Wisconsin notes

[jakeroot]

I was wondering was a really so necessary to roundabout all the intersections at the interchanges on the Watertown bypass and the Milton bypass and the Baraboo bypass? As well as the Hwy 29 Hwy FF interchange just west of Green Bay. I just don't see any reason why stop signs couldn't have worked there just fine. Those intersections at least some of them probably hardly get any traffic as they are located in rural areas. If there was a good justifiable reason to have roundabouts there then perhaps I would be open to it but I just don't see it. Stop signs there could have saved a lot of money for other projects. So yes I think that there is a good reason to look into halting roundabout construction it's been overdone no doubt and it's an area where money can be saved and I don't see how this is being unrealistic.

It's entirely possible that those key intersections were expected to experience growth in the next 10 to 20 years, so instead of building a signal, which wouldn't necessarily be good for low-volume intersections in a rural environment, they elected to construct roundabouts, which provide excellent through-put in all environments.

You really have to look at the bigger picture to understand why these roundabouts work as well as they do. The real issue here, and I say this with some apprehension because I do tend to lean conservative, is Scott Walker. Wisconsin wasn't having any issue affording roundabouts until he came into office. Apparently, his transport budget can only afford RIROs and stop signs?

[GeekJedi]

I was wondering was a really so necessary to roundabout all the intersections at the interchanges on the Watertown bypass and the Milton bypass and the Baraboo bypass? As well as the Hwy 29 Hwy FF interchange just west of Green Bay. I just don't see any reason why stop signs couldn't have worked there just fine. Those intersections at least some of them probably hardly get any traffic as they are located in rural areas. If there was a good justifiable reason to have roundabouts there then perhaps I would be open to it but I just don't see it. Stop signs there could have saved a lot of money for other projects. So yes I think that there is a good reason to look into halting roundabout construction it's been overdone no doubt and it's an area where money can be saved and I don't see how this is being unrealistic.

Halting construction of roundabouts because you believe (without really presenting any reasons other than your opinion) they're overdone is what's unreasonable.

Perhaps you should (as Jakeroot mentions) investigate the studies that lead to the roundabouts. That would answer your question in a much more efficient manner than halting anything based on a hunch.

[tchafe1978]

Work will be starting this spring on the West Waukesha Bypass:

http://www.waukeshanow.com/story/news/local/2017/01/19/west-waukesha-bypass/96676602/

[mgk920]

Work will be starting this spring on the West Waukesha Bypass:

http://www.waukeshanow.com/story/news/local/2017/01/19/west-waukesha-bypass/96676602/

Man, this is one of those proposal that I remember from loooong ago and that I thought would always remain a fantasy 'line on the map'.

I am amazed in that it is being built.



Mike

[tchafe1978]

I grew up in the Brookfield/Waukesha area and I can remember it being talked about as a kid back in the 1980s. I never thought it would get built either. It's about time.

[DaBigE]

Fasten your seat belts and grab your popcorn:

Audit: Wisconsin DOT significantly underestimated highway project costs

The DOT underestimated cost estimates for 16 ongoing major highway projects by a total of about $3.1 billion and did not adequately account for the extent to which inflation and unexpected expenses could contribute to cost increases, the audit found.

Costs for 19 completed projects exceeded estimates by $772.5 million, the audit found.

The department also failed to make use of measures it had developed to help streamline its operations. Doing so could have saved money in recent years, state auditor Joe Chrisman wrote in a letter to the Legislature's audit committee.

[colinstu]

well it doesn't help that they see 'lack of funds' and then delay the projects... which ends up costing MILLIONS more in interest. So we get projects that take longer when they don't need to, and we pay more for them.

If they were allowed to stay on track, such findings wouldn't've been found in the audits.

[SEWIGuy]

Ugh.

Please don't tell me that they are going to say "Look...we don't need to raise the gas tax!  We just need to be more efficient!"

I'm all for creating efficiences, but this is mostly a revenue issue.

[The Ghostbuster]

Define being "more efficient." Also, raising the gas tax might not work due to the decades-long actions of building more fuel-efficient cars. Maybe tolls and/or a mileage tax could suffice.

[jakeroot]

Also, raising the gas tax might not work due to the decades-long actions of building more fuel-efficient cars. Maybe tolls and/or a mileage tax could suffice.

