Wisconsin notes

[SEWIGuy]

So I would have all highways end at WI-100 in Milwaukee.  I would reroute US-151 in Madison to the freeways.  The only route that would survive in Green Bay is US-141, etc.  That doesn't mean that they would go without state funding.  Just no longer signed. 

There's a purpose to the US-151 routing through downtown Madison. Personally, I'd would reroute US-151 to the Beltline and I-39/90, but then sign a new Hwy 1 on John Nolen Drive from the Beltline, then over the current US-151 routing back to I-39/90/94.

What is the purpose?  It's not the direct route through downtown, especially on the west side.  It sends drivers down Park Street, which is the long way to get anywhere.

Trucks.  Trucks need a truck route into places.  Using Indianapolis as an example for a place with no state or US routes, I don't understand how we allow state DOTs to abandon their responsibility to maintain a thorough network of truck routes.  Now that Indianapolis canceled every US and state route inside of I-465, I haven't the foggiest idea where you would be allowed to drive a truck.  Of course, there ARE still truck routes, but they aren't maintained by the state.  Madison has more truck routes too, other than US151, but I don't see why a municipality would want to maintain the truck routes, since they're the most heavily damaged by far, and thus the costliest to maintain.

Again, I would decouple the idea of state maintenance from signage.  The state can still maintain the route, it just should be signed best to aid navigation.  Wisconsin has gotten ridiculous with how it signs highways now due to it being coupled with maintenance - look at US-45's re-route around Fond du Lac.

[FightingIrish]

It would be a good opportunity to decommission WI-241 and end WI-36 at I-41/43/894.

Unlikely. WIS 241 is a pretty major road on the south side. Also lots of newer development there. Plus, the counties typically hold on to state route mileage until needed for other projects (such as WIS 794 replacing WIS 62, or Waukesha County dropping WIS 74 to complete the US 18 bypass). If any state route mileage leaves Milwaukee County, I would expect WIS 24 or parts of WIS 57 to go first.

I thought 74 was dropped because Menomonee Falls wanted it. It had nothing to do with the Waukesha bypass as 18 inside the bypass was turned over to the city of Waukesha that was already the tradeoff with the bypass. Why would you want 241 decommissioned? Aside from it being a major route on the southside haven't we had more than enough of that already? I know many disagree with me on this but I think the 74 decommissioning was a huge mistake it being once the major route between I-41 and the Sussex Pewaukee area. Now that Menomonee Falls owns the road they put that stupid truck weight limit on it while the Sussex Pewaukee areas has a lot of major industries including Quad Graphics. Now trucks have to take major detours to get to them. It was unfair that the falls got what they wanted but Sussex and Pewaukee had no say in it. We had to screw up industry just so the falls could make their downtown perfect not very smart.

As I understand it, Wisconsin maintains a tight mileage budget on state highways. To  create a new route, equivalent mileage needs to be taken away somewhere. And I think it goes by county (i.e. WIS 62 in Cudahy disappeared once nearby WIS 794 was designated).

Menomonee Falls wanting to take over Main Street was just one factor in the demise of WIS 74 (aside from the fact that most of the route had already been taken away or re-routed many times. WIS 74 stuck around only long enough to set the designation of the west Waukesha bypass (including the soon-to-be relocated US 18 and the new WIS 318 connector to I-94). With that, WIS 74 could finally be removed.

As I've said before, I'm guessing the only reason WIS 24, and WIS 57 south of Capitol Drive, exist, is to swap for possible future routes, or to merely hold on to their state mileage. I still stand by my idea of Good Hope Road being upgraded to a state route. It's a really good east-west route, and quite a bit quicker than WIS 100 and WIS 190 above and below them. Since the Bay Freeway was never built, this could almost come close.

ON EDIT: I realized that WIS 57 probably exists south of Capitol Drive because of the 27th Street bridge over the Menomonee Valley. Makes more sense than running a state highway up N. 20th Street. Also makes me wonder why Layton Blvd. doesn't meet state route standards while that puny little street does.

