Wisconsin notes

[peterj920]

When I was in Eau Claire a few months ago, I noticed that the new signals installed didn't have stop bars.  They also have gone to doghouse lights for lanes where traffic can turn left or go straight.  Farwell/Galloway and Lake/1st Ave had dog house lights.  New lights were also installed on Brackett Ave without stop bars.  They also use clearview exclusively on all new signs.  The BGS were replaced on Bus 53 at the US 12/Clairemont Ave exit with clearview font.  The signs southbound were newer than the northbound BGS at the same interchange, yet those signs remain.  The northbound signs are button copy, and there is a sign that says North 53.  Interesting that the newer south signs were replaced with identical signage aside from the clearview font, but the northbound signs with a North 53 reference that should be corrected remains.  I have a screenshot from google streetview to show the assembly.  The photo was from 2011, but the assembly was exactly the same  when I visited in September. 

https://www.google.com/maps/@44.7919839,-91.4586245,3a,75y,346.27h,79.39t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1swpDYF52NRxpS5AZXGRbeHA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

The Water Street Bridge is currently being replaced and new signals are going to be installed at Water and 1st Ave.  Will be interesting to see if they still decide to abandon the stop bar signal when the intersection reopens next year. 

[SEWIGuy]

Drove US-12/18 into Madison at rush hour today, and the new RIRO WI-73 intersection is complete.  The typical back ups on WI-73, and the "frantic" left hand turns onto US-12/18 are gone.  Replaced with nice merging lanes and WI-73 through traffic driving underneath.  Very simple solution to a bad problem.  Well done by WIDOT.

[Revive 755]

Otherwise, Mike is correct. WisDOT, along with many other agencies prohibit protected permissive left turn phasing for dual or triple left turn lanes, left turns on 45 mph+ facilities, in addition to turns that must cross more than 2 opposing thru lanes.

The last one must be a district by district thing in Wisconsin; the very new signals for the new Meijers on WI 31 in Kenosha has a FYA for lefts off of WI 31 that cross three opposing through lanes.  IIRC there are a few other signals on WI 31 that were recently upgraded to use FYA's and allow permissive turns across three opposing through lanes.

[Big John]

^^ In front of Lambeau Field, left-turning traffic on Lombardi Ave was protected-only at Ridge Rd as it crossed 3 thru lanes.  A couple years ago it was changed to FYA in both directions.

[peterj920]

Drove through Wrightstown and checked out the new bridge.  I have some pictures below.


East Apporach






West Approach

[mgk920]

The old bridge is now under demolition, I assume.

I didn't even know that it was complete and open.  I'll have to check it out.



Mike

[peterj920]

The old bridge is now under demolition, I assume.

I didn't even know that it was complete and open.  I'll have to check it out.



Mike

The old bridge was just closed and demolition is starting.  The old bridge was open to allow access to County ZZ and the businesses on the east side of Wrightstown while Old 96 between County ZZ and the new bridge was reconstructed, even though the new bridge was open to traffic.  Old 96 is now being designate as County MW between Wis 96 and County ZZ.  (no idea how Brown County came up with that.  Seems like they have been coming up with strange county road designations lately).  Now that the road is reconstructed, that part of town can now be accessed via County MW and the new bridge, so the old bridge can come down. 

[DaBigE]

Otherwise, Mike is correct. WisDOT, along with many other agencies prohibit protected permissive left turn phasing for dual or triple left turn lanes, left turns on 45 mph+ facilities, in addition to turns that must cross more than 2 opposing thru lanes.

The last one must be a district by district thing in Wisconsin; the very new signals for the new Meijers on WI 31 in Kenosha has a FYA for lefts off of WI 31 that cross three opposing through lanes.  IIRC there are a few other signals on WI 31 that were recently upgraded to use FYA's and allow permissive turns across three opposing through lanes.

I should have worded my post better ...whether or not the left turn crosses multiple lanes is part of the speed criteria. There are several intersections around Madison with protected/permissive left turn phasing and still cross multiple thru lanes. Long story short, speed and the number of left turning lanes are typically the main criteria that would determine protected/permissive vs. protected only left turns. If speeds are under 45, either phasing is usually fair game. If there are multiple left turn lanes, protected-only is the way the state prefers it, regardless of speed. That was my understanding from one of my mentors and the WisDOT Traffic Signal Design Manual. Regions seem to be developing their own regional standards/experiments and the trial of adaptive signalization in the SE Region and the Madison area have changed the ballgame some. The Design Manual unfortunately hasn't kept up with a lot of the innovations as well as it should.

[GeekJedi]

On a different note - I had no idea that CTH-T/TT was the original routing of STH-30 between CTH-N and the current STH-30. I was driving it today and noticed the large amount of unused right-of-way with the typical Wis-DOT no trespassing signs, which I thought was and odd thing for a lightly used secondary road. After looking at it on a map, it suddenly made sense!

[SEWIGuy]

On a different note - I had no idea that CTH-T/TT was the original routing of STH-30 between CTH-N and the current STH-30. I was driving it today and noticed the large amount of unused right-of-way with the typical Wis-DOT no trespassing signs, which I thought was and odd thing for a lightly used secondary road. After looking at it on a map, it suddenly made sense!

