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Garden State Parkway

Started by Roadrunner75, July 30, 2014, 09:53:00 PM

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roadman65

Should not Cape May be used south of AC?

Also the ACE uses "New York" as northbound control city at Exit 7N which are the ramps to the Parkway North.  So like it or not, the NJTA has "New York" because they have no control over the Expressway's signage.  I believe that will be (and has been) the only instance that NYC is used on the whole entire system.

Yes The Parkway does not go directly to NYC, but it enters its metro area though and being there are a lot of motorists going between AC and NYC it is fitting to use "New York" or even "New York City" at the Parkway and Expressway interchange.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe


NJRoadfan

There are currently no pull-thru overhead signs south of the Atlantic City Expressway, that is why Cape May is not specified as a control city in NJTA's standard drawings. Northbound pull-thrus north of Atlantic City use Toms River.

roadman65

Quote from: NJRoadfan on May 16, 2015, 03:48:21 PM
There are currently no pull-thru overhead signs south of the Atlantic City Expressway, that is why Cape May is not specified as a control city in NJTA's standard drawings. Northbound pull-thrus north of Atlantic City use Toms River.
What about a pull through at the ACE interchange proper? Or they planning not to use one being its two lanes and US 40/322 exits soon after, especially now with the NJTA reconfiguring the ACE merge and Exit 37 off ramp?
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

mrsman

Quote from: roadman65 on May 16, 2015, 03:23:27 PM
Should not Cape May be used south of AC?

Also the ACE uses "New York" as northbound control city at Exit 7N which are the ramps to the Parkway North.  So like it or not, the NJTA has "New York" because they have no control over the Expressway's signage.  I believe that will be (and has been) the only instance that NYC is used on the whole entire system.

Yes The Parkway does not go directly to NYC, but it enters its metro area though and being there are a lot of motorists going between AC and NYC it is fitting to use "New York" or even "New York City" at the Parkway and Expressway interchange.


Yes, this is why I recommended New York City on my earlier post. 

IMO, control cities should not list every city that a freeway passes through, but rather to the extent that they pass near or in the direction of a major city, those should be mentioned.

So the Parkway does serve as the connection from the NJ shore to NYC.  Traffic continuing to NYC should then take a bridge or a tunnel, most of which connect to the NJTP.  North of the NJTP, the northbound Parkway will serve Paterson and provide a connection to the NY Thruway to Albany.

Alps

Quote from: NJRoadfan on May 16, 2015, 12:37:27 AM
Quote from: mrsman on May 15, 2015, 03:17:31 PM
Control city ideas:

NB: New York City (until I-95 interchange); Clifton; Albany, NY
SB: Clifton; Woodbridge; Atlantic City; Cape May

Control City Reality (direct from NJTA)
Albany (NB only)
Paterson
Newark
Woodbridge
Toms River
Atlantic City

Older signs have used Asbury Park (at the local-express split), and there is at least one sign showing Cape May southbound in the vicinity of US-40/322.
Makes one wonder where Shore Points came from.

02 Park Ave

There is an unrestrained irrational attraction to the allurement of The Shore in this state.
C-o-H

NJRoadfan

Here is the one Cape May sign: https://goo.gl/maps/AWAMb
Northbound is signed Toms River and Camden (for the ACE).

It's odd to see Shore Points considering NJDOT is getting away from using it. At least it doesn't say "Down the Shore".  :-D

roadman65

That is on the entrance from Fire Road.  Yes, its very odd that "Camden" is used here, but many from AC get on the highway here and there is just as much from New York as there is for Philly that visit AC.

Also, there are no intermediate points along the ACE, so that is why "Camden" is used for that.  Because you have "Toms River" and "Woodbridge" in between AC and NYC, is why "New York" is not used here.

I must say, at least these are something, as for years the GSP only used control cities in two places: NJ 17 South in Paramus, and NJ 37 in Toms River.  The ACE signs there own so the control cities at Exit 7 is not GSP or NJTA so I did not count it.  The only reason why NJ 37 had them is cause US 9 is concurrent with the GSP at its interchange with the GSP so those signs were mainly for US 9 more than the GSP.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

NJRoadfan

The onramp at NJ-4 West has Saddle Brook as a control city for the GSP for some reason. Also can they make up their mind with what the maximum weight limit is for trucks? Some signs say 3.5 tons max and others (including the standard drawings) say 5 tons.

roadman65

Saddle Brook?  Really?  I mean who goes there.  Yes its the connection to I-80, but with Clifton or even better yet Newark would be the better choices.

