Wisconsin notes

[GeekJedi]

Right. WI-57 didn't all of a sudden get "more important". The signage was re-done in place to current standards. The WI-57 shield was enlarged because it was signed with the I-43 shield, and it was turned into a "uni-sign". Had they elected to put the Circle Tour and WI-32 signs on there, they would have been enlarged as well. The contractor just did them as two assemblies, similar to what was originally there.

[peterj920]

http://www.511wi.gov/Web/traffic/message_signs.aspx

With the VMS boards, I-894 is referenced also.  Notice how I-41 is referenced on the VMS on the north-south portion of I-894.

[GeekJedi]

You said: "You're more likely to see I-894 referenced on VMS boards and see signs that say TO 894 than I-41 and I-43 since I-894 is known as the bypass."

Which is it? The direction, or what's more well known?

My point here is that you're confusing one very clear standard with one that you believe should be. The sign I posted earlier "To 39" is there NOT because it's a north-south route, but because it's the lowest number of the two co-signed interstates. Most people still call it I-90 (another "standard" you reference above with 894). You then go on to talk about "importance" of routes based on the size of a shield on a replacement assembly.

In effect, you really haven't made any point here.

[GeekJedi]

By the way - the reason that 894 is listed on that page is because it's the ramp to I-41/894/45 and not I-41/US 45.

It makes the sign easier to understand because there's no need for a cardinal direction. There's only one ramp to 894 from WB I-94. There are two ramps for I-41.

Again, nothing to do with how it's "known".

[peterj920]

By the way - the reason that 894 is listed on that page is because it's the ramp to I-41/894/45 and not I-41/US 45.

It makes the sign easier to understand because there's no need for a cardinal direction. There's only one ramp to 894 from WB I-94. There are two ramps for I-41.

Again, nothing to do with how it's "known".

What about the time to Zoo VMS that says VIA I-94 and VIA 894?  I-41 is absent. 

[GeekJedi]

The "What's more likely game" tells us that, again, its for clarity. That sign is located where 41/94 are co-signed. It's less confusing to use 894 in that case.

So, What about the one *on* 894 that says "Lane Closure, I-41 3 Miles ahead"?  You can cherry pick one sign at a time, but it (again) doesn't mean a trend towards anything. Look at all the signs - I-41 is listed way more than 894. So there goes your "what everybody calls it" theory.

You keep seeing what you want to see, but haven't provided any real strong examples to prove it. Just plenty of "anecdotal" type-stuff that can be attributed to other things (sign replacement, sign location, etc).

[peterj920]

The "What's more likely game" tells us that, again, its for clarity. That sign is located where 41/94 are co-signed. It's less confusing to use 894 in that case.

So, What about the one *on* 894 that says "Lane Closure, I-41 3 Miles ahead"?  You can cherry pick one sign at a time, but it (again) doesn't mean a trend towards anything. Look at all the signs - I-41 is listed way more than 894. So there goes your "what everybody calls it" theory.

You keep seeing what you want to see, but haven't provided any real strong examples to prove it. Just plenty of "anecdotal" type-stuff that can be attributed to other things (sign replacement, sign location, etc).

My theory is based on direction.  Notice how the I-41 signs are posted on the VMS on the parts of I-894 when it's north south.  I-894 is signed as an east west freeway.  The VMS says I-41 northbound, which would be I-894 westbound.  Since the actual direction is north, it's better to have I-41 since it has a northbound direction.  With the additions of I-39, and I-41, all of the east/west signed interstates that actually travel north/south now have a north/south interstate and WISDOT seems to be signing based on actual direction of the freeway. 

[GeekJedi]

I get what you're theory is, but I believe it's "over thought". It is more confusing to change up route numbers than it is to have travel direction not the same as the cardinal direction of the route.

