Wisconsin notes

[DaBigE]

I wouldn't blame roundabouts for the delay of the Beltline Interchange Reconstruction project. I'd blame Governor Walker's transportation policies.

I'm pretty-sure the    indicates sarcasm (or troll bait).

[dvferyance]

I wouldn't blame roundabouts for the delay of the Beltline Interchange Reconstruction project. I'd blame Governor Walker's transportation policies.

Blame loser Gothlieb he was the DOT secretary. He did a horrible job running that agency.

[SEWIGuy]

I wouldn't blame roundabouts for the delay of the Beltline Interchange Reconstruction project. I'd blame Governor Walker's transportation policies.

Blame loser Gothlieb he was the DOT secretary. He did a horrible job running that agency.

It is much more institutional than the Secretary.

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/dot-puts-beltline-interchange-upgrade-in-limbo-total-i-/article_96e493fa-e784-5407-a641-e1660869c118.html

"One of the projects, on U.S. Highway 10 in central Wisconsin, was approved in 1989 at a cost of $125 million. Still incomplete, it since has cost nearly 4½ times the initial estimate.

The audit finds a similar pattern with 19 highway projects completed from 2006 through 2015. Their combined cost total is $772.5 million more than what the DOT told lawmakers they would cost when they approved the projects.

Cowles didn't blame any individual for the problems identified in the audit, saying they may stem from the department's culture and go back several administrations."

[I-39]

I wouldn't blame roundabouts for the delay of the Beltline Interchange Reconstruction project. I'd blame Governor Walker's transportation policies.

Blame loser Gothlieb he was the DOT secretary. He did a horrible job running that agency.

It is much more institutional than the Secretary.

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/dot-puts-beltline-interchange-upgrade-in-limbo-total-i-/article_96e493fa-e784-5407-a641-e1660869c118.html

"One of the projects, on U.S. Highway 10 in central Wisconsin, was approved in 1989 at a cost of $125 million. Still incomplete, it since has cost nearly 4½ times the initial estimate.

The audit finds a similar pattern with 19 highway projects completed from 2006 through 2015. Their combined cost total is $772.5 million more than what the DOT told lawmakers they would cost when they approved the projects.

Cowles didn't blame any individual for the problems identified in the audit, saying they may stem from the department's culture and go back several administrations."

This proves my point that WisDOT overbuilt it's highway system. Some of the corridors (like US 10) got too elaborate of upgrades when it really wasn't necessary (particularly the Marshfield spur of US 10). WIS 26 is another good example.

Now WisDOT is facing the reality of overspending on unnecessary projects and not having enough money to rebuild its existing infrastructure. The Beltline interchange is in dire need of reconstruction, but we are looking at 10 years at the absolute minimum before anything happens there.

[JREwing78]

Reminder: Rosendale is still a speed trap, and that's not about to change.

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/crime-and-courts/love-it-or-hate-it-rosendale-is-just-the-ticket/article_ec45df46-f32b-5b33-863d-bad4442bb350.html

[triplemultiplex]

I can speak from experience that Rosendale's revenue generating operation has nothing to do with safety.  They tag people all the time on the outskirts of the village where there is nothing but corn fields.  No houses, driveways, business or stupid children throwing balls into the street.

Rosendale gets $30 of the fine for each ticket it writes for low- and intermediate-level speeding citations that ends in a conviction. Income from traffic citations averaged just over $100,000 from 2013 through 2015, or about 14 percent of the village's revenue, according to village clerk Emily Wirkus.

That says it all right there.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

What at this point is ultimately keeping this from ending up like the other nationally-notorious speed traps in other states that the states have ended up coming in and dismantling?

[SSOWorld]

What at this point is ultimately keeping this from ending up like the other nationally-notorious speed traps in other states that the states have ended up coming in and dismantling?

The state put it in.

This area is rife with traps especialy on NFL Sundays where the Packers play at home - as the southwest WI traffic uses it regularly.

[GeekJedi]

Not that I condone the "speed trap" mentality, but the simple solution is to not speed through there. Now, whether or not it's accurate, the story mentions twice how they rarely issue tickets for anyone traveling less than 10 over. That doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

I've never gotten a ticket in Rosendale, but then again I've never gone more than 5 over there.

[DaBigE]

Not that I condone the "speed trap" mentality, but the simple solution is to not speed through there. Now, whether or not it's accurate, the story mentions twice how they rarely issue tickets for anyone traveling less than 10 over. That doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

I've never gotten a ticket in Rosendale, but then again I've never gone more than 5 over there.

