froggie on September 14, 2015, 12:09:20 PM
Given the OP's origin, even going to Harrisburg is going out of the way for a lot of extra mileage and basically zero time savings.  Nevermind that Noel's suggestion puts one on the 2nd busiest section of the DC Beltway plus the slog that is 270 (which IMO is orders of magnitude worse than 95 in Maryland).


Yeah, I was just responding to his point about I-78 to I-81. If I were going to go that way to the I-95 corridor in Virginia, I'd always opt for Route 15 for the reasons I already stated, unless of course I had a reason why I needed to stop in Hagerstown or Winchester or some such.
Title: Re: Planning for Kings Dominion trip
Post by: Mapmikey on September 14, 2015, 08:45:40 PM
Going via Winchester could make some sense in certain situations if one used I-66 to US 17 to Fredericksburg

Mike
Title: Re: Planning for Kings Dominion trip
Post by: 74/171FAN on September 15, 2015, 12:16:24 AM
Quote from: Mapmikey on September 14, 2015, 08:45:40 PM
Going via Winchester could make some sense in certain situations if one used I-66 to US 17 to Fredericksburg

Mike

OT, but is US 15 terrible between US 29 south of Haymarket and US 340?  I always thought that I had to sneak over to I-81 or else trouble to head towards Harrisburg, I do know that the part north of Leesburg is apparently unsafe.
Title: Re: Planning for Kings Dominion trip
Post by: Mapmikey on September 15, 2015, 06:23:00 AM
Quote from: 74/171FAN on September 15, 2015, 12:16:24 AM
Quote from: Mapmikey on September 14, 2015, 08:45:40 PM
Going via Winchester could make some sense in certain situations if one used I-66 to US 17 to Fredericksburg

Mike

OT, but is US 15 terrible between US 29 south of Haymarket and US 340?  I always thought that I had to sneak over to I-81 or else trouble to head towards Harrisburg, I do know that the part north of Leesburg is apparently unsafe.

US 15 around Leesburg can be pretty bad although removing the intersection at SR 643 just south of VA 7 EB split (no idea if construction related to this is still ongoing) should improve this greatly.  When the 643 stoplight was there it backed 15 SB way up and it was actually faster to use 15 Business through Leesburg than the bypass. 

North of Leesburg, especially NB, 15 is slow during typical afternoon rush hour times all the way to Point of Rocks.  Lucketts has heavy speed enforcement.  Speed limit from Leesburg to MD is 45 outside of Lucketts.  There are a fair number of accidents on 15 between Lucketts and MD.

In Maryland, US 15 is fast once you clear the roundabout at MD 464 and I believe the accident rate on 15 is high.

South of Leesburg 15 is being built up, so there is more local traffic than there used to be.  The Gilberts Corner (US 50) area is also now slower because there are 2 roundabouts to navigate to remain on US 15.

US 15 can also be pretty busy in the I-66 to VA 55 area as there are several large developments north of I-66.

That said, if I am in Frederick MD and it is a weekday, I will use US 15 to US 17 instead of I-270 and I-95 because it is likely still faster on 15 despite its flaws.  If it is a weekend I do the opposite.

US 15 at night is full of deer.

Mike
Title: Re: Planning for Kings Dominion trip
Post by: froggie on September 15, 2015, 06:58:59 AM
QuoteThe Gilberts Corner (US 50) area is also now slower because there are 2 roundabouts to navigate to remain on US 15.

Given how the old Gilberts Corner signal operated, I think things are actually better with the roundabouts.  However, I do agree with this statement:

QuoteThat said, if I am in Frederick MD and it is a weekday, I will use US 15 to US 17 instead of I-270 and I-95 because it is likely still faster on 15 despite its flaws.  If it is a weekend I do the opposite.
Title: Re: Planning for Kings Dominion trip
Post by: 1995hoo on September 15, 2015, 07:21:30 AM
Also note that Route 15's interchange with I-66 is slated for reconstruction, independent of the proposal to build HO/T lanes on the Interstate. I don't know when the interchange work is supposed to begin, but the plan is to convert it to a DDI. It'd make some sense to defer the work until it's decided whether and how they'll rebuild I-66, but the interchange certainly does need an overhaul either way.