[SEWIGuy]

ON EDIT: I realized that WIS 57 probably exists south of Capitol Drive because of the 27th Street bridge over the Menomonee Valley. Makes more sense than running a state highway up N. 20th Street. Also makes me wonder why Layton Blvd. doesn't meet state route standards while that puny little street does.

It could be the reason but I'm not sure.  There are large viaducts the valley at 16th, 27th and 35th street, and only the 27th one has a state highway designation.

WI-57 has been on that route from the very beginning of the state highway system.  In fact it used to head south along Layton Blvd and WI-241 to Racine before being supplanted by US-41. 

Layton Blvd lost its highway designation because the people in that neighborhood no longer wanted it.

[The Ghostbuster]

Here's an explaination on what happened to old US 41 on Layton Blvd. in 1999: http://wisconsinhighways.org/listings/WiscHwys200-399.html
See the STH-241 and Former STH-341 entries for details.

[MantyMadTown]

https://fox11online.com/news/local/appletons-diverging-diamond-interchange-opening-on-saturday

WISDOT just opened the new diverging diamond interchange at WIS 441 and US 10/Oneida St in Appleton last Saturday. Have any of you checked it out?

[mgk920]

https://fox11online.com/news/local/appletons-diverging-diamond-interchange-opening-on-saturday

WISDOT just opened the new diverging diamond interchange at WIS 441 and US 10/Oneida St in Appleton last Saturday. Have any of you checked it out?

I just drove through it as I arrived back in the city from a daytrip to Milwaukee a couple of hours ago.  Very simple and straightforward to navigate 'on the ground'.  The rest of the street from there to downtown Appleton is pretty nice now, too.  BTW, IMHO, WisDOT should mark it as a state highway (WI 510?), since the last that I heard it still is one, albeit a 'secret' one, from US 10/WI 441 northwards to and across the Fox River bridge ('Oneida Skyline Bridge').

The Appleton Police Department has also reported no problems with it so far.

Mike

[mrose]

As I understand it, Wisconsin maintains a tight mileage budget on state highways. To  create a new route, equivalent mileage needs to be taken away somewhere. And I think it goes by county (i.e. WIS 62 in Cudahy disappeared once nearby WIS 794 was designated).

I believe this is correct; I noticed that WI-184 disappeared and changed to Co "H" when they extended WI-104.

As I've said before, I'm guessing the only reason WIS 24, and WIS 57 south of Capitol Drive, exist, is to swap for possible future routes, or to merely hold on to their state mileage. I still stand by my idea of Good Hope Road being upgraded to a state route. It's a really good east-west route, and quite a bit quicker than WIS 100 and WIS 190 above and below them. Since the Bay Freeway was never built, this could almost come close.

I've never been able to figure out why WI-24 just arbitrarily ends like it does at the Milwaukee/Waukesha CO line.

[FightingIrish]

As I understand it, Wisconsin maintains a tight mileage budget on state highways. To  create a new route, equivalent mileage needs to be taken away somewhere. And I think it goes by county (i.e. WIS 62 in Cudahy disappeared once nearby WIS 794 was designated).

I believe this is correct; I noticed that WI-184 disappeared and changed to Co "H" when they extended WI-104.

As I've said before, I'm guessing the only reason WIS 24, and WIS 57 south of Capitol Drive, exist, is to swap for possible future routes, or to merely hold on to their state mileage. I still stand by my idea of Good Hope Road being upgraded to a state route. It's a really good east-west route, and quite a bit quicker than WIS 100 and WIS 190 above and below them. Since the Bay Freeway was never built, this could almost come close.

I've never been able to figure out why WI-24 just arbitrarily ends like it does at the Milwaukee/Waukesha CO line.