That's true, but it's a slow process. I think average industry MPG has actually sat stagnant for a couple years now. Guessing the EPA's wary approach to diesels might be to blame.

Either way, a reasonable uptick in the gas taxes this year or next could make up the deficit in 10 or 15 years, even with an increase in industry-wide MPG averages.

[GeekJedi]

If we would just stop building roundabouts, we wouldn't be in this situation. 

[SEWIGuy]

Define being "more efficient." Also, raising the gas tax might not work due to the decades-long actions of building more fuel-efficient cars. Maybe tolls and/or a mileage tax could suffice.

I used "more efficient" in relation to this quote:

"The department also failed to make use of measures it had developed to help streamline its operations. Doing so could have saved money in recent years, state auditor Joe Chrisman wrote in a letter to the Legislature's audit committee."

[colinstu]

If we would just stop building roundabouts, we wouldn't be in this situation. 

Oh great. this discussion ALL over again.

[GeekJedi]

If we would just stop building roundabouts, we wouldn't be in this situation. 

Oh great. this discussion ALL over again.

It's a joke, and a pre-emptive strike.

[dvferyance]

If we would just stop building roundabouts, we wouldn't be in this situation. 

Oh great. this discussion ALL over again.

It's a joke, and a pre-emptive strike.

This isn't a joke. Roundabouts are very costly and many where not necessary at all like along recently built bypasses. Hwy 20 and 75 in Racine County and Hwy 60 at P in Dodge County just to name a few. I don't see any reason whatsoever what was wrong with stop sings there before. Money could have been saved. It's just a fact not everyone loves roundabouts let's just agree to disagree please. But it goes just beyond roundabouts. I also have an issue with them replacing signs that don't need to be replaced. Last year they did a construction project by the Waukesha bypass and Sunset they replaced all the signs in that area even though all of them were just fine and in no need of replacement. They always replace signs everytime they repave a road regardless of the condition they are in. If there are other ideas of how we can save money sure I would be open to it. But the gas tax is high enough as is.

[jakeroot]

This isn't a joke.

If you don't piss off with the roundabout grouse, you're gonna become one, mate.

But the gas tax is high enough as is.

The motor fuel tax goes down every year due to inflation, because static taxes (like the motor fuel tax) pull in less revenue over time (10 cents today may equal five cents ten years from now). Percentage taxes don't work for fuel because the price of oil varies. Motor fuel taxes have to go up every year just to keep pulling in the same amount of money.

[GeekJedi]

Roundabouts are very costly and many where not necessary at all like along recently built bypasses. Hwy 20 and 75 in Racine County and Hwy 60 at P in Dodge County just to name a few. I don't see any reason whatsoever what was wrong with stop sings there before. Money could have been saved. It's just a fact not everyone loves roundabouts let's just agree to disagree please.

I have no problem with your disdain for roundabouts. I do, however, have a problem with you stating things like "nobody wants them" and "they waste money" and "they're wrong for..." as fact. Those aren't facts. And those statements are actually contradicted (as pointed out here many, many times) with actual facts.

So go ahead and hate 'em. But they're not "very costly and unnecessary". That's been proven as fact.

[texaskdog]

Problem with gas taxes is when government funnels some of it off for other things.  I'm fine with the gas tax equaling what is spent on ROADS

[texaskdog]

http://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=DvDGRj5I&id=2A002AFC35828390790A8C830A644B903F8E2F1E&q=yes+roundabout&simid=608001125147936741&selectedIndex=0&ajaxhist=0

[peterj920]

Passed through Fond Du Lac today and the US 45 route is finalized with the new interchange built at County V open.  US 45 does not appear on any BGS on I-41 so if anyone were to follow US 45 by the signs, the motorist wouldn't know to exit on Wis 23 or US 151.  The reassurance signs with US 151 have US 45 right after County V and I-41, otherwise US 151 signs stand alone.  The only people that really pay attention to it would be road enthusiasts since it's doubtful that many people would religiously follow the route of US 45 anyways in the Fond Du Lac area. 

[colinstu]

Passed through Fond Du Lac today and the US 45 route is finalized with the new interchange built at County V open.  US 45 does not appear on any BGS on I-41 so if anyone were to follow US 45 by the signs, the motorist wouldn't know to exit on Wis 23 or US 151.  The reassurance signs with US 151 have US 45 right after County V and I-41, otherwise US 151 signs stand alone.  The only people that really pay attention to it would be road enthusiasts since it's doubtful that many people would religiously follow the route of US 45 anyways in the Fond Du Lac area. 

