Poll
Question:
Who Should Be Awarded The 2026 Winter Olympics This June?
Option 1: Milan(o)
votes: 4
Option 2: Stockholm
votes: 12
With the rest of the upcoming Olympics already being awarded to Tokyo, Beijing, Paris, and Los Angeles, who will ultimately be awarded the 2026 Winter Olympics this June?
Secaucus, NJ
Somewhere in Argentina or Chile, in August.
Cairo, Egypt or Las Vegas, Nevada.
Why, AZ
Milan, because that city actually seems to want it.
Permanently base the Olympics at Athens, Greece. Have all participating nations pay for upkeep of the new Olympia grounds. That will keep money wasting at a minimum so you don't keep building "Olympic Plazas" that end up as abandoned ghost towns afterwards.
DONE.
Quote from: cjk374 on April 06, 2019, 09:40:52 AM"Olympic Plazas" that end up as abandoned ghost towns afterwards.
Go visit Stratford sometime...
Quote from: english si on April 06, 2019, 10:07:29 AM
Quote from: cjk374 on April 06, 2019, 09:40:52 AM"Olympic Plazas" that end up as abandoned ghost towns afterwards.
Go visit Stratford sometime...
And then go visit Atlanta.
Quote from: cjk374 on April 06, 2019, 09:40:52 AM
Permanently base the Olympics at Athens, Greece. Have all participating nations pay for upkeep of the new Olympia grounds. That will keep money wasting at a minimum so you don't keep building "Olympic Plazas" that end up as abandoned ghost towns afterwards.
DONE.
Greece could use the income.
ME!Quote from: cjk374 on April 06, 2019, 09:40:52 AM
Permanently base the Olympics at Athens, Greece.
Is the climate of Athens amenable to the winter games?
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 06, 2019, 10:35:17 AM
Quote from: english si on April 06, 2019, 10:07:29 AM
Quote from: cjk374 on April 06, 2019, 09:40:52 AM"Olympic Plazas" that end up as abandoned ghost towns afterwards.
Go visit Stratford sometime...
And then go visit Atlanta.
Los Angeles is one of a few cities from past Olympics that managed to keep their former Olympic venues active for local team events like the L.A. Coliseum being used for Rams games
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 06, 2019, 10:35:17 AMAnd then go visit Atlanta.
The IOC view Atlanta as an aberration, and massively racked up the weighting they put on legacy when choosing bids (though romanticism won out with Athens, and geography with Beijing and Rio) - one dismal failure shouldn't mean that others can't be allowed to try and make a success of it.
Athens (and any permanent-host Athens facilities would remain as unused outside of every 4 years), Beijing and Rio were somewhat problematic wrt legacy (and Greece and Brazil had far more legacy issues with Euro 04 and World Cup 14 respectively), but again the problem isn't the Olympics persay, but the romantic desire to hold them in places with the finance and culture to build big show-off facilities, but without the finance and culture to use them that much after the party is over. Sydney, Tokyo, Paris, London and LA weren't as fussed about showing off and spending over the odds in their bids - in part because they had facilities already that can be used - because they have the finance and culture to create sporting venues for sports, rather than spectacle.
The notion behind the "just hold it in Athens every time" is the false assumption that Atlanta is the norm, rather than the extreme example of a failure that isn't that common.
Quote from: bing101 on April 06, 2019, 02:40:22 PMLos Angeles is one of a few cities from past Olympics that managed to keep their former Olympic venues active
A few = basically everyone except Atlanta - albeit irregularly in some cities - a once a year athletics trip, or whatever. OK, there's a few sports venues that don't get used again in each city (London and Paris decided temporary stuff - often inside existing venues for concerts/tourism/other sports - was a good idea), but other than Atlanta there hasn't been a games that destroyed the whole lot.
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on April 06, 2019, 02:14:52 PMIs the climate of Athens amenable to the winter games?
There's definitely ski resorts in the Greek Mountains - probably best near Mount Olympus itself.
Sochi has mild winters, but held the Games not that far away - up in the mountains inland. Beijing is cooler, but the mountains are further away. Athens would have the winter warmth of Sochi, and probably the distance to the snow stuff of Beijing.