Seconded. Or, stay on 151 to 41 and avoid Rosendale altogether. Higher speed limits until you reach Fond du Lac in addition to being a nice 4-lane divided highway. The biggest annoyance is waiting for the light to turn onto 41 NB.

[GeekJedi]

Not that I condone the "speed trap" mentality, but the simple solution is to not speed through there. Now, whether or not it's accurate, the story mentions twice how they rarely issue tickets for anyone traveling less than 10 over. That doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

I've never gotten a ticket in Rosendale, but then again I've never gone more than 5 over there.

Seconded. Or, stay on 151 to 41 and avoid Rosendale altogether. Higher speed limits until you reach Fond du Lac in addition to being a nice 4-lane divided highway. The biggest annoyance is waiting for the light to turn onto 41 NB.

Absolutely. It may be slightly longer mileage-wise, but with the higher speed limit it should take less time.

[DaBigE]

Not that I condone the "speed trap" mentality, but the simple solution is to not speed through there. Now, whether or not it's accurate, the story mentions twice how they rarely issue tickets for anyone traveling less than 10 over. That doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

I've never gotten a ticket in Rosendale, but then again I've never gone more than 5 over there.

Seconded. Or, stay on 151 to 41 and avoid Rosendale altogether. Higher speed limits until you reach Fond du Lac in addition to being a nice 4-lane divided highway. The biggest annoyance is waiting for the light to turn onto 41 NB.

Absolutely. It may be slightly longer mileage-wise, but with the higher speed limit it should take less time.

Google claims taking 151 to 41 adds 7.4 miles, ~ +2 minutes. Looking at the map, it does add a bit of back-tracking, as 151 takes you a bit further east than you need to be.

Of course, being pulled over by the local Barney Fife will add at least 10-minutes to your trip and make you're wallet a bit lighter too. Moral of the story: if you insist on being lead-footed and drive >10 over, make sure you're surrounded by easier targets.

[DaBigE]

Reminder: Rosendale is still a speed trap, and that's not about to change.

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/crime-and-courts/love-it-or-hate-it-rosendale-is-just-the-ticket/article_ec45df46-f32b-5b33-863d-bad4442bb350.html

Follow-up to the above story: Speeding tickets up in state as cops target aggressive drivers

"I can go out on the interstate and sit in a fully marked car at high noon in bright sunshine and nothing but mowed grass around me and I'll pull the laser out and I won't be there 10 minutes. Somebody will blow right by me. We don't have to hide,"  Yahn said. "I don't even think we scratch the surface of the speed problem out there."

"The standard now is 15 over. We can't concern ourselves with somebody going 12 over in a 65 when 97 percent are driving 80 mph or higher,"  Rose said.

[SSOWorld]

That pretty much sums up the diving habits of the majority of those on southern WI freeways - particuluarly around Madison on the triple multiplex.  Most people think that 10 over is pretty much normal.

[slorydn1]

I don't believe it's limited to just Wisconsin. Almost everyone I talk to (I have friends and family all over the country) believe that most roads are under posted, and they drive the speed that they feel comfortable with for the particular roadway/conditions.

My family/friend group's comfort must be towards the lower end of the spectrum because the only one of us who has gotten a ticket in the last 10 years is me, and that was for 80 in a 65 on I-95 near the I-40 interchange in NC at 10PM on a weekend. There was almost no one on the road and I was pacing another vehicle that was about a quarter of a mile ahead of me, so I was going a touch faster than I like to go normally and it bit me. As soon as I saw the trooper jump out of the median I started to pull over, so he probably just went for the easier target of the two.

I will also add that no one in my group has ever had an "at fault" accident and none of us have been in a wreck of any kind in the last 10 years (knock on wood). I guess we could be classified as pretty safe drivers in the grand scheme of things even though we aren't strict adherents to the speed limit.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Set speed limits for a given road based on the 85th percentile speed, and couple that with strict enforcement (no more than a few mph over to account for differences in measuring devices) and steep penalties and I think we will find that epidemic of speeding will go away within a few short years.

Sure, there will always be "that guy". That guy won't be driving for very long.

[jakeroot]

Set speed limits for a given road based on the 85th percentile speed, and couple that with strict enforcement (no more than a few mph over to account for differences in measuring devices) and steep penalties and I think we will find that epidemic of speeding will go away within a few short years.

You shouldn't have to worry too much about enforcement if the speed limit is set appropriately.

