News:

The AARoads Wiki is live! Come check it out!

Main Menu

Please don't use Photobucket

Started by ZLoth, February 20, 2018, 01:50:58 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

adventurernumber1

Quote from: seicer on March 02, 2018, 12:42:16 PM
Quote from: adventurernumber1 on March 02, 2018, 12:32:15 PM
Quote from: seicer on March 02, 2018, 12:09:54 PM
Because they were not making a profit. Their premium services were not generating enough revenue to cover the freeloaders. And who thinks that these "free" services are actually free? And why do people believe that these services need to be free and accessible to all for an indefinite period of time?

While I think it was harsh to make a sudden announcement that the freeloaders would have all of their images break - it's not out of the realm that other freemium services, like Imgur, will eventually follow suit.

Even if they weren't making a profit, it is absolutely disgusting that they would abruptly not only introduce a mandatory price, but make it hundreds of dollars. What if someone living in poverty was using Photobucket? What a bunch of fools they were - they probably scared off almost every single user they had, and now they have probably gotten hardly any money at all. Idiots.  :angry:

Make the price $5, $10, $20, and the revenue will add up. But $300? $500? Horse manure.

If someone is in poverty, there are other free services they can migrate to. Some of these free services do not allow hotlinking, which Photobucket did - and that starves the site of much-needed advertising revenue. And like what has stated above, Google and others only allow these freebie services (when they aren't truly free), because they can monetize your data.

It's akin to people complaining about Facebook or Instagram and the advertisements they host. Can you imagine the uproar if they went to a premium model? Or if they had a model where you could pay to dance around the ads? People expect these services to be free when in reality, they are very expensive ventures.

In the world of the web, nothing is indefinite and nothing is truly free. If you aren't paying for a service, you are having your data sold.

That's why I would never complain about advertisements, since I do realize there has to be monetization of some sort.

While advertisements may get slightly annoying at times, I have absolutely no problem with them, because it means I don't have to hand over my entire wallet to the site. Corporations being advertised profit, the site profits, and I profit, because I don't have to pay hundreds of dollars, or sometimes not even more than $0. That's what Photobucket should have done, but they instead took the sleazy way out, and deservedly they have highly lost popularity (as was shown in that link that 1 provided us).

YouTube does not require a fee to use, but it has lots of advertisements - fine with me, because I don't have to pay. But the site does offer YouTube Red, which gives you the ability to pay just a little bit of money for no more advertisements. I think that's great; you have that freedom on YouTube - you can deal with the advertisements, or you can pay a small fee to avoid them altogether. Photobucket gave you one option only, and that option was to pay those greedy goobers hundreds of dollars just to use it at all anymore. And that's ridiculous - and now there is no telling how many thousands of error photos are littering this forum, and we no longer know what they were.  :angry:
Now alternating between different highway shields for my avatar - my previous highway shield avatar for the last few years was US 76.

Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/127322363@N08/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-vJ3qa8R-cc44Cv6ohio1g


jeffandnicole

Quote from: 1 on March 02, 2018, 12:44:09 PM
Quote from: seicer on March 02, 2018, 12:42:16 PM

If someone is in poverty, there are other free services they can migrate to. Some of these free services do not allow hotlinking, which Photobucket did - and that starves the site of much-needed advertising revenue. And like what has stated above, Google and others only allow these freebie services (when they aren't truly free), because they can monetize your data.

It's akin to people complaining about Facebook or Instagram and the advertisements they host. Can you imagine the uproar if they went to a premium model? Or if they had a model where you could pay to dance around the ads? People expect these services to be free when in reality, they are very expensive ventures.

In the world of the web, nothing is indefinite and nothing is truly free. If you aren't paying for a service, you are having your data sold.

Flickr has no ads.

I won't vouch for the accuracy of the material, but this question was asked...and answered...here.

https://www.quora.com/How-does-Flickr-make-money

Brandon

Quote from: 1 on March 02, 2018, 12:37:02 PM
https://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/photobucket.com

I see Photofuckit tanked majorly after they introduced the $400 fee crappola.  No sweat off my brow, I only uploaded photos there that I had already stored in my personal hard drives.  I can always upload somewhere else.
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

J N Winkler

Quote from: adventurernumber1 on March 02, 2018, 12:55:20 PMThat's why I would never complain about advertisements, since I do realize there has to be monetization of some sort.

While advertisements may get slightly annoying at times, I have absolutely no problem with them, because it means I don't have to hand over my entire wallet to the site. Corporations being advertised profit, the site profits, and I profit, because I don't have to pay hundreds of dollars, or sometimes not even more than $0.