Quote from: cjk374 on April 06, 2019, 09:40:52 AM
Permanently base the Olympics at Athens, Greece. Have all participating nations pay for upkeep of the new Olympia grounds. That will keep money wasting at a minimum so you don't keep building "Olympic Plazas" that end up as abandoned ghost towns afterwards.
DONE.
I would hate that. The Olympics would lose much of their identity.
Quote from: bing101 on April 06, 2019, 02:40:22 PM
Los Angeles is one of a few cities from past Olympics that managed to keep their former Olympic venues active for local team events like the L.A. Coliseum being used for Rams games
Wasn't the Coliseum built, and used for USC home games, starting about a decade before its first use as an Olympic site?
Los Angeles managed to avoid the Olympics' usual preference for building brand-new facilities, rather than using existing ones. That was why Los Angeles was such a successful Olympics venue, and well-positioned to host additional summer Olympics.
Not sure how it might be suitable for winter games, though, even with mountains and ski areas not that far from the city.
Quote from: oscar on April 06, 2019, 04:05:57 PM
Quote from: bing101 on April 06, 2019, 02:40:22 PM
Los Angeles is one of a few cities from past Olympics that managed to keep their former Olympic venues active for local team events like the L.A. Coliseum being used for Rams games
Wasn't the Coliseum built, and used for USC home games, starting about a decade before its first use as an Olympic site?
Los Angeles managed to avoid the Olympics' usual preference for building brand-new facilities, rather than using existing ones. That was why Los Angeles was such a successful Olympics venue, and well-positioned to host additional summer Olympics.
Not sure how it might be suitable for winter games, though, even with mountains and ski areas not that far from the city.
Your right too L.A. Coliseum has been used for USC home games too during the times the Rams was in Saint Louis though.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 06, 2019, 04:01:00 PM
Quote from: cjk374 on April 06, 2019, 09:40:52 AM
Permanently base the Olympics at Athens, Greece. Have all participating nations pay for upkeep of the new Olympia grounds. That will keep money wasting at a minimum so you don't keep building "Olympic Plazas" that end up as abandoned ghost towns afterwards.
DONE.
I would hate that. The Olympics would lose much of their identity.
Right now...the way I see it...the identity of the Olympics is that of wasted money by the millions on facilities that are never put to use after the games end. Many times, it is money that is never recouped. Is this the identity the IOC really wants attached to its product?
It's reaching a point where cities are increasingly shying away from bidding because of cost, the corrupt nature of the process, and the facilities issues.
Salt Lake 2002 is one example of an Olympics that where pretty much all the facilities that were built remain well-used and in good condition. All the venues from the 2002 Olympics could easily be used again, which is why the US Olympic Committee has selected Salt Lake to bid for the 2030 games.
Actually, the only venue that could run into issues is Soldier Hollow for cross-country, and those issues would derive entirely from the potential effects of climate change on a relatively low-elevation site (below 6000 feet). If they really needed to, I'm sure they could do those events up in the Ogden Valley, which is both colder and snowier than Heber.
On the other hand, the city has shown itself to be irresponsible with its Olympic legacy (see the Hoberman Arch debacle (http://dailyutahchronicle.com/2018/03/02/barber-treatment-hoberman-arch-displays-irresponsible-handling-olympic-legacy/)), but that seems to be more a function of the incompetence of recent city governments and mayors.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on April 06, 2019, 05:18:39 PM
It's reaching a point where cities are increasingly shying away from bidding because of cost, the corrupt nature of the process, and the facilities issues.
This.
The WINTER Olympics are generally held in wealthier nations with the money and desire to keep facilities running, but several of the recent summer Olympics have abandoned facilities. Atlanta isn't an aberration, but what seems to be the norm for the past 25 years.
Quote from: cjk374 on April 06, 2019, 05:11:25 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 06, 2019, 04:01:00 PM
Quote from: cjk374 on April 06, 2019, 09:40:52 AM
Permanently base the Olympics at Athens, Greece. Have all participating nations pay for upkeep of the new Olympia grounds. That will keep money wasting at a minimum so you don't keep building "Olympic Plazas" that end up as abandoned ghost towns afterwards.
DONE.
I would hate that. The Olympics would lose much of their identity.