While a very old routing, that's not the original.  From Bessert's site:

"It was by 1924 that STH-30 was removed from the Illinois-Readstown routing and applied to a new, more direct route from Madison to Milwaukee. From the Capitol, STH-30 began by running northeasterly out of downtown, then southeasterly around Lake Monona via Atwood Ave and then easterly via Cottage Grove Rd/CTH-BB in Dane Co and CTH-B through Lake Mills, Azatlan, Johnson Creek and Concord. In Waukesha Co, STH-30 followed present day Delafield Rd and CTH-DR through Delafield, continuing roughly along the present-day I-94 corridor passing Waukesha to the north before joining with STH-19 (later US-16) for the final 14 miles into downtown Milwaukee.

Just prior to World War II, STH-30 was realigned onto the route of present-day I-94 from Lake Mills easterly to the Concord area. The improvements continued westerly from Lake Mills to CTH-N north of Cottage Grove, again running via today's I-94 route (although it used the current CTH-TT alignment for the last half-mile to CTH-N). A year later, the STH-30 improvements carried the new highway westerly from CTH-N at Cottage Grive via present-day CTH-TT, CTH-T and Commercial Ave into Madison to US-151/Washington Ave, where it turned southwesterly with US-151 to the Capitol."

[Mrt90]

Otherwise, Mike is correct. WisDOT, along with many other agencies prohibit protected permissive left turn phasing for dual or triple left turn lanes, left turns on 45 mph+ facilities, in addition to turns that must cross more than 2 opposing thru lanes.

The last one must be a district by district thing in Wisconsin; the very new signals for the new Meijers on WI 31 in Kenosha has a FYA for lefts off of WI 31 that cross three opposing through lanes.  IIRC there are a few other signals on WI 31 that were recently upgraded to use FYA's and allow permissive turns across three opposing through lanes.

Where are the other FYA on WI31 besides the new ones at Meijer/78th Street?  There are a couple of unprotected lefts (at WI165 and at 95th Street in Pleasant Prairie) but they don't have FYA, and I haven't seen FYA at 85th Street, WI50, 67th Street, 60th Street, or 52nd Street. 

[pianocello]

Drove through Wrightstown and checked out the new bridge.  I have some pictures below.

(snipped pics)

Are there still signs for WI-96 along the old bridge and Main St? They were in October when I was there, but I think the old bridge was still open at the time.

[JREwing78]

DOT marks milestone as Hoan Bridge project complete, Lakefront Gateway project begins
http://fox6now.com/2015/12/15/wisconsin-department-of-transportation-to-celebrate-milestone-announce-start-of-new-project/

[SEWIGuy]

DOT marks milestone as Hoan Bridge project complete, Lakefront Gateway project begins
http://fox6now.com/2015/12/15/wisconsin-department-of-transportation-to-celebrate-milestone-announce-start-of-new-project/

With the new arena, the new NML tower, Johnson Controls talking about moving downtown, and condos all over the place, downtown Milwaukee really is looking a lot better than it was even a decade ago.  The city has done well in that regard.

[The Ghostbuster]

The exit ramps are still on the left-hand side, right? I would have moved them to the right-hand side.

[tchafe1978]

Bill allowing counties to raise half-cent sales tax for transportation has bipartisan support

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/bill-allowing-counties-to-raise-half-cent-sales-tax-for/article_f0e441f6-d88b-5a5d-91df-3c86d81aa777.html

I think that rather than passing the buck on down to the counties, the legislature should do its job and properly fund the transportation needs of the state, and not by more borrowing. Raise the gas tax now, while cars are getting more fuel efficient and gas prices are low.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

Bill allowing counties to raise half-cent sales tax for transportation has bipartisan support

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/bill-allowing-counties-to-raise-half-cent-sales-tax-for/article_f0e441f6-d88b-5a5d-91df-3c86d81aa777.html

I think that rather than passing the buck on down to the counties, the legislature should do its job and properly fund the transportation needs of the state, and not by more borrowing. Raise the gas tax now, while cars are getting more fuel efficient and gas prices are low.

It also looks too cumbersome to make it work, between the county voters (some people would rather commit suicide than vote to raise taxes) and the fact that they have to reapprove it every four years.

[WarrenWallace]

If something like this passes, I can see a scenario where a county, say Dane County, votes to raise the money for local road work improvements.  Then the state government in the future reduces transportation money to Dane County (since they have some funding on their own) instead to give more money to counties that won't vote for any increases.

[triplemultiplex]

Sounds like the state legislature is shunting responsibility for funding roads onto someone else.  I suppose, they can't cancel/delay any more major projects without upsetting their donors friends at the Wisconsin Transportation Builders Association.

WisDOT is trying to keep building roads like the state's gas tax is still indexed to inflation, but it hasn't for a decade so they are cutting local roads to try and keep the same pace of construction.  A robust construction industry developed in the state while the gas tax was indexed for inflation for a generation.  They became influential enough to keep the high-dollar projects coming while WisDOT cuts funding to local roads in post-indexed Wisconsin.  After all, local road projects mostly go to smaller companies who don't have the size to bid on major projects like Lunda and Hoffman.