And if WIS 794 ever gets extended down to WIS 100, Milwaukee County will need the mileage. WIS 57 south of Capitol Drive will probably be first to go. N 20th St. isn't what I would consider an optimal state route. And N 27th St. runs through one of the worst sections of town. But, as someone else pointed out, it's probably because of the bridge over the Valley.

WIS 24, on the other hand, is a pretty important route on the south side. Strange how it just ends abruptly at the county line.

[MantyMadTown]

As I understand it, Wisconsin maintains a tight mileage budget on state highways. To  create a new route, equivalent mileage needs to be taken away somewhere. And I think it goes by county (i.e. WIS 62 in Cudahy disappeared once nearby WIS 794 was designated).

I believe this is correct; I noticed that WI-184 disappeared and changed to Co "H" when they extended WI-104.

As I've said before, I'm guessing the only reason WIS 24, and WIS 57 south of Capitol Drive, exist, is to swap for possible future routes, or to merely hold on to their state mileage. I still stand by my idea of Good Hope Road being upgraded to a state route. It's a really good east-west route, and quite a bit quicker than WIS 100 and WIS 190 above and below them. Since the Bay Freeway was never built, this could almost come close.

I've never been able to figure out why WI-24 just arbitrarily ends like it does at the Milwaukee/Waukesha CO line.

And if WIS 794 ever gets extended down to WIS 100, Milwaukee County will need the mileage. WIS 57 south of Capitol Drive will probably be first to go. N 20th St. isn't what I would consider an optimal state route. And N 27th St. runs through one of the worst sections of town. But, as someone else pointed out, it's probably because of the bridge over the Valley.

WIS 24, on the other hand, is a pretty important route on the south side. Strange how it just ends abruptly at the county line.

WISDOT should re-extend it to WIS 164 or WIS 83.

[SEWIGuy]

Why?  It's basically a local road that parallels I-43 the entire way.

I really, really don't like how Wisconsin ties the highway designation with funding.  Highway designations should first and foremost help to aid navigation, and navigation has gotten messed up too many times.

US-45 in Fond du Lac...WI-57 in Milwaukee...

[paulthemapguy]

WisDot is probably trying to transfer WI-24 over to local control, but Waukesha County is the only one that accepted the offer.  That would explain why it ends abruptly at the county line.  The freight trucks that would use WI-24 probably all use I-43 now, so WisDot probably finds WI-24 to be redundant, now.

[SEWIGuy]

My recollection is that they eliminated WI-24 in Waukesha County when WI-164 was extended south to end at WI-36.

[MantyMadTown]

If WIS 24 is supposed to end at the Waukesha County line then I don't see any benefit of keeping it past 108th St. There isn't anything past there that makes it worth keeping unless it goes all the way to Muskego or WIS 164.

[SEWIGuy]

If WIS 24 is supposed to end at the Waukesha County line then I don't see any benefit of keeping it past 108th St. There isn't anything past there that makes it worth keeping unless it goes all the way to Muskego or WIS 164.

Right.  Really the entire designation of the highway is meaningless as are most urban state highways. 

[The Ghostbuster]

I wonder why they only truncated it to the Milwaukee/Waukesha County Line in the late 1980's. It should have been truncated to US 45/STH-100. STH-24 west of 45/100 could have also been CTH-L, as I do not think there is a CTH-L in Milwaukee County. Correct me if I'm wrong, though.

[SEWIGuy]

I wonder why they only truncated it to the Milwaukee/Waukesha County Line in the late 1980's. It should have been truncated to US 45/STH-100. STH-24 west of 45/100 could have also been CTH-L, as I do not think there is a CTH-L in Milwaukee County. Correct me if I'm wrong, though.

My guess is that Milwaukee County is holding onto every inch of state highway it can. 

[MantyMadTown]

I wonder why they only truncated it to the Milwaukee/Waukesha County Line in the late 1980's. It should have been truncated to US 45/STH-100. STH-24 west of 45/100 could have also been CTH-L, as I do not think there is a CTH-L in Milwaukee County. Correct me if I'm wrong, though.