Right now...the way I see it...the identity of the Olympics is that of wasted money by the millions on facilities that are never put to use after the games end. Many times, it is money that is never recouped. Is this the identity the IOC really wants attached to its product?
You have a point but the Olympics symbolizes world unity. In can be in all countries, rich or poor, communist or capitalist.
Quote from: english si on April 06, 2019, 10:07:29 AM
Quote from: cjk374 on April 06, 2019, 09:40:52 AM"Olympic Plazas" that end up as abandoned ghost towns afterwards.
Go visit Stratford sometime...
When has Stratford ever hosted the Olympics? :hmmm:
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on April 06, 2019, 05:18:39 PM
It's reaching a point where cities are increasingly shying away from bidding because of cost, the corrupt nature of the process, and the facilities issues.
And security and police costs.
Quote from: Verlanka on April 07, 2019, 08:23:53 AM
Quote from: english si on April 06, 2019, 10:07:29 AM
Quote from: cjk374 on April 06, 2019, 09:40:52 AM"Olympic Plazas" that end up as abandoned ghost towns afterwards.
Go visit Stratford sometime...
When has Stratford ever hosted the Olympics? :hmmm:
Stratford is part of Greater London.
Quote from: Verlanka on April 07, 2019, 08:23:53 AMWhen has Stratford ever hosted the Olympics? :hmmm:
2012. "Stratford" is the shorthand for the Queen Elizabeth Olympic Park in the British (not just London) media. I don't think I've ever seen it be called "the London Olympic Park" - closest is "the Olympic Park in London", which is rare. Stratford is the normal place name used to describe the cluster of Olympic venues created for the 2012 Olympics.
If, in 2012, NYC had won then saying "go visit New York sometime" wouldn't make as much sense as "go visit Hudson Yards sometime" - ie go to where the stadium would have been (OK, NYC's bid was more spread out with no real clustering - London had 5 venues and the Olympic Village all at Stratford). In the same way "go visit London" wouldn't have made sense.
Quote from: cjk374 on April 06, 2019, 05:11:25 PMRight now...the way I see it...the identity of the Olympics is that of wasted money by the millions on facilities that are never put to use after the games end.
Here we go with the nonsense that every Olympic host city is Atlanta - most facilities are put to use after the 5-ring circus packs up. It's something that the IOC specifically look for now, post-Atlanta.
A permanent Athenian complex would see as much use outside the games as 2004's does now - which as far as you reckon is not at all! The problem you allege is the case isn't fixed by your solution - just that a stadium gets polished every 4 years, sees a month of activity then rots for about 40 months before its time to give it a fresh lick of paint.
Certainly Athens' 15-year-old facilities could be used more, but it's not simply sitting empty - and a key factor in its underuse is the economic problems the country has suffered - unforeseen at the time (well, no - most smart economists could have told you that Greece in the Euro was an inevitable disaster, due to problems with both Greece and the Euro, but it wasn't cool to say it) and nothing to do with the Olympics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Forum_(Inglewood,_California) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Forum_(Inglewood,_California))
The Forum in Inglewood was used for the 1984 Olympics and was the L.A. Lakers Home Court prior to moving to Staples Center two decades ago and Has been a Concert venue ever since.
For Winter Games https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1960_Winter_Olympics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1960_Winter_Olympics) The Squaw Valley Resort is still used nearly 6 decades after the games were done.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squaw_Valley,_Placer_County,_California (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squaw_Valley,_Placer_County,_California)
I'm curious why you think Atlanta immediately abandoned all their Olympic facilities.
I've also read that Atlanta turned an overall profit, so who even cares if the facilities were permanent?
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 07, 2019, 12:16:51 PMI'm curious why you think Atlanta immediately abandoned all their Olympic facilities.
I don't.
The nay-sayers' narrative is this idea that the facilities turn into pumpkins as soon as that flame is put out:
Quote from: cjk374 on April 06, 2019, 05:11:25 PMfacilities that are never put to use after the games end.
And Atlanta is Exhibit A for this nonsense:
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 06, 2019, 10:35:17 AM
Quote from: english si on April 06, 2019, 10:07:29 AM
Quote from: cjk374 on April 06, 2019, 09:40:52 AM"Olympic Plazas" that end up as abandoned ghost towns afterwards.