What gets me is that Newark is the control point for NJ 17 all the way down, where NJ 17 stops way short of that city.  I believe on NJ 4,it says Newark just nearby  for Route 17 south when from Paramus, the GSP is the better route to NJ largest city.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

bzakharin

Quote from: roadman65 on May 17, 2015, 08:03:03 PM
That is on the entrance from Fire Road.  Yes, its very odd that "Camden" is used here, but many from AC get on the highway here and there is just as much from New York as there is for Philly that visit AC.
It's interesting that Atlantic City is not mentioned, and exiting traffic here is routed onto Fire Road and the Black Horse Pike for AC. I've made the trip both ways, and there is a lot of local traffic on the Black Horse Pike (and even more on Fire Road) making teh extra 75 cents more than worth it. This despite my beach of choice being Albany Street beach, which is directly served by the Black Horse Pike.
Quote
Also, there are no intermediate points along the ACE, so that is why "Camden" is used for that.  Because you have "Toms River" and "Woodbridge" in between AC and NYC, is why "New York" is not used here.
There is an intermediate point signed elsewhere, the AC Airport, but the signage in that area routes you to Tilton Road for that, which might actually make sense (never did the drive in that direction, so don't know how badly Tilton Road backs up).

storm2k

Quote from: NJRoadfan on May 17, 2015, 11:07:23 PM
The onramp at NJ-4 West has Saddle Brook as a control city for the GSP for some reason. Also can they make up their mind with what the maximum weight limit is for trucks? Some signs say 3.5 tons max and others (including the standard drawings) say 5 tons.

I believe it's because 159 is signed for Saddle Brook and the idea is NJ-4 -> GSP SB -> Exit 159 for Saddle Brook.

Zeffy

Turnpike Authority to Hold Hearing On Proposals For New Garden State Parkway Interchange 0 in Lower Township

QuoteDrivers who use the last exit on Garden State Parkway in Cape May will get a chance to comment about proposals to improve that interchange on Wednesday.

Officials from the New Jersey Turnpike Authority, which runs the Parkway, will hold a second hearing about the project, starting at 3 p.m. in the Lower Township hall meeting room, 2600 Bayshore Road.

QuoteA formal hearing will be held starting at 4 p.m. with a presentation about the project to improve the intersection and an opportunity for residents and drivers to comment on it, he said.

The plan calls for modifying the interchange by reconstructing the intersection of the Parkway and Route 109 and adding a different jug handle to accommodate vehicles destined for the northbound Parkway, Feeney said.




In the comments of the article, someone posted the following, and I'm wondering if it's someone from here.. :biggrin:
QuoteThey should build the long talked about Cape May - Lewis bridge-tunnel. Then upgrade US-13 through DE, MD, and VA to interstate standards, along with US-17 through VA and NC. Steal back the improperly numbered intrastate interstate highway, I-99 from PA, and make that the coastal expressway. Now you;ll have a full fledged limited access expressway from Montvale to Wilmington NC. I say stop the highway in NC because that's where all of our residents are escaping to anyway
Life would be boring if we didn't take an offramp every once in a while

A weird combination of a weather geek, roadgeek, car enthusiast and furry mixed with many anxiety related disorders

jeffandnicole

Quote from: Zeffy on May 20, 2015, 11:57:25 AM
Turnpike Authority to Hold Hearing On Proposals For New Garden State Parkway Interchange 0 in Lower Township

The documents available on the Turnpike's website unfortunately don't really show much of a diagram, except for a small one on the cover page.

The most interesting feature of the design is a jughandle...in the median between the Northbound and Southbound lanes!  This is where the Parkway and 109 meet.  The uniqueness of this allows the northbound lanes from 109 to the Parkway to be free-flowing, while allowing enough storage capacity for both those continuing on 109 North (which turns west at this intersection), and using 109 South to the Parkway North.

It's a fairly tight area in which they had to reconstruct the intersection, but they are able to do it within existing NJTA/NJDOT right of way.  A grade-separated interchange was looked at, but environmental concerns and costs nixed the idea.

The comment about the bridge tunnel definitely sounds like something someone here would have knowledge of.  Let's look at that alias used there...  :spin:

02 Park Ave

Latest proposed list of control cities seems most logical and well thought out.
C-o-H

J Route Z

Quote from: noelbotevera on May 21, 2015, 10:47:17 PM
Quote from: NJRoadfan on May 16, 2015, 03:48:21 PM
There are currently no pull-thru overhead signs south of the Atlantic City Expressway, that is why Cape May is not specified as a control city in NJTA's standard drawings. Northbound pull-thrus north of Atlantic City use Toms River.
Here's my proposal for control cities along the GSP (to stop inconsistent control cities appearing)
NB: Atlantic City up to MP 41.2
Toms River up to MP 94.4
Asbury Park up to MP 101.5
Perth Amboy up to MP 131.2 - New York as a supplementary destination
Paterson up to MP 162.7
Albany for the rest of the GSP


SB: New York up to MP 160.4
Newark - Springfield (Springfield is a supplementary control city) up to MP 143
New Brunswick up to MP 129.4
Toms River up to MP 82.7
Atlantic City up to MP 39.2
Cape May for the rest

It's a great list. Though just one thing: take out New York on SB up to MP 160.4 and replace with Newark (maybe Springfield, or perhaps Union) and go up to MP 143. Most people I would think would use the NB Parkway to NY, even though a couple exits are for the tunnels.