Example: If the 85th percentile was 76 mph, the speed limit (IMO) should be 80 mph. If the threshold for a speeding ticket is 10 mph, only those exceeding 90 would be ticketed. Keeping in mind that 85% of cars arent exceeding 76 mph, so those going 90 likely don't account for a significant amount of the traffic. You could set the threshold lower, but those who are posing a danger are only those going significantly faster than other traffic, not a couple of mph's quicker. A threshold too low just pisses off commuters.

[JREwing78]

I generally keep it to no more than 10 over, and usually more like 8 over. It's generally keeping up with faster traffic without daring the police to pull you over. That puts me at about 73-75 on expressways like 151, and about 78 or so on interstates. That's generally about right for conditions.

It doesn't surprise me that agencies tend not to bother pulling motorists over on highways unless they're doing at least 15 over; it's pretty difficult to make a case for ignorance at that point. Few would bother taking it before a judge.

I tend to stick close to the speed limit in urban areas and small towns; they're much less likely to give you a 5 or 10mph cushion before nailing you. Some places are stricter than others; Rock County tends to focus on dangerous speeders instead of ticketing every 5-over driver in sight.

[GeekJedi]

I generally keep it to no more than 10 over, and usually more like 8 over. It's generally keeping up with faster traffic without daring the police to pull you over. That puts me at about 73-75 on expressways like 151, and about 78 or so on interstates. That's generally about right for conditions.

It doesn't surprise me that agencies tend not to bother pulling motorists over on highways unless they're doing at least 15 over; it's pretty difficult to make a case for ignorance at that point. Few would bother taking it before a judge.

I tend to stick close to the speed limit in urban areas and small towns; they're much less likely to give you a 5 or 10mph cushion before nailing you. Some places are stricter than others; Rock County tends to focus on dangerous speeders instead of ticketing every 5-over driver in sight.

That's pretty much the same thing I do. Haven't gotten a ticket in years.

[SEWIGuy]

I generally keep it to no more than 10 over, and usually more like 8 over. It's generally keeping up with faster traffic without daring the police to pull you over. That puts me at about 73-75 on expressways like 151, and about 78 or so on interstates. That's generally about right for conditions.

It doesn't surprise me that agencies tend not to bother pulling motorists over on highways unless they're doing at least 15 over; it's pretty difficult to make a case for ignorance at that point. Few would bother taking it before a judge.

I tend to stick close to the speed limit in urban areas and small towns; they're much less likely to give you a 5 or 10mph cushion before nailing you. Some places are stricter than others; Rock County tends to focus on dangerous speeders instead of ticketing every 5-over driver in sight.

Ditto.  I have received one speeding ticket in 25 years, and it was completely on me for accelerating out of a construction zone too soon.  As soon as he pulled me over I said "Yep.  I knew it and it's my fault."  (He knocked it down from 10-15 over to 0-10 over and didn't double the fine for the construction zone.  Always fall on your sword.)

[midwesternroadguy]

2017 Wisconsin Official Highway Map is out--both on-line and paper copies.  My paper copy came today.  As expected, there are very few updates from the (secret) 2016 version:

1) The expressway extension of STH 16/26 north of Watertown
2) The incorporation of the villages of Fox Crossing in Winnebago County and Windsor in Dane County

Unfortunately, the Madison Beltline and US 151 NE of I-39 are still erroneously shown as a non-freeway divided highway again, and the incorporation of Somers and Salem Lakes, both in Kenosha County were missed as they have no population listed in the index or are missing in the Kenosha inset. 

I think this is one of the most confusing and uninspired covers to be used on a Wisconsin OHM.  While the photo is at a very beautiful place (Wyalusing), the image is mostly of rock and is very muddy.  One has to look hard to figure out that this pamphlet is actually a highway map of Wisconsin. 

[mgk920]

2017 Wisconsin Official Highway Map is out--both on-line and paper copies.  My paper copy came today.  As expected, there are very few updates from the (secret) 2016 version:

1) The expressway extension of STH 16/26 north of Watertown
2) The incorporation of the villages of Fox Crossing in Winnebago County and Windsor in Dane County

Unfortunately, the Madison Beltline and US 151 NE of I-39 are still erroneously shown as a non-freeway divided highway again, and the incorporation of Somers and Salem Lakes, both in Kenosha County were missed as they have no population listed in the index or are missing in the Kenosha inset. 

I think this is one of the most confusing and uninspired covers to be used on a Wisconsin OHM.  While the photo is at a very beautiful place (Wyalusing), the image is mostly of rock and is very muddy.  One has to look hard to figure out that this pamphlet is actually a highway map of Wisconsin.

