Wisconsin notes

[SEWIGuy]

"The plate artwork will stay the same, and the characters will be squeezed onto the metal rectangles without making them any smaller."

<sigh>  I wish they would change the design.  It has been the same for 30 years.

[Big John]

<sigh>  I wish they would change the design.  It has been the same for 30 years.

And voted on with questionable intentions in 1986.  There were 5 plate designs in the contest - 2 designd with the "America's Dairyland" slogan, 2 with other slogans and 1 with no slogan.  The winner was the still-current design as it had no slogan.  But the state legislature would have nothing with a no-slogan plate so they pasted the "America's Dairyland" slogan on it.  If the voters knew the legislature was going to do that, they may have voted for a different design.

[colinstu]

http://urbanmilwaukee.com/2016/12/02/will-dangerous-intersection-finally-be-fixed/

Looks like the northern terminus of the Stadium Freeway is being investigated.
IMO any of these designs would be better than what's there now, but if I had to rank them, it would be: 2, 1, 4, 3.

[The Ghostbuster]

I really don't have a preference, although I would like whichever alternative improves safety the most, and best fits in with the needs of the surrounding neighborhoods.

[peterj920]

I know it won't happen but I'd prefer a new freeway that connects Wis 175 with Wis 145.  It's still on the WISDOT map as a proposed route. 

http://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/travel/road/hwy-maps/milwaukee.pdf

[hobsini2]

I know it won't happen but I'd prefer a new freeway that connects Wis 175 with Wis 145.  It's still on the WISDOT map as a proposed route. 

http://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/travel/road/hwy-maps/milwaukee.pdf

Agreed

[SEWIGuy]

Absolutely not.  There has been enough of those neighborhoods torn up as it is.  There is no need for it.

[colinstu]

Absolutely not.  There has been enough of those neighborhoods torn up as it is.  There is no need for it.

Agreed. Exactly zero need for that.

[mgk920]

Here's the answer to the burning question about the license plates...WI is going to seven characters:

http://www.jsonline.com/story/news/columnists/jim-stingl/2016/12/06/stingl-license-plate-combinations-running-out/95010738/

From the article, I did note that they will be in the LLL-NNNN format (with the dash).  Also, there was a slight error in the article - not every possible number combination has been used.  WisDOT has never issued a regular-issue plate in the current format with a leading zero ('0').  I have not seen it for several years, so it is likely now off of the road, but back during the '00s' I do recall seeing a car being driven in various locations on Appleton's northwest side with the lowest possible plate number in the current format - '101-AAA'.

As for the first state to assign seven character regular-issue plate numbers, I believe that it was California - car plates with '1LLLNNN' were being issued in the late 1970s.  I believe that they are into the 7LLLNNN range now.  In CA, the plate and its number stays with the car for as long as it exists in the state.

Mike

[SEWIGuy]

I know it won't happen but I'd prefer a new freeway that connects Wis 175 with Wis 145.  It's still on the WISDOT map as a proposed route. 

http://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/travel/road/hwy-maps/milwaukee.pdf

BTW, that is not a proposed route as a freeway.  That is simply a proposed re-route of state highway.  That actually dates back to when US-41 still ran on the city streets.  The thought was that, heading southbound, US-41 would re-route along the WI-145 freeway, go south on 60th Street, and eventually meet up with its routing along Appleton Avenue.  Once that occurred, the state highway segment along Appleton Avenue would be removed between 60th Street and the freeway.

However now that US-41 has been replaced with WI-175, that re-route makes no sense given the routing of WI-175 west of the I-41/US-41/US-45 freeway. 

The freeway option hasn't been under considerations for decades and likely never will be again.

[mgk920]

I know it won't happen but I'd prefer a new freeway that connects Wis 175 with Wis 145.  It's still on the WISDOT map as a proposed route. 

http://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/travel/road/hwy-maps/milwaukee.pdf

Agreed

Ditto.  The Park West/Stadium North out to 67th/FdL is one that should have been built.