This is exactly what I was trying to say. I also like the idea of extending CTH-L to follow the rest of WIS 24 until US 45/WIS 100.

[dvferyance]

Why?  It's basically a local road that parallels I-43 the entire way.

I really, really don't like how Wisconsin ties the highway designation with funding.  Highway designations should first and foremost help to aid navigation, and navigation has gotten messed up too many times.

US-45 in Fond du Lac...WI-57 in Milwaukee...

Not really WI-24 or what used to be of it is really a good 2 or 3 miles south of I-43 in Muskego. It really isn't until west of Big Bend it gets closer. I really think WI-24 should be restored in it's entire length but if it just was up to WI-164 I would be just fine with that. There is enough traffic east of Big Bend to justify it as a state highway.

[dvferyance]

It would be a good opportunity to decommission WI-241 and end WI-36 at I-41/43/894.

Unlikely. WIS 241 is a pretty major road on the south side. Also lots of newer development there. Plus, the counties typically hold on to state route mileage until needed for other projects (such as WIS 794 replacing WIS 62, or Waukesha County dropping WIS 74 to complete the US 18 bypass). If any state route mileage leaves Milwaukee County, I would expect WIS 24 or parts of WIS 57 to go first.

I thought 74 was dropped because Menomonee Falls wanted it. It had nothing to do with the Waukesha bypass as 18 inside the bypass was turned over to the city of Waukesha that was already the tradeoff with the bypass. Why would you want 241 decommissioned? Aside from it being a major route on the southside haven't we had more than enough of that already? I know many disagree with me on this but I think the 74 decommissioning was a huge mistake it being once the major route between I-41 and the Sussex Pewaukee area. Now that Menomonee Falls owns the road they put that stupid truck weight limit on it while the Sussex Pewaukee areas has a lot of major industries including Quad Graphics. Now trucks have to take major detours to get to them. It was unfair that the falls got what they wanted but Sussex and Pewaukee had no say in it. We had to screw up industry just so the falls could make their downtown perfect not very smart.

WI-74 was decommissioned when WI-318 came about. And 318 is much more important than WI-74.

And I want WI-241 decommissioned because I don't see much purpose to state highways on major city streets.  Unless they aid navigation, why even have them?

So I would have all highways end at WI-100 in Milwaukee.  I would reroute US-151 in Madison to the freeways.  The only route that would survive in Green Bay is US-141, etc.  That doesn't mean that they would go without state funding.  Just no longer signed.

WI-318 is more important than WI-74? Are you kidding me WI-318 is like less than 2 miles long. It could be unsinged for that matter. I actually have been on the new WI-318 there really isn't much traffic on it at all.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

There's probably not a lot of traffic on 318 yet because:

A. it's new

B. the road it's going to feed into isn't really built yet/under construction

[SEWIGuy]

It would be a good opportunity to decommission WI-241 and end WI-36 at I-41/43/894.

Unlikely. WIS 241 is a pretty major road on the south side. Also lots of newer development there. Plus, the counties typically hold on to state route mileage until needed for other projects (such as WIS 794 replacing WIS 62, or Waukesha County dropping WIS 74 to complete the US 18 bypass). If any state route mileage leaves Milwaukee County, I would expect WIS 24 or parts of WIS 57 to go first.

I thought 74 was dropped because Menomonee Falls wanted it. It had nothing to do with the Waukesha bypass as 18 inside the bypass was turned over to the city of Waukesha that was already the tradeoff with the bypass. Why would you want 241 decommissioned? Aside from it being a major route on the southside haven't we had more than enough of that already? I know many disagree with me on this but I think the 74 decommissioning was a huge mistake it being once the major route between I-41 and the Sussex Pewaukee area. Now that Menomonee Falls owns the road they put that stupid truck weight limit on it while the Sussex Pewaukee areas has a lot of major industries including Quad Graphics. Now trucks have to take major detours to get to them. It was unfair that the falls got what they wanted but Sussex and Pewaukee had no say in it. We had to screw up industry just so the falls could make their downtown perfect not very smart.

