Wisconsin notes

[skluth]

County F/Scheuring Road in nearby DePere is almost as bad. Six roundabouts within 1 3/4 miles. https://www.google.com/maps/@44.430027,-88.1011814,16.25z?hl=en

I am with you on that one. I am ok with some roundabouts but what drives me nuts the most are series of them having 3 or 4 within a short distance or having them on high speed roads. If WisDOT would avoid those kind of roundabouts then I would say I am ok with them.

Yeah, that's a tough one. I do agree with you on that - multiple successive roundabouts can be confusing. Wanderer2575 has a great point though - that would be a mess if it was all signalized. I think that in that area, the options were a bunch of signalized intersections, change road access, or roundabouts.

One more factor in the Shawano Avenue cluster is that many of the roundabouts are two and occasionally three lanes wide. These aren't simple, low-volume roundabouts. These are high traffic with speeds between them up to 45 mph. Just converting the I-41 roundabout pair to a DDI would help immensely, at least with visitors.

[jakeroot]

^^ signals surrounded by roundabouts spell danger for the roundabouts. Traffic can quickly back up into the roundabouts.

[Roadguy]

Way better to have the roundabouts than stoplights.   Intersections closely spaced with stoplights are a nightmare and impossible to coordinate.  A DDI only works when there is low through traffic and high percentages of turning traffic.  At 41, a high enough percentage of traffic flows through the interchange that a DDI would fail quickly with traffic backing up between the two stoplights at the ramps.

The old configuration of Dousman Street and Shawano Avenue running parallel to each other under 41 always backed up in the AM and PM rush hours.  Too difficult to coordinate the stoplights when they were that close.  The lack of adequate length turn lanes didn't help as well.

The new configuration with roundabouts at Packerland, Duck Creek Parkway, 41 ramps southbound, 41 ramps northbound, and Taylor make sense.  Stoplights would have required a much wider footprint to accommodate the dual lefts and right turn lanes needed at these intersections and the traffic queues at the stoplights would have backed up into each other due to the closely spaced intersections.

[The Ghostbuster]

I wouldn't mind having more roundabouts here in Madison. Where they would actually go is another discussion.

[triplemultiplex]

When are they going to finish the upgrades between County FF and WIS 32? That should have been done a while ago.

Whenever they can acquire funding.  That upgrade is "shovel ready" and in my opinion, the traffic warrants the freeway conversion.  The party of penny wise, pound foolish is in charge so take it up with them.

[I-39]

When are they going to finish the upgrades between County FF and WIS 32? That should have been done a while ago.

Whenever they can acquire funding.  That upgrade is "shovel ready" and in my opinion, the traffic warrants the freeway conversion.  The party of penny wise, pound foolish is in charge so take it up with them.

It's as simple as putting a new interchange and one new overpass. Yet, they think putting an overpass at St. Augustine Rd should be a priority over that, smh.

[wanderer2575]

^^ signals surrounded by roundabouts spell danger for the roundabouts. Traffic can quickly back up into the roundabouts.

Such as this winner built a couple years ago in Farmington Hills, MI.  This satellite view must have been taken on a Sunday morning.  It's routine, especially during weekday rush hour, for northbound Orchard Lake Road to back up into the roundabout.

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5288838,-83.3593183,290m/data=!3m1!1e3

[jakeroot]

^^ signals surrounded by roundabouts spell danger for the roundabouts. Traffic can quickly back up into the roundabouts.

Such as this winner built a couple years ago in Farmington Hills, MI.  This satellite view must have been taken on a Sunday morning.  It's routine, especially during weekday rush hour, for northbound Orchard Lake Road to back up into the roundabout.

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5288838,-83.3593183,290m/data=!3m1!1e3

With the 3D imagery turned on, you can actually see a truck sitting in the roundabout. Generally speaking, vehicles are only captured in Google's 3D imagery when they're sitting still.

Still, that does look to be a mess. You could easily fix the entire thing by making it a gigantic signalised triangle-about, but engineers don't seem to be as creative as they once were.

[The Ghostbuster]

If there was sufficient right-of-way to do something else at the intersection, I'm sure they would have done it. Also, the Northwest Expressway (M-10) was once proposed to go further northwest, but the development has regulated the extension to the dustbins of history.

[Revive 755]

If there was sufficient right-of-way to do something else at the intersection, I'm sure they would have done it.

Roundabouts are not always easy on ROW either.  The Streetview images from the time prior to the roundabout show space that could have been used to improve the Orchard Lake/14 Mile intersection with adding a NB dual left or a third through lane SB.

[jakeroot]

They should at least paint some yellow boxes in the conflict areas, in an attempt to contain junction blocking.

Beyond that, there's not much that can be done with the current layout. The only real option would be to change the left/right turns into yields. Yes, that would mean a triple left yield from SB to SB, a double left yield from NB to WB, a double right yield NB to NB, and a triple right yield EB to SB. But it would mostly eliminate the chance of junction blocking!

For those concerned of the possible safety issues, the roundabout has a triple lane entry, plus the right turns are already "yield" situations due to the permittance of right-on-red. The only change would be the left turns.

[GeekJedi]

Speaking of roundabouts, I went through the intersection of WI-164 and WI-167 up in Richfield on Sunday, and that looks to be a prime candidate for one. There was a decent line of cars NB and SB on WI-164 queuing at the 4-way stop, with no EB/WB traffic on WI-167. However, that does change on other days/times of the week, so a 2-way stop wouldn't work there. A roundabout would have cleared that queue and kept it clear.