Howabout incremental major upgrades to Lisbon Ave, 60th St and FdL Ave with that as the ultimate goal?

For now, I'd do Option 2 with a two-lane roundabout at the intersection, also reserving enough ROW for a future high(er)-speed direct turn.

Mike

[SEWIGuy]

I know it won't happen but I'd prefer a new freeway that connects Wis 175 with Wis 145.  It's still on the WISDOT map as a proposed route. 

http://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/travel/road/hwy-maps/milwaukee.pdf

Agreed

Ditto.  The Park West/Stadium North out to 67th/FdL is one that should have been built.

Howabout incremental major upgrades to Lisbon Ave, 60th St and FdL Ave with that as the ultimate goal?

It should not have been built.  To save, what, two or three minutes from your trek from northwest of town to the ballpark?    Milwaukee initially planned for too extensive a freeway system.  What it has right now is sufficient, and any upgrades should happen along the corridors that are already in place.  The only exception may have been a northern bypass, but that will never occur.

[peterj920]

I know it won't happen but I'd prefer a new freeway that connects Wis 175 with Wis 145.  It's still on the WISDOT map as a proposed route. 

http://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/travel/road/hwy-maps/milwaukee.pdf

Agreed

Ditto.  The Park West/Stadium North out to 67th/FdL is one that should have been built.

Howabout incremental major upgrades to Lisbon Ave, 60th St and FdL Ave with that as the ultimate goal?

It should not have been built.  To save, what, two or three minutes from your trek from northwest of town to the ballpark?    Milwaukee initially planned for too extensive a freeway system.  What it has right now is sufficient, and any upgrades should happen along the corridors that are already in place.  The only exception may have been a northern bypass, but that will never occur.

If those freeways were built, it would take traffic off of I-41 and I-94 heading into Downtown and Wis 145/Wis 175 would get some use.  That combination would be shorter than I-94/I-41.  The Park West would have allowed traffic to completely avoid I-94 coming from the northwest.  With how backed up I-94 gets those freeways would be very useful especially with the Zoo Interchange under construction. 

[SEWIGuy]

I know it won't happen but I'd prefer a new freeway that connects Wis 175 with Wis 145.  It's still on the WISDOT map as a proposed route. 

http://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/travel/road/hwy-maps/milwaukee.pdf

Agreed

Ditto.  The Park West/Stadium North out to 67th/FdL is one that should have been built.

Howabout incremental major upgrades to Lisbon Ave, 60th St and FdL Ave with that as the ultimate goal?

It should not have been built.  To save, what, two or three minutes from your trek from northwest of town to the ballpark?    Milwaukee initially planned for too extensive a freeway system.  What it has right now is sufficient, and any upgrades should happen along the corridors that are already in place.  The only exception may have been a northern bypass, but that will never occur.

If those freeways were built, it would take traffic off of I-41 and I-94 heading into Downtown and Wis 145/Wis 175 would get some use.  That combination would be shorter than I-94/I-41.  The Park West would have allowed traffic to completely avoid I-94 coming from the northwest.  With how backed up I-94 gets those freeways would be very useful especially with the Zoo Interchange under construction. 

I-94 only gets backed up during rush hour.  And even then, it isn't terrible.  The idea that we have to build freeways everywhere just to save a few minutes sounds great, but you are cutting through neighborhoods with houses, stores, etc.  Look on a map and see the blocks and blocks that would have been knocked down to build the Park West.  And eyeballing it on a map, that would have saved four miles of travel between Good Hope on the NW side and downtown.  What does that four miles do you?  Just expand I-94 and you help relieve the back ups while minimizing the collateral damage.