It's funny this question came up now. We met some friends at Tysons on Saturday and three of them live up in Damascus. There was a diesel spill on the Beltway and the traffic monitors at the mall were quoting 102 minutes to Rockville, so our friends went up to Point of Rocks and took 15 to Frederick. They said the problem was everyone else had the same idea. But they still got home more quickly than they would have on the Beltway and I-270.
Title: Re: Planning for Kings Dominion trip
Post by: Mapmikey on September 15, 2015, 07:41:33 AM
Quote from: froggie on September 15, 2015, 06:58:59 AM
QuoteThe Gilberts Corner (US 50) area is also now slower because there are 2 roundabouts to navigate to remain on US 15.

Given how the old Gilberts Corner signal operated, I think things are actually better with the roundabouts.  However, I do agree with this statement:




Generally my experience with US 15 through the stoplight had always been pretty decent.  It always looked like US 50 through there was slow, though...

Mike
Title: Re: Planning for Kings Dominion trip
Post by: Thing 342 on September 15, 2015, 08:38:25 AM
I took the US-340 to US-15 route on the way home from Harper's Ferry, and found it to be a pretty slow go once you got into VA. The growth of the DC exurbs has led to a ton of additional traffic on the route, especially on the Leesburg "Bypass". Most of it is also posted at 45 MPH IIRC, so that doesn't help.
Title: Re: Planning for Kings Dominion trip
Post by: froggie on September 15, 2015, 09:22:49 AM
Quote from: 1995hooAlso note that Route 15's interchange with I-66 is slated for reconstruction, independent of the proposal to build HO/T lanes on the Interstate. I don't know when the interchange work is supposed to begin, but the plan is to convert it to a DDI. It'd make some sense to defer the work until it's decided whether and how they'll rebuild I-66, but the interchange certainly does need an overhaul either way.

One won't preclude the other...and upgrading the interchange is a far more pressing need than HOT lanes on 66.

Quote from: Thing342Most of it is also posted at 45 MPH IIRC, so that doesn't help.

Only between Leesburg and Point of Rocks is 15 consistently 45 MPH.  It's 55 MPH north of Point of Rocks as well as most of the leg between Haymarket and Leesburg (it's certainly posted 55 MPH at the 234 intersection, unless things have changed in the past year-and-a-half).  About half the section between Haymarket and US 29 is also 55 MPH.
Title: Re: Planning for Kings Dominion trip
Post by: hbelkins on September 15, 2015, 02:11:54 PM
How far west of US 15 at Haymarket would the HOT lanes go? There is some kind of project currently underway on I-66 that begins west of that exit and proceeds through it.

My (admittedly limited) experience is that US 15 is the boundary between very heavy traffic on 66 and traffic indicative of a normal rural interstate. My journey through the interchange Sunday was anecdotal evidence of that.

And a DDI will probably help there. Traffic was very heavy at that interchange and also at the VA 55 intersection. I gassed up at Sheetz and then pulled back onto northbound 15 to get back on I-66. I had to wait an inordinate amount of time before I could pull onto 15, and the light there seemed to back traffic up to the Sheetz entrance/exit.
Title: Re: Planning for Kings Dominion trip
Post by: Mapmikey on September 15, 2015, 04:01:29 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 15, 2015, 02:11:54 PM
How far west of US 15 at Haymarket would the HOT lanes go? There is some kind of project currently underway on I-66 that begins west of that exit and proceeds through it.

My (admittedly limited) experience is that US 15 is the boundary between very heavy traffic on 66 and traffic indicative of a normal rural interstate. My journey through the interchange Sunday was anecdotal evidence of that.