There doesn't actually have to be monetization.  The providers just need enough revenue to cover their costs, and to this end they can deploy business models that do not rely on data mining or pay-per-click advertising.  A lot of what makes the current Web so irritating to use and so dangerous to privacy and community cohesion is born out of a naked search for monopoly advantage through behavioral engineering.

One option to prevent the Photobucket problem from recurring in the future would be for AARoads to take forum image hosting in-house, possibly using a donor-supported model to cover the increased hosting costs that would result.  I appreciate that this option has been considered by forum managers in the past and been rejected.  However, managers are not chosen through democratic process and so their preferences may not necessarily reflect those of the forum membership as a whole.  (This is one reason I have suggested managers be elected; if the policy preferences of the current cadre of managers does not match those of the voting membership at large, then they can simply be thanked for their service and replaced.  This is, of course, a much wider discussion than just image hosting.)
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

vdeane

Quote from: Brandon on March 02, 2018, 01:02:52 PM
Quote from: 1 on March 02, 2018, 12:37:02 PM
https://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/photobucket.com

I see Photofuckit tanked majorly after they introduced the $400 fee crappola.  No sweat off my brow, I only uploaded photos there that I had already stored in my personal hard drives.  I can always upload somewhere else.
I can't imagine there's much of a market for them now.  Someone who wants to make photos accessible to friends or have people going to the site to view them is going to use Flickr, Instagram, or Facebook.  People with their own websites will just use their web hosting.  That leaves just people who want to hotlink to photos from sites like this one, and they aren't going to pay $400 to do it.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: J N Winkler on March 02, 2018, 01:35:54 PM
Quote from: adventurernumber1 on March 02, 2018, 12:55:20 PMThat's why I would never complain about advertisements, since I do realize there has to be monetization of some sort.

While advertisements may get slightly annoying at times, I have absolutely no problem with them, because it means I don't have to hand over my entire wallet to the site. Corporations being advertised profit, the site profits, and I profit, because I don't have to pay hundreds of dollars, or sometimes not even more than $0.

There doesn't actually have to be monetization.  The providers just need enough revenue to cover their costs, and to this end they can deploy business models that do not rely on data mining or pay-per-click advertising.  A lot of what makes the current Web so irritating to use and so dangerous to privacy and community cohesion is born out of a naked search for monopoly advantage through behavioral engineering.

One option to prevent the Photobucket problem from recurring in the future would be for AARoads to take forum image hosting in-house, possibly using a donor-supported model to cover the increased hosting costs that would result.  I appreciate that this option has been considered by forum managers in the past and been rejected.  However, managers are not chosen through democratic process and so their preferences may not necessarily reflect those of the forum membership as a whole.  (This is one reason I have suggested managers be elected; if the policy preferences of the current cadre of managers does not match those of the voting membership at large, then they can simply be thanked for their service and replaced.  This is, of course, a much wider discussion than just image hosting.)

Members can, and have, chosen to start up their own forum if they don't like how this forum is run.

webny99

Quote from: jeffandnicole on March 02, 2018, 01:48:50 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on March 02, 2018, 01:35:54 PM
However, managers are not chosen through democratic process and so their preferences may not necessarily reflect those of the forum membership as a whole.  (This is one reason I have suggested managers be elected; if the policy preferences of the current cadre of managers does not match those of the voting membership at large, then they can simply be thanked for their service and replaced.  This is, of course, a much wider discussion than just image hosting.)

Members can, and have, chosen to start up their own forum if they don't like how this forum is run.

That doesn't invalidate the concern. JN raises an interesting (and timely) topic, accompanied by a very understandable viewpoint, in my opinion. While I don't think this thread is the best place for that discussion, I would be interested in its continuance.

1995hoo

Another option for posting photos here that, as far as I know, is either free or minimal one-time cost (if there's a charge for the app) is to use Tapatalk and have it host the photo. I don't remember whether the app costs anything to get because I've had it for several years–another forum I joined before this one supported it and I got it for that forum.

I've uploaded photos here [/color][/size] since the Photobucket debacle and it seems to work fine, at least if I'm posting via mobile device.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: webny99 on March 02, 2018, 02:12:17 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on March 02, 2018, 01:48:50 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on March 02, 2018, 01:35:54 PM
However, managers are not chosen through democratic process and so their preferences may not necessarily reflect those of the forum membership as a whole.  (This is one reason I have suggested managers be elected; if the policy preferences of the current cadre of managers does not match those of the voting membership at large, then they can simply be thanked for their service and replaced.  This is, of course, a much wider discussion than just image hosting.)

Members can, and have, chosen to start up their own forum if they don't like how this forum is run.