Usually there is a sign at the beginning that will say "US-45 FOLLOW I-41"

[peterj920]

Passed through Fond Du Lac today and the US 45 route is finalized with the new interchange built at County V open.  US 45 does not appear on any BGS on I-41 so if anyone were to follow US 45 by the signs, the motorist wouldn't know to exit on Wis 23 or US 151.  The reassurance signs with US 151 have US 45 right after County V and I-41, otherwise US 151 signs stand alone.  The only people that really pay attention to it would be road enthusiasts since it's doubtful that many people would religiously follow the route of US 45 anyways in the Fond Du Lac area. 

Usually there is a sign at the beginning that will say "US-45 FOLLOW I-41"

There's reassurance signs for US 45 on the I-41 mainline and US 45 ahead signs.  There aren't any US 45 signs on the BGS where US 45 exits at US 151 and Wis 23 yet.  There are signs on the ramps but no way of people knowing where to exit if following US 45.  I'm guessing in the future that will be corrected. 

[JMAN_WiS&S]

Eau Claire Area Signal Update
Some signal modifications have been made over the past 6 months in my area so I will list them below.

• Spring 2016
  Protected Left Turns on US 12(Clairemont Ave) at the intersections of: Craig Rd, STH-37(Hendrickson Dr), Patton St, Rudolph Rd, Kieth St, & Fairfax St were replaced with 4 Section Protected/Permissive/Protected only Flashing Yellow Arrow displays. Left turns become protected only for certain movements during periods of heavy traffic.
• Summer 2016
  Protected Left Turns on US 12(Clairemont Ave) at the intersections of: Cameron St, Menomonie St, Stein Blvd, University Dr, London Rd, & Hastings Way were also replaced the same way as above.
• Fall/Winter 2016
  Traffic signals on STH-312(North Crossing) at the intersections of: Old Wells Rd, US 53 Northbound, & US 53 Southbound, were modified to replace 5 section protected/permissive "yield on green ball" left turn signals with 4 section FYA displays. Reverse median mounted trombone arms were installed and each thru lane now has one RYG signal vertically mounted on its own trombone arm. I wasn't able to see the intersections of Northbound Hastings way, Southbound Hastings way, Abbe Hill Dr, or McKinley Rd to determine if similar modifications were made. Jeffers Rd still has its protected only signals without modifications. I presume the intersections west of Clairemont ave also remain unmodified as those have remained relatively untouched over the years aside from new LED inserts. The protected only left turns seem a bit unnecessary.
• Summer 2017
  It has been announced that much needed projects will be happening on arterials in Eau Claire. The two major ones include:
  -$3.3 million: North Clairemont Avenue from the North Crossing to Craig Road.
  The project, scheduled to run from April to October, consists of repairing and replacing concrete and milling off the concrete surface of intersection turn lanes and laying asphalt over them.
  In addition, signs and beam guard will be replaced, and curb, gutter and inlets will be repaired as needed.
  The work will be completed using single-lane closures, and intersections will be closed at times for paving, Mason said.
  "This project is similar to what we did on the North Crossing,"  Mason said, referring to 2016 construction on the four-lane highway.
  -$2.75 million: U.S. 53 from Interstate 94 to Golf Road.
  The surfaces of the travel lanes and ramps at the U.S. 53-I-94 and U.S. 53-Golf Road interchange ramps will be milled off, and then the lanes will be overlaid with asphalt.
  U.S. 53, the interchange ramps and Golf Road will be open to traffic by staged construction at all times. The work is tentatively planned to start in May with completion in September.
  Full Article can be found here -->http://www.leadertelegram.com/News/Front-Page/2017/01/30/Clairemont-work-ahead.html
  

[GeekJedi]

Stupid roundabouts messing up our fun...

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/dot-puts-beltline-interchange-upgrade-in-limbo-total-i-/article_96e493fa-e784-5407-a641-e1660869c118.html

[The Ghostbuster]

I wouldn't blame roundabouts for the delay of the Beltline Interchange Reconstruction project. I'd blame Governor Walker's transportation policies.