- Going over these, 'Fox Crossing' is a two-faced kind of place, the part west of Little Lake Butte des Morts (the I-41/US 10/WI 441 Bridgeview interchange is in it) is a solid, 'Ashwaubenon-like' geographic entity that, although it needs a LOT of public works and planning work (believe me, a local, it does!), is needed to properly serve its area.  The part east of Little Lake Butte des Morts is a true municipal mess and the best reason of all as to why the State of Wisconsin badly needs top to bottom local government reform.  Just check a closely detailed map of that part of Winnebago County (the part north of Lake Winnebago and east of the Fox River/Little Lake Buttes des Morts) to see why.

- 'Windsor' - Someone explain to me the border between them and the Village of De Forest.  The two should merge.

- 'Salem Lakes' is a merger between the existing Village of Silver Lake and Salem Township.  It's not shown because it hasn't taken effect yet.  It becomes official this Tuesday (2017-02-14).  There is a boundary agreement between Salem Township and the Village of Paddock Lake, which Salem Township surrounds about 90 percent of, that guarantees that Paddock Lake will receive significant amounts of territory from Salem regardless of the township's corporate status.  See: http://www.townofsalem.net/vertical/sites/%7BFD43A93D-1DA7-4F52-8644-C09DA66C3401%7D/uploads/Salem-Paddock_Lake_Boundary_Agreement_and_Growth_Area.pdf for details and a map.

- 'Somers' is the result of a boundary agreement between the City of Kenosha and the township, allowing the city to annex numerous shreds and remnants of the township to logically square off its border while allowing the rest of the township to incorporate.  See: http://www.somers.org/sites/default/files/SomersNewVilTownMap2016_0.pdf for a detailed map.  The incorporation took effect on 2016-01-01.

Interesting stuff.

Mike

[mgk920]

I also note that Maine Township (Marathon County) was incorporated as a village at the end of 2015, this as part of special legislation that was introduced in the July, 2015 state budget update, as a way of trying to solve the problems in the Village of Brokaw, which is financially failing and will otherwise be forced to dissolve.  This incorporation includes everything along US 51 from the Wausau city limits to the Lincoln County line.  A cooperative agreement (which I find strange in that the City of Wausau was not involved/invited to the table) between Maine, Brokaw and Texas Township (the two townships would be stuck with Brokaw's mess if they simply dissolved) has Brokaw merging with Maine in the near future and Texas getting considerations from Maine.

We'll see how well this works out.

Mike

[peterj920]

Drove on I-41 in Green Bay today and Wis 32 shields were added to every I-41 BGS between Wis 54 and County G.  Ashland Ave is closing for reconstruction today and it's rare to see signs placed on so many BGS for a detour.  The red arrows were included.  Have to wonder if it's possible that Ashland Ave will be turned over to De Pere, Ashwaubenon, and Green Bay once reconstruction is finished? 

[midwesternroadguy]

The Maine/Brokaw/Texas story is really quite incredible as municipal interactions go.   It is worth reading about. 

I would think that it the incorporation of Salem Lakes would be appropriate to show as it occurs one week after the release of the state highway map. 

The entire civil township of Somers did not incorporate.   The lesser-developed western half remains unincorporated.  This reflects conditions of incorporation implemented by the WI Department of Administration stating that if there are discrepancies in the level of development within a town, that only the urban portion should incorporate.  This explains why only part of Harrison and Bloomfield incorporated recently.  It does not explain why all of Windsor incorporated.  Other incorporation efforts to watch:  Midway in LaCrosse County, Ledgeview in Brown County, Town of Beloit, Town of Lisbon and Town of Brookfield in Waukesha County.   How about Grand Chute?  This was shot down in the 1980s, any effort to revive it? Any other incorporations?   It should also be noted that the towns of Blooming Grove, Burke, and Madison have agreements in place to dissolve into the surrounding incorporated municipalities (Cities of Madison or Sun Prairie or DeForest or Fitchburg) that are well mapped in each of the boundary agreements that can be found online.  These dissolutions will occur within the next 20 years, and seem to be appropriate and create logical new boundaries. 

[SEWIGuy]

The entire civil township of Somers did not incorporate.   The lesser-developed western half remains unincorporated.  This reflects conditions of incorporation implemented by the WI Department of Administration stating that if there are discrepancies in the level of development within a town, that only the urban portion should incorporate.   

To prevent another Fitchburg-type situation?  There are still plenty of parts of the City of Fitchburg that are very much rural and unchanged from when I grew up there 30-40 years ago.