And a DDI will probably help there. Traffic was very heavy at that interchange and also at the VA 55 intersection. I gassed up at Sheetz and then pulled back onto northbound 15 to get back on I-66. I had to wait an inordinate amount of time before I could pull onto 15, and the light there seemed to back traffic up to the Sheetz entrance/exit.

The project currently underway is to add a regular lane and an HOV lane from slightly west of US 15 to US 29.  It will look just like 66 does east of US 29.  Scheduled to open Aug '16.

Mike
Title: Re: Planning for Kings Dominion trip
Post by: 1995hoo on September 15, 2015, 08:33:56 PM
Quote from: froggie on September 15, 2015, 09:22:49 AM
Quote from: 1995hooAlso note that Route 15's interchange with I-66 is slated for reconstruction, independent of the proposal to build HO/T lanes on the Interstate. I don't know when the interchange work is supposed to begin, but the plan is to convert it to a DDI. It'd make some sense to defer the work until it's decided whether and how they'll rebuild I-66, but the interchange certainly does need an overhaul either way.

One won't preclude the other...and upgrading the interchange is a far more pressing need than HOT lanes on 66.

....

Definitely agreed on the priority. When I posted that this morning, what I couldn't remember and didn't have the time to look up was whether any of the HO/T proposals involved a dedicated exit at Route 15. My thought was that if any of them did, it might make sense to wait on the work until they'd decided what they were going to do, simply to avoid building something only to turn around and rip it up to modify it. But I just now looked at the diagrams online and there are no dedicated ramps planned, so it certainly makes sense to move on it as part of the current widening.

What would be nice is if they could also eliminate the at-grade railroad crossing just south of there. During the years of construction in Gainesville I occasionally wondered whether the new configuration there, when complete, might reduce the number of people who use Route 15 as a bypass. After a couple of trips through that area this summer, I kind of doubt it will have a huge effect on that particular traffic just because there are so many annoying traffic lights on Route 29 between I-66 and Route 15, many of them new within the last five to ten years. If you take 29, you're going to get stuck at a couple of red lights at some point, so a fair number of people will still take 15 because it has way fewer lights.

BUT in the overall scheme of things, there are other projects that need to be higher priorities than eliminating that grade crossing. I've sometimes gone further west to the Great Meadow exit and turned south on Route 17 to connect to Route 29 outside Warrenton when I've been headed to Charlottesville on Friday nights and the line to exit at Haymarket was too long. Longer distance, but it didn't take all that much longer in terms of time.
Title: Re: Planning for Kings Dominion trip
Post by: Zeffy on September 15, 2015, 09:37:03 PM
Quote from: froggie on September 14, 2015, 12:09:20 PM
Given the OP's origin, even going to Harrisburg is going out of the way for a lot of extra mileage and basically zero time savings.  Nevermind that Noel's suggestion puts one on the 2nd busiest section of the DC Beltway plus the slog that is 270 (which IMO is orders of magnitude worse than 95 in Maryland).

There's no chance I would go all the way out to Harrisburg and down 81 just to get to Doswell. And yeah, although I haven't personally driven it yet, I-270 looks like it would be a clusterfuck judging by the area its in, and the fact that Gaithersburg, Frederick and Rockville are all decently sized small cities.

Google Maps suggests taking the Baltimore-Washington Parkway (MD 295) down to the Capital Beltway instead of taking I-95 through Baltimore. I seem to remember us taking MD 295 when our class went to the Holocaust Museum, because I can definitely remember seeing some of the same general area as I do looking at photos on AARoads / GMSV, and I don't remember it being bad. I feel like that's probably a viable alternative. Any thoughts on that?

Still, I would love to get off the highway and experience US 301...
Title: Re: Planning for Kings Dominion trip
Post by: 1995hoo on September 15, 2015, 09:52:15 PM
The BW Parkway is a more scenic drive, especially during the fall when the leaves are turning, but do note it's only two lanes per side for most of its length and the speed limit is 55 mph (unless it's been changed recently). I-95 is four lanes per side between the Beltways and carries a 65-mph speed limit (which is unlikely to go up in two weeks when the 70-mph law takes effect). If you're going through during rush hour, I-95 is almost certainly the better option. At other times, the Parkway is usually fine as long as you accept that it's hard to go as fast on there as you could on the Interstate.