[JREwing78]

I-39/90 traffic near Edgerton, WI recently got switched over to 2-way operation on the northbound bridge over Lake Koshkonong. WisDOT posted this on their Facebook page:

[triplemultiplex]

Not to be too pedantic, but it's the Rock River.
The new bridge is noticeably higher than the one it replaced.  Makes for less of an elevation change for trucks.

If you look closely at the new bridge, you'll see the tops of the support columns sticking out past the edge of the parapet in the (future) median.  This means there is the ability to add more deck for a fourth lane in the future.  (The current deck and parapets are in their finished condition to handle 3 lanes with full shoulders once in final configuration.)

[JREwing78]

Considering the minor additional cost to fit wider support structures, and the likelihood traffic demands will justify an 8-laning in the next 50 years, it's a smart move to go wider.

Having an easier grade will make life easier on trucks (and other slow-moving vehicles struggling to climb the hill). But I'm still concerned that the southbound bridge, as designed, will force slower merging vehicles from Hwy 59 into traffic before they're able to reach highway speed. However, the WisDOT reps I spoke with didn't share that view. Apparently, at least on paper, the on-ramp will be sufficient without extending it onto the bridge.

[mgk920]

WisDOT appears, at least here in the Appleton area, to be moving very quickly to eliminate the ubiquitous 'trombone arm' horizontal overhead traffic signals from intersections on roads that they control.  Right now, there are two separate projects that do that in the western part of the metro area, WI 125 (College Ave) from I-41 eastward to the railroad yard bridge and WI 15 (Northland Ave and Greenville Rd) from I-41 westward through the Greenville area.



Mike

[I-39]

WisDOT did admit on the I-39/90 Facebook page that the piers were built wider to accommodate a potential widening to eight lanes in the future.

[dvferyance]

WisDOT appears, at least here in the Appleton area, to be moving very quickly to eliminate the ubiquitous 'trombone arm' horizontal overhead traffic signals from intersections on roads that they control.  Right now, there are two separate projects that do that in the western part of the metro area, WI 125 (College Ave) from I-41 eastward to the railroad yard bridge and WI 15 (Northland Ave and Greenville Rd) from I-41 westward through the Greenville area.



Mike

They are dissapearing fast in Milwaukee County as well.

[peterj920]

WisDOT appears, at least here in the Appleton area, to be moving very quickly to eliminate the ubiquitous 'trombone arm' horizontal overhead traffic signals from intersections on roads that they control.  Right now, there are two separate projects that do that in the western part of the metro area, WI 125 (College Ave) from I-41 eastward to the railroad yard bridge and WI 15 (Northland Ave and Greenville Rd) from I-41 westward through the Greenville area.



Mike

Wis 32/Ashland Ave is also undergoing signal replacement with the construction project going on now. WISDOT is going to be replacing signals on every multilane road project from here on out.  The resurfacing of Wis 125 is badly needed and I'm looking forward to the smoother surface. 


Within Green Bay itself they've been using monotubes for years.  Only difference is that they were horizontal in the past and now they're being mounted vertically. 

[I-39]

WisDOT appears, at least here in the Appleton area, to be moving very quickly to eliminate the ubiquitous 'trombone arm' horizontal overhead traffic signals from intersections on roads that they control.  Right now, there are two separate projects that do that in the western part of the metro area, WI 125 (College Ave) from I-41 eastward to the railroad yard bridge and WI 15 (Northland Ave and Greenville Rd) from I-41 westward through the Greenville area.



Mike

Wis 32/Ashland Ave is also undergoing signal replacement with the construction project going on now. WISDOT is going to be replacing signals on every multilane road project from here on out.  The resurfacing of Wis 125 is badly needed and I'm looking forward to the smoother surface. 


Within Green Bay itself they've been using monotubes for years.  Only difference is that they were horizontal in the past and now they're being mounted vertically.

I never understood why Wisconsin had those kind of traffic signals, they looked kind of goofy and confusing.

[jakeroot]

What is Wisconsin doing for signal replacement projects, where there are medians (in which signals were formerly placed?) Are they still placing signals in the median?

[Milwaukee, WY]

They do place the monotubes in the medians. Fairly often, actually.






iPhone

[The Ghostbuster]

It does seem like monotube traffic signals are the wave of the future here in Wisconsin. Although I'm sure plenty of horizontal signals will still be constructed.

[dvferyance]

It does seem like monotube traffic signals are the wave of the future here in Wisconsin. Although I'm sure plenty of horizontal signals will still be constructed.

Hardly perhaps at a few occasional minor intersections and that is about it. The old style arm is still being used sometimes but the light is hung vertically. I never understood myself when Wisconsin once had a very unusual traffic light setup. It would be nice to know the history as to why it was picked for some reason.

[jakeroot]

It does seem like monotube traffic signals are the wave of the future here in Wisconsin. Although I'm sure plenty of horizontal signals will still be constructed.

Hardly perhaps at a few occasional minor intersections and that is about it. The old style arm is still being used sometimes but the light is hung vertically. I never understood myself when Wisconsin once had a very unusual traffic light setup. It would be nice to know the history as to why it was picked for some reason.

Color me interested as well. Wisconsin, up until recently, had (IMO) the most unique signal requirements of any state in the nation. By the far the heaviest user of pole-mounted signals.