The Ghostbuster

Have all the at-grade intersections in the southern portion been eliminated yet?

noelbotevera

Quote from: J Route Z on May 22, 2015, 04:26:23 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on May 21, 2015, 10:47:17 PM
Quote from: NJRoadfan on May 16, 2015, 03:48:21 PM
There are currently no pull-thru overhead signs south of the Atlantic City Expressway, that is why Cape May is not specified as a control city in NJTA's standard drawings. Northbound pull-thrus north of Atlantic City use Toms River.
Here's my proposal for control cities along the GSP (to stop inconsistent control cities appearing)
NB: Atlantic City up to MP 41.2
Toms River up to MP 94.4
Asbury Park up to MP 101.5
Perth Amboy up to MP 131.2 - New York as a supplementary destination
Paterson up to MP 162.7
Albany for the rest of the GSP


SB: New York up to MP 160.4
Newark - Springfield (Springfield is a supplementary control city) up to MP 143
New Brunswick up to MP 129.4
Toms River up to MP 82.7
Atlantic City up to MP 39.2
Cape May for the rest

It's a great list. Though just one thing: take out New York on SB up to MP 160.4 and replace with Newark (maybe Springfield, or perhaps Union) and go up to MP 143. Most people I would think would use the NB Parkway to NY, even though a couple exits are for the tunnels.
I meant New York City. The reason why New York is up to MP 160.4 is because of I-80 is nearby. Albany was used as the last control city because the GSP ends at I-87 in NY (if the GSP connector would be part of the GSP). I didn't specify that because of Albany being used, so New York would be used in this situation, cause of I-80 (and we all know where I-80 eastbound ends at, and we know that route heads to NYC. It's I-95.)

roadman65

I agree, New York should not be used as control city SB because most of the traffic there is from I-87, so I doubt anyone would exit the Thruway to go to NYC.  Newark is most appropriate for even the Exit 14A guide on The Thruway proper and should be up  until the Essex Toll Plaza where Woodbridge should take over.

BTW, I hate the fact the NYTA does not feel that NJ cities are worth mentioning on their signs.  Even Exits 15 and 13 use "New Jersey" as control points for I-287 and the PIP.  "Morristown" should be used at Exit 15, and either "Fort Lee" or even "New York" for the SB PIP as I am alright with that one as well.  Just do not refer to the Garden State as a whole city as its not.  It has places too and we sign all our roads into New York State with the cities in mind.

Sory about that last rant but you can take a man out of New Jersey, but you cannot take the New Jersey out of me.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

noelbotevera

Quote from: roadman65 on May 22, 2015, 06:26:20 PM
I agree, New York should not be used as control city SB because most of the traffic there is from I-87, so I doubt anyone would exit the Thruway to go to NYC.  Newark is most appropriate for even the Exit 14A guide on The Thruway proper and should be up  until the Essex Toll Plaza where Woodbridge should take over.

BTW, I hate the fact the NYTA does not feel that NJ cities are worth mentioning on their signs.  Even Exits 15 and 13 use "New Jersey" as control points for I-287 and the PIP.  "Morristown" should be used at Exit 15, and either "Fort Lee" or even "New York" for the SB PIP as I am alright with that one as well.  Just do not refer to the Garden State as a whole city as its not.  It has places too and we sign all our roads into New York State with the cities in mind.

Sory about that last rant but you can take a man out of New Jersey, but you cannot take the New Jersey out of me.
Alright, I listened and replaced "New York" with "Delaware Water Gap". Seems more sensible.    :-D

02 Park Ave

I've heard of GPSs directing drivers heading southbound to NYC on the Thruway to exit onto the Parkway and then take the I-80 to the GWB!
C-o-H

storm2k

Quote from: NJRoadfan on May 16, 2015, 12:29:44 AM
The replacement for this sign is sitting on the side of the road:


The new sign is almost right. The exit for New Brunswick Ave. is now signed for NJ-440 NORTH... the left sign.... NJ-440 WEST. Oops.

I drove past here today. I am surprised that this sign is being erected by NJDOT and not the NJTA. I thought it was NJTA property until the merge onto 9 past the New Brunswick Rd exit. But this is clearly an NJDOT sign, with the stainless steel gantry and shields with black backing.

roadman65

#397
I hope that they gave US 9 and NJ 440 Southbound the control city of "South Amboy" considering Exit 11 from the NJT uses "The Amboys" as control city for US 9 S Bound.  Also to include I-287 on the sign proper instead of on ground mounted shields like it has for well over 40 years.

Actually storm back in the 60's and 70's the GSP used gantries like this, and before the tangle was created this was an actual exit for New Brunswick Avenue from the Southbound Parkway carriageway.   I am not saying this is left over from that period, but a strong possibility that it might of been left over from then considering the reflective paint and lack of black border shields.  Just so you know before the tangle the GSP SB used current US 9 SB and the NB Parkway used the NB US 9 lanes.  US 9 ran through the middle of the Parkway with no access to or from New Brunswick Avenue. 
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

NJRoadfan

What I'd like to know is what happened to the brand new NJDOT signs that were there a year ago that later vanished.

roadman65

Being New Brunswick Avenue is in all caps, I would say this sign was put up by the Parkway.   NJDOT will use mix case, and always has as far as I know on BGSes.   Whether it was pre or post tangle I could not say for sure, but the GSP has always used all caps for street names and mix case for control cities or points until recently when the new signs started placing cities above the street names in a separate box.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe



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