It is longstanding tradition to use the lowest route number as the "primary" or first number on signing. While you're examples happen to be in areas where that may be the case, the also happen to be the *only* areas. So it's easy to support your theory, even though it's more likely that WisDOT is just following their typical convention.

They put I-41 on the VMS's because that's the lowest number. The two examples you give *may* support your theory, but there are also very valid alternative reasons there.

We take this all back to the sign that started this. The "To I-39" sign. We say it's signed that way because it's the lowest number (following WisDOT's convention) while you say it's because it leads to a "N-S road". Here's the rub: At that sign, the motorist has no idea what direction the road is. It's not an alternate route marker - it's a trailblazer. Second, using your "use what everyone calls it" theory, that route is often still referred to as I-90. So there's two strikes for your theory out of the gate. Meanwhile, the sign *does* follow the "lowest number" convention.

What I'm saying is that I'm connecting the existing dots. You're putting new dots out there so you can connect them the way you think they should be connected.

[GeekJedi]

This has got to be one of the lamest discussions on this board in quite a while.  Based all on the placement of a TO sign at the end of a rather obscure state highway?

Well thank God you came by then! I mean, you could have just skipped past it, but fortunately you graced us with a reply!

[colinstu]

This has got to be one of the lamest discussions on this board in quite a while.  Based all on the placement of a TO sign at the end of a rather obscure state highway?

Well thank God you came by then! I mean, you could have just skipped past it, but fortunately you graced us with a reply!

I'm with SEWIguy on this one. Don't know why he deleted his post.

A lot of speculation about something that doesn't have an official rule written about it. I don't think anyone is truly right or wrong on the subject. If unsubscribe from the thread to avoid the discussion, but I'm still interested in the main reason for this thread.

In other news, I didn't realize that WI in 2013-14 has already started and completed its replacements of Sesquicentennial and other Red lettered plates. I'll need to keep an eye out for any stragglers. Also, it feels like a lot of the early A-F black letter plates are gone too, I'm not sure if there's an official word on that or not. I see a number of cars that would be registered at that time and it seems like a lot of them have plates that start with X now.

[GeekJedi]

It went long, but peterj920 brought up good points. The problem with putting all of the states "notes" in one thread is that you're bound to occasionally get a discussion that doesn't interest you. It will eventually end, and everyone moves on. If you don't like it, don't read it!

As to the license plates, Im wondering if the reason for not seeing a lot of A-F plates are simply due to attrition due to age. I don't think there was a plan to replace them - or was there? I know the Sesquicentennial plates were "retired", but I hadn't heard of any others.

[mgk920]

It went long, but peterj920 brought up good points. The problem with putting all of the states "notes" in one thread is that you're bound to occasionally get a discussion that doesn't interest you. It will eventually end, and everyone moves on. If you don't like it, don't read it!

As to the license plates, Im wondering if the reason for not seeing a lot of A-F plates are simply due to attrition due to age. I don't think there was a plan to replace them - or was there? I know the Sesquicentennial plates were "retired", but I hadn't heard of any others.

I'm thinking 'attrition', too.  For example, about a year ago I was in a minor fender-bender crash (other driver's fault) that destroyed my car's front plate.  I had to have WisDOT stamp a new one (personalized number) and noticed on the order form that for regular-issue plates, WisDOT will simply assign a new plate number to the car instead of re-stamping the old plate.

BTW, a few days ago I noticed a regular-issue plate with xxx-ZDE here in the Appleton area, so we'll very soon be seeing what WisDOT's plan is for when the current NNN-LLL number pool exhausts.

Mike

[SEWIGuy]

It went long, but peterj920 brought up good points. The problem with putting all of the states "notes" in one thread is that you're bound to occasionally get a discussion that doesn't interest you. It will eventually end, and everyone moves on. If you don't like it, don't read it!

As to the license plates, Im wondering if the reason for not seeing a lot of A-F plates are simply due to attrition due to age. I don't think there was a plan to replace them - or was there? I know the Sesquicentennial plates were "retired", but I hadn't heard of any others.