[peterj920]

I know it won't happen but I'd prefer a new freeway that connects Wis 175 with Wis 145.  It's still on the WISDOT map as a proposed route. 

http://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/travel/road/hwy-maps/milwaukee.pdf

BTW, that is not a proposed route as a freeway.  That is simply a proposed re-route of state highway.  That actually dates back to when US-41 still ran on the city streets.  The thought was that, heading southbound, US-41 would re-route along the WI-145 freeway, go south on 60th Street, and eventually meet up with its routing along Appleton Avenue.  Once that occurred, the state highway segment along Appleton Avenue would be removed between 60th Street and the freeway.

However now that US-41 has been replaced with WI-175, that re-route makes no sense given the routing of WI-175 west of the I-41/US-41/US-45 freeway. 

The freeway option hasn't been under considerations for decades and likely never will be again.

There was a 1975 proposal for the "Gap Closure Freeway" by the Milwaukee County Execuitive at the time to link the Stadium and Fond Du Lac Freeways. 
http://mobile.onmilwaukee.com/buzz/articles/milwaukeefreewayhistory.html

[The Ghostbuster]

While it would have been nice to have a link between the Stadium and Fond du Lac freeways, you'd have an easier time building a road across Lake Michigan.

[FightingIrish]

The idea of new Milwaukee-area freeways died in the 70s, with a massive amount of freeway revolts, and the final nail driven in by former mayor John Norquist, who actually succeeded in ripping out a stub freeway (the Park East). Therefore, we currently have a few remaining stub freeways (the FDL and the Stadium Freeways) that don't make much sense in modern thinking, but were originally intended for bigger things.

The Stadium Freeway was originally intended to run south along the 43rd Street corridor to connect with I-894. But that freeway would have ripped apart a nice county park and some thriving neighborhoods. So, it was scrapped. And it laid the foundation for the massive, thriving retail district along the current Miller Park Way in West Milwaukee, which all materialized over the past 15 years.

On the north side, the Fond Du Lac Ave Freeway was also canceled from Hampton Ave south to I-43, even after the clearing of a lot of land in the right-of-way. FDL Ave. runs through some really bad neighborhoods (it was the epicenter of the August riots). But further south, there has been considerable commercial development, after decades of sitting empty. The county transit built a new garage and HQ at the south end. And North Avenue is starting to see development in the corridor.

Perhaps a diagonal freeway across the north side would have worked (though I haven't even touched on the homes in Sherman Park). But it could have made things far worse. The county missed a chance at making a freeway through the Good Hope Rd. corridor, but it does flow fast enough to make it suitable for crosstown travel, even moreso than Brown Deer Rd. And forget about the suburban counties - the land is too expensive and the NIMBY voices too powerful. They won't even allow an I-94 exit at Calhoun Rd.!

Therefore, the freeways you have are the freeways you'll always have. Hopefully, the upgrades will be adequate.

[peterj920]

I referenced the article for the Gap Closure Freeway since it's a little known proposal that was Milwaukee County Executive John Doyne's idea to utilize the stub ends of the Stadium and Fond Du Lac Freeways after the other freeways were killed off.  The gap closure freeway is also referenced at wisconsinhighways.org.  There are plenty of remnants of proposed freeways in the Milwaukee area. 

The most obvious one is the I-894 ghost ramps just east of Loomis Rd that served a park and ride, but were completely closed off when the Mitchell Interchange was reconstructed.  The Park West right of way was cleared but is being filled in now with new development from the south end of the North Ave curve on I-43 to the west and northwest.   

The Lake Interchange with I-794 and Lincoln Memorial Dr was built larger to accommodate a Downtown Loop Freeway, and one of the uncompleted ramps that was eventually demolished was used in the Blues Brothers Movie.

The Mequon Rd overpass at I-41 was built extra long so ramps from the Northern Terminus of the Belt Freeway could go under the bridge.  That is the only remnant of that freeway.

Finally there is the I-43/Wis 57 which was the original proposed terminus of the Stadium Freeway.  The southbound I-43 bridge over Wis 57 was built higher than normal it could accommodate future ramps from the Stadium Freeway.  The stretch of the Stadium through Mequon and past Cedarburg was killed of earlier than the stretch south of I-94 which was very close to being built. 