I've taken a liking to using I-97 instead of either of the aforementioned routes. I've tried both I-97 to MD-3 to US-50 and I-97 all the way to US-50; in either case, I then take 50 west to the Beltway. The latter route is a bit out of the way due to the added distance involved in going almost all the way to Annapolis, but I found it to be marginally faster due to eliminating several traffic lights on Route 3. Also, while Route 50 is posted at 65 mph, I'd say traffic moves closer to 75—80 if things are free-flowing.

Regarding I-270, it can be fine, but it can be awful. I find the biggest problem on there is usually the disproportionate number of extremely aggressive drivers. You could be doing 80 in a 55 zone and someone would tailgate you for being too slow. I usually just get in the second lane from the right (out of four), set my cruise control at 65, and laugh at the people having conniptions because they think I'm not going fast enough.
Title: Re: Planning for Kings Dominion trip
Post by: 74/171FAN on September 16, 2015, 12:02:22 AM
I drove I-270 for the first time a few weeks ago around 1 pm.  The best way to describe what hoo is saying IMO is to think of a NASCAR race at Daytona and Talladega from what I saw that day.  :pan:
Title: Re: Planning for Kings Dominion trip
Post by: froggie on September 16, 2015, 08:37:02 AM
QuoteGoogle Maps suggests taking the Baltimore-Washington Parkway (MD 295) down to the Capital Beltway instead of taking I-95 through Baltimore. I seem to remember us taking MD 295 when our class went to the Holocaust Museum, because I can definitely remember seeing some of the same general area as I do looking at photos on AARoads / GMSV, and I don't remember it being bad. I feel like that's probably a viable alternative. Any thoughts on that?

As a general rule, 95 is more reliable.  BW Parkway will often clog up, even on weekends.
Title: Re: Planning for Kings Dominion trip
Post by: Mapmikey on September 16, 2015, 09:27:18 AM
Quote from: Zeffy on September 15, 2015, 09:37:03 PM


Still, I would love to get off the highway and experience US 301...

301 is fairly busy but outside of rush hour moves OK.  Biggest potential for hang-ups is from the MD 5 north split south through Waldorf.  This can be really bad during a rush hour.

The Potomac River Bridge can back up on busy travel days SB due to the toll booth.

In Virginia once you clear the Dahlgren area (first 3 miles into Virginia) it would be pretty much wide open and rural to VA 30.

Mike

Title: Re: Planning for Kings Dominion trip
Post by: Zeffy on October 07, 2015, 11:40:43 PM
So we're leaving Friday at about 4 PM (right after work) to hopefully beat some of the traffic we'll encounter heading south. We'll be staying literally across the street from the park, so no need to worry about rushing in the mornings.

On Sunday, we might linger in Richmond for a bit before heading back to New Jersey. Anyone know anything that would be worthwhile to see in Richmond? I know a lot of Confederate items still exist in the former capital of the Confederacy, so that might be fun to peruse.
Title: Re: Planning for Kings Dominion trip
Post by: Rothman on October 08, 2015, 06:28:48 PM
The Virginia State Capitol's worth a visit.
Title: Re: Planning for Kings Dominion trip
Post by: Zeffy on October 10, 2015, 09:28:42 PM
Currently in Doswell, VA... Damn this state is rather pretty and much different compared to my native homelands of New Jersey. The ride down was filled with congestion, monster thunderstorms and aggressive driving, but it was a decent trip... We left at 4:15 from work in Ewing, NJ and it took a total of 5 1/2 hours to get to the hotel. The only stop was at the Chesapeake House in Maryland for some food and a bathroom break.

Tomorrow is the tour of Richmond before heading back up north.