I'm thinking 'attrition', too.  For example, about a year ago I was in a minor fender-bender crash (other driver's fault) that destroyed my car's front plate.  I had to have WisDOT stamp a new one (personalized number) and noticed on the order form that for regular-issue plates, WisDOT will simply assign a new plate number to the car instead of re-stamping the old plate.

BTW, a few days ago I noticed a regular-issue plate with xxx-ZDE here in the Appleton area, so we'll very soon be seeing what WisDOT's plan is for when the current NNN-LLL number pool exhausts.

Mike

Couldn't they simply reuse the LLL-NNN plates and "skip over" the few of those that are still active?

[colinstu]

I think they could, as long as their systems have a way of invalidating / nulling out any out-standing issues with previously registered numbers.
Sure, all those LLL-NNN plates should be gone, but...Parking tickets, other violations, etc related to that number... are they tied with the Plate Number itself? Or with the RRN? VIN? That would have to be checked out first I'm sure. Wouldn't want to get the number registered to a new car, and then that person sent a bunch of mail about other people's issues.

If they wanted to play it safe, they probably wouldn't re-use numbers. I think it would be the best move though.

They could also ditch the hyphen and go with a 7 digit plate. NNNLLLL?

[DaBigE]

They could also ditch the hyphen and go with a 7 digit plate. NNNLLLL?

They already allow 7-digit personalized plates, other than losing the relatively easy parsing ability of the hyphened plates, I say why not?

[SEWIGuy]

I think they could, as long as their systems have a way of invalidating / nulling out any out-standing issues with previously registered numbers.
Sure, all those LLL-NNN plates should be gone, but...Parking tickets, other violations, etc related to that number... are they tied with the Plate Number itself? Or with the RRN? VIN? That would have to be checked out first I'm sure. Wouldn't want to get the number registered to a new car, and then that person sent a bunch of mail about other people's issues.

If they wanted to play it safe, they probably wouldn't re-use numbers. I think it would be the best move though.

They could also ditch the hyphen and go with a 7 digit plate. NNNLLLL?

That makes much more sense, and would actually allow for something like more than 400 million combinations.  (Instead of the 17 million or so with NNN-LLL format.)

[The Ghostbuster]

I have a question about the photo. Why did they omit Interstate 90? The roadway has always had that number. It's only been duplexed with Interstate 39 since 1998.

[20160805]

I think they could, as long as their systems have a way of invalidating / nulling out any out-standing issues with previously registered numbers.
Sure, all those LLL-NNN plates should be gone, but...Parking tickets, other violations, etc related to that number... are they tied with the Plate Number itself? Or with the RRN? VIN? That would have to be checked out first I'm sure. Wouldn't want to get the number registered to a new car, and then that person sent a bunch of mail about other people's issues.

If they wanted to play it safe, they probably wouldn't re-use numbers. I think it would be the best move though.

They could also ditch the hyphen and go with a 7 digit plate. NNNLLLL?

I like that - let's just hope that they take out the silly or offensive ones, such as 895POOP or 637BUTT. 

[colinstu]

I think they could, as long as their systems have a way of invalidating / nulling out any out-standing issues with previously registered numbers.
Sure, all those LLL-NNN plates should be gone, but...Parking tickets, other violations, etc related to that number... are they tied with the Plate Number itself? Or with the RRN? VIN? That would have to be checked out first I'm sure. Wouldn't want to get the number registered to a new car, and then that person sent a bunch of mail about other people's issues.

If they wanted to play it safe, they probably wouldn't re-use numbers. I think it would be the best move though.

They could also ditch the hyphen and go with a 7 digit plate. NNNLLLL?

I like that - let's just hope that they take out the silly or offensive ones, such as 895POOP or 637BUTT. 

They could also do LLLNNNN or NNNNLLL... they wouldn't have to worry about a whole bunch of new words to omit... just more numbers.