WI-74 was decommissioned when WI-318 came about. And 318 is much more important than WI-74.

And I want WI-241 decommissioned because I don't see much purpose to state highways on major city streets.  Unless they aid navigation, why even have them?

So I would have all highways end at WI-100 in Milwaukee.  I would reroute US-151 in Madison to the freeways.  The only route that would survive in Green Bay is US-141, etc.  That doesn't mean that they would go without state funding.  Just no longer signed.

WI-318 is more important than WI-74? Are you kidding me WI-318 is like less than 2 miles long. It could be unsinged for that matter. I actually have been on the new WI-318 there really isn't much traffic on it at all.

WIDOT disagrees.

[MantyMadTown]

There is traffic that transits the Madison area between US 151 to the northeast and US 151 to the southwest and it is difficult to describe the 'best' routing (the interstate and the Beltline) to some of those drivers, who are unfamiliar with the area.  This is very similar to what the situation WRT US 41 through Milwaukee County was for travelers between Chicagoland and the Fox Valley (Appleton, Oshkosh, etc) before I-41 was marked.  For that reason, I would reroute US 151 to follow that all-freeway routing and give the current through town route a new number.

As for US 141, I'd decommission it south of the Abrams interchange (US 41 split north of metro Green Bay).

Mike

And while we're at it, decommission highway 29's routing along US 141 and give the section east of Green Bay a new number! I honestly think the routing of US 141 in Green Bay should become a state highway and WIS 29 should end at Monroe Ave.

[mgk920]

There is traffic that transits the Madison area between US 151 to the northeast and US 151 to the southwest and it is difficult to describe the 'best' routing (the interstate and the Beltline) to some of those drivers, who are unfamiliar with the area.  This is very similar to what the situation WRT US 41 through Milwaukee County was for travelers between Chicagoland and the Fox Valley (Appleton, Oshkosh, etc) before I-41 was marked.  For that reason, I would reroute US 151 to follow that all-freeway routing and give the current through town route a new number.

As for US 141, I'd decommission it south of the Abrams interchange (US 41 split north of metro Green Bay).

Mike

And while we're at it, decommission highway 29's routing along US 141 and give the section east of Green Bay a new number! I honestly think the routing of US 141 in Green Bay should become a state highway and WIS 29 should end at Monroe Ave.

I would end WI 29 at the I-41 Shawano Interchange, including a slight reroute of WI 29 there, turning the street over to the City of Green Bay and Village of Howard.  Interesting in that the freeway itself at that interchange is *not* WI 29, rather it is only WI 32.  Right now, WI 29 hops off of that freeway at Packerland Dr.

Mike

[triplemultiplex]

WI 24 doesn't need any number or letter.  Everyone just calls it Forest Home Avenue.

I'm going to simply express my disdain for strict mileage caps.  And the dumb way WisDOT is adhering to them by county or whatever.  It leaves us with situations where there are worthwhile state highways getting decomissioned in some areas while utterly useless or convoluted ones stick around in others.

I use WI 127 as the poster child for this.  It is a useless state highway that is not only redundant, but also a far less direct route between Portage and The Dells.  I'm flummoxed as to why this was ever made a state highway in the first place.  It persists while WI 175 gets pulled out of Fond du Lac and WI 74 bites the dust.  I must assume this is due to some overly sensitive political bullshit about trying not to appear like they are taking mileage from one area and giving it to another.

The solution is obvious: just put me in charge of the numbering and I'll do what I think is best for a useful system of numbered highways (working as much as I can with an existing system) and everyone just accept my decisions without whining.

[MNHighwayMan]

The solution is obvious: just put me in charge of the numbering and I'll do what I think is best for a useful system of numbered highways (working as much as I can with an existing system) and everyone just accept my decisions without whining.

Unlikely.