[WISFreeways]

Drove the Beltline the other day and got to witness the reconstructed segment between Verona Rd and Whitney Way. It's looking pretty nice: six through lanes, smooth pavement and the neat gantries you tend to only see in the eastern portions of Wisconsin. 

Here are some photos:
http://imgur.com/a/nVSuQ

[colinstu]

So good to see them ditch Clearview. Madison was big into using that font for awhile but it looks like that has stopped.

[MKEDavenH]

So good to see them ditch Clearview. Madison was big into using that font for awhile but it looks like that has stopped.

The Beltline between Fish Hatchery Rd. and Stoughton Rd. was used as test ground for possibly using Clearview in Wisconsin. I think that may be the only stretch of Wisconsin highway that ever got Clearview. Amusingly, the highway shields on these signs still used Highway Gothic.

[colinstu]

So good to see them ditch Clearview. Madison was big into using that font for awhile but it looks like that has stopped.

The Beltline between Fish Hatchery Rd. and Stoughton Rd. was used as test ground for possibly using Clearview in Wisconsin. I think that may be the only stretch of Wisconsin highway that ever got Clearview. Amusingly, the highway shields on these signs still used Highway Gothic.

That's the correct way to do it (According to the FHWA's MUTCD).

And as far as I know, Clearview is also being discontinued https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2016-01-25/html/2016-01383.htm

[hobsini2]

So good to see them ditch Clearview. Madison was big into using that font for awhile but it looks like that has stopped.

The Beltline between Fish Hatchery Rd. and Stoughton Rd. was used as test ground for possibly using Clearview in Wisconsin. I think that may be the only stretch of Wisconsin highway that ever got Clearview. Amusingly, the highway shields on these signs still used Highway Gothic.

That's the correct way to do it (According to the FHWA's MUTCD).

And as far as I know, Clearview is also being discontinued https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2016-01-25/html/2016-01383.htm

From that source I would agree it is dead. Good. I hated Clearview.

[mvak36]

So good to see them ditch Clearview. Madison was big into using that font for awhile but it looks like that has stopped.

The Beltline between Fish Hatchery Rd. and Stoughton Rd. was used as test ground for possibly using Clearview in Wisconsin. I think that may be the only stretch of Wisconsin highway that ever got Clearview. Amusingly, the highway shields on these signs still used Highway Gothic.

That's the correct way to do it (According to the FHWA's MUTCD).

And as far as I know, Clearview is also being discontinued https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2016-01-25/html/2016-01383.htm

From that source I would agree it is dead. Good. I hated Clearview.

I'd be one of the first ones in that line. I'll be glad to see them gradually get rid of the existing signs out in the field.


iPhone

[jakeroot]

So good to see them ditch Clearview. Madison was big into using that font for awhile but it looks like that has stopped.

The Beltline between Fish Hatchery Rd. and Stoughton Rd. was used as test ground for possibly using Clearview in Wisconsin. I think that may be the only stretch of Wisconsin highway that ever got Clearview. Amusingly, the highway shields on these signs still used Highway Gothic.

That's the correct way to do it (According to the FHWA's MUTCD).

And as far as I know, Clearview is also being discontinued https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2016-01-25/html/2016-01383.htm

From that source I would agree it is dead. Good. I hated Clearview.

I'd be one of the first ones in that line. I'll be glad to see them gradually get rid of the existing signs out in the field.

Couple of points:

A) Clearview isn't necessarily "dead" yet. It's still being installed in many states, and the revocation of the interim approval is being challenged by AASHTO  (page 72)
B) It's gonna be a long time before they start getting rid of existing Clearview signage. Well-manufactured retro-reflective sign panels can last for decades.

Wisconsin may be dumping Clearview. Hooray for them! But Clearview isn't going out without a fight. This is the government, after all. Nothing happens fast.