Go visit Stratford sometime...
And then go visit Atlanta.
Atlanta is, I agree with the naysayers, the paramount example of a bad legacy. The loss of the athletics stadium (even though there was a planned sports reuse for most of the physical entity right from the beginning of planning, with the conversion designed in mind) left egg on the IOC's face, and they reacted to stop that embarrassment happening again. That it's not really a bad legacy shows how wrong the naysayers are!
Quote from: Alps on April 07, 2019, 02:45:43 PM
I've also read that Atlanta turned an overall profit, so who even cares if the facilities were permanent?
Also doesn't some of the Atlanta area stadiums get used for local events too like NFL, NBA and MLB games too along with Bulldogs games.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venues_of_the_1996_Summer_Olympics
^^^^
That was part of my point. Atlanta used the Olympics in part to build replacements for old venues that were past their time. For example, the Olympic stadium was designed from the very beginning with the intent that it would be converted to a new baseball stadium after the Olympics were over, and once that was done the old "concrete donut" style stadium (Atlanta—Fulton County Stadium) where the baseball and, formerly, football teams had long played was demolished. If you watched the 1996 Olympics you might recall how the main stadium was not a perfect oval–one end was a different shape. That's because that end was where home plate was after it was converted to Turner Field. (Now that it's no longer used for baseball it's been renovated again into a college football facility.)
To me, doing it that way makes a lot of sense. The city that by all accounts really got it wrong was Montreal in 1976, building a lot of expensive new facilities that didn't have many other uses. But apparently some of the Europeans got all butthurt about the Olympic stadium being converted for baseball instead of being preserved as a useless venue nobody would use, even though the Atlanta OCOG had made it clear from the very beginning that's what was planned.
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 07, 2019, 03:46:12 PM
^^^^
That was part of my point. Atlanta used the Olympics in part to build replacements for old venues that were past their time. For example, the Olympic stadium was designed from the very beginning with the intent that it would be converted to a new baseball stadium after the Olympics were over, and once that was done the old "concrete donut" style stadium (Atlanta—Fulton County Stadium) where the baseball and, formerly, football teams had long played was demolished. If you watched the 1996 Olympics you might recall how the main stadium was not a perfect oval–one end was a different shape. That's because that end was where home plate was after it was converted to Turner Field. (Now that it's no longer used for baseball it's been renovated again into a college football facility.)
To me, doing it that way makes a lot of sense. The city that by all accounts really got it wrong was Montreal in 1976, building a lot of expensive new facilities that didn't have many other uses. But apparently some of the Europeans got all butthurt about the Olympic stadium being converted for baseball instead of being preserved as a useless venue nobody would use, even though the Atlanta OCOG had made it clear from the very beginning that's what was planned.
Atlanta, Los Angeles, Squaw Valley and Salt Lake City has to be one of the few cases where the former Olympic stadiums being converted to either a winter ski resort or the home stadium for local teams and a concert venue in some cases.
Except, as is correctly noted earlier in the thread, the LA Memorial Coliseum was constructed between 1921 and 1923 and became the home of USC football at that time. It was later expanded to allow it to be used for the 1932 Summer Olympics. But it's not really a situation where a "former Olympic stadium" was "converted" for a local sports team–rather, a local team's existing stadium was modified for the Olympics and has continued to be used for its original purpose (as well as becoming the home for many other teams over the years, even a baseball team) through the present day.
I believe I read that the 2028 plans involve using the new NFL stadium (now under construction) as the primary venue, though it won't host track and field and will instead be used for the ceremonies and soccer.
It doesn't help that the IOC are usually right behind FIFA in the sports corruption index. Salt Lake City, Atlanta, and Beijing all suffered from some degree of vote bribery.
Vancouver has done well for itself as a recent Olympic host. BC Place is thriving for soccer and CFL, the Whistler venues are thronged with people, the Olympic Village is one of the most livable neighborhoods in North America, and the Canada Line is pretty successful (but was built under capacity).
Had Detroit hosted the 1968 Olympics instead of Mexico, I wondered what could had happened to their olympics facilities after?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dc_vbDbC0to
If Salt Lake City couldn't host the Winter Olympics, maybe they could try to host the Pan-American games?