That doesn't invalidate the concern. JN raises an interesting (and timely) topic, accompanied by a very understandable viewpoint, in my opinion. While I don't think this thread is the best place for that discussion, I would be interested in its continuance.

It's been discussed before.  I'm not going to be the one to impede on anyone's opportunity to discuss, but I don't think we have a need to have this discussion on a yearly basis. Feel free to view the thread.  https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=19530.0

adventurernumber1

Quote from: 1995hoo on March 02, 2018, 02:23:05 PM
Another option for posting photos here that, as far as I know, is either free or minimal one-time cost (if there's a charge for the app) is to use Tapatalk and have it host the photo. I don't remember whether the app costs anything to get because I've had it for several years–another forum I joined before this one supported it and I got it for that forum.

I've uploaded photos here on +apatalk since the Photobucket debacle and it seems to work fine, at least if I'm posting via mobile device.
(fixed the bolded, as for some reason typing "on +apatalk" results in whatever that is for some reason, from my own observations)



That's a great way to do it. I learned that very idea from you when you posted it on here around a few months ago (or more recently), and I have been utilizing it ever since - this is especially useful since for the past year I have had trouble uploading raw photos from my own phone to the computer - now I can post them directly from my phone to here via the Tapatalk app. It is great!  :nod:

Let's hope Tapatalk never takes the detestable route Photobucket did, though.  :paranoid:  :-/
Now alternating between different highway shields for my avatar - my previous highway shield avatar for the last few years was US 76.

Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/127322363@N08/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-vJ3qa8R-cc44Cv6ohio1g

J N Winkler

Quote from: jeffandnicole on March 02, 2018, 01:48:50 PMMembers can, and have, chosen to start up their own forum if they don't like how this forum is run.

They have, and the one example I am aware of was not successful.  Ultimately, I think there are enough returns to scale to having just one large Web forum dedicated to discussion of US/Canadian roads that this forum has a natural monopoly.

It's certainly a valid choice for management to continue to say No to suggested reforms even if this results in failing to meet identified needs, such as image hosting that does not leave users (or the forum's collective memory) at the mercy of third-party hosting providers.  Over the long run, however, I think we are all better off if we explore ways we can expand the service we provide to members while ensuring costs continue to be met.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

jeffandnicole

Quote from: J N Winkler on March 02, 2018, 02:37:05 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on March 02, 2018, 01:48:50 PMMembers can, and have, chosen to start up their own forum if they don't like how this forum is run.

They have, and the one example I am aware of was not successful.  Ultimately, I think there are enough returns to scale to having just one large Web forum dedicated to discussion of US/Canadian roads that this forum has a natural monopoly.

It's certainly a valid choice for management to continue to say No to suggested reforms even if this results in failing to meet identified needs, such as image hosting that does not leave users (or the forum's collective memory) at the mercy of third-party hosting providers.  Over the long run, however, I think we are all better off if we explore ways we can expand the service we provide to members while ensuring costs continue to be met.

I would imagine picture hosting is a large expense, due to the servers and space needed.

J N Winkler

Quote from: jeffandnicole on March 02, 2018, 02:53:34 PMI would imagine picture hosting is a large expense, due to the servers and space needed.

It is, but for a special-interest group such as this, it is one that may be amenable to donor support, depending on the (so far untested) willingness of members to contribute financially.  Another group I belong to relies on this mechanism to meet total forum expenses that include image self-hosting.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

hotdogPi

#63
Quote from: adventurernumber1 on March 02, 2018, 02:32:56 PM
Quote
I've uploaded photos here on +apatalk since the Photobucket debacle and it seems to work fine, at least if I'm posting via mobile device.
(fixed the bolded, as for some reason typing "on +apatalk" results in whatever that is for some reason, from my own observations)

It's "using Taρatalk" that's the problem.

Tapatalk messages automatically have "Sent frοm my X using Taρatalk" added at the end, where X can be one of many different things. "Sent frοm my" becomes [sıze=1pt][cοlor=white], and "using Taρatalk" becomes [/cοlor][/sıze].
Clinched, minus I-93 (I'm missing a few miles and my file is incorrect)

Traveled, plus US 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

I will be in Burlington VT for the eclipse.

MNHighwayMan

#64
Quote from: seicer on March 02, 2018, 12:09:54 PM
While I think it was harsh to make a sudden announcement that the freeloaders would have all of their images break - it's not out of the realm that other freemium services, like Imgur, will eventually follow suit.

Imgur actually used to have a paid pro membership, but they ditched it. I had it for a couple years because, back then, there was a limit to how many images an account could have. I'd be kind of surprised if it came back.