The Gerrymandering of state legislative districts has painted Wisconsin into an anti-tax corner until at least 2023.
So now the state is in a place where you can't increase funding for transportation and a 25 year surge of highway expansion is not backed by adequate funding for continued maintenance.  This is going to result in Wisconsin's roads and highways getting shittier and shittier for the foreseeable future, save for a handful of brand new expansions.  It means there will be more stealing of money from great state institutions like the UW system or our fantastic network of state parks and public lands to chase the deficit of transportation maintenance.

[Milwaukee, WY]

Sounds like the state legislature is shunting responsibility for funding roads onto someone else.  I suppose, they can't cancel/delay any more major projects without upsetting their donors friends at the Wisconsin Transportation Builders Association.

WisDOT is trying to keep building roads like the state's gas tax is still indexed to inflation, but it hasn't for a decade so they are cutting local roads to try and keep the same pace of construction.  A robust construction industry developed in the state while the gas tax was indexed for inflation for a generation.  They became influential enough to keep the high-dollar projects coming while WisDOT cuts funding to local roads in post-indexed Wisconsin.  After all, local road projects mostly go to smaller companies who don't have the size to bid on major projects like Lunda and Hoffman.

The Gerrymandering of state legislative districts has painted Wisconsin into an anti-tax corner until at least 2023.
So now the state is in a place where you can't increase funding for transportation and a 25 year surge of highway expansion is not backed by adequate funding for continued maintenance.  This is going to result in Wisconsin's roads and highways getting shittier and shittier for the foreseeable future, save for a handful of brand new expansions.  It means there will be more stealing of money from great state institutions like the UW system or our fantastic network of state parks and public lands to chase the deficit of transportation maintenance.

Unfortunately, I'm afraid your analysis is spot-on. Couldn't have said it better myself. 

[Roadguy]

Bill allowing counties to raise half-cent sales tax for transportation has bipartisan support

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/bill-allowing-counties-to-raise-half-cent-sales-tax-for/article_f0e441f6-d88b-5a5d-91df-3c86d81aa777.html

There is no question that counties are so far behind funding that they are even in worse shape than WisDOT.  Many don't even have enough money to fund mill and overlay programs to keep up with their system.  That does not include the fact they still need money to reconstruct roadways as well.

For this to pass it is going to require county board support and county engineers to delve into more politics than they are use to.  The key is to present to the public:
1.) With that money, what specific projects would be completed with that money.  The key may be to include some projects that may not necessarily are on the top of the list but would have high public support for their completion.  Taxpayers when they see the results will be more willing to vote for an increase if they have a specific list of projects they know will be completed.
2.) Once passed make drivers aware that the projects are funded by the sales tax, similar to ARRA where signs went up for all of those projects, do the same for these projects.
3.) When the 4 year vote comes up, present to the public the list of projects completed and note without that money, those projects would not have been completed.
4.) Continuously on an annual basis update the list of projects completed with that money and the list of projects to be completed the next upcoming year with that money.

It's going to require more politics than most are comfortable with but if a county can get over the initial vote of getting it passed the first time, most likely it will be easier to get it passed in subsequent years.

In terms of the taxes, the focus should be on the work that would be completed, not the taxes.  Trying to steer the conversation away from just the taxes and focus it on the work that would be done is key to the success of the referendum.

[SEWIGuy]

The issue is that cities and counties are bound by levy limits that limit what can be generated through property taxes.  In many cases the limits fall short of inflation and short of increases in personnel benefits and the like.  Therefore road projects, which are an ongoing issue, generally get pushed further and further back.

I have lived in this state for over 40 years, and the general quality of the roads has never been worse.  The new construction is great.  State maintained roads are usually OK.  But the county and municipal streets?  Generally they are awful.  My municipality just instituted a $20 wheel tax (the maximum allowed by state law) to specifically take care of road projects that have fallen behind.

[nwi_navigator_1181]

My family is heading to the Dells for a late spring vacation this May (with a brief stop in Madison). Are there any outstanding projects I need to be on the lookout for along the I-39/90/94 corridors?

Thanks in advance for your responses.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

My family is heading to the Dells for a late spring vacation this May (with a brief stop in Madison). Are there any outstanding projects I need to be on the lookout for along the I-39/90/94 corridors?

Thanks in advance for your responses.

Not sure about large-scale projects, but they are rebuilding some of the interchanges on I-39/90 south of Madison in preparation for a full-scale rebuild and widen of that stretch later this decade.

[SSOWorld]

My family is heading to the Dells for a late spring vacation this May (with a brief stop in Madison). Are there any outstanding projects I need to be on the lookout for along the I-39/90/94 corridors?

Thanks in advance for your responses.

Not sure about large-scale projects, but they are rebuilding some of the interchanges on I-39/90 south of Madison in preparation for a full-scale rebuild and widen of that stretch later this decade.

The full-scale rebuild won't happen this year as planned due to political interference.  There are no other known (to me) projects along that corridor in Wisconsin. If you're using I-90 from Chicago there is a rebuild happening on it.