[mgk920]

I think they could, as long as their systems have a way of invalidating / nulling out any out-standing issues with previously registered numbers.
Sure, all those LLL-NNN plates should be gone, but...Parking tickets, other violations, etc related to that number... are they tied with the Plate Number itself? Or with the RRN? VIN? That would have to be checked out first I'm sure. Wouldn't want to get the number registered to a new car, and then that person sent a bunch of mail about other people's issues.

If they wanted to play it safe, they probably wouldn't re-use numbers. I think it would be the best move though.

They could also ditch the hyphen and go with a 7 digit plate. NNNLLLL?

That makes much more sense, and would actually allow for something like more than 400 million combinations.  (Instead of the 17 million or so with NNN-LLL format.)

Well, seeing as all of the older LLL-NNN format ('red letter/number') plates are now off of the road, that pool can be reused.  I can also see going to 7 characters, like in Michigan and Illinois, so we'll have to see.  (I'm intrigued by Illinois' 'NNN NNNN' and 'LNN NNNN' formats.)

Mike

[peterj920]

Looks like preliminary transportation budget talks are underway.  Under the governor's proposal, it looks like we aren't going to see any new major projects for a while with some delays on them and more funding for highway rehabilitation and local aid.  Thoughts?

[mgk920]

Sounds like the bad old days before Tommy Thompson was first elected.



Mike

[DaBigE]

They better not delay the finishing of the Zoo interchange any longer. It has already cost more than it should due to delays caused by previous politicians in the form of emergency bridges and other band aids. Additional delays are only going to inflate the final price. Stop kicking the damn can already. I can live with fewer mega projects, as in many cases they've seemed to get ahead of themselves. I'm all for more rehab and safety improvements.

[peterj920]

They better not delay the finishing of the Zoo interchange any longer. It has already cost more than it should due to delays caused by previous politicians in the form of emergency bridges and other band aids. Additional delays are only going to inflate the final price. Stop kicking the damn can already. I can live with fewer mega projects, as in many cases they've seemed to get ahead of themselves. I'm all for more rehab and safety improvements.

The core of the interchange is supposed to be finished on time.  It's the stretch of I-41 north of Swan Blvd that is supposed to be delayed.  I just noticed today that I-894 between the Zoo Interchange and 84th St is supposed to be resurfaced and re-striped for 8 lanes.  I-94 west of the Zoo Interchange could easily have this done also since the left shoulder is extremely wide.  I think the governor is caving to political pressure from county and municipal leaders that are complaining that they need more state money for local roads. 

I-94 in Racine and southern Milwaukee County is being delayed again and needs to be finished.  That project will continue to aid development and is worth investing in.  Wis 23 is also being delayed again.  Seems like WISDOT is ok with the court case that halted federal funding for that project since it gave an excuse to delay the project despite being approved in 1999. 

I do have a link to Mark Belling's interview with Governor Walker on the transportation budget below.  Mr. Belling does actually does ask him some challenging questions.

http://newstalk1130.iheart.com/media/play/27314594/

I didn't put the interview up to take sides on this issue.  I posted it because this is what is being proposed, but I'm sure that there will be plenty of changes and compromised when the transportation is finalized in the beginning of next year.  Towards the end of the interview the governor is challenged on the roundabouts being built in the state, but kind of dodges that part of the question.  He is also adamant in not raising fuel taxes. 

[triplemultiplex]

I-94 in Racine and southern Milwaukee County is being delayed again and needs to be finished.  That project will continue to aid development and is worth investing in.  Wis 23 is also being delayed again.  Seems like WISDOT is ok with the court case that halted federal funding for that project since it gave an excuse to delay the project despite being approved in 1999.

Those projects are worth delaying in my opinion.  The state has bigger priorities.  A fourth lane on I-94 isn't going to improve stuff as much as a 3rd lane on I-39/90, for example.