1995hoo

Quote from: 1 on March 02, 2018, 03:52:42 PM
Quote from: adventurernumber1 on March 02, 2018, 02:32:56 PM
Quote
I've uploaded photos here on +apatalk since the Photobucket debacle and it seems to work fine, at least if I'm posting via mobile device.
(fixed the bolded, as for some reason typing "on +apatalk" results in whatever that is for some reason, from my own observations)

It's "using Taρatalk" that's the problem.

Tapatalk messages automatically have "Sent frοm my X using Taρatalk" added at the end, where X can be one of many different things. "Sent frοm my" becomes [sıze=1pt][cοlor=white], and "using Taρatalk" becomes [/cοlor][/sıze].

Not if you set Tapatalk not to do that!
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

adventurernumber1

Quote from: 1 on March 02, 2018, 03:52:42 PM
Quote from: adventurernumber1 on March 02, 2018, 02:32:56 PM
Quote
I've uploaded photos here on +apatalk since the Photobucket debacle and it seems to work fine, at least if I'm posting via mobile device.
(fixed the bolded, as for some reason typing "on +apatalk" results in whatever that is for some reason, from my own observations)

It's "using Taρatalk" that's the problem.

Tapatalk messages automatically have "Sent frοm my X using Taρatalk" added at the end, where X can be one of many different things. "Sent frοm my" becomes [sıze=1pt][cοlor=white], and "using Taρatalk" becomes [/cοlor][/sıze].

Oh! I remembered it wrong, gotcha ("using +apa+alk," not "on Tapatalk"). Thank you for that very helpful information; now I know why that appears whenever that phrase is typed.  :-D
Now alternating between different highway shields for my avatar - my previous highway shield avatar for the last few years was US 76.

Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/127322363@N08/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-vJ3qa8R-cc44Cv6ohio1g

webny99

Quote from: jeffandnicole on March 02, 2018, 02:28:26 PMI don't think we have a need to have this discussion on a yearly basis. Feel free to view the thread.  https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=19530.0

And so I read it again, for at least the third time inside of a year. It's a healthy and mildly interesting discussion to have, regardless of whether it changes anything (and it rarely does).

MNHighwayMan

Quote from: webny99 on March 02, 2018, 05:42:53 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on March 02, 2018, 02:28:26 PMI don't think we have a need to have this discussion on a yearly basis. Feel free to view the thread.  https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=19530.0
And so I read it again, for at least the third time inside of a year. It's a healthy and mildly interesting discussion to have, regardless of whether it changes anything (and it rarely does).

The final comment in that thread is pure gold. :rofl:

hbelkins

As long as the hosting bill is being paid out of someone's personal funds, the decision on whether or not image hosting is allowed should be solely that person's decision. The expenditure of money is a lot different than moderation decisions, which were referenced in a link posted to a thread I started about that subject.

What if we do start some sort of GoFundMe-type situation for image hosting, and the costs for storage space and bandwidth go up, and then all of a sudden people stop contributing? What happens then?

Personally, I have at least four available sources of image hosting available to me -- an account in the Gallery portion of this forum, my website, Flickr, and a Facebook page -- so I wouldn't be inclined to contribute to a fund to provide hosting here. Facebook offers a pretty simple and free way to get your images online. Start a Facebook page (not a personal account, but a Page), upload your photos there, and link to them when you post here. I occasionally link to a photo on the Millennium Highway Facebook page and it works just fine.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

ZLoth

Quote from: 1995hoo on March 01, 2018, 09:26:05 PM
OK, let's see whether this works. I logged in through their website and copied the IMG link for a photo I'd uploaded some years ago. If it works, you should get a photo of the space shuttle Discovery atop the Shuttle Carrier Aircraft over Arlington Cemetery.
No joy. Photo broken.  :banghead:
I'm an Engineer. That means I solve problems. Not problems like "What is beauty?", because that would fall within the purview of your conundrums of philosophy. I solve practical problems and call them "paychecks".

adventurernumber1

#71
Quote from: ZLoth on March 03, 2018, 12:45:25 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 01, 2018, 09:26:05 PM
OK, let's see whether this works. I logged in through their website and copied the IMG link for a photo I'd uploaded some years ago. If it works, you should get a photo of the space shuttle Discovery atop the Shuttle Carrier Aircraft over Arlington Cemetery.
No joy. Photo broken.  :banghead:

I guess it only worked for so long. Very annoying indeed.  :rolleyes:


Now alternating between different highway shields for my avatar - my previous highway shield avatar for the last few years was US 76.

Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/127322363@N08/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-vJ3qa8R-cc44Cv6ohio1g

J N Winkler

Quote from: hbelkins on March 02, 2018, 09:39:55 PMWhat if we do start some sort of GoFundMe-type situation for image hosting, and the costs for storage space and bandwidth go up, and then all of a sudden people stop contributing? What happens then?

The situation could be addressed by changing the model from donor support to subscription, paring back costs, developing other revenue sources, etc.  Absent embezzlement or serious mismanagement, it is unlikely the site will encounter a crisis that forces it to be taken offline immediately.  What is more likely, if the AARoads forum does not stay up indefinitely as a going concern, is slow death as the population of active members goes down.

Quote from: hbelkins on March 02, 2018, 09:39:55 PMPersonally, I have at least four available sources of image hosting available to me -- an account in the Gallery portion of this forum, my website, Flickr, and a Facebook page -- so I wouldn't be inclined to contribute to a fund to provide hosting here. Facebook offers a pretty simple and free way to get your images online. Start a Facebook page (not a personal account, but a Page), upload your photos there, and link to them when you post here. I occasionally link to a photo on the Millennium Highway Facebook page and it works just fine.

The problem with this approach is that any of those hosting providers can unilaterally decide to prohibit third-party image hosting, just as Photobucket did.  Keeping image hosting with the forum ensures that low-demand images are not subject to a one-size-fits-all policy designed to deal with costs arising from high-demand images.  It also ensures that direct embedding of images on this forum is taken into account in any decisions to modify the image hosting policy.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

hotdogPi

Quote from: J N Winkler on March 03, 2018, 11:26:41 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on March 02, 2018, 09:39:55 PMPersonally, I have at least four available sources of image hosting available to me -- an account in the Gallery portion of this forum, my website, Flickr, and a Facebook page -- so I wouldn't be inclined to contribute to a fund to provide hosting here. Facebook offers a pretty simple and free way to get your images online. Start a Facebook page (not a personal account, but a Page), upload your photos there, and link to them when you post here. I occasionally link to a photo on the Millennium Highway Facebook page and it works just fine.

The problem with this approach is that any of those hosting providers can unilaterally decide to prohibit third-party image hosting, just as Photobucket did.  Keeping image hosting with the forum ensures that low-demand images are not subject to a one-size-fits-all policy designed to deal with costs arising from high-demand images.  It also ensures that direct embedding of images on this forum is taken into account in any decisions to modify the image hosting policy.

1. Forum gallery – will only go down if the forum itself does. It's not meant for thousands of photos by a single user, though.
2. His own website – that's under his own control.
3. Flickr – Possible, but remember that Photobucket kept getting worse and worse with more and more ads until the "pay to use" scam finally happened. Flickr isn't showing any signs of getting worse or more desperate.
4. Facebook – Not that familiar with it, but I could definitely see it happening.
Clinched, minus I-93 (I'm missing a few miles and my file is incorrect)

Traveled, plus US 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

I will be in Burlington VT for the eclipse.

freebrickproductions

Quote from: 1 on March 03, 2018, 11:30:37 AM
Quote from: J N Winkler on March 03, 2018, 11:26:41 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on March 02, 2018, 09:39:55 PMPersonally, I have at least four available sources of image hosting available to me -- an account in the Gallery portion of this forum, my website, Flickr, and a Facebook page -- so I wouldn't be inclined to contribute to a fund to provide hosting here. Facebook offers a pretty simple and free way to get your images online. Start a Facebook page (not a personal account, but a Page), upload your photos there, and link to them when you post here. I occasionally link to a photo on the Millennium Highway Facebook page and it works just fine.

The problem with this approach is that any of those hosting providers can unilaterally decide to prohibit third-party image hosting, just as Photobucket did.  Keeping image hosting with the forum ensures that low-demand images are not subject to a one-size-fits-all policy designed to deal with costs arising from high-demand images.  It also ensures that direct embedding of images on this forum is taken into account in any decisions to modify the image hosting policy.

1. Forum gallery — will only go down if the forum itself does. It's not meant for thousands of photos by a single user, though.
2. His own website — that's under his own control.
3. Flickr — Possible, but remember that Photobucket kept getting worse and worse with more and more ads until the "pay to use" scam finally happened. Flickr isn't showing any signs of getting worse or more desperate.
4. Facebook — Not that familiar with it, but I could definitely see it happening.
Facebook kinda already does as any direct image links will usually go dead after a while (a few months to a year, it seems).
It's all fun & games until someone summons Cthulhu and brings about the end of the world.

I also collect traffic lights, road signs, fans, and railroad crossing equipment.